JinJer & Felicity 44: The Glossy Veneer is Slipping

[Rachel333]

43 minutes ago, Jinder Roles said:

Apparently Jinger and Jeremy are going live on Facebook today. Idk why. 

I'm not watching the whole thing, but it looks like they're just talking about his mother's organization.

[Snarkasarus Rex]

6 hours ago, eveandadam said:

Someone in the previous thread said that Jinger is good with being an arm candy to Jeremy. I also think JInger seems to be so submissive at this point that I feel second hand embarrassment whenever I watch Counting On. She still seems like she could be Jeremy's little sister rather than his wife. He is 7 years her senior with a university degree so that's no wonder. I still do not understand why he picked Jinger? I fear he will get bored with her eventually.

Jeremy is now a household name in Fundiedom and uses his newfound ‘fame’ to raise his own profile and hawk his mother’s charity. That came from being Mr. Jinger Duggar, not a mediocre former soccer player.  Like Boob and Derick, he’s never wanted an intellectual equal for a partner because he has to be the smartest guy in the room.  

That’s why I never got all of the Jeremy love when he first came on the scene.  He’s had an agenda from day one. 

[Nikedagain?]

On 9/23/2018 at 12:55 PM, BernRul said:

Beto O'Rourke is my current celebrity crush. 

Right?? Texas has some great young talent. (NOT including Cruz of course. Or Abbott. BLECHH)

 I'm very fangirly about the Castro twins. I'd love to see one of them make a big move. 

[Vivi_music]

So the Vuolos are in town. They really do look swell, I must admit. And I love that dress Jinger is wearing.

But hey, nice dresses and chic button-up shirt is still not an excuse to spout hateful beliefs. ?‍♀️ A part of me is also curious to know more about the Vuolo siblings. But at the same time, they didn't choose to marry a fundie celebrity so I will restrain myself and leave them a bit of anonymity.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

Jeremy’s brother (brother-in-law?) in that photo is pretty hot.

[Pecansforeveryone]

That is Jeremy's older brother, Chuck/Charles. The comments in the Instagram, sheesh. "Jeremy's always been the most mainstream of the spouses, so there's hope for Felicity." Sigh. I actually kind of see their point but that is a very low bar to meet. 

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

5 hours ago, patsymae said:

Gotta admit Jinger does look in great in all the new clothes that she said her "more fashion conscious" husband picked out for her, though.

Did she actually say that? I always got the sense that Jinger has an interest in fashion. I think I remember being mentioned at some point on 19KAC. Jinger probably has lots of opinions about clothes, and one of the refreshing things about her current headship is that he allows her the freedom to wear pants (nope, doesn't make him a good person).

Joy on the other hand isn't as interested in fashion.

[ItsMeY'all]

Holy crap. I'm off of here for something like a week and one of my favorite things comes up! I'm a total genetic geneology junkie. Is it wrong that I would love to see the variation in results of all the Duggar kids taking these DNA/ancestry tests?! The variety you could end up seeing with that many kids could be totally crazy!

Ancestry has been all over the place the last few months wih their updates. They may be narrowing down some areas but when such a large percentage of their database is from North America yet they continue to clump all Native American DNA together in a big green blob that takes up all of North, Central, AND South America you know there are issues with their programs! In theory Ancestry doesn't trace back as far as 23 and Me but who knows. Most I know prefer to take their raw DNA results from places like Ancestry or 23 and Me and upload it to GedMatch for a broader picture. Personal experience is that going through GedMatch is the best way to go for more specific results from Asia and Africa as well but it still isn't great.  I almost feel like I got a better result 17 years ago paying way too much through National Geographic in these regions...

People seem to forget or not understand that when you boil it all down, none of these sites are really doing much more than running stats based on the random mix of genes you happened to get stuck with and comparing them to all the other genetic mixes in their databases while tossing in some known variables and mutations to narrown down ancestry local. If you are looking for anything more you should consult a geneticist or genetic counselor. I often explain it to people using examples of sibling eye or hair color. I have a friend that uses the example, "If the test shows I have genes for AB blood type the program will likely narrow me down to one area in Europe and one area in Asia as it is a pretty rare blood compared to the others. The program then sees I carry a boat load of genes for more European traits like blue eyes and decided it can toss out the Asian possibility hence narrowing down some of my ancestry to, at least statistically speaking, a specific region in Europe based on the high number of others in that same region with the same traits." Seriously oversimplification and please nobody shoot me for so much generalization and oversimplification, but I've been amazed by the number of people who don't even have the remotest idea what these tests are saying. I seriously hear people complaining at least once a week that "those tests don't work because it said I didn't have any x in me but it said my sister did and I know I did and we are full siblings!" Drives me nuts!  

Personally, I've had a blast with my results. I'm a seriously global mutt as is my husband and we know it based on family history alone but it was cool to have DNA tests confirm it and comparing it to other results in our family has been fascinating. Life really is a crapshoot! Hubby and I each had a sibling (and the tests acknowledge they are full siblings) that ended up with mixes of genes that present as the most generic white Europeans you will ever meet. My blond hair, blue eyed, fair skinned sister showed no Ashkenazi Jewish, Turkish, or Native American at all (okay I think she may have shown "trace European Jewish") while those three made up 50% of my  most recent estimates. I showed 12% Norway/ Sweden, my sister came back 18%, my brother came back 10% and neither of our parents show a trace. Doesn't mean we didn't all come from the same people, just that we all got our own unique code and mine happens to be way more fun than my sister's in my ever so humble opinion! My husband had way more Native American and Asian Indian than we expected and a surprise chunk of African in his while his brother came back 95% Irish, the rest Western European. Seriously the most stereotypical Irish looking guy ever. We all laugh that my bro in law got screwed because he is stuck with a mix of genes that mean he burns after 5 minutes outside on a cloudy day while my hubby and his parents could be shipwrecked on the equator and not even get pink. 

One of my good friends is a genetic counselor and we are just nerdy enough to have tried to run stats on what our kids might look like. Realizing how different my own children could look from each other and the thought that they could be treated differently because of that is just horrifying. The idea that anyone could ever judge any person based on the random mix of crap they managed to inherit or where someone's great great grandpa "came from" is just so beyond anything. And yet it still happens in this day?!?  Illiterate pig farmers hundreds of years ago understood genetics better than some supposedly educated people today.

[SassyPants]

13 hours ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

Jeremy is now a household name in Fundiedom and uses his newfound ‘fame’ to raise his own profile and hawk his mother’s charity. That came from being Mr. Jinger Duggar, not a mediocre former soccer player.  Like Boob and Derick, he’s never wanted an intellectual equal for a partner because he has to be the smartest guy in the room.  

That’s why I never got all of the Jeremy love when he first came on the scene.  He’s had an agenda from day one. 

I'm not sure that JB every indicated that he thinks that he is the "intellectual" one between he and Michelle. I think JB is insecure and overcompensates. IMO, Michelle is brighter than JB. I think Michelle gets whatever Michelle wants.

[tabitha2]

Right? The man has always adored her and she leads the family in actuality. Once met someone who was acquainted with them and said she was the boss.

[PennySycamore]

@ItsMeY'all,  what I find funny/weird are those ancestry DNA ads that say "I grew up thinking we were German, but (according to the test) I'm Scottish."  Or Italian, but now Eastern European.  That's making too damn much of these tests.  These people need to do some real genealogical research and confirm what their heritage is.  

My daughter ordered a 23 and Me kit for her daughter from Amazon on their summer Prime Day (Or whatever it's called.  it's like Black Friday in July.)  Their daughters are adopted and I think my daughter wanted it specifically for the health info.  Their older daughter has albinism.  My son-in-law doesn't want her to do the test thinking that the results might be used against her one day.  Her younger sister has Wardenburg's Syndrome.  I'd be curious to see what the girls' ethnic analysis turned out to be.  Daughter Number One is from northern China and the Daughter Number Two is from southern China down near the border with Vietnam.  Would there be any distinction between these two girls as far as their ethnic groups?  

My dad grew up thinking that he was Irish on his dad's side.  When I was in high school, he got a nice, long letter from a lawyer in suburban Maryland  who'd been climbing the family tree.  He  and my dad were distant cousins.  Their distant ancestor had emigrated from the east of England in the 1600s or maybe 1700s.  One branch of the family eventually moved north to central Pennsylvania and another south along the Atlantic seaboard to Savannah, Georgia.  My dad's branch moved to Harper's Ferry and then across the Appalachians to Kentucky.  As the Maryland colony was once a haven for English  Catholics, I think that my dad's family might have been Catholic.  (There was a RC bishop with his last name in the Susquehanna Valley of Pennsylvania and I met a girl at the UGA Catholic Center from Savannah with our last name which is fairly uncommon.)  I wish I had that letter, but I don't know whatever became of it.  Could my dad's Kentucky family have thought they were Irish because of the Catholic roots?  Or was there some Irish in there somewhere which Ancestry DNA indicates?  The courthouse in my dad's home county burned down more than 100 years ago and the old records are fairly sketchy.

[Pecansforeveryone]

There's also overlap between similarities of culture. On my dad's side, my grandma said she was Irish. My dad she was Scotts-Irish because her family was Protestant rather than Catholic. My maiden name was Davis. I have heard many people say that's a Welsh surname. Others have said it might possibly be English. So Irish or Scotts-Irish? English or Welsh? I dont think a genetic test would help. Only genealogical research. 

[tabitha2]

http://tex-family.com/

This Gentleman is a very distant relation and has done  amazing genealogy research so I know my mothers mothers family in depth back to the early 18th century. Helps my Polish Ancestors were kind enough to write a journal of the Trip to Texas and they have a marker dedicated to them as the first settlers of a certain county. I have photos of my great greats from the 1880s and have visited the church yard where they are buried.

I had to to the research on my Mothers fathers family from scratch because no one had any information at all to give but know the basics... names, area of Poland when they immigrated, Etc.  Fascinating and strong people were my mothers fathers parents. But hard people as well. 

Dad was adopted but 23&Me says he was mostly Irish and English. That’s all there is to that side I will ever know I guess 

[SapphireSlytherin]

When you have the documented genealogical research to tie to your DNA testing (I've done multiple tests, and have undergone genetic counseling for other health issues), it makes certain relationships in one's family tree more certain (or not!!!!).

Our family line (on my dad's side) is a HUGE tree, extremely complete - WAY back (although I was called a liar on a previous genealogy thread drift); on my mom's side, it's also complete on each line WAY back, except for my maternal grandmother's father - he has such a common English surname that all roads are most likely dead ends.

We've had a couple of family members who've spent the past 30-40 years combing all records, long before the Interwebs and DNA testing were a thing. We have a family website, and an interactive tree on a genealogy site. It's fascinating, and when I retire, I'll be going to many places in England/Wales/Scotland/Ireland to access hard copies of the documents that are referenced only via mail (and later email) confirmation from curators of said info.

[libgirl2]

6 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

Right? The man has always adored her and she leads the family in actuality. Once met someone who was acquainted with them and said she was the boss.

I always thought that. She tries to hide it but she gets what she wants. 

[patsymae]

20 hours ago, VeryNikeSeamstress said:

Did she actually say that? I always got the sense that Jinger has an interest in fashion. I think I remember being mentioned at some point on 19KAC. Jinger probably has lots of opinions about clothes, and one of the refreshing things about her current headship is that he allows her the freedom to wear pants (nope, doesn't make him a good person).

Joy on the other hand isn't as interested in fashion.

I remember her saying that. It was kind of in the context of him helping her pick out clothes or having a good eye. I got the impression that she was relying on him to help her pick out "modern" clothes.

 

 

[Pecansforeveryone]

Jinger may come across an 8 year old picking out clothes because her whole childhood her parents treated her like she 8 years old. They did this while also treating her like an adult capable of raising babies. 

[farmerannie]

On 9/23/2018 at 11:30 AM, VelociRapture said:

I agree. I also think it’s important to hold them accountable for their current beliefs and actions, even while understanding that they could eventually rethink their beliefs. If they do change their beliefs down the road then that’s a great thing and I’d be more than happy to praise them for putting forth the effort to do so (even if they don’t change their views on everything.) But until then I do think they need to be held accountable and called out when they do or say despicable things, even if those things aren’t unexpected. 

(I’ve attempted to say as much in the past and have failed to communicate my point clearly at times. I’m hoping this attempt was more successful.) 

Thank you for saying this. I 100% think they should be held accountable for the awful beliefs that they have, but thank you for saying it is possible to change. I at one time was brainwashed to have those same beliefs and I feel 100% responsible that I taught my children those beliefs. But 3 kids and being horribly abused emotionally by my ex changed me. I just am grateful that my children as adults don't believe this way and are forgiving and understanding of my mistakes. 

[VelociRapture]

On 9/24/2018 at 12:48 PM, eveandadam said:

Someone in the previous thread said that Jinger is good with being an arm candy to Jeremy. I also think JInger seems to be so submissive at this point that I feel second hand embarrassment whenever I watch Counting On. She still seems like she could be Jeremy's little sister rather than his wife. He is 7 years her senior with a university degree so that's no wonder. I still do not understand why he picked Jinger? I fear he will get bored with her eventually.

That was me.

For the record, I don’t have an issue with Jinger being arm candy if that’s what she truly wants. I do have an issue with it if she feels pressured (by anyone) to look or act a certain way and I definitely take issue with her parents raising her to think she should be a submissive helpmeet.

What really concerns me though is how this could impact their parenting and how Felicity is raised. I feel very badly for everything Jinger was put through growing up and that won’t ever change, but Jinger is also now in a position of power over an innocent child. She, like her other siblings with children, is at the point in life where she could potentially* become both victim and abuser**. I feel strongly that Felicity and all the other Duggar grandchildren deserve better than their parents got when they were growing up. I hope Jinger and Jeremy (and the others) do right by their daughter and any other children they may have, but I’m also not going to be surprised if they don’t. 

*Potentially is starred, bolded, and underlined so no one mistakenly accuses me of saying this is guaranteed to happen. It’s not. The possibility is there though and I think we should be prepared for that possibility, no matter how slim it may be. 

**And abuser is starred as well because I’m specifically thinking of how her parents abused her by forcing her to be a Sister Mom and by limiting her opportunities in life. Again, I want to be clear so no one accuses me of implying anything I would never suggest. 

8 hours ago, farmerannie said:

Thank you for saying this. I 100% think they should be held accountable for the awful beliefs that they have, but thank you for saying it is possible to change. I at one time was brainwashed to have those same beliefs and I feel 100% responsible that I taught my children those beliefs. But 3 kids and being horribly abused emotionally by my ex changed me. I just am grateful that my children as adults don't believe this way and are forgiving and understanding of my mistakes. 

I think it’s possible for most people to change, though I also think some people won’t want to put in the time and effort to do so. It’ll be interesting to see which - if any - of the Duggar and Bates kids will be willing and able to put in that time and effort to change their own beliefs and ways of thinking. 

And I give you a lot of credit for being strong enough and brave enough to re-examine your own beliefs. From what I know (and based off my very limited experience) it can be a very difficult process. I think you did your children and yourself a world of good by doing so though and you should be proud of yourself. Not everyone is able to confront their beliefs like you did. 

[miss_batson]

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[SapphireSlytherin]

Grandpa is smitten with her.

[Italiangirl]

and she know it! look at her smile ??

9 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Grandpa is smitten with her.

 

[SapphireSlytherin]

@Italiangirl - for sure! And she has Jinger's nose-scrunch.

[fluffernutter]

They sure are posting a lot of endearing pics lately. ? Yeah, we get it, she's cute. But their beliefs are anything but. 

[formergothardite]

Use a cute baby to make people forget that they just admitted to believing horrific things. That poor baby will be raised in a household teaching her that hate is normal.