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JinJer & Felicity 44: The Glossy Veneer is Slipping


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1 minute ago, formergothardite said:

I got saved so many times. My "official" salvation time was when I was in preschool*. My therapist had me think back to a time in childhood when I wasn't anxious and I couldn't because from the time I was small I was almost constantly worried about the state of my soul.

Me too. Praying the sinner's prayer became somewhat of a compulsive thing for me and I was constantly worried I wasn't really saved and would go to Hell and/or be left behind in the rapture. And then I felt guilty for that fear because Christians are supposed to be confident in their salvation.

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The Duggar children used to sing something about the blood of Jesus, with one of the girls stepping forward to emphasize BLOOD. 

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25 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

 Rationally I can tell you that I don't believe in hell and that it really isn't something I should worry about, and most of the time I'm okay. But in dark periods of my life it will all come back. Hell and the Rapture, those things caused me so much anxiety. 

Yes!  I was raised pentecostal - - Hellfire and Brimstone pentecostal.  We were taught that you were only "saved" from the Fiery Lake of Hell if you didn't sin again.  And if you did sin, you were no longer "saved" - - you had to go through the whole rigamarole again.  

So, as a 7 year old, I was "saved".  As an 8 year old, an older, close family member began raping me.  And telling me how wrong I was for "making" him do that to me - - or not stopping him.  For the next five years, 4 or 5 times a week, I would be raped, and then pray for forgiveness every morning for "allowing" it.  Nevermind that I was 8 (9... 10... 11... 12...13...).  Or that he outweighed me by probably 75 pounds.  

We were also taught that Jesus could come back "at any second". A favorite song at our church:

"Jesus is coming soon, Morning or night or noon.  Many will meet their doom.  Trumpets will sound.  All of the dead in Christ shall rise, go to meet Jesus in the sky, Going where no one dies, Heavenward bound."

It was terrifying to always be looking around, making sure others hadn't just suddenly vanished.  It was terrifying being told that a stranger was going to come down and "swoop me up" into the sky.  

Many years later, here I am.  I'm agnostic.  Maybe there's a Higher Power out there.  But if so, I'm pretty sure he's not the vengeful, wrathful asshole I was taught to believe in.  

Even so, even as I'm typing this, there's this little voice in the back of my head, whispering, "But what if you're wrong? What if they were right?" 

That's how pervasive these beliefs are.  26 years after last setting foot in a pentecostal church, they can still make me doubt everything I know.  

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8 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Oh yeah. When I talked to my therapists about my childhood and how some of the first things I remember was being told that I was born sinful, worthy of hell, and that Jesus had to suffer a terrible death to save me so I better follow him and be grateful because I don't deserve anything but death and damnation, she said my various mental health issues really weren't surprising. That wasn't IBLP teachings, that was just your typical, you are born sinful and need Jesus teachings. I can't imagine teaching that to my children. 

Yeah! I still catch myself quite often saying (when something bad happens) stuff like "I know I deserve for this to happen but I don't understand....." or when something good happens "I know I don't deserve it but...." it's pretty messed up.  

3 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

As for Hell, it's hard for people who weren't raised with that belief emphasized to understand how terrifying it is and how hard it is to get over that fear when it was instilled in you from early childhood. It has been years since I was a Christian but just a few nights ago I had a weird sleep episode where I only partially woke up and I became convinced I was dying and going to Hell. It was terrifying, even after all that time.

Yeah, honestly, I'm still terrified of that. 

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To all concerned I am almost positive Jeremy will insist on a private Christian school for his children once they reach elementary.He is all about image and knows a real school  looks better to the “modern” young Conservative set he wants to attract(lead) than a Duggar haphazard howler monkey dining table approach . 

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1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

I got saved so many times. My "official" salvation time was when I was in preschool*. My therapist had me think back to a time in childhood when I wasn't anxious and I couldn't because from the time I was small I was almost constantly worried about the state of my soul. Salvation never felt natural to me and I still wonder how all those people I grew up with made it seem so easy. It was like I was always putting on a show and trying to be what I thought a good Christian should be, but I never had this deep spiritual connection that others appeared to have. Reading the Bible was never enjoyable. Praying bored me. Bible studies were torture. I spent so much of young developing years wondering what was wrong with me and worried that I was going to hell if I died. 

in dark periods of my life it will all come back. Hell and the Rapture, those things caused me so much anxiety. 

All this! You just summed me up!! This is me. 

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1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

The Duggar children used to sing something about the blood of Jesus, with one of the girls stepping forward to emphasize BLOOD. 

I think that's Washed in the Blood of the Lamb

In season 4 of Dexter, John Lithgow plays a religious family man who moonlights as a prolific serial killer. There's an episode which opens with him leading a very rousing version of that song. I miss that show, and wish it didn't go so horribly sideways after season 4.

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5 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I remember seeing the Duggars or the Bates singing that. I wonder how they would feel knowing we used to sing that during Mass when I went to Catholic school. IT was a favorite of of us kids...... 

It was the Bateses, during an early frumperlicious special.  I remember gaping at the screen.

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Ok, this has sparked a memory from decades  ago. I’d taken #1 Junior JB to Sunday School because, why not? We went to church weekly and I was always able to keep hm well entertained during the 20-minute sermons,  etc.  Maybe SS would be a good addition.

Now....A couple weeks earlier, he’d been with Big MJB when word came that BMJB’s sister had died, entirely unexpectedly. His beloved grandparents were in horrible shock and one of my sisters quickly explained that “we are so sad that Aunt Weevil is gone but she IS in Heaven so we are sad but we will see her eventually and be happy again.”

So, here we are in K-level Sunday school. and the not entirely grandmotherly teacher asks how we get to Heaven. 

#1 happily pipes up, “We die!” — and the teacher snaps, “And WHAT?!” Another child murmurs about believing in Jesus and #1 looks at me like, “Wait, what?” He and I had talked about Jesus as our best friend and God who loves us, but nothing about death  — I mean, smart kid but he was FIVE.

There were only 5 or so minutes left for the Class, so I just whispered that I’d tell him later and the teacher said it was time for a song, and responded to a little girl who’d raised her hand.

“Can we sing The Devil Song?,” the kid asked, and #1 and I both about fell over backwards — I’d been explaining to him that we can be good or we can be bad, and being bad is following the devil and the devil causes so much sadness.

The teacher agreed and everybody there but me & #1 began a bouncy tune:

”If I could put the devil in a box.... [more words I don’t remember]

I’d lock it up and I’d throw away the key

For all the bad things he’s done to me.

(chorus) I’m glad I’m a Christian [repeat 3x] and learning to love the Lord.” 

Needless to say we did not return. Privately  I told #1 that Aunt Weevil did believe in Jesus and that God loved everybody.  Perceptive & brilliant kid that he was, he somehow didn’t ask many more questions and I didn’t take any of the juniors to SS after that.  Between Lutheran day school and pretty good church services, they turned out fine.

Although...#1 is very happily married to a C&E Catholic who openly worries about my penchant for learning about other religions.  I’ve never talked with them about that crisis of belief moment in SS.  I wonder if #1 even remembers!  

 

Edited by MamaJunebug
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I remember singing “blood of the lamb” in Sunday school. But I thought we were singing by the blood of the lamp and kept imagining a lamp with blood on the sides. 

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1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

To all concerned I am almost positive Jeremy will insist on a private Christian school for his children once they reach elementary.He is all about image and knows a real school  looks better to the “modern” young Conservative set he wants to attract(lead) than a Duggar haphazard howler monkey dining table approach . 

I think so too. He's all about pseudo-intellectualism and seeming better than the rest so this fits the bill.

Also they can rely on the "Jinger has a very busy life and many responsibilities tending to the congregation as a Pastor's wife" excuse for not homeschooling. 

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The 1 year old I babysit for loves the tried-and-true Gummy Bear song and the Duck song/story. And Axel F by Crazy Frog, and Kitten Marching Band.

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1 hour ago, MamaJunebug said:

If I could put the devil in a box.... [more words I don’t remember]

I’d lock it up and I’d throw away the key

For all the bad things he’s done to me.

I had forgotten all about this song. It wasn't sang much if I remember because the first verse was about putting Jesus in a white box and taking him out and kissing him and people aren't happy about teaching kids to wish Jesus into a box. We always sang we wished we could put the devil in a little black box and we would take him out and slap his face and put him back again. That was a truly terrible song! 

I found a video of it!

Spoiler

 

 

Edited by formergothardite
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The lingering trauma and inherent abuse in the doctrine of original sin and eternal damnation ensure FJ will be here long after the Bates and Duggars tv shows are no more. When a Duggar or Bates openly rejects these doctrines I will say unequivocally I think they are free. I think the married couples using birth control and letting their children get a decent education would be fantastic.  Them rejecting eternally cruel doctrines would bring tears to my eyes. 

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I'm late to the DNA topic.  Does anyone have their results from My Heritage DNA?  Mr. Presby gave me a kit from there.  My DNA is a lot more southern European than I expected.  A coworker of mine did Ancestry DNA and hers just recently got updated too.  Now she needs to get that viking tattoo removed.  Just kidding!

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I've done MyHeritage and Ancestry. What would you like to know? The results were remarkably similar, especially after Ancestry updated my results.

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4 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I had forgotten all about this song. It wasn't sang much if I remember because the first verse was about putting Jesus in a white box and taking him out and kissing him and people aren't happy about teaching kids to wish Jesus into a box. We always sang we wished we could put the devil in a little black box and we would take him out and slap his face and put him back again. That was a truly terrible song! 

I found a video of it!

  Hide contents

 

 

Sitting here with my mouth still gaping open. Couldn’t watch  past the kissy noises. Blasphemy? I’d say so.

Thank you for posting.

*shudder*

 

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11 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

I always hear “sit on a tack” in the voices of Rod and Todd Flanders.

Better than when the Bates sang it.

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14 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I had forgotten all about this song. It wasn't sang much if I remember because the first verse was about putting Jesus in a white box and taking him out and kissing him and people aren't happy about teaching kids to wish Jesus into a box. We always sang we wished we could put the devil in a little black box and we would take him out and slap his face and put him back again. That was a truly terrible song! 

I found a video of it!

  Hide contents

 

 

This is now my favorite religious song! *joking* I am really more of a hymn person really and while I am not very conservative when it comes to religion I prefer the music to sound old-fashioned and not too fast and upbeat when it comes to Christian music. Hymns and some Christian folk- or country music is OK but if I want a faster song it has to be secular to me.

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18 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

To all concerned I am almost positive Jeremy will insist on a private Christian school for his children once they reach elementary.He is all about image and knows a real school  looks better to the “modern” young Conservative set he wants to attract(lead) than a Duggar haphazard howler monkey dining table approach . 

I chuckled at the "Duggar haphazard howler monkey dining table."  Instantly, I pictured Howler monkeys screeching and jumping around at a long table.  I've seen actual howler monkeys and it just made me smile.

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31 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Jinjer flew first class to Chicago per her instagram. 

Comp upgrade under a loyalty program, I assume. My boyfriend is only in coach half the time because he attained status by flying a few times a month. 

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10 minutes ago, Skeptic said:

Comp upgrade under a loyalty program, I assume

Since there are two of them, I'll assume they booked first class or whoever is paying for their travel does. I had one of those on the plane all the time jobs and occasionally got bumped, but there's rarely two available upgrades, especially to a hub like Chicago.

I don't begrudge them it, if I was semi-famous I'd want to just have my own row and not get harassed by whatever stranger has the spot next to you. 

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3 minutes ago, cascarones said:

Since there are two of them, I'll assume they booked first class or whoever is paying for their travel does. I had one of those on the plane all the time jobs and occasionally got bumped, but there's rarely two available upgrades, especially to a hub like Chicago.

I don't begrudge them it, if I was semi-famous I'd want to just have my own row and not get harassed by whatever stranger has the spot next to you. 

My husband flies 200,000 miles a year and has for years...yes, he flies several times a week. While he generally gets upgraded, I rarely do. I also travel a couple times a month. Plus, we travel to and from our home in So America many times a year- There is no way the Vuolos are both traveling that much.

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23 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

To all concerned I am almost positive Jeremy will insist on a private Christian school for his children once they reach elementary.He is all about image and knows a real school  looks better to the “modern” young Conservative set he wants to attract(lead) than a Duggar haphazard howler monkey dining table approach . 

I thought Jeremy was homeschooled up until high school or something. I’ll see if I can find where I read that.* (found it, link below) I think Jeremy will want his children to go to a Christian school if the school is attached to the church he is involved in.  Also, she’s “just” a girl so....

Who knows with these people?

23 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

To all concerned I am almost positive Jeremy will insist on a private Christian school for his children once they reach elementary.He is all about image and knows a real school  looks better to the “modern” young Conservative set he wants to attract(lead) than a Duggar haphazard howler monkey dining  approach . 

 

http://fundamentalists.wikia.com/wiki/Jeremy_Vuolo

“eremy Joseph Vuolo was born on September 5, 1987, to Charles and Diana Vuolo. He was the couple's third child. His parents brought him and his siblings up in Downington, Pennsylvania, where they were close to much of Jeremy's extended family.[1] Jeremy was homeschooled until the 11th grade, when he began attending Downington West High School. During his last two years of high school, Jeremy began to get involved in the "weekend party scene". [2] Jeremy played while in high school, and was named regional All-America as a junior”

Edited by TeaELSee
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