"Devout Christian" vegan parents charged with manslaughter when baby died of malnutrition

[Aine]

https://people.com/crime/vegan-parents-charged-death-toddler-malnutrition/

I'm not sure 'vegan' is the correct description of these parents. They claim that their family only eats raw fruit and vegetables and there is no mention of any grains, nuts, roots etc in any article I've seen. The probably cause statement says, "She told police that her children’s diets consist mainly of mangoes, rambutans, bananas and avocados, and the family only eats fruits and vegetables." Their 18 month old son died from complications of malnutrition and when medical personnel arrived, they also found their 3 and 5 yr old children "appeared pale and yellowish, and one had blackened teeth that required surgery to repair dental decay." The mother, Sheila O'Leary had a daughter from a previous relationship who appeared in better health but she has visitation with her father as well away from this mess and I guess he feeds her. Poor kiddos.

She claims she was only breastfeeding in the week prior because her 18-month-old son was teething so he wouldn't eat ? In my experience with kids, they are on a spectrum of misery when teething but event the most severe cases I've seen, when bub spikes a low-grade fever and are just in pain, they might eat less because they are feeling rotten but not so little that they become malnourished in a week! And if she was truly breastfeeding him as much as she says, to my knowledge that wouldn't be enough sustenance for an 18 month old to be super energetic but it should be enough to keep him from being malnourished. Although, if she's only eating raw foods and veggies, her breastmilk is probably lacking a lot of the nutrients and proteins he needs too. Can someone with more breast-feeding and nutrition knowledge expand on this?

It doesn't say they are 'fundie' and I'll keep looking for more details but most articles do say they are "devout Christians". I bet they homeschool as well and/or are fairly isolated for no one to notice the signs of malnutrition in the children.

I wish people would pick just one thing to be extremist about! Or none but at the least, one. Even though I know the psychology behind any extremism often applies to nearly all of them.

 

[NoseyNellie]

Neglect pure and simple.. and I think it is a mockery to call the death *accidental*

There are plenty of cases of educated and aware parents who practice a very hands off approach with homebirthing, minimal medical interventions, clean or plant based eating.. but this is not one of those families...

There is nothing OK with blackened and decaying teeth in 3/5 year old children.  Saying the baby was fighting an illness for 6 months.. Neglect if you did not seek medical treatment/diagnosis.  

Baby struggled to eat and had shallow breathing... so you GO TO BED????  

All 3 living children should be removed and put into protective care.  Both parents charged with neglect and involuntary manslaughter... malnutrition and dehydration are not things that happen overnight....

I am a former CPS worker- this story stinks to high heaven.. I hope that oldest child finds herself in bio dads permanent custody faster than I can type those words!  

[Marmion]

2 hours ago, Aine said:

. I bet they homeschool as well and/or are fairly isolated for no one to notice the signs of malnutrition in the children

You would win that bet .   

Quote

The kids were also allegedly home schooled and all slept together in the family’s living room. 

 

https://www.oxygen.com/crime-news/ryan-sheila-oleary-charged-after-son-dies-of-malnutrition   ,  

Quote

Sheila O'Leary said that she home-schools the children, but police determined they were not actively enrolled in a home-school program, according to the probable cause statement. 

 https://www.news-press.com/story/news/crime/2019/11/12/malnourished-toddler-weighed-17-lbs-time-death-family-vegan-sheila-oleary-ryan-oleary-cape-coral/2577087001/   

Quote

Sheila O'Leary's attorney said one of the investigating officers described the case as a "tough one." Musca added that the alleged malnutrition of the other children was false, claiming the entire family is "small in stature" but healthy. He said O'Leary was a "nurturing parent and a devout Christian."

https://www.phillyvoice.com/vegan-parents-charged-malnourished-son-cape-corals-florida-investigation/  

[JermajestyDuggar]

The lawyer says they are devout Christians, the boy was born at home, and he has never seen a doctor. So yeah, they are fundie. 

[keepercjr]

4 hours ago, Aine said:

And if she was truly breastfeeding him as much as she says, to my knowledge that wouldn't be enough sustenance for an 18 month old to be super energetic but it should be enough to keep him from being malnourished. Although, if she's only eating raw foods and veggies, her breastmilk is probably lacking a lot of the nutrients and proteins he needs too. Can someone with more breast-feeding and nutrition knowledge expand on this?

Speaking here only from a breastfeeding perspective.   A normal healthy 18 month old and a normal healthy mom can have breast milk be the bulk of a diet at that age.  So if she was nursing as much as she claims he shouldn't have had any hint of malnutrition. At 18 months old my kids (I have 3) probably had their diet consist of 75% nursing still.  And during times of illness, it was 100% breast milk when they didn't feel like eating anything else.  Of course we don't know how healthy her milk was but nature finds a way so even though she was also probably malnourished, her milk should have theoretically been enough to at least sustain him. If she was barely nursing him to begin with, then her production would not have been enough but he still shouldn't have died.  And 17 lbs, while small, is not *that* small.  My kids, at 18 months, weighed probably only a pound or 2 more.  There is more to this story. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, keepercjr said:

Speaking here only from a breastfeeding perspective.   A normal healthy 18 month old and a normal healthy mom can have breast milk be the bulk of a diet at that age.  So if she was nursing as much as she claims he shouldn't have had any hint of malnutrition. At 18 months old my kids (I have 3) probably had their diet consist of 75% nursing still.  And during times of illness, it was 100% breast milk when they didn't feel like eating anything else.  Of course we don't know how healthy her milk was but nature finds a way so even though she was also probably malnourished, her milk should have theoretically been enough to at least sustain him. If she was barely nursing him to begin with, then her production would not have been enough but he still shouldn't have died.  And 17 lbs, while small, is not *that* small.  My kids, at 18 months, weighed probably only a pound or 2 more.  There is more to this story. 

I wouldn’t be surprised if he had some sort of ongoing illness like an infection that they never bothered to treat. And it just got worse and worse until he just couldn’t fight it anymore. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by JermajestyDuggar

[JMO]

2 hours ago, keepercjr said:

  And 17 lbs, while small, is not *that* small.  My kids, at 18 months, weighed probably only a pound or 2 more.  There is more to this story. 

That's not actually true.  According to the WHO charts 2nd percentile in weight for an 18 month old boy is 8.75 kg which is also 19.25 lbs.  So he was way below the growth curve for his age.  In fact according to the WHO charts 7.74 kg (17lbs) is considered 2nd percentile for a 12 months old boy.  He was dramatically underweight.   And toddlers should be getting most of their nutrition from solids at that age.  They can still nurse frequently but solids foods should be the most of their nutrition.  This is terrible neglect.  Those poor children.  

Edited November 21, 2019 by JMO

[mango_fandango]

Yeah, that doesn’t sound like veganism to me, more like fruitarianism. 
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruitarianism

[AmazonGrace]

It sounds like they're bananas.

[Marmion]

13 hours ago, mango_fandango said:

Yeah, that doesn’t sound like veganism to me, more like fruitarianism. 
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruitarianism

Yes , this is way more restrictive than the standard vegan diet .  But not surprisingly , the media is trying to sensationalize this story in order to disparage veganism , and perhaps vegetarianism more generally . I was wondering just what sort of sect / cult this couple is part of .  The immediate guess would be Seventh Day Adventist  . However , as they are more specifically fruitarian , perhaps this might be even more likely .  https://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,91878  

[apandaaries]

18 hours ago, mango_fandango said:

Yeah, that doesn’t sound like veganism to me, more like fruitarianism. 
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruitarianism

I know some people who attempted a “raw foods” diet for awhile. Since they claim to also eat vegetables, it sounds like they were likely raw foodists.

[Coconut Flan]

I was put on a raw food diet while awaiting gall bladder surgery and it sounds very, very similar.  I was losing three to four pounds a week.  

[Alcyone]

I had to look up rambutan because I've never even heard of it. The first health benefit of rambutan is listed as weight loss! In addition, the seeds have narcotic properties when eaten raw. Why feed this exotic fruit to small children as a staple of their diet?

This case is tragic and baffling. The parents are said to be normal weight. The neighbors said there were no red flags and though this article is a bit confusing, it seems to indicate that the children looked healthy enough last year. Yet, the mother already had her oldest child temporarily removed for malnutrition and seemingly did nothing to educate herself on children's nutritional needs. Also, one of the preschooler's teeth were rotting so badly she needed dental surgery. Did the parents think this would just correct itself?!  https://www.news-press.com/story/news/crime/2019/11/08/there-were-no-red-flags-neighbors-cape-coral-couple-accused-starving-their-child-death-say/2530726001/

[keepercjr]

On 11/20/2019 at 8:11 PM, JMO said:

That's not actually true.  According to the WHO charts 2nd percentile in weight for an 18 month old boy is 8.75 kg which is also 19.25 lbs.  So he was way below the growth curve for his age.  In fact according to the WHO charts 7.74 kg (17lbs) is considered 2nd percentile for a 12 months old boy.  He was dramatically underweight.   And toddlers should be getting most of their nutrition from solids at that age.  They can still nurse frequently but solids foods should be the most of their nutrition.  This is terrible neglect.  Those poor children.  

I don't disagree with the charts but all my kids (1 boy, 2 girls) were exactly 17 lbs at 12 months old (seriously) and all were perfectly healthy and getting regular checkups.  It would really depend on the baby's trajectory.  My babies are small but proportional and now my 14 year old is taller than me.  For them, 17 lbs at 12 months was not underweight, malnutrition or neglect.  I doubt they hit 20 lbs till after 18 months (I don't remember specifically).  And yes, nursing was still the bulk of their diet, along with the option to eat everything we were eating.  Some days they ate more, some days they ate less.  For most 18 month olds, they aren't nursing as much.  But some are and it isn't unhealthy. 

This is not a defense of her.  The children needed to be removed and her baby should not have died.  I am sure there was extreme medical neglect along with whatever diet she was forcing on them.  And for that baby 17 lbs may ave been dramatically under weight for him.  This whole story is just awful.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

5 hours ago, keepercjr said:

don't disagree with the charts but all my kids (1 boy, 2 girls) were exactly 17 lbs at 12 months old (seriously) and all were perfectly healthy and getting regular checkups.

Yeah, but that kid was 18 months old not 12, he was 6 months behind, one third of his life.

[FilleMondaine]

Man, this topic hit home. I work in a nursing home, and I just discovered last week that one of my residents was starved as a small child...and has needed care ever since. Those abusers belong in jail, and those children belong in one big long hug (with wholesome food whenever appropriate)

[mango_fandango]

22 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

It sounds like they're bananas.

 

Some people are just awful and should not have kids.

[AmazonGrace]

According to this chart (I cut the relevant portions), if he was 17 lbs he was about the size of an average 6 months old.  I marked his weight in yellow and he was way, way, WAY below the charts. Healthy children that grow on the third percentile are not really relevant here. We are not talking about  slow growth and tiny child here, we are talking about extremely seriously underweight. 

Spoiler

   

 

https://www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/data/set2clinical/cj41l067.pdf

 

[Rebelwife]

On 11/20/2019 at 8:57 PM, keepercjr said:

  And 17 lbs, while small, is not *that* small.  My kids, at 18 months, weighed probably only a pound or 2 more.  There is more to this story. 

Yeah, there's a ton of fuckery to this story but not the weight.  My oldest daughter weighed 17 lbs. at her 1 year check up and I don't think she hit 30 lbs. until she was about 3 years old and trust me, she ate like a lumberjack. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

4 hours ago, Rebelwife said:

Yeah, there's a ton of fuckery to this story but not the weight.  My oldest daughter weighed 17 lbs. at her 1 year check up and I don't think she hit 30 lbs. until she was about 3 years old and trust me, she ate like a lumberjack. 

How can it be fine that a 18 months old child weighed like a tiny 12 months old child 6 months younger than him?

[Four is Enough]

I thought it was normal for babies to double their birth weight by age one?

So I'd expect 17 pounds to be "ok" at 12 months, but at 18 months, that sounds LOW.

[JermajestyDuggar]

This link says you should expect your baby to double his weight around 5 months and triple it by a year. 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/infant-and-toddler-health/expert-answers/infant-growth/faq-20058037

[Giraffe]

A friend of mine had a really small baby who remained a small toddler. She was told by the baby’s pediatrician that it wasn’t where on the chart they land, it’s that they’re consistently in the same place. Her son is something like the 5th percentile, but because he’s consistently in the 5th percentile it’s not (automatically) alarming. For example, the problem would be if he were in the 90th percentile at 6 months and then was in the 5th percentile at one year. 

Edited November 24, 2019 by Giraffe
Riffle

[hamish]

This whole story makes me sick and sad.

[Glasgowghirl]

This is abuse and no child regardless of what ever diet you have them on should die from malnutrition and suffer. Most vegan's and vegetarian's make sure their children if following the same diet as their parents get all their nutrition they need and will add supplements if needed. I think these monsters used diet to control the children.