Zach & Whitney Bates Part 6: That Thing In The Window Is Creepy

[JermajestyDuggar]

I have been guessing Whitney would announce soon purely based on the fact that we know she does want to be pregnant. And since she hasn’t had fertility issues in the past, it’s a fairly obvious guess. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

 I meant no disrespect in stating my observation. 

I know there are others who feel this way, too.  But it just makes me glad I don't know any of you (who feel this way) in real life and you aren't around me to make comments about me, or my daughter, or any woman I love.  

It isn't the place of anyone to be hyper observant to the bodies of other people if you don't have an intimate relationship where their body affects you and comments are understood to be okay or if the woman asked for feedback.  

Even when it's intended to be neutral or a compliment ... have you ever been told you look great because you're losing weight by a stranger or some acquaintance at work?  Many, many women prefer to forgo the compliment to preserve the social convention that strangers aren't regularly auditing the look of our bodies. 

[Kelsey]

I think Whit is pregnant too because of her placement and matching dress with Josie. The two maidens are wearing pink, the two pregnant ones in blue on the endcaps, and Erin in the center as the anchor of the group and currently the most prolific breeder of the bunch so she gets the honor of being in the center (I think she has #4 onboard as well due to the photo shoot she just posted). 

Edited April 21, 2019 by Kelsey
ETA: none of this speculation is based off their appearance.

[VelociRapture]

33 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I know there are others who feel this way, too.  But it just makes me glad I don't know any of you (who feel this way) in real life and you aren't around me to make comments about me, or my daughter, or any woman I love.  

It isn't the place of anyone to be hyper observant to the bodies of other people if you don't have an intimate relationship where their body affects you and comments are understood to be okay or if the woman asked for feedback.  

Even when it's intended to be neutral or a compliment ... have you ever been told you look great because you're losing weight by a stranger or some acquaintance at work?  Many, many women prefer to forgo the compliment to preserve the social convention that strangers aren't regularly auditing the look of our bodies. 

One of my friends actually just shared something about this topic on Facebook. She had a random woman ask if she was pregnant. She’s not, but she does have Hashimoto’s Hypothyroidism that has caused her to gain some weight. It left her feeling pretty deflated, embarrassed, and upset because she’s been trying hard to follow the dietary changes her Doctor suggested so she can stay healthy. I told her that maybe it was that woman’s weird way of saying she was glowing and looked beautiful that day (as she always does because she’s a beautiful person), but I know that likely didn’t help her feel better. The pain was already caused because that woman simply couldn’t mind her business and keep her mouth shut. 

So yeah. While I appreciate that @AussieKrissy responded to you in a pretty polite and understanding manner, I agree with you that commenting based off appearance is just plain gross, offensive, and wrong. I really wish people would just stop doing that. 

[Bobology]

It happened to me once, way back, and it IS upsetting, actually humiliating. These families are known for their breeding as much as they are their disgusting (to me) beliefs, and this is a place where members snark about the fundies' stuff. Each time someone speculates a pregnancy based on appearance, they are given a swift reprimand but told it isn't against the rules. Just make it against the rules and be done with it, like speculation of sexual orientation. We can all carry on and have a good time without either of those speculates; there is PLENTY of stuff to snark about.

 

[singsingsing]

Just now, Bobology said:

It happened to me once, way back, and it IS upsetting, actually humiliating. These families are known for their breeding as much as they are their disgusting (to me) beliefs, and this is a place where members snark about the fundies' stuff. Each time someone speculates a pregnancy based on appearance, they are given a swift reprimand but told it isn't against the rules. Just make it against the rules and be done with it, like speculation of sexual orientation. We can all carry on and have a good time without either of those speculates; there is PLENTY of stuff to snark about.

My two cents: I personally wouldn't want it to be against the rules. I think one of the best things about FJ is that there are actually very few rules, and the community is mostly self-policing. The drawback of that is that you get topics like this where certain members don't see the issue, and others have strong negative reactions. Honestly, I think we need to just accept that that's the way it is.

When it comes to speculating about pregnancy based on appearance, I'm kind of on the fence. I personally think there's a big difference between speculating that a Duggar or Bates 'looks' pregnant vs. speculating that some random woman on the street 'looks' pregnant, and I don't think it's that big of a deal. But at the same time, I understand why others have a problem with it. I think it's kind of just one of those things where if you want to talk about it, you can, but you have to accept that others are going to fault you for it. There are certain topics or opinions I never bring up or express on FJ, not because they're against the rules, but because I know they're controversial or unpopular and it's just not worth it (for me).

[HerNameIsBuffy]

9 minutes ago, Bobology said:

Just make it against the rules and be done with it, like speculation of sexual orientation.

No.  People can do it and other people can call them out on it.

We are not going to legislate every. single. shitty.  thing. someone can think of to say.

[Bobology]

You are right, @singsingsing.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Bobology

[Ivycoveredtower]

13 hours ago, Kelsey said:

I think Whit is pregnant too because of her placement and matching dress with Josie. The two maidens are wearing pink, the two pregnant ones in blue on the endcaps, and Erin in the center as the anchor of the group and currently the most prolific breeder of the bunch so she gets the honor of being in the center (I think she has #4 onboard as well due to the photo shoot she just posted). 

Yes I think Whit is pregnant because of that hand placement and if she is I can't say I'm not happy for her because I am. I think she really wants that baby and I think with the other two slightly older she's in a good place right now. as for Erin. man I hope she isn't pregnant with four that girl needs to give her body a rest. 

 

on the topic of their shop not going to lie there were a couple of dresses on there that I wanted for myself. 

[lumpentheologie]

In the last few years I've adopted a policy of not commenting on people's appearance at all in a professional setting. It can be kind of hard when someone gets a cute haircut and I want to say I like it, but really other people's bodies (especially at work) are none of my damn business. They're certainly not there for me to evaluate them. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by lumpentheologie
pronouns that go together

[miss_batson]

 

[FaithAndReason]

I’ve been thinking Whit is pregnant, too. Not bc of how she looked but because we hadn’t seen any pics of her on IG for a while. I’m guessing she was trying to minimize the riders on the speculation bus. And looking at the pics of the girls, I’d say Erin is early in a pregnancy. She has that look I remember having where I felt “thick” (this was the way I described myself from 8-12ish weeks, so don’t attack me)  and my regular clothes still fit. 

And (I’ve said this before) I have no problem speculating about these girls from mega families and pregnancy. I would never speculate about women IRL but these families are famous for one thing: having tons of babies. If you choose to make your schtick about how many babies can you birth in a lifetime, then you also choose to have the public constantly guessing if you are pregnant again. Now, if one of them were to openly state “we will have a small family”, then maybe I’d jump off their speculation bus. But even Alyssa (who said she might like 6-8) hasn’t confirmed that they’d actually take steps to limit their family size. 

Sorry Fundies but you got famous because Babies! And you stay famous because Babies! Speculate away! 

[HereticHick]

3 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

In the last few years I've adopted a policy of not commenting on people's appearance at all in a professional setting. It can be kind of hard when someone gets a cute haircut and I want to say I like it,

Huh. If a coworker got a cute haircut, I tell them its cute.  I also tell random people in elevators I like their shoes, or whatever.  

But you are in Germany, right? In my experience, I think Americans are  more likely (for good and bad) to be "familiar" in that way.

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 hours ago, FaithAndReason said:

Sorry Fundies but you got famous because Babies! And you stay famous because Babies! Speculate away! 

Definitely.  And when not pregnant you need to stay rail thin fundies because any perceived puffiness or big lunch is fair game for us to comment on it and speculate based on your looks.

And don’t get any monthly bloat fundies!  Because if your face looks fuller or your breasts swell we will talk about it because your bodies are ours to discuss and if you didn’t want us discussing the size of your breasts compared to their size last week then you’d maintain a perfectly uniform physical look or hide yourself away so we don’t have to see you becusse we can’t help it, it’s our right to scrutinize you.

yes, fundy women, if you don’t maintain absolutely optimal and never changing physical stasis then your bodies are ours to critique.

and doing this to you, fundies, doesn’t contribute to the impossible standards that affect all women in our society and make it a place where the perfection or lack there of of our bodies is the most important thing about us!

you told them.

Edited April 22, 2019 by HerNameIsBuffy

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, HereticHick said:

Huh. If a coworker got a cute haircut, I tell them its cute.  I also tell random people in elevators I like their shoes, or whatever.  

But you are in Germany, right? In my experience, I think Americans are  more likely (for good and bad) to be "familiar" in that way.

 

I think that’s fine - haircuts are choices.  Shoes are choices - you’re complimenting someone for something they’ve done or have which isn’t nearly as intimate as commenting on their body.  

 

[VelociRapture]

3 hours ago, FaithAndReason said:

I’ve been thinking Whit is pregnant, too. Not bc of how she looked but because we hadn’t seen any pics of her on IG for a while. I’m guessing she was trying to minimize the riders on the speculation bus. And looking at the pics of the girls, I’d say Erin is early in a pregnancy. She has that look I remember having where I felt “thick” (this was the way I described myself from 8-12ish weeks, so don’t attack me)  and my regular clothes still fit. 

And (I’ve said this before) I have no problem speculating about these girls from mega families and pregnancy. I would never speculate about women IRL but these families are famous for one thing: having tons of babies. If you choose to make your schtick about how many babies can you birth in a lifetime, then you also choose to have the public constantly guessing if you are pregnant again. Now, if one of them were to openly state “we will have a small family”, then maybe I’d jump off their speculation bus. But even Alyssa (who said she might like 6-8) hasn’t confirmed that they’d actually take steps to limit their family size. 

Sorry Fundies but you got famous because Babies! And you stay famous because Babies! Speculate away! 

Except that these young couples aren’t famous due to their personal fertility. They’re famous because their parents screwed for Jesus, had way too many kids, and then sold their children's’ childhoods in order to feed them all (among other things.) Whitney herself wasn’t even raised Quiverfull - she’s an only child who had the misfortune* of somehow ending up in a religious “adoptive home”, before she met, fell in love with, and married the eldest son in a Quiverfull family. As far as I recall she and Zach have never stated they intend to have as many kids as possible and their lifestyle choices thus far hint at them being some type of Fundie, but not the specific type of Quiverfull Fundie his parents are. I really don’t see how she fits into the whole “famous for her fertility” thing at all. Maybe you could argue that for someone like Anna Duggar or Erin Paine, but I don’t think that really works with Whitney Bates or Jill Dillard**. 

*I word it like this not as an insult against adoptive families or against the Owens family specifically. I worded it that way because something obviously happened that caused her to live away from her biological parents for a while - whatever situation that was is what I find unfortunate, not the living arrangements themselves. Adoption and fostering can serve a very valuable and loving purpose when done correctly. I just want to be clear on that since I know we have posters here who have personal experience with adoption and fostering. 

**The Dillards did make a comment about having as many as God would give them during her first pregnancy. That said, to my knowledge they haven’t repeated that since then and her complicated deliveries make it increasingly unlikely they’ll be having a huge family. There’s also the fact that Derick doesn’t seem overly interested in having too many more kids either and I just have a gut feeling that the same is true for Zach. Jill might still want a big family, but I think her circumstances will likely limit her family size. So that’s my reasoning behind grouping Jill with Whitney.

[Italiangirl]

I have to say I don't see commenting like the one who started this discussion very problematic, I mean is something that capture my eays too when looked at the photo and it is a matter of fact that in the photo she look bustier, this could be pregnancy related or just picture related. From saying something like "in the photo her bobs looks bigger, so I think she could be pregnant" about someone who repetly said she want more kids to say the same to some stranger never met before in an elevator I think there is a lot. 

In my experience, people that saw me or my sister or a friend from time to time (so no close friends) says something like "oh you look bustier, thinner, fresher, tired..." and no one gets offend or blame society pressure on women body...

I don't know if I explained myself clearly is been a long day, so feel free to ask to explain better if needed. I feel like i'm missing something or i'm not explain myself clearly but i'm unable to see how change what I write to make it easier 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Italiangirl

[singsingsing]

My perspective is that they're adults, they've chosen to remain within this lifestyle, to continue to support their family, church, and cult, and to actively promote themselves to the public based on that, and to profit off of it. They could choose to speak out against it, and/or to walk away and lead private lives, but they don't. Instead, they use their fame and money to promote a very extreme, oppressive, and degrading religious and political ideology. Yes, Zach and Whitney included.

I'm not into the whole 'her boobs look bigger, I think she's pregnant' thing, but I also don't feel much sympathy for them when they're on the receiving end of it (especially if people aren't saying it directly to them). This is their bread and butter. They'd better hope people stay interested in their pregnancies and babies, because that's the only reason they're Z-list celebrities in the first place. They're fooling themselves if they think they have these huge followings for any other reason.

As long as they want to keep getting paid to shill for darling dresses on Instagram, they'd better get used to it (and by 'it', I obviously mean people speculating about pregnancies, not outright nastiness or abuse). 

[RosyDaisy]

These lunatics are actively working to strip others of their rights and want to create a theocracy. Furthermore, having large litters of kids (who are force fed the koolaid) is one of the tenants of their religion. Therefore, I don't care if pregnancy speculation is creepy or offensive. They have no problem dishing out all kinds of offensive shit of their own. So, fuck that noise! And fuck the tender hearted hand slappers. These people deserve what they get.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

For me it’s never been about protecting then.  If they come here I hope they are upset about a hell of a lot more than pregnancy speculation.

Just as an example I know many people have a soft spot for Anna Duggar.  I think she is a pathologicaly weak simpleton who is every bit as complicit in depriving her children of education and options as that half-wit failure of a narcissist she’s married to.

i believe much of how these people chose to raise their children rises to the level of abuse and she and Smuggar can hold hands while jumping off this mortal coil straight into hell as far as I’m concerned.

I have no doubt the bacteria in cheese has better critical thinking ability than Anna.

she won’t read that ...but if she did (and had someone explain to her what “critical thinking” means) I give zero fucks about her feelings.

Yet it annoys me when people monitor her body and if she looks slightly heavier than they think she should be maybe one of smuggars swimmers made it past the goalie.

(sorry - grossed myself out there with the reference to smuggars unholy emissions.)

but it’s not becusse it would offend her.  Her entire way of life offends me as a human being ...it’s what the casualness of putting each other’s body’s under the microscope does to all of us - as women.

its insidious and I call it out to draw attention to the damage it causes - because it does.

I could post pics of myself everyday for a month and let you all rip me apart about every imperfection and how I looked better Tuesday, but Wednesday looked like I gained 15 lbs because of the cut of my shirt...and ffs 2 weeks ago Friday that pic of be bloated and pmsing without makeup someone should admit me to some kind of clinic.

And i realize the comments aren’t always hateful, just observational but the ease with which we assess and critique each other in society as women is toxic and a step toward combatting that is being aware of when other people’s bodies aren’t your business.

i could say it’s my last post on this for a while but who knows - I usually avoid this place because the humpers hurt my brain ...but I don’t go around looking for this shit but if I see it I say something because I see the hyper focus on other women’s bodies as a societal shitting on the carpet.

[AussieKrissy]

I read somewhere (maybe here) about fundies thinking that Easter Eggs are satan's balls (or something like that).
I presume because they are pagan based (???) 

I did not see any easter eggs in Bradley and Kaci's Easter basket. I wonder if they believe that too....

[Vivi_music]

I once saw a Tumblr post going around that said ''Don't point out things about people's appearance if they can't fix it in a few minutes'' or something along that line. I know this quote if more appropriate for face-to-face interaction but I find it pretty wise. It essentially means, if the person has little control over it, don't point it out.

Acne, scars, weight, birthmarks, misaligned teeth, height, etc. These are things that we don't always have control on (and yes I include weight. There can be TONS of reasons why someone can have a hard time controlling their weight - either being under or overweight).

Should it be against the rules to comment on those physical aspects? No. I just try not to do it personnally for the same reasons as a lot of posters on here. I'm not comfortable scrutinizing people's bodies. But FJ members can do it and are free to do so. They also have to be aware that not all members will agree with them. It is fair game.

 

[HurricaneBells]

Yeah no, my time is best spent not caring what other people think of me. Truly not caring, its a fucking glorious state to achieve. What matters is what I think of me. Do you but i encourage people to stop waiting for the many others in the world to change their behaviour, and stop giving so much weight and power to what other people THINK. 

[Kangaroo]

Similar to what Vivi said above, I've heard completing/commenting on something that people can control about their appearance is the best way to do so.

You say their outfit looks great, or say how you like they styled their hair, as opposed to complimenting their smile or their weight. That way they feel less defensive because it's something they can control and have activity chosen. 

It's always a bit iffy with haircuts because it's very easy for them to look fine, but it not be what they asked for or expected. That's why is suggest you comment on how they've styled it that day.

On another note, Kaci in her dress is just too adorable. I've got plenty of dresses I love wearing, but I'm not sure if I love them as much as she does haha.

[Eponine]

23 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

the ease with which we assess and critique each other in society as women is toxic and a step toward combatting that is being aware of when other people’s bodies aren’t your business.

I wish I could repost this one million times. It's not about these particular women and how we look at, assess, and critique their bodies. I don't give a shit about them having hurt feefees about that. It's about how we, as a society, think we have a right to comment on and judge women's bodies, and we always find some excuse to justify doing so.

Fundie? Their whole schtick is being pregnant, so their bodily functions and changes are fair game. Celebrity? Well, they make their living on their appearance so it's fair game. Woman on the street who has a crazy outfit/is fat/is skinny/etc etc? It's just an observation, no reason I shouldn't give my personal opinion on her body/outfit/whatever. We are collectively so good at justifying how we reduce women to their bodies and clothing.

I know that a lot of those who comment about women here wouldn't do it to a random lady in the street, but it can't be hard to see how those two things are related, and in turn related to so many of the issues women face in public life.

I also don't personally find "they started it!" as a legitimate reason to participate in that kind of discussion, but I understand that some do, so I generally stay out of this topic. I just had to applaud @HerNameIsBuffy!