Fundies out to discredit Romney: It Begins.

[clarinetpower]

Perry backer: Romney in a 'cult,' not a Christian

By KASIE HUNT — Associated Press

Posted: 5:30pm on Oct 7, 2011; Modified: 9:20pm on Oct 7, 2011

WASHINGTON — The pastor who introduced Texas Gov. Rick Perry at a conservative gathering Friday said rival presidential candidate Mitt Romney is not a Christian and is in a cult because he is a Mormon.

Robert Jeffress, the senior pastor at First Baptist Church in Dallas, made similar remarks about Romney when he ran in the 2008 campaign. Event organizers at the Values Voters Summit selected Jeffress to introduce Perry, but the Perry campaign was consulted about the choice and approved Jeffress to introduce the Texas governor.

Jeffress endorsed Perry at the event and introduced him as "a proven leader, a true conservative, and a committed follower of Christ."

After his remarks, Jeffress told reporters that Perry's religion is different from Romney's.

"Rick Perry's a Christian. He's an evangelical Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ," Jeffress said. "Mitt Romney's a good moral person, but he's not a Christian. Mormonism is not Christianity. It has always been considered a cult by the mainstream of Christianity."

Romney is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, whose members are commonly called Mormons.

Perry and his campaign made clear that he disagrees with Jeffress.

Asked by reporters Friday night in Tiffin, Iowa, whether Mormonism is a cult, Perry replied, "No."

Earlier Friday, spokesman Mark Miner said that "the governor does not believe Mormonism is a cult."

Still, the campaign refused to definitively say whether they were accepting his offered endorsement. "The governor is running a campaign of inclusion and looks forward to receiving the endorsement of many people," Miner said. "People can endorse whoever they like."

Jeffress had made similar comments about Romney before, during the former Massachusetts governor's first presidential run in 2008.

"Mitt Romney is a Mormon, and don't let anybody tell you otherwise. Even though he talks about Jesus as his lord and savior, he is not a Christian," Jeffress said in a 2007 sermon. "Mormonism is not Christianity. Mormonism is a cult. And just because somebody talks about Jesus does not make them a believer."

In that sermon, Jeffress said he was frustrated that some religious leaders had backed Romney anyway. "What really distresses me is some of my ministerial friends, and even leaders in our convention, say, 'Well, he talks about Jesus, we talk about Jesus, what's the big deal?' It is a big deal."

The campaign initially said the decision to have Jeffress introduce Perry had been made strictly by organizers, but a Perry spokesman told The Associated Press Friday night that the campaign had agreed to it.

"It was their suggestion; it was their choice of who introduced us. They asked our campaign what we thought, and we said OK," Miner said.

Jeffress is a prominent religious leader in Texas. His First Baptist Church has more than 10,000 members. In 2009, Perry recognized Jeffress by name during his speech at a dinner for the Light of Life dinner and gala in Dallas.

AP reporter Charles Babington in Tiffin, Iowa, contributed to this report.

[Austin]

I have been saying for a long time, especially since Romney has been running for a long time (since 2007, I think), that a mormon will not be elected in this country. Not at this time, anyway. Having been an evangelical myself and pretty submerged in the more mainstream evangelical culture (not the extreme fundie sort), I know that most evangelicals consider mormonism to be a false religion and a cult. I've been hearing that since I was a kid. The Godmakers, among other films, were very popular for years within evangelical circles, and I think I've seen it three times in all, at three different churches.

Now this will not drive the evangelicals into Obama's arms - hardly. It is more likely that they just will not turn out at all. I'm not sure, given how far the party has moved to the right, how the GOP can win without the evangelical vote, but I guess we'll see how it all plays out.

[FaustianSlip]

There are clips from The Godmakers on YouTube, or there used to be. It's insane... though a lot of the beliefs outlined therein are actually held by the Mormon church. I think the problem for any Mormon running for president is going to be that their social and political views, as well as their church, are way too conservative for most Democrats, but their religious beliefs will put them out of the running with the vast majority of evangelical Christians, which comprise a huge swath of the Republican party's base. Someone like Romney doesn't really have a base he can draw from in order to at least give him a reasonable shot at being elected.

In a way, it's a shame. I don't want any of the Republican candidates, but I'd much rather take my chances with Romney than someone like Bachman or Perry. I disagree with Romney on a wide range of issues, but I don't think he's clinically insane. The same cannot be said for the other two.

[Guest Anonymous]

In a way, it's a shame. I don't want any of the Republican candidates, but I'd much rather take my chances with Romney than someone like Bachman or Perry. I disagree with Romney on a wide range of issues, but I don't think he's clinically insane. The same cannot be said for the other two.

+1 to all of this.

[TheJewAmongUs]

I read a couple of Mormon blogs, and they get real indignant and say it doesn't matter where he goes to church, but that he goes to church. I assume if a candidate went to a synagogue or a mosque it would then matter that he didn't go to church?

[Alecto]

The Southern Baptist Church has already come out and spoke against Glenn Beck for being a Mormon, so I could easily see their views on Romney being public, though in a carefully crafted way - probably a rise in "Mormons are not Christians" rhetoric.

[doggie]

it's like the kettle calling the pot back. Like our two esteemed candidates are not involved in cult behavior. as usual if your are a real christian you are a good person.

[hoipolloi]

I've been waiting for this because Fundies can't help themselves.

[kpmom]

So they don't want Romney, but Perry seems to be fading. Who does that leave? Cain?

[NurseNell]

In a way, it's a shame. I don't want any of the Republican candidates, but I'd much rather take my chances with Romney than someone like Bachman or Perry. I disagree with Romney on a wide range of issues, but I don't think he's clinically insane. The same cannot be said for the other two.

Isn't that the truth! I don't really see any good Republican candidate. And while Independents win in some local election there's no one on the national scene.

[mirele]

+1 to all of this.

Amen. I remember reading here on FJ someone saying a few weeks ago that given all the strange religiosity on the GOP side, it was weird that Romney had the "normal" religion.

I am actually happy that this has finally happened, I've been patiently waiting for it to happen because I knew eventually someone was going to slip up and use the "cult" word about a presidential frontrunner's religion. I used to be a Mormon until I resigned my membership in 2008. One of the things that annoyed the crap out of me was that the church was so willing to be used as deep pockets and foot soldiers by religions that otherwise considered us a cult for Prop 208 in California. I think the church leadership believed the church would be recognized as "Christian" after that, but that obviously didn't happen.

So now we get this Robert Jeffress mouthing off--and believe me, it's a big deal, because this guy is the pastor of First Baptist Dallas, one of the largest megachurches in the USA--and the GOP's got to talk about the elephant in its living room. Not unhappy about this, not unhappy at all. Although I think the GOP is going to patch things up somehow, the cult word is out in the open. And, frankly, I do wish that these anti-Mormon types would remember two things: 1) we're not electing the First Pastor, the President is the president of everyone, not just evangelical Christians and 2) the government is not permitted to have a religious test for office in the USA (Constitution, Art. 6, para. 3), maybe it's time for the churches to possible RESPECT the Constitution, even if this doesn't apply to them, and say, OK, we're not going to judge the guy based on his religion, but on his political ideas and actions. (Yes, yes, I know, I'll be waiting until we can throw snowballs in hell, but it's a nice thought.)

[Guest Anonymous]

So they don't want Romney, but Perry seems to be fading. Who does that leave? Cain?

I think there's a whole lot of Republicans who won't vote for Cain because he's black. Hell, they're calling him a race baiter and a mud slinger all over the internet because he dared to say something negative about Rick Perry's hunting camp with the racist name.

I don't have a clue who's going to end up with the nomination at this point. I would have thought that Perry would be the darling of the far right, but maybe not. This primary is just weird.

[hoipolloi]

Would never vote for any of these Republican jerkwads but can't help thinking of an old friend's maxim for dealing with, uh, difficult people: Let the as$holes get in a fight with each other.

When you do, they often eliminate each other.

[Kelya]

As a former Massachusetts resident, I'd be scared to see Romney as President. He was a terribly ineffective governor who pretty much never came out of his office. People who supported him like to talk about how he decreased spending, ignoring the fact he did it at the expense of public education and the poor. The healthcare bill passed while he was governor was not engineered by him and based off of a lot of Ted Kennedy's earlier work, additionally he vetoed multiple parts of the bill that would have done things like provide dental benefits and encourage small businesses to participate in insurance rather than just pay fees. His 180 spin on abortion was repulsive and startling to many who helped elect him, and his "leadership" in the Big Dig was preceded by him showing no oversight or leadership or interest in the project until it finally killed someone. Oh, and his same sex marriage switch was wonderful- note that it got passed while he was a governor, with no help and a shitload of hinderance from him, when originally he supported domestic partnerships and later civil unions, until he realized he'd never become a Republican darling if he supported anything other than "damn the gays!"

He's a sneak and a snake who cares more about furthering his political care than caring for the constituents who elected him when he was singing a totally different tune.

[Childless]

Oh, good lord. Not Cain. That man is insane. He wants to strip Muslims of their first amendment rights simply for being Muslims. He also wants to outlaw the building of mosques in this country. Not that the president can actually make that happen on his own, but what does it say about the citizens of this country if we were to elect him to the highest office? We certainly wouldn't be that shining beacon of freedom we like to imagine we are.

[Hane]

Oh, for the olden days of my youth, when no one gave much of a rat's @$$ about a candidate's religion.* The natter about JFK's Catholicism was a sneeze in a windstorm compared with this.

*Granted, no avowed atheist or agnostic would have stood a snowball's chance in hell. Those were the days of "It doesn't matter what church you go to, so long as you go."

[marmalade]

So they don't want Romney, but Perry seems to be fading. Who does that leave? Cain?

That would be awesome. He's even more certifiable than Perry or Bachmann, something I didn't believe could be possible.

eta: I just noticed I'm now an Anaconda Hunter. Hilarious I noticed it making this post about whackadoos.

[Lillybee]

I think that the current crop of front runners are so nuts that they would kick out Goldwater from the Repub. party.

[HoneyBunny]

This, more than anything else, is what's crazy-making about the fundies. That THEIR form of Christianity is the only true one. That other Christians who are not evangelicals are headed for hell. The frickin' arrogance of that is beyond belief.

One of those kooks said, years ago, that Mother Teresa might be a very nice person, but she was doomed to hell because she wasn't BORN AGAIN. Uh, she didn't need to be born again...she never led an unvirtuous life to begin with. But these crazy, lying, hypocritical fundies claim that they've been born again, and so are on the sure path to eternal salvation.

God, it's going to be a loooooonnnnnngggg election season, isn't it? I'm leaving the country for 4 months. Wish it was longer!

[demgirl]

I think this is terrible for Perry. It's one thing to make insinuations about Romney's religion. It's another to call it a cult and Perry isn't doing nearly enough to backpedal and distance himself from those comments. I've really enjoyed watching his campaign sink like a stone and this is just another PR screwup. I think Romney is going to walk into the nomination, less because he did anything right, and more because the others seem determined to destroy their own chances. If it's Romney v. Obama... who knows? I think the hardline evangelicals/Tea Party stay at home or vote a 3rd party or write in candidate. On the other hand, I think most independents go to Romney, and even some Democrats at this point. This election is a referendum on the economy -- that's all it is. More and more, I think Romney wins b/c he's not identified as the president who was in office while the entire economy sank. With Perry or Cain, you could distract people with their wingnut belief systems, but with Romney I think the election is just the populace showing how pissed off they are that there are no jobs, no help and few options.

In sum, my updated guess: Romney v. Obama. Romney wins.

[Guest Anonymous]

And Ron Paul wins the Values Voter straw poll. These waters are muddy - is Ron Paul even remotely electable? How do the Republicans feel about him? It seems like I haven't heard that much from him so far.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... traw-poll/

[Austin]

Well, one thing I know is that 14 months is an eternity in an election cycle. A lot will happen in that time, and by the time we get down to the nomination, things will probably look VERY different.

[hoipolloi]

Well, one thing I know is that 14 months is an eternity in an election cycle. A lot will happen in that time, and by the time we get down to the nomination, things will probably look VERY different.

Yep. At least one of the current front runners will have a major scandal blow up which sinks his/her campaign. It's inevitable - and it's almost inevitable that said scandal will involve s*e*x :obscene-sexualkyjelly:

[Hane]

Oh, for the olden days of my youth, when no one gave much of a rat's @$$ about a candidate's religion.* The natter about JFK's Catholicism was a sneeze in a windstorm compared with this.

*Granted, no avowed atheist or agnostic would have stood a snowball's chance in hell. Those were the days of "It doesn't matter what church you go to, so long as you go."

Oh, and what was said upthread:

I read a couple of Mormon blogs, and they get real indignant and say it doesn't matter where he goes to church, but that he goes to church. I assume if a candidate went to a synagogue or a mosque it would then matter that he didn't go to church?

As if someone's religious affiliation, or lack thereof, had squat to do with the price of beans.

[Kaylee]

And Ron Paul wins the Values Voter straw poll. These waters are muddy - is Ron Paul even remotely electable? How do the Republicans feel about him? It seems like I haven't heard that much from him so far.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... traw-poll/

It's hard to tell if he'd be electable. In one poll, he was just barely behind Romney and the only other Republican who was voted as electable against Obama. The problem with the polls is that Ron Paul supporters have a huge internet network going on and lots of in-person networking. Most tend to be pretty hardcore/fanatical supporters and will vote in every online poll or survey mentioning him. He does good in those polls, but it's hard to judge how they would translate over to real life because the other candidates have a much larger base of people who like them and would vote for them, but are not going to comb the internet looking for polls to vote in to show their support.

The mainstream Republicans and the GOP itself really do not seem to like him at all, although some of the old-school paleo-conservatives and some of the newer more libertarian types love him. Many of the early Tea Party types supported him, but the whole Tea Party makeup and internal politics shifted once they started throwing their weight behind Palin and the mainstream GOP got involved with them. His main support in the Republican Party would most likely be from people endorsed by or affiliated with the Republican Liberty Caucus.