8 Passengers: Youtuber's Take Son's Bed and Refuse to Give Daughter Lunch

[Pleiades_06]

Has anyone seen this Daily Mail article? Please tell me it’s fiction. 
CW: CSA

Spoiler

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12493621/amp/Youtuber-mom-Ruby-Franke-appears-court-accuses-children-outrageous-behavior.html

 

[clueliss]

35 minutes ago, Gobsmacked said:

The neighbour reported that Russell said his sisters were  in the house. Did Russell mean another sister beside Eve or did he mean two sisters in His family home? 
Ruby apparently left ( in some reports) on a family emergency. What family? She has cut herself off from them all. I’m wondering if She was driving either Abbi or Julie back from Hilderbrands house to her own house. It’s not clear but I’m guessing Julie and Abbi were found in the Franke house. 

J & A were found at a family friend's house.  Not the Frankie's and not with their father.  

The emergency was.almost assuredly that Jodi called Ruby because Jodi saw, possibly via cameras that R had escaped.  Ruby therefore needed to take the 3 to 4 hours to return to Ivins.  

[Alisamer]

26 minutes ago, Pleiades_06 said:

Has anyone seen this Daily Mail article? Please tell me it’s fiction. 
CW: CSA

  Hide contents

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12493621/amp/Youtuber-mom-Ruby-Franke-appears-court-accuses-children-outrageous-behavior.html

 

It looks like so far only Daily Mail is reporting that, so until it's verified somewhere else (more reputable) I'd consider it "alleged" information.

That said, based on what I've seen from Ruby Franke, I wouldn't be surprised if she did say that (whether it was true or not). And if it is true it doesn't make her look good in any way, she alleges one of her children began watching porn at age 3. How does a 3-year-old get access to that? 

Also - Helpmeet Hat On - everyone please remember this rule:

Quote

No speculation on the victims/survivors of incest/molestation/rape/sexual assault.

I would say let's also avoid speculating on the alleged child (children?) who were the abusers, until concrete information is released. Ruby could be lying.

[Gobsmacked]

44 minutes ago, clueliss said:

J & A were found at a family friend's house.  Not the Frankie's and not with their father.  

The emergency was.almost assuredly that Jodi called Ruby because Jodi saw, possibly via cameras that R had escaped.  Ruby therefore needed to take the 3 to 4 hours to return to Ivins.  

Where was this reported? 

[Pammy]

The "alleged information" does begin to paint a different picture from the basic idea that emotionally abusive parents can become increasingly aggressive in their abuse, especially if they lack basic compassion as a human being.

However, it's not terribly unexpected, given the Duggar story -- of how kids in high-control abusive homes themselves have a strong potential to go to dark, sometimes sexual, places. At which point even an ordinary parent can become overwhelmed and make bad choices about what to do and who to trust... a bad parent who meets every challenge with more control, more punishment, and more deprivation is likely to go to a completely unhinged place. But who knows what's true any more?

I want to stop myself from speculating too far.

For myself, I question what definition these incredibly conservative people will be using for "sexual abuse" (and even how they define "pornography") It's possible that a kid can do things like slap their peers on the backside or kiss their peers without consent -- which is dysfunctional and needs to be stopped -- but shouldn't be described as 'sexually abusing dozens of victims'.

I have a mom friend who is raising a fairly disturbed little kid, including serious misconduct towards other children. She's getting them psych treatment and doing all the right things, but she has also asked questions like, "Is it ever reasonable to lock them in their room, so I can just have a shower?" -- and I don't know how to answer because I'm not a professional. But I always tell her to listen to the qualified professionals... not people who recommend high-control tactics.

[clueliss]

1 hour ago, Gobsmacked said:

Where was this reported? 

A lot of the things I've been watching. I have already shared in this thread. I am not going to relink everything I've listened to or watched at this point.

Jordan and McKay have two videos. I will tell you that one of them was done the night the arrest went down.

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Ruby has very little defense to what she did. Her only defense is one of two things:

1) Jodi made me do it

2) I was trying to protect my other children.

We have seen the second defense when it comes to rehoming adopted children. Remember the girl named Natalia that was adopted by the Barnett’s? And then she was abandoned and made to live alone in an apartment for years? Those assholes claimed she was an adult pretending to be a child and trying to kill them. They abandoned her to protect themselves and their kids from her harming them. This claim was also used in the 1990s when a couple sent a girl back overseas after she was adopted. They claimed she tried to kill her little brother. And that was their justification to give her back. The woman is an adult now and has spoken out and said she never tried to kill her little brother and hers adoptive parents just wanted rid of her because she gave them too much trouble. 
 

This is a common tactic in my opinion. Claiming you are protecting your other children and that’s why you abuse/neglect. 
 

It makes zero sense when you know she sent Chad to a horrible wilderness camp for troubled teens for 7 months for causing only minor trouble. If she really thought they were sexually abusing 20 kids, she would have sent that kid away too. I bet she will have no proof of this happening. 

[Pammy]

3 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Ruby has very little defense to what she did. Her only defense is one of two things:

1) Jodi made me do it

2) I was trying to protect my other children.

We have seen the second defense when it comes to rehoming adopted children. Remember the girl named Natalia that was adopted by the Barnett’s? And then she was abandoned and made to live alone in an apartment for years? Those assholes claimed she was an adult pretending to be a child and trying to kill them. They abandoned her to protect themselves and their kids from her harming them. This claim was also used in the 1990s when a couple sent a girl back overseas after she was adopted. They claimed she tried to kill her little brother. And that was their justification to give her back. The woman is an adult now and has spoken out and said she never tried to kill her little brother and hers adoptive parents just wanted rid of her because she gave them too much trouble. 
 

This is a common tactic in my opinion. Claiming you are protecting your other children and that’s why you abuse/neglect. 
 

It makes zero sense when you know she sent Chad to a horrible wilderness camp for troubled teens for 7 months for causing only minor trouble. If she really thought they were sexually abusing 20 kids, she would have sent that kid away too. I bet she will have no proof of this happening. 

I agree. There's literally no reason to believe she is telling the truth at all. (If the "alleged information" that she made these claims is something that really happened at all.)

(Though we also have no reason to believe that Chad was (a) sent away to wilderness camp, or ( b ) forbidden to share a bedroom with his young brother -- for the reasons that were originally stated.)

This woman is clearly a liar, and she is completely ready to deceive the public with a reasonable amount of skill. Nothing she says, or has ever said, should be taken at face value.

(Did you watch the video above about the youngest two children being so 'selfish' that they were given no Christmas presents? These were the two children who were co-living with Jodi while they were being abused before they were rescued, including the boy who escaped and asked for the police. I'm questioning what exactly is 'selfishness' in this bizarre vocabulary? What could that possibly mean?)

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, Alisamer said:

based on what I've seen from Ruby Franke, I wouldn't be surprised if she did say that (whether it was true or not).

Rubyʻs allegations seemed like a form of DARVO to me. Even if there is any truth to what she said in court, it does not exonerate her, Jodi OR Kevin.

[JermajestyDuggar]

How could I forget Kate Gosslin! She just did the same damn thing! Blaming Collin for why she locked him away, didn’t visit him, and refused to tell Jon where he was. She said she did it for his protection and for the other kids. 
 

It’s such a common tactic. It just makes me sick when people blame the victims of their abuse. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I need to add something else. People like Ruby and Kate Gosslin have plenty of resources (ie money) which means plenty of choices when it comes to keeping your children safe and getting them the help they need. When people live in poverty and have a child in the home that is causing harm to others, you have very few choices. But Kate and Ruby have plenty of options in getting their children help and keeping others safe. So the fact that they both made horrible choices means they had all these options and still chose to abandon and abuse. 

[hoipolloi]

Local news report on the hearing. The judge denied bail for both Ruby & Jodi. 

Quote

 

Rube Franke, the YouTube mom and creator of 8 Passengers family lifestyle vlog, who is accused of felony child abuse, will be held without bail, a judge ruled Friday.

Her business partner, Jodi Hildebrandt, who was arrested in the same case, is also being held without bail...

The hearing eventually began, though the broadcast cut in and out, likely due to the sheer number of viewers attempting to watch, and many portions of the proceedings were inaudible. Some details may not be available until the courtroom pool video and/or transcripts are distributed to the media.

Franke, it turned out, was in attendance after all, appearing via webcam, either from, or having come directly from, the medical block at the correctional facility.

The judge ordered that Franke will be held without bail. The question of whether she'd be released on her own recognisance surfaced earlier in the week when a court assessment was filed that recommended she be released and monitored pending trial.

Her next hearing is set for Sept. 21.

 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I hope they sit in jail a long time. 

[CTRLZero]

I’ve been watching the Jordan and McKay YouTube coverage of 8 Passengers.  I also watched the Fundie Friday version with Jordan and McKay, which was quite good.  Also, John Dehlin of Mormon Stories interviews Jodi’s niece, who was abused by Jodi Hildebrandt and tried to report her mistreatment back in 2012.  The detectives are reopening her case for further investigation.  It’s a long interview, but very worth watching from beginning to end.

Thanks to everyone above who is providing information sources.  For some time now I have been listening to podcasts on Mormon history and culture (who knows why I’m so intrigued 🤷‍♀️), so this sad case is interesting to me.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, CTRLZero said:

I’ve been watching the Jordan and McKay YouTube coverage of 8 Passengers.  I also watched the Fundie Friday version with Jordan and McKay, which was quite good.  Also, John Dehlin of Mormon Stories interviews Jodi’s niece, who was abused by Jodi Hildebrandt and tried to report her mistreatment back in 2012.  The detectives are reopening her case for further investigation.  It’s a long interview, but very worth watching from beginning to end.

Thanks to everyone above who is providing information sources.  For some time now I have been listening to podcasts on Mormon history and culture (who knows why I’m so intrigued 🤷‍♀️), so this sad case is interesting to me.  

I think Mormon history and culture are interesting to a lot of Americans. And it makes sense. it’s a rich religious organization. Plus it’s pretty big for a religion that only started in the mid 1800s. But the biggest draw has to be the fact that it’s the largest American born religion in the US. It makes sense that it interests do many people. 

[hoipolloi]

LDS beliefs play significant role in this case and in the Vallow-Daybell murders. The church will try to say that these people are fringe, they donʻt represent the church, they did it wrong, etc., but the fact is that LDS theology & practice are at the bottom of what happened in both cases. Arguably, in both instances, things would not have gotten to be so bad without the LDS church.

On the Vallow-Daybell thread, I mentioned just finishing the book When the Moon Turns to Blood, which is a deep dive into the background to the murders & mayhem. The author makes a compelling case that much of what went down would not have happened without Mormonism, fringe or not. I used to think that the principal criminals -- Lori Vallow & Chad Daybell -- were just cynical grifters but now think that they actually believe their own crazy which made them all the more dangerous to others, especially the family members who were murdered. 

[clueliss]

Listening to the full (I think) 912 call.  You can hear RF relaying information.  Also he did not know where his dad was (speculation from me:  Ruby/Jodi probably forced him away and kept him away from his kids.  Does not make him “guilt free” in any of these.)  

 

Spoiler

 

 

[FluffySnowball]

1 hour ago, clueliss said:

Listening to the full (I think) 912 call.  You can hear RF relaying information.  Also he did not know where his dad was (speculation from me:  Ruby/Jodi probably forced him away and kept him away from his kids.  Does not make him “guilt free” in any of these.)  

 

  Hide contents

 

 

This is so heartbreaking, the poor poor kids. 

Question to anyone knowledgeable about the legal aspects of felony child abuse charges. How likely is it that Ruby will spend some time in jail? I really hope she won’t be let go with a slap on the wrist, so to speak. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Jodi’s niece talked about how she was forced to live with Jodi when she was a teen in order to “fix” her. Even though she was just a depressed teenager. She really wasn’t acting out. She was just depressed and not acting exactly like her parents wanted. So she went to live with Jodi where she withheld food from her, put duct tape on her, locked up in a room, isolated her, and psychologically tortured her for months. If anyone at church went to the bishop and expressed worry because the niece was emancipated and looked very depressed, Jodi then made her apologize to those people for manipulating them to feel sorry for her. She said that’s what Jodi always did no matter what. Everyone else was always wrong and Jodi was always right. Everyone else was always manipulating and lying and Jodi was always telling the truth. Even when her niece caught her in lies. She said Jodi’s daughter escaped from Jodi when she was 18 and had cut her off. Because Jodi’s daughter knows she can’t even have slim contact with Jodi. Because of her manipulation, she knows Jodi can harm even when just barely communicating. Jodi also divorced her husband only 18 months after they were married while she was pregnant with her second. She then completely assassinated his character in court so he go no parental rights. She accused him of so many things that never happened. She always had higher ups in the mormon church vouching for her. The vast majority of her clients were sent by church bishops. And if they couldn’t pay, the church would. The church paid Jodi tons of money over the years. And in return, she would break client privilege and tell the church everything they wanted to know. Which was often porn addiction. When really there was no porn addiction at all. 

[Gobsmacked]

1 hour ago, FluffySnowball said:

This is so heartbreaking, the poor poor kids. 

Question to anyone knowledgeable about the legal aspects of felony child abuse charges. How likely is it that Ruby will spend some time in jail? I really hope she won’t be let go with a slap on the wrist, so to speak. 

After hearing what Ruby accused the kids of in court, listening to her cousin and Jodie’s niece being interviewed on the ex- Morman channels - both women need to be locked up away from society in Separate prisons for a long long time. Kevin in not totally innocent either. I don’t think he should gain custody. He appears from the 8 passenger videos to have some strange ideas too. 

[Howl]

 

On 9/8/2023 at 11:10 AM, Alisamer said:

And if it is true it doesn't make her look good in any way, she alleges one of her children began watching porn at age 3. How does a 3-year-old get access to that? 

On 9/10/2023 at 9:42 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Jodi’s niece talked about how she was forced to live with Jodi when she was a teen in order to “fix” her.

 

@JermajestyDuggar, I think this is the interview you watched. 

 This interview (KUTV 2 News Salt Lake City) with Jodi's niece Jessi will demystify everything. Jessi shares the abuse and psychological manipulation (torture, really) that  she endured while being forced to live with Jodi as a teen.  The reporter is a skilled interviewer and asks brief, excellent questions and never interrupts Jessi.  About 20 minutes long.  Do I think Jessi is 100% credible? Yes.   

Ruby's crazy implication that her child watched porn at age 3? Yup, that's directly from Jodi. 

Do I now think the dad should be anywhere near those kids? Nope, because it seems  the dad was also under the influence of Jodi's beliefs. 

Do I think Jodi is a sociopath or similar? Absolutely. 

Could be triggering for some. 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Howl

[JermajestyDuggar]

It seems like the aunts are supportive. I would hope that the kids can live with one of the aunts.

[Howl]

1 minute ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It seems like the aunts are supportive. I would hope that the kids can live with one of the aunts.

Ruby's sisters?  Yes, they do seem supportive and have been trying to call out the crazy for years. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, Howl said:

Ruby's sisters?  Yes, they do seem supportive and have been trying to call out the crazy for years. 

Yeah, I think Shari is close with them now.

[clueliss]

Mormon Stories podcast has an extended interview with Jessi.  (Over 3 hours).  Sorry,  I don't have the link handy at the moment.