Jump to content
  • Sky
  • Blueberry
  • Slate
  • Blackcurrant
  • Watermelon
  • Strawberry
  • Orange
  • Banana
  • Apple
  • Emerald
  • Chocolate
  • Charcoal
Coconut Flan

Counting On Season 8/9/10 2: How low will they go? (CW: Miscarriage)

Recommended Posts

wandering woman

The upcoming season will be about babies and weddings, but I want to know the following information. Of course none of this will be on the show, but here goes:

Where does everyone live, and what do they do for jobs? My guess is that the married couples in Arkansas live in Jim Bob owned houses and work in his businesses. I wonder if Jessa and Ben will move out of that small house before they have a third kid. It only has two small bedrooms. 

John David has probably lived on his own for a while, so he probably moved Abbie into his house.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
wendy-sparkles
3 hours ago, wandering woman said:

Where does everyone live, and what do they do for jobs? My guess is that the married couples in Arkansas live in Jim Bob owned houses and work in his businesses. I wonder if Jessa and Ben will move out of that small house before they have a third kid. It only has two small bedrooms. 

John David has probably lived on his own for a while, so he probably moved Abbie into his house.

I looked these up a little while ago. Josiah and Lauren's properties are iirc a house with a lot beside it, and an empty lot. My guess is they bought and did up the house while living in the huge house Jim Bob gave them, and the house we see on social media now is the one they own. The empty lot might be for storing and selling cars, which we've seen Jim Bob use empty lots for. I think Joseph and Kendra also had a piece of land listed but I might be remembering wrong (there are two whole pages of duggar properties just in one county). It looks like Jason is probably flipping houses for work.

IMG_20190212_053819.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Adrienne83
On 2/2/2019 at 12:18 PM, Markie said:

Okay, here’s what I’d like clarified in the upcoming season: the jobs and places where the adult Duggars live. 

As far as I know-

Josh - runs one of the Duggar used car lots   Anna - SHM and Homeschooling teacher. Do they own their own house or live in one of JimBob’s? Are they in the same town or just nearby?

Jana - SHD. Helps parents and siblings. Lives at TTH.

John - pilot, isn’t he also some kind of deputy?  Abbie - has Nursing diploma. Probably SHW. No idea where they are living, but close to TTH

Jill - SHM - homeschooling teacher.  Derek - Uni student (Law).  Rental house. Not sure where. 

Jessa - SHM.  Ben - Uni student (Bible).  Small house that Josh and Anna lived in. Was owned by Grandma Mary. How far from TTH

Jinger - SHM.  Jeremy - pastor, Divinity Student. Own their house in Laredo, TX. 

Joseph - no idea what he does. Some Duggar business?  Kendra - SHM.  They live on the Duggar compound in a log cabin that belonged to his grandparents. 

Josiah - no idea what he does.  Did he ever get any credits from College Minus?  Lauren - SHW.  They live in a rental apartment. Not sure which town.

Joy - SHM.  Austin - contractor and house flipper. They were living in a trailer. Not sure where they are now. 

Jeremiah - no idea what he does. College? Trade? TTH

Jedediah - no idea what he does. College? Trade? TTH

Jason - no idea what he does. College? Trade?  TTH 

James - might have graduated or is a senior at the school of the dining room table. No idea if he has post secondary school plans. TTH

Justin, Jackson - high school students. TTH

Johanna, Jennifer, Tyler, Jordyn, Josie - elementary students. TTH

Joseph is a realtor. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Buzzard

Season 9, Episode 1 “Love is in the Air”

Dearest Jingerites, it is with great sadness that I bring you tonight’s recap of Counting Bullshit.  May Rufus bless us with a short season and much snark.

Jessa and Jana give us a recap  of the past year.  Weddings, babies… Jana loved “helping” out on projects.  Jessa and Bin did whatever,  Jabbie have “surprises” in store (in a hospital looking setting).  Jinger had a baby and life isn’t slowing down.

LAREDO

Jinger is 37 weeks.  They have a framed 3d pic of the ultrasound and a shit ton of candles burning in the background.  Jeremy suggests that he make spicy Indian food to encourage labor. 

Jinger TH – Spicy food has been said to help things get moving along. 

Jeremy jokes that he needs “minced ginger” and tries to make jinger come over.  He’s using 2 serrano peppers in his chicken Masala.

Jinger TH – I’m hoping to go into labor early so I can have a natural birth unlike my sisters. 
My sisters have had complications and had to be transported.  With that in mind I want to be in a hospital and I decided to change from the birth center to the hospital, it’s the wisest choice at this point.

Jeremy cooks and they both cough from the peppers.  Jinger is concerned she’s going to wind up at the hospital for respiratory distress from the peppers and not labor.

Shots of the crew coughing.  Jinger has to open the door and go outside.

Producers give J’kids hot sauce.  I guess they needed to add some filler for their filler that wasn’t flashbacks.  This lasts for about 4 minutes.

Jer/Jed are in the “hot sauce” challenge but Jana is not…

Back to Laredo – they eat.  Jeremy gets hiccups and they discuss how spicy it is (more candles on the table). 

Jeremy reminds us that we’re trying to kick start labor.  He rubs Jinger’s belly.  It didn’t work

TTH

JD explains that he’s been courting Abbie.  They met at a church his parents were speaking at and it was like they knew each other forever.  It’s a “match made in heaven.”  His family was “blown away” in May, 2018 when they introduced as “girlfriend.”

Jana – I’m confident they’ll marry.  She’s perfect.

Abbie – It’s wonderful, he comes to see every weekend.  He’s very steady, nothing rattles him.  He likes to have fun.

ALERT has aviation, apparently.

Alertaviation.thumb.jpg.57e7c4fd449ab1749d268efd8733f1b4.jpg

JD – The more I get to know her, the more I love her.

TH – He’s ready to pop the question.  He’s calling “lori” in Texas and is a photographer who helps set up surprise proposals and does a session.

The IPhone says “lori blythe” – considering he’s introducing himself off that her full name is in the phone… He explains he’s a pilot and flying into Fredericksburg and they’ll do it there because she loves to fly with him. 

TH – He’s taking Jana to Oklahoma and getting Maggie, pick Abbie up and go to TX and propose.

COMMERCIAL

LAREDO

Jinger’s House

More shots of the ultrasound.  We see a blackboard that the baby is the size of a pumpkin.  The sisters are coming to do the nursery (Jessa, Jana, and Laura).  They are taking the bed out of one of the guest bedrooms.  Michelle, Jana, Laura, and Jeremy’s parents will be there for the birth. She needs the support and really wants her mom because she’s been through this “countless” times (actually, there used to be an exact number on a show a while ago…) and will help her to not be so stressed.

They start taking down Jeremy’s soccer jerseys (framed) and putting them in the garage.  He wasn’t prepared for them to go down.  It was his “nightmare” and had flashbacks of his books going in the closet.  Jeremy takes apart a bed.   He explains the books were manageable because of Jinger, now it’s OK because of a baby.

Jana TH – He’s getting a baby, that’s more precious than jerseys.

Jeremy leaves for church (in shorts).

They start to put together the crib.  Jinger has no “vision” and is leaving it to the girls.  Jessa came up with the southwestern theme because it has “Laredo like vibes.”

Jinger tells them that she had a dream that she was in labor.  In her dream she thought that it was easier than expected.

Jessa – My first labor was 24 hours of moaning and groaning. It was terrible. 

Joy – It was a different pain than I had experienced but it was manageable.  Towards the end it got pretty bad.

Kendra – it was worse than I anticipated but I think it also encouraged me that this pain was getting me somewhere.  We were making progress.

Jessa – when the baby arrives it’s worth it.  Just keep that in your mind.

They finish the crib and the frame.  They’re putting it together.  Jinger thinks it will make it seem real and she’s coming so soon.

Jeremy returns (still in shorts) and says it looks “fantastic.”  I guess no one told Jessa about not putting pillows in a crib, and what’s up with the fox?  There is a NOTICIBLE lack of crosses, bible verses, or anything that is duggarly.

What was Jeremy doing “at the church” dressed like he was going to play soccer?  Where is BIN?

nursery.thumb.jpg.d3caf65077c216045b7e9f3fd5c3a1f7.jpg

TH – With every step it’s getting more and more real and it sets in. Having a nursery, there’s a room designated for our baby, makes it that much more real.

Bin appears (also in shorts).

COMMERCIAL

OKLAHOMA

JD lands.  He’s going to propose today after picking her up and flying to Texas.  They’ll go to dinner and then propose in the hangar.  He files a flight plan with Jana, his “wingwoman.” (Does he know what that means???)

They talk about how to hide the ring in his pocket.  Abbie doesn’t have a clue, they think he’s in Arkansas.  Jinger calls Jana (there’s a camera conveniently at both ends of the call).  They’re driving to San Antonio to go to the birth center for a checkup.  Jana thinks she COULD go into labor and she’s glad they’re going to Texas because it’s “closer” to San Antonio.  (Google says its 1 hour and 14 minutes away).

BURNETT HOUSE

Abbie and Maggie and Corina wash fruit to make peach salsa.  They discuss how John is romantic and buys her flowers and paints her nails. 

JD pulls up and gets out of the car.  He just walks into the house and side hugs her.  He says “surprise I’m here to rescue you.”  (It’s kinda creepy/stalkerish even when you know it was staged)

He tells her to pack her bags.  She is wearing a different dress in the two scenes…  Her sister carries another dress in a garment bag.

They get to the airport and buckle in.

In Fredericksburg they set up for the proposal.  The photographer gives a little commercial for herself and explains that they’re setting up.

proposal.thumb.jpg.7c840d9fa0b51bbae83e949474730bca.jpg

Most guys just know they want to do something special and they need HELP.  They make a heart in roses on the floor in the hangar with vintage places.  This moment is a “gift” to her.

COMMERCIAL

San Antonio (birth center)

Midwife comes in and they side hug.  The plan is to stay until she’s born.  Jinger is having stronger Braxton-hicks contractions (explains what they are).  Baby is active and they’ve talked at length at keeping the baby small and closer to due date.  They’ve been doing “things on their own.”  Jinger says she’s been walking, squats, eating herbs… “you name it, I’ve tried it.”

Jeremy feels the head “it’s just crazy to think I’ll be holding her in my arms soon.”

They listen to the heartbeat and they determine that she’s ready to go.  She’s going to get lunch, have more herbs, and walk.

In the morning they’ll go to the hospital for an induction if the herbs don’t work.

FREDERICKBERG

Jana and Maggie are with them.  In the air they didn’t get any updates on the “setup” but he’s confident it will be ready when they touchdown.

They land and walk towards the hotel/museum.  They take pics in front of old planes.

JD explains their courtship standards: They have “some contact” like hugs and arms around each other.  Where they are in “this stage of life” being 10 years older than his siblings they’re more mature in “some areas.” 

Abbie explains the guidelines they allow in relation to how much they touch. The goal being honoring god and not having regrets.

No kissing, of course.

They head into the Hangar Hotel for lunch.  They are the only ones in the restaurant.  They discuss when Jinger’s baby will be born.  Jana texts Jinger and they hope she’ll hold off.

JD talks with his mouth full. Its gross.

They head to see the airplanes.

Abbie calls it “supper.” (I thought it was lunch).

They head into the hangar and he blathers about how life has been wonderful since 5/6.  She sees the heart on the ground and says “I wanted to know if you wanted to keep flying with me.”  He reads his script (I mean, proposal).   He looks like a hot mess and reads it like this is the first time he’s read it at all.

hotmess.thumb.jpg.2a95faa95d778b8412955677b307c26e.jpg

He says “do you have anything going for the next say, rest of your life?”  She says “nothing set in stone.”  “If you don’t have any big plans I’d love for you to spend the rest of your life with me.”  He asks her to marry him, with the ring upside down.

ringupstide.thumb.jpg.8741635bc2752b1ab491c21e2053968c.jpg

She says yes.  He realizes it’s upside down.  He puts it on her finger.  They hug. She gets awfully close to touching his butt.

She notices the sign and says “I can’t believe this is happening to me.”  He says “it’s already happened.”

They take pictures.  Jana points out that she didn’t say “yes” she said “I’d be honored to marry you.”

They have a photoshoot.

Cheesy music plays as they take pictures

pictures.thumb.jpg.75cef67998b4b4471a20cec32c0864d6.jpg

JD says how perfect it all was

Producer asks what the plan is.  They respond to get married SOON.

SAN ANTONIO

Jin/Jer drive to the hospital with Michelle.  The midwife checked them at the hotel and they recommended that she go to the hospital for an induction.  Jinger was so excited that its time – reality hits you and you’re so excited and nervous.  Jinger shows off her hospital bracelet.

Jeremy says he’s anxious for himself because Jinger is strong.

YAWN

COMING UP THIS SEASON - WARNING - COMING UP IN SPOILER DUE TO THESE ASSHATS TEASING A MISCARRIAGE. 

Spoiler

Jessa et al head to the hospital to bother jinger.

Jeremy prays

Felicity is born

Lauren and Josiah Announce (well, this won’t be good per today’s news)

Duggars make cake and it’s bad

Lauren cries (alone) – now we know why

Jana is coordinating J’abbie’s wedding

Jabbie get married – he kisses her hands

BOOB makes an announcement that surprises everyone (My money is still on adopting Tyler)

 

  • Upvote 10
  • Rufus Bless 7
  • Haha 1
  • I Agree 1
  • Thank You 31
  • Love 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Happy
Carm_88

Thanks @Buzzard! May Rufus bless you. 

Also, Jeremy is a tool! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sixcatatty
8 hours ago, HermioneSparrow said:

I was reading these love stories of you all and feeling better (?) Lol I've been with my boyfriend for 6 months and even though we're not engaged (yet), we've talked about marriage... Maybe because we're in a long distance relationship but I honestly think this is gonna go fast and we'll be married next year hopefully. When you know, you know.

From first real conversation to engagement was about six weeks. The marriage took a bit longer (3.5 years). We were married 35 years this past December and have known each other 39 years last month.

My faith tradition is fallen-away Catholic/Presbyterian (I married a Presbyterian preacher's kid). I've said quite often that I don't know what I did to have the blessing of my husband sharing my life, but I am eternally thankful we're on this road together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tired
HermioneSparrow
1 hour ago, sixcatatty said:

From first real conversation to engagement was about six weeks. The marriage took a bit longer (3.5 years). We were married 35 years this past December and have known each other 39 years last month.

My faith tradition is fallen-away Catholic/Presbyterian (I married a Presbyterian preacher's kid). I've said quite often that I don't know what I did to have the blessing of my husband sharing my life, but I am eternally thankful we're on this road together.

That is so cute, lol. Like I said, when you know... you know! Sometimes life (and LOVE) hits you like a ton of bricks and I feel that way. Surprised but quite happy. Congrats on your great marriage :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
VeryNikeSeamstress

Wait a sec. I thought Counting On was supposed to be about the next generation of Duggars, why is Jim Boob making an announcement?

More importantly, what is a creep who covered up sexual abuse doing on TV?!

Edited by VeryNikeSeamstress

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
VBOY9977

Maybe the announcement JB made is Jessa’s pregnancy. I noticed that the clothes they’re wearing on that scene are the same from a picture of the family that was published, in which Jessa and Ben have their pregnancy announcement picture clothes. (I know I pay way too much attention to clothes, don’t @ me 😂)

But idk why JB would be the one announcing it though

 

pictures referenced here:

Spoiler

2358553B-403D-43DE-9D2B-EF83A45039FE.thumb.jpeg.e97b61313ffcbcfcc7228870ea546ace.jpeg

353DF1B4-3139-4472-A373-0C562894C669.thumb.png.13f68c77012b994005ad5960a74a382d.png

C092F4BE-2782-466D-8176-32B58F72B3AF.thumb.jpeg.920202c3f69f390e9f3aa8859c5515fe.jpeg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
singsingsing
2 minutes ago, VBOY9977 said:

Maybe the announcement JB made is Jessa’s pregnancy. I noticed that the clothes they’re wearing on that scene are the same from a picture of the family that was published, in which Jessa and Ben have their pregnancy announcement picture clothes. (I know I pay way too much attention to clothes, don’t @ me 😂)

But idk why JB would be the one announcing it though

 

pictures referenced here:

  Hide contents

2358553B-403D-43DE-9D2B-EF83A45039FE.thumb.jpeg.e97b61313ffcbcfcc7228870ea546ace.jpeg

353DF1B4-3139-4472-A373-0C562894C669.thumb.png.13f68c77012b994005ad5960a74a382d.png

C092F4BE-2782-466D-8176-32B58F72B3AF.thumb.jpeg.920202c3f69f390e9f3aa8859c5515fe.jpeg

 

Nice catch. Maybe they had JB do the announcement to throw everyone off. And since Jessa's pregnancy hasn't been teased in the previews yet, that would make sense.

  • Upvote 9
  • I Agree 2
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CaricatureQualities
On 2/10/2019 at 8:13 PM, singsingsing said:

That sounds like they're just playing a rerun.

Oh they did @singsingsing, they did, It is a rerun but they still called it a "Countdown to the New Season" and "an exclusive sneak peek". Sigh.

Btw, I loved the rufus avatar but seeing the Nancy Pelosi clap everytime you post is bringing me life right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MoonFace

So. What was the big tease that was to I involve Jana?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Buzzard
11 hours ago, VBOY9977 said:

Maybe the announcement JB made is Jessa’s pregnancy. I noticed that the clothes they’re wearing on that scene are the same from a picture of the family that was published, in which Jessa and Ben have their pregnancy announcement picture clothes. (I know I pay way too much attention to clothes, don’t @ me 😂)

But idk why JB would be the one announcing it though

 

pictures referenced here:

  Hide contents

2358553B-403D-43DE-9D2B-EF83A45039FE.thumb.jpeg.e97b61313ffcbcfcc7228870ea546ace.jpeg

353DF1B4-3139-4472-A373-0C562894C669.thumb.png.13f68c77012b994005ad5960a74a382d.png

C092F4BE-2782-466D-8176-32B58F72B3AF.thumb.jpeg.920202c3f69f390e9f3aa8859c5515fe.jpeg

 

It must be cold in the house because most of the menfolk are wearing fleeces, and boob has a jacket on.  Thats just odd for taking a picture AND having a "big" family convo/announcement.

Maybe Jana is adopting Tyler.

I REALLY hope that the "big announcement" isnt Lauren, Jessa, and another J'sister being prego. I dont know why that would be a "surprise" other than Jessa and Lauren would have had close to the same due dates.  If that is what this is, FUCK THEM. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Waffle Time
allthegoodnamesrgone
On 2/8/2019 at 9:22 AM, lumpentheologie said:

@allthegoodnamesrgone and @karen77, I'm curious what inspired you to get married so quickly. Of course feel free not to answer if I'm getting too personal, but I'm always surprised when non-fundies do this. Is it normal among the people you know? 

Several people commented that it was really fast for my husband and I to get engaged after only dating for 2 and a half years, so my experience is very different. We had to explain pretty often that visa issues sped up our timeline, but most people I know of my generation are together for 5-10 years before getting married. 

Did you feel like you couldn't be together in a meaningful way without being married?  It just seems so strange to me to decide to make a lifetime commitment to someone you only recently met.  The only reasons I could imagine doing it is if I wasn't allowed to have sex without being married, or if I got pregnant in a society that would really punish me for having children without being married. And both of those seem like making the best of a pretty bad situation. 

Sorry I'm so late on this, I'm without a computer at home at the moment and this site is really hard to use on my phone with my shitty eyes.  

Looking back I'm not sure why I felt the need to marry so quickly, other than I was caught up in the idea of getting married and being married. Everyone around me was getting married, and I felt that we couldn't live together without being married (though we were having sex), and we really couldn't have kids without being married.  This was 1996 and I had just started my dabbling into fundy lite circles and attending a fundy lite church.  I don't have the same views I do know that I did 23 years ago, like you MUST be married to live together, I still think you should wait to have kids until you at least know the person you are with is someone you can at the very least stand to be around for the rest of your life, even if you aren't together you still have a kid and need to get along for their sake.   

I still love my husband dearly, but as with everything time has changed us both a bit so things are as cohesive and smooth as they used to be (if that makes sense) I'm not in a place I would want to divorce him at all,  but I see how it happens with other people after 20+ years together. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Thank You 7
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sad
Satan'sFortress
21 hours ago, Buzzard said:

He files a flight plan with Jana, his “wingwoman.” (Does he know what that means???)

Well . . . to be really picky & technical, wingman (or wingwoman) originated as a term to describe a secondary pilot (or plane) who's role was to support the lead pilot (or plane.)  The meaning of a friend to back you up while cruising for a date came later (not sure when/where, but it would be interesting to know!)  I'm guessing the JD was referring to the aviation term, whether or not he knew the other meaning.

Not trying to be pedantic here, just someone who lives with a history buff, so this just stuck with me.  Mr. Fortress would be so proud of me right now.  🙄

 

  • Upvote 15
  • Thank You 1
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ihaveanexamintwodays

i did think the "wingwoman" comment was a funny one from John David! I figured he meant it (possibly in a co-pilot kind of way...) that Jana was his Duggar go-to for advice on what to do/ideas to plan/how to execute, for all things girlfriend-related throughout his courtship/engagement

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Buzzard
17 minutes ago, ihaveanexamintwodays said:

i did think the "wingwoman" comment was a funny one from John David! I figured he meant it (possibly in a co-pilot kind of way...) that Jana was his Duggar go-to for advice on what to do/ideas to plan/how to execute, for all things girlfriend-related throughout his courtship/engagement

That was my reading as well.  She was his "assistant," helping him navigate life.  It wasnt that she flew with him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SassyPants

All I have to say is for once in YEARS, I have a free night and the house to myself and that is what they show...a bunch of retreads? How much new content do they show each season, about 1 episode worth? I could see maybe wedging one of those retreads into the middle of a season, but not during kick off week!

 

Come on TLC!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nicole Jinger Duggar

The way Joe said "drink it all!' when Kendra was chugging water has the same vibes as the "naughty or nice" conversation a season or two back. Sigh... I'll be in the prayer closet if you need me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lumpentheologie
2 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Sorry I'm so late on this, I'm without a computer at home at the moment and this site is really hard to use on my phone with my shitty eyes.  

Looking back I'm not sure why I felt the need to marry so quickly, other than I was caught up in the idea of getting married and being married. Everyone around me was getting married, and I felt that we couldn't live together without being married (though we were having sex), and we really couldn't have kids without being married.  This was 1996 and I had just started my dabbling into fundy lite circles and attending a fundy lite church.  I don't have the same views I do know that I did 23 years ago, like you MUST be married to live together, I still think you should wait to have kids until you at least know the person you are with is someone you can at the very least stand to be around for the rest of your life, even if you aren't together you still have a kid and need to get along for their sake.   

I still love my husband dearly, but as with everything time has changed us both a bit so things are as cohesive and smooth as they used to be (if that makes sense) I'm not in a place I would want to divorce him at all,  but I see how it happens with other people after 20+ years together. 

Thanks for being so open, I appreciate the answer!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Happy
Carm_88

They are going to keep teasing and it will turn out to be nothing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tired
Coconut Flan

February 18, 2019 episode 2 Jinger Has a Baby.

The hills are alive for Josiah and Lauren as they go on their Austrian honeymoon; while there, they re-enact scenes from The Sound of Music and visit with a local family; Jinger worries she won't have the smooth labor she was hoping for.

Edited by Coconut Flan
Who knows where my mind was when typing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
libgirl2
23 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

February 18, 2019 episode 2 Jinger Has a Baby.

The hills are alive for Josiah and Lauren as they go on their Austrian honeymoon; while there, they re-enact scenes from The Sound of Music and visit with a local family; Jinger worries she won't have the smooth labor she was hoping for.

How exciting---- :( 

Edited by Coconut Flan
Apologize for my mind taking a momentary vacation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.



×