Dillards 71: YAAAAAY

[Drala]

Jill is conditioned to put up with a lot of disappointment and conflict with D'Wreck and never begin to consider just walking away.  It's simply not an option for her:  she's dedicated to heroic suffering for the cause of Christ in a covenant marriage.  Jill might have had unrealistic expectations and illusions about what she was getting into when she married D'Wreck, but I think she is dealing with that and adjusting to her reality.  She has two kids to look after, and ensuring their well-being is her priority.  She is absolutely unequipped to strike out on her own, and I'm not convinced that moving back home with mom and dad is an option.   I think D'Wreck would have to beat her and/or be running around drinking and womanizing before JB & Michelle would consider giving Jill support to leave her husband.  If they do separate, it's more likely to come from D'Wreck, who has had a lot more difficulty adjusting to the breadwinning husband and engaged father role than Jill has had with being a devoted mother and supportive helpmeet.  I can see D'Wreck walking out on the marriage, but not Jill, even if it were sheer hell.

[Buzzard]

On 1/3/2019 at 7:20 PM, singsingsing said:

He's satirizing all those resolution/lifestyle posts. The problem is that he's doing it poorly. Whenever Derick tries to be satirical, it falls flat. Either people don't get it (which is at least partially on him - your satire is no good if nobody understands that it's satire), or they get it but they don't think it's funny. He's not a very good writer, he lacks a certain social awareness or nuance, and he obviously thinks he has a dry sense of humour but it just comes across as mean, obtuse, and/or lame 99% of the time.

I just assumed he was poking fun at another TLC show - "My 600 pound life" - because he's incapable of not messing with other TLC shows. 

[xenobia]

I can imagine a scenario where Dwreck stays with Jill during most of his law school education. When he's finished, he'll also be finishing his marriage. If he had an affair, that would solve a lot of his problems. It also includes that Jill would get the support of her parents. 

But most interesting, I can really imagine Dwreck spilling the beans - a book, TV-show or something else - about the Duggars. It wouldn't make me like him, but I have to admit it would be interesting to see what he has to say when the gloves comes off. 

[Beermeet]

Surely Dwreck was made to sign a NDA? Right?

[Snarkasarus Rex]

I think Dillwank is a lot like Josh in that he may want to leave, but he won’t because he would actually have to work hard to make it happen.

I could see him doing a long term mission without Jill and the boys. That way she could move back home but they would still be married.  

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

50 minutes ago, xenobia said:

I can imagine a scenario where Dwreck stays with Jill during most of his law school education. When he's finished, he'll also be finishing his marriage. If he had an affair, that would solve a lot of his problems. It also includes that Jill would get the support of her parents. 

But most interesting, I can really imagine Dwreck spilling the beans - a book, TV-show or something else - about the Duggars. It wouldn't make me like him, but I have to admit it would be interesting to see what he has to say when the gloves comes off. 

I could seem him selling out his in-laws for a buck, I can also see where he would try to make himself the victim, by getting scammed by the ebil Duggar's. If he were anyone but Derrick (or Josh) he would make a lot of money.  Any of the other kids or in-laws could make some real bank on selling the story of the the cult of Jim Bob. Especially the more quiet ones, like Joken & Jabbie, Siren and Joy & Austin. I think Jinger & Jessa would have a harder time of it simply because they are selling the family brand so hard. Joy, Josiah & Joe are intermittently on social media but pretty much everything they post, with 1 exception for each Joy & Si, that were more obnoxious than anything, the rest have been very mundane things, family pics or just photos of each other living their lives.  

27 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

Surely Dwreck was made to sign a NDA? Right?

Probably, but there are ways around those, depending on the size of the fine someone may be willing to front that cost, in the hopes of making it back 10 fold in book sales and interviews. 

[SamiKatz]

33 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

Surely Dwreck was made to sign a NDA? Right?

Do "volunteers" need to sign NDAs? 

[HarryPotterFan]

1 minute ago, SamiKatz said:

Do "volunteers" need to sign NDAs? 

 If you are dumb enough to volunteer for a tv show that’s made your FIL bank you are  too dumb for law school 

[Georgiana]

34 minutes ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

I could see him doing a long term mission without Jill and the boys. That way she could move back home but they would still be married.  

This is one of the ways fundies try to hide failing marriages, so I think you could be right.  Derick and Jill may just start to lead separate lives instead of divorcing.  Other options include them still living together, but they have their own spaces in the house and they only meet for meal time and bed time.  I could see them ending up a lot like the Andersons: still "married", but leading mostly separate lives, sleeping in separate bedrooms, and he is often away for "work" or "mission".  

The real problem is that Jill seems really hell-bent on having her parents' marriage.  And JB and Michelle are not only incredibly enmeshed, they do some real fear-mongering about what happens in marriages where the parties have independence.  I don't think Jill would handle distance from Derick well, though if it was her only option instead of divorce, I think she might take it.  But I think Jill's clear answer to ALL of the problems in their marriage is to pray harder and spend MORE time together.  

[singsingsing]

8 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

The real problem is that Jill seems really hell-bent on having her parents' marriage.  And JB and Michelle are not only incredibly enmeshed, they do some real fear-mongering about what happens in marriages where the parties have independence.  I don't think Jill would handle distance from Derick well, though if it was her only option instead of divorce, I think she might take it.  But I think Jill's clear answer to ALL of the problems in their marriage is to pray harder and spend MORE time together.

Yeah. I mean, Jill came right out and said that she wanted a husband who was like her dad. And that if Jim Bob chose him, he must be good. Problem is (while Jim Bob is awful in his own special ways), Derick is really nothing like Jim Bob. 

[NotQuiteMotY]

57 minutes ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

I think Dillwank is a lot like Josh in that he may want to leave, but he won’t because he would actually have to work hard to make it happen.

I could see him doing a long term mission without Jill and the boys. That way she could move back home but they would still be married.  

I'm thinking this is the most likely scenario. If they get to the point of actually splitting, they won't divorce because SIN!!! but will effectively be separated. He'll do a long-term mission or just up and move somewhere else for a job and will try to give a coy statement on Twitter about it being better for her to be around family while he's somewhere dangerous. That is, of course, assuming that they actually are unhappy; we've established that Jill is not the best communicator, either because of the SOTDRT or natural awkwardness, and that filter would make a lot of normal stuff seem weird.

To fellow migraine sufferers: UGH! Hate them. Mine are mostly triggered by stress and lack of sleep, so they hit at basically the worst possible times, and the only things that help at all are sleep and Excedrin. (Most recent was the afternoon of my brother's wedding. Morning sickness + migraine nausea + spending longer in a car than expected made it pretty much hell between the ceremony and the reception.) I've got Imitrex for them, but I don't always get it in time.

[Georgiana]

1 minute ago, singsingsing said:

Yeah. I mean, Jill came right out and said that she wanted a husband who was like her dad. And that if Jim Bob chose him, he must be good. Problem is (while Jim Bob is awful in his own special ways), Derick is really nothing like Jim Bob. 

And JB and Michelle, whatever else they are, are a little bit rare in the fact that they love to lead such enmeshed lives as a married couple.  I know many very successful (fundie-lite) marriages in my parents' generation, and none of them are as attached at the hip as JB and M are.  Even in my grandparents' generation, you rarely saw couples that were almost never apart like JB and M.

It's just not a common dynamic.  It's pretty rare a couple can do that level of constant togetherness healthily in the long term, especially if one party was not raised to expect or desire that kind of constant companionship.  And even if Jill got someone EXACTLY like JB, she's not exactly like Michelle, so it may not work.  

And someone should have been TELLING Jill that since she was a kid so that she could have more reasonable expectations of marriage.  But instead she was promised that if she just followed the rules, God would give her exactly what she wanted.  

[EmmieJ]

My two cents on the Dillard's marriage and its viability is worth exactly that, but here goes anyway.

I don't think divorce is likely, or at least not for years and years.  Derrick's mom is a holy roller and is clearly aligned with conservative religious beliefs.  So not only would there be a lot of pressure coming from JB and Michele to "make it work," I am pretty sure Derrick would be getting the same pressure from his mom as well, if there came a time when he was thinking of divorce.  The thing is, Jill would never give him a legitimate (or what passes for legitimate in the fundie world) reason to divorce her.  She will be the most faithful, supportive wife who always agrees with her husband, doesn't argue with him, is meek and submissive, blah, blah, blah.  So what grounds could he claim in support of wanting a divorce that wouldn't also make him a pariah in that world?   From what I've seen of Derrick, he's more likely to take the easy path than the hard one.  

Jill would never seriously consider divorce, probably even if Derrick got physically abusive.  It would have to be something truly terrible and constant before she'd think of ending the marriage, and I've never seen anything to indicate Derrick is abusive - just a smug "melted candle" of a jerk who also seems reluctant to work for a living wage.

I think both of them had unrealistic expectations of marriage and have been disappointed.  I can't stand JB, but he is most definitely devoted to Michele and very affectionate toward her.  For all their talk about the man being the headship and the wife submits to him, I believe JB and Michele more closely follow the adage "happy wife, happy life".   I don't see that same dynamic between Derrick and Jill.   I wonder if Derrick believed he and Jill would be like fundie hippies, spreading their white man's gospel in foreign lands, living simply in yurts, maybe Jill could weave clothes from the sheep or yak wool, being filmed by TLC and living easily on that income.  Jill would easily bear many babies and it would be exciting and fulfilling.

Fast forward to today.  They are living in a small apartment (I think it's the same one they lived in while Derrick went through that Cross Church ministry thing, which came to nothing).  They have no discernible source of income - someone is subsidizing their monthly expenses - possibly a combination of JB and Derrick's mom?  Jill has had two difficult births.  No missioncation in sight.  Derrick is in law school, requiring Jill to be on her own much of the time.  They drop off their two kids for Jessa and Ben to babysit, but I've never seen photos showing that they reciprocate.  We speculate that there is some strain in the relationship between Derrick and his in-laws and the likely effect that must be having on Jill.   

I think they will stay married.  Maybe with time, Derrick will actually settle down, either practice law or fall back on his accounting degree.  He could well stray but I bet he'll be like my BIL's father - cheats time and again, gets caught, says he's sorry and will never do so again, wife forgives him.  Lather, rinse, repeat.  Jill earns her martyrdom, Derick has a wife who will always forgive and put some of the blame on herself.  Sadly, there are a lot of non-fundie marriages that work this way as well.

[Carm_88]

Honestly, Derick could have been the most supportive husband he could have been through Joshgate and it would not have mattered. The best thing he could have done for Jill would have been to get her some counselling, but I doubt Derick believes in that. Pray it away, like everything else. Jill can't be helped by prayer alone, she needs help to deal with her whole childhood; again won't happen. 

Derick probably needs some help himself, he went through a lot! But again, never going to happen. Marriage counselling? Likely would be good. Also wouldn't happen! How they could be helped if they weren't so caught up in themselves! 

[Dandruff]

2 hours ago, xenobia said:

But most interesting, I can really imagine Dwreck spilling the beans - a book, TV-show or something else - about the Duggars. It wouldn't make me like him, but I have to admit it would be interesting to see what he has to say when the gloves comes off.

It would be interesting, but I'm not inclined to believe what Dwreck says.  I also think that the way he treated Jazz might come back to haunt him if he "went public".

[Georgiana]

2 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Honestly, Derick could have been the most supportive husband he could have been through Joshgate and it would not have mattered. The best thing he could have done for Jill would have been to get her some counselling, but I doubt Derick believes in that. Pray it away, like everything else. Jill can't be helped by prayer alone, she needs help to deal with her whole childhood; again won't happen. 

Derick probably needs some help himself, he went through a lot! But again, never going to happen. Marriage counselling? Likely would be good. Also wouldn't happen! How they could be helped if they weren't so caught up in themselves! 

 Exactly.  Jill has an active role in this, even if she was originally a victim of this marriage, because Jill is still an adult.  Derick cannot FORCE her to see the toxic elements of her own childhood if she refuses to.  All the counselling in the world cannot help or change a person who is not willing to accept that there is something wrong and be open to change.  

Frankly, the only thing Derick could have done for Jill is give her exactly the relationship she was expecting where he morphs magically into Jim Bob and becomes her father-husband.  That's essentially the only condition she is geared to thrive in.  And that's unreasonable.  Jill has a lot of very unreasonable needs/wants/expectations in this relationship that she doesn't seem willing to address or work on.  And Derick cannot force her to.  All he can do is draw boundaries and let her know what he is/is not willing to do.  

To his credit, we've seen Derick sacrifice more of his lifestyle for the family than we've seen from Jill.  He's been an asshat about it, but he did give up mission work, agree to move back close to her family, and look into other options besides another 9-5 right away.  What have we seen from Jill?  She just keeps following Derick around instead of cultivating her own interests, joining mommy/women's groups, going back into midwifery, etc.  Maybe she just doesn't post it, but we should note that for all his jerk-ish ways, Derick is the only one we've seen actually sacrificing for his partner.  

And since it's very clear that Jill believes that everything her parents say is right and perfect, it's very plausible that she is in fact unwilling to change any of her expectations or make any effort to find a compromise that works for Derick.  Until she's willing to see her parents as flawed and imperfect people who may not have all the answers, I don't think she's able to have a healthy and happy relationship with any spouse, even if she had one much better than Derick.  Until she takes JB and her impression of her parents' marriage off that unrealistic pedestal, nothing else can ever measure up.  She will always see everything else as less than a success, and that will erode any marriage, even the best match.  

[VelociRapture]

15 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

My two cents on the Dillard's marriage and its viability is worth exactly that, but here goes anyway.

I don't think divorce is likely, or at least not for years and years.  Derrick's mom is a holy roller and is clearly aligned with conservative religious beliefs.  So not only would there be a lot of pressure coming from JB and Michele to "make it work," I am pretty sure Derrick would be getting the same pressure from his mom as well, if there came a time when he was thinking of divorce.  The thing is, Jill would never give him a legitimate (or what passes for legitimate in the fundie world) reason to divorce her.  She will be the most faithful, supportive wife who always agrees with her husband, doesn't argue with him, is meek and submissive, blah, blah, blah.  So what grounds could he claim in support of wanting a divorce that wouldn't also make him a pariah in that world?   From what I've seen of Derrick, he's more likely to take the easy path than the hard one.  

Jill would never seriously consider divorce, probably even if Derrick got physically abusive.  It would have to be something truly terrible and constant before she'd think of ending the marriage, and I've never seen anything to indicate Derrick is abusive - just a smug "melted candle" of a jerk who also seems reluctant to work for a living wage.

I think both of them had unrealistic expectations of marriage and have been disappointed.  I can't stand JB, but he is most definitely devoted to Michele and very affectionate toward her.  For all their talk about the man being the headship and the wife submits to him, I believe JB and Michele more closely follow the adage "happy wife, happy life".   I don't see that same dynamic between Derrick and Jill.   I wonder if Derrick believed he and Jill would be like fundie hippies, spreading their white man's gospel in foreign lands, living simply in yurts, maybe Jill could weave clothes from the sheep or yak wool, being filmed by TLC and living easily on that income.  Jill would easily bear many babies and it would be exciting and fulfilling.

Fast forward to today.  They are living in a small apartment (I think it's the same one they lived in while Derrick went through that Cross Church ministry thing, which came to nothing).  They have no discernible source of income - someone is subsidizing their monthly expenses - possibly a combination of JB and Derrick's mom?  Jill has had two difficult births.  No missioncation in sight.  Derrick is in law school, requiring Jill to be on her own much of the time.  They drop off their two kids for Jessa and Ben to babysit, but I've never seen photos showing that they reciprocate.  We speculate that there is some strain in the relationship between Derrick and his in-laws and the likely effect that must be having on Jill.   

I think they will stay married.  Maybe with time, Derrick will actually settle down, either practice law or fall back on his accounting degree.  He could well stray but I bet he'll be like my BIL's father - cheats time and again, gets caught, says he's sorry and will never do so again, wife forgives him.  Lather, rinse, repeat.  Jill earns her martyrdom, Derick has a wife who will always forgive and put some of the blame on herself.  Sadly, there are a lot of non-fundie marriages that work this way as well.

Regarding the babysitting: 

Jill and Derick were in and out of the country a lot when Spurgeon and Henry were very young, which would have limited their availability as babysitters. I’m not sure how close the Dills live to the TTH, but Benessa live very close to her parents - so they have a good number of babysitters available nearby should they need one. We know Jessa has watched the boys at least once at her house, but the Dills also seem to have relied more on Derick’s mom for babysitting in the past than they have relied on Jill’s family.

And I do think the Dills have watched Spurgeon at least once:

All that to say - I don’t think the Dills not appearing to babysit the Seewald boys means much. 

[EmmieJ]

2 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Regarding the babysitting: 

Jill and Derick were in and out of the country a lot when Spurgeon and Henry were very young, which would have limited their availability as babysitters. I’m not sure how close the Dills live to the TTH, but Benessa live very close to her parents - so they have a good number of babysitters available nearby should they need one. We know Jessa has watched the boys at least once at her house, but the Dills also seem to have relied more on Derick’s mom for babysitting in the past than they have relied on Jill’s family.

And I do think the Dills have watched Spurgeon at least onc

All that to say - I don’t think the Dills not appearing to babysit the Seewald boys means much. 

Good points.  I'm not at all familiar with Arkansas, so I wasn't sure how close distance-wise the Dillards are to Jill's parents' home or to Jessa/Ben.  I just remember seeing at least a couple instagram photos with Jill and Derrick on a date night and thanking Jessa and Ben for watching the kids.  But you're right - Jill has also posted at least several photos showing Cathy watching the boys for them as well. 

[Georgiana]

1 minute ago, VelociRapture said:

All that to say - I don’t think the Dills not appearing to babysit the Seewald boys means much. 

I agree.  When it comes to babysitters, a lot of parents try to go with as much consistency as possible for everyone's sake.  So if you end up on the lower end of the "list" of babysitters, you're likely not going to get asked unless everyone else is busy.  I see my niece nearly every day and am incredibly involved in her life, but because I live on my own and my sister lives with my parents AND adult brother (who often has his gf over), it's pretty rare I babysit just because there are 4 adults who are more readily available and know my niece's routine better.  

Jill and Derick weren't around for a time, so they likely aren't high on Jessa's babysitter list.  That's not a commentary on the Dillards' closeness to the Seewalds, it's just that Jessa has a lot of babysitter options that she's probably more used to using and more likely to ask first.  

[CaricatureQualities]

I just keep thinking of Michelle's laundry room incident--- when she had 5 kids and no sister-moms to help and she broke down doing laundry one night but hen just prayed and sang to God..and then God sent the laundry fairy friend to help out. All you gotta do is sing to God. So to a certain extent I feel like the daughters know that hard times will come in the early years like that....but their model for how to deal with it is Michelle...just dig deep, pray and sing to Jesus, slap a smile on your face and keep going. But there is also a huge difference between when M was run off her feet with 5-6 kids back in the day and all the 2nd gen kids early years....the level of scrutiny from the public and social media.

When Michelle was breaking down over laundry and having too many kids to take care of she got to do so privately. None of her children get this privilege.

Her and JB didn't start attracting attention until they were already into the double digits the the buddy system was in play. And when the early specials happened and then the show started there still was nowhere near the level of scrutiny and instant judgement that the 2nd gen must deal with today. JB and M can't honestly relate to exactly what their kids are going through now in their lives because they just didn't have to go through it when they were young and vulnerable and starting out the way their children have to yet they are the standard to look to in hard times. It doesn't seem fair. 

Like they must all be holding this standard of their parents over their own heads in regards with how to deal with things. If one of them has a hard time with one or 2 or 3 babies they probably think "oh well mom did it with X number kids and she did it, I shouldn't complain just pray harder" etc... But do they ever think "mom did what she did on her own volition and she got to do it relatively privately without ongoing scrutiny from the world and the burden of trying to be a brand which you didn't even choose for yourself". Or "mom and dad had a lot of time to themselves to settle into marriage and life and become who they wanted to be without constantly having to answer for it  or live up to some ideal publicly, that's something we'll never know".

[artdecades]

I think Jill is way too dependent and clingy to lead the type of life where Derick is out on a mission and she is home with the kids. She can’t even deal with him being at work or school away from her. 

I think she would much rather be miserable in her marriage with Derick than alone. 

[BachelorToTheRapture]

2 hours ago, CaricatureQualities said:

I just keep thinking of Michelle's laundry room incident--- when she had 5 kids and no sister-moms to help and she broke down doing laundry one night but hen just prayed and sang to God..and then God sent the laundry fairy friend to help out. All you gotta do is sing to God. So to a certain extent I feel like the daughters know that hard times will come in the early years like that....but their model for how to deal with it is Michelle...just dig deep, pray and sing to Jesus, slap a smile on your face and keep going. But there is also a huge difference between when M was run off her feet with 5-6 kids back in the day and all the 2nd gen kids early years....the level of scrutiny from the public and social media.

When Michelle was breaking down over laundry and having too many kids to take care of she got to do so privately. None of her children get this privilege.

Her and JB didn't start attracting attention until they were already into the double digits the the buddy system was in play. And when the early specials happened and then the show started there still was nowhere near the level of scrutiny and instant judgement that the 2nd gen must deal with today. JB and M can't honestly relate to exactly what their kids are going through now in their lives because they just didn't have to go through it when they were young and vulnerable and starting out the way their children have to yet they are the standard to look to in hard times. It doesn't seem fair. 

Like they must all be holding this standard of their parents over their own heads in regards with how to deal with things. If one of them has a hard time with one or 2 or 3 babies they probably think "oh well mom did it with X number kids and she did it, I shouldn't complain just pray harder" etc... But do they ever think "mom did what she did on her own volition and she got to do it relatively privately without ongoing scrutiny from the world and the burden of trying to be a brand which you didn't even choose for yourself". Or "mom and dad had a lot of time to themselves to settle into marriage and life and become who they wanted to be without constantly having to answer for it  or live up to some ideal publicly, that's something we'll never know".

One advantage that the kids (except Jinger) have over JB and M is the number of babysitters. They have the other married couples, grandma Mary, the unmarried kids/kidults, even Josie or Mackynzie could watch the kids for a bit in another room if they wanted an at home date night. And with the number of grandkids all of them who stay in Arkansas will continue to have many free, easy babysitting options around.

[nausicaa]

4 hours ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

I think Dillwank is a lot like Josh in that he may want to leave, but he won’t because he would actually have to work hard to make it happen.

To me, one difference is that Derick has a temper and a lack of public caution we haven't seen from Josh. 

Derick's Twitter rants are different from anything that Josh has done (not that I'm arguing that Josh isn't gross or a complete impetuous idiot--he totally is). Derick is lazy, but he seems to struggle with seeing the long-term consequences of things when swept up in his emotions (and he seems to be the sort of person who is swept up in those emotions a lot). So I can see him divorcing Jill without thinking about the effects of losing access to JB's money as well as losing his personal maid and cook. And he can always go home to his mom who thinks he hung the moon. 

I really think his purported religious beliefs won't inhibit him from divorcing. He is much too selfish, weak, and entitled to hew to his beliefs once they require sacrifice. 

[Coconut Flan]

Derick is SBC where they have plenty of divorced church members.  While they don't encourage it, it isn't the end of the earth type thing that it is within IBLP.  

[Dandruff]

1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

To me, one difference is that Derick has a temper and a lack of public caution we haven't seen from Josh.

I agree.  Josh at least tried to keep his BS private.  Derick seems to go for maximum public effect.