Gwen Shamblin 2: Divorce? What Divorce?

[WorseThan1Thinks]

On 8/11/2018 at 1:07 AM, RFSurvivor_2 said:

Side note:

I am proud of Hannah's ex coming out and leaving the church. It takes a LOT of courage to do so, especially him being:

1. In the RF cult the majority of his life (lifelong conditioning and brainwashing) who has a general dislike and seemingly at times, borderline hatred for homosexuality.
2. He being gay for SO long and having to deal with internal and personal family issues (ridicule, pressure etc) because of it.
3. A part of a marriage that a lot questioned (whispers I picked up whilist in the church) that even HE knew was wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if he was forced "suggested" by Gwen, leadership and other memebers into it.

He is a good young man and I am happy he has the support of his mother, who is also an awesome human being. He has good friends and a good head on his shoulders. It will be a HARD ROAD to achive stable mental, emotional and physical stability, however I believe he has the right tools and the right people to succeed in life. He is young and has so much to look forward to in his life. I wish he and his mother the best.

<<I am happy he has the support of his mother, who is also an awesome human being.

Just for context or to help explain to those who might not know the background (I don't think it was mentioned previously), his mom actually left Remnant in 2011.  His mom and dad divorced in early 2011 despite being some of the very top leaders of Remnant.  So despite all the countless jabs Remnants makes about all the divorces that happen in counterfeit churches, a pair of top leaders of Remnant got divorced.

But within a few months, his dad Joe remarried Maria and suddenly Maria is a top leader since Gwen likes husband/wife leader teams (with the glaring exception of Gwen's own husband is nowhere to be seen).  I couldn't help think how can a man get divorced, take a step huge back and examine himself and what his part was in a failed marriage (while being a top leader in a 'church' that constantly says how much stronger their marriages are, etc, etc), make sure his 4 children are healing properly from the divorce of their parents, allow wounds to heal, start dating, get engaged, plan a wedding, and get married all within a few months?  

Sound familiar?  Gwen isn't the first top 'leader' of Remnant to get remarried before the ink is even dry on their divorce papers.

And if the readers here only could appreciate and understand how much Remnant constantly talks about their 'healed marriages', how 'their families are stronger', how 'we would have been divorced had we not been in this message', etc, etc.  It's a theme that's touted constantly. 

No, their marriages are no stronger because of Remnant.  In fact (from 1st hand experience and knowing more divorces than I can count with Remnant being the root cause), Remnant is a major contributor to failed marriages and divided families that otherwise would have remained together.

 

[sajetime]

8 minutes ago, WorseThan1Thinks said:

But within a few months, his dad Joe remarried Maria and suddenly Maria is a top leader since Gwen likes husband/wife leader teams (with the glaring exception of Gwen's own husband is nowhere to be seen).  I couldn't help think how can a man get divorced, take a step huge back and examine himself and what his part was in a failed marriage (while being a top leader in a 'church' that constantly says how much stronger their marriages are, etc, etc), make sure his 4 children are healing properly from the divorce of their parents, allow wounds to heal, start dating, get engaged, plan a wedding, and get married all within a few months?

I always wondered about the first wife because I’d see her in several class videos (which she’s still in — they never bothered to edit her out! People still take those classes and can clearly see he’s married to someone else now!). I also wondered why the children stayed with the father.

[apple1]

6 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

 Clearly, TLC, the Duggars, and IBLP Gothard HQ were confident enough to not shame people and ex members for going public with their stories.

TLC likely only cares about the bottom line in terms of dollars.

As for the rest of this sentence - I guess you have missed a lot - especially the reaction of Gothard, ATI/IBLP, Alfred (Gothard defender of all defenders), etc.

[luv2laugh]

23 minutes ago, apple1 said:

TLC likely only cares about the bottom line in terms of dollars.

 As for the rest of this sentence - I guess you have missed a lot - especially the reaction of Gothard, ATI/IBLP, Alfred (Gothard defender of all defenders), etc.

Yes, I already covered that. I haven't had much sleep. I was thinking of "The Institute" formally like their written public announcements and not thinking of everything Alfred and Gothard did and said.

This clearly varies based on personal experiences but my own personal experience in interacting with fundamentalist Christian evangelicals/baptists is that they are kind and friendly to you because they think you're doomed for Hell.  They think they are showing you Christ by being nice to you even if they don't like you at all.  If you leave the church, they'll keep their distance and say they're praying for you to come back but they don't really care at the end of the day. I have never in my life heard of church members spying and reporting on each other other than Scientology and some stories of former students at Pensacola Christian College. I'm sure that spying and reporting is going on in some churches though and I just haven't heard them yet.

My Cult-Like Experience w/ a Non-Denom Evangelical Church:
There was a childhood summer camp that I went to that was run by a "non-denominational evangelical" church I went to for awhile just for the youth activities and my Aunt's family was (still IS) a member of. They all seemed run-of-the-mill, typical, mainstream Christian Evangelicals. The church took us all on a trip that they set up annually in a rural, remote area for a Bible Camp. I along with my family specifically asked about the trip, what was allowed, etc. and if I could call my family. The leader assured my family I can call anytime from her phone in private. 

 It SERIOUS change for the WORST and was one of the scariest days of my teenage years.

 The church camp had DRACONIAN rules about EVERYTHING (absolutely no cell phones, separation of girls/boys, allowing the leaders to eat first while everyone watches and waits, encouraging people to cry and break down during prayer). I truly felt like I was being held hostage by a cult.

When I complained about not being allowed to call my family after vomiting 4x one night (stress-induced), they told me that I had issues with control.

The leader of the camp told me to meet me at her cabin ALONE for dinner the next evening. She asked very personal, bizarre questions.

She took me on a secret walk and said "You see, one of the purposes of this camp is to have all of you guys GIVE UP CONTROL and OBEY AUTHORITY. You clearly have issues with control and it's Satan attacking you."

I told her I was extremely sick, weak, nauseous and wanted to go home.

She told me "If you go home, you will be making Satan proud because he will be winning. We've had kids here with strep throat. We have a nurse here with us!  There's absolutely no reason to leave. In fact, call your family up and tell them you are feeling better and not to come get you."


ALL OF MY CALLS with my family were MONITORED by her NEVER leaving my sight. I had to use CODE numbers and emergency code words to GET OUT. I was rescued when family came within the next day and got me out.  When family showed up, the leaders still insisted to them that I was in good hands and perfectly fine. 
I NEVER went back there to that youth group. In fact, we have an aunt that is a member of this church and ever since that experience, she has basically once a year contact with us now despite living 20 minutes away. I guess that's a form of shunning she's decided to enact.

[frumper-rump]

22 hours ago, RFSurvivor_2 said:

Context & Background:

Hosanna Symphony was written by Michael Shamblin over 12 years ago. The music from this album was performed several times in front of a live audience (WD and RF participants) via a musical or as he calls it "viewsical" format. It was performed at Remnant Fellowship. This song is performed by Michael in which he portrays/plays Satan (he also playes Jesus as well in the musical). So if you listen to this song, think of it being performed from the perspective of "Satan" and be prepared to be even more confused/disturbed and possibly pissed (at the hypocricy at least). This song makes me as uncomfortable as I was when I first heard it 12 years ago.

I'm a Christian (Protestant) coming out of lurkdom to say how badly that song disturbed me. I couldn't get halfway through it. It gave me the creeps even realizing the context.

[RFsurvivor]

3 minutes ago, frumper-rump said:

I'm a Christian (Protestant) coming out of lurkdom to say how badly that song disturbed me. I couldn't get halfway through it. It gave me the creeps even realizing the context.

Search YouTube for the rest of hosanna symphony or V2: Voices (his second musical) and be disturbed...

[formergothardite]

30 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

I was thinking of "The Institute" formally like their written public announcements and not thinking of everything Alfred and Gothard did and said.

I don't want to derail this thread too much, but I do want to point out this so that this won't become some sort of a myth that floats around FJ. The Institute spent decades systematically going after anyone who even thought of telling less than flattering stories about them. These were typically vulnerable teens. Family and friends were contacted and character was smeared to make the stories less believable. Of course they didn't put it out in writing, that would make it obvious. People who spoke out were labeled bitter, liars, or some other smear. If they remained at a training center their friends were told to avoid them, their family was contacted and told they were being a problem and couldn't be trusted.  IBLP survivors who watched the documentary on Scientology talked about how similar the tactics for both groups were. 

For the survivors of Gwen's cult, I hope you can look at what happened with IBLP and have hope that shining a light on evil will eventually prevail. No IBLP wasn't brought down completely, but they spent decades acting like Gwen and Co. and now Gothard is living in poverty all alone while IBLP members get fewer and fewer each year. It is hard, these organizations know how to hurt people and it is very difficult to live through that, but there is hope. It won't happen overnight but refusing to be silenced is the first huge step in ending the reign of abuse. Thank you for being willing to speak out. 

 

[luv2laugh]

I have a question . Gwen always talks about "laying down all sin" and how churches are counterfeit because they allow people to be living in sin.  Has Gwen ever spoken about Mormons and what she thinks about them?

I am very curious because Mormons also believe that we are to "be ye perfect" now, and to flee all sin to become sin-free now. They talk a lot about people not being saved if they die in their sins. I've had countless of Mormon missionaries at my door telling me this. 

[Destiny]

46 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

If you leave the church, they'll keep their distance and say they're praying for you to come back but they don't really care at the end of the day. I have never in my life heard of church members spying and reporting on each other other than Scientology and some stories of former students at Pensacola Christian College.

This is very much inaccurate in my experience. Not to belabour the point, but I can guarantee you that you are missing something. FJ is full of stories of exactly this. 

On that note, who wants to come make my dinner so I don't have to? I have all the materials, but, effort. I'll share the tortellini with you!

[luv2laugh]

6 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I don't want to derail this thread too much, but I do want to point out this so that this won't become some sort of a myth that floats around FJ. The Institute spent decades systematically going after anyone who even thought of telling less than flattering stories about them. These were typically vulnerable teens. Family and friends were contacted and character was smeared to make the stories less believable. Of course they didn't put it out in writing, that would make it obvious. People who spoke out were labeled bitter, liars, or some other smear. If they remained at a training center their friends were told to avoid them, their family was contacted and told they were being a problem and couldn't be trusted.  IBLP survivors who watched the documentary on Scientology talked about how similar the tactics for both groups were. 

For the survivors of Gwen's cult, I hope you can look at what happened with IBLP and have hope that shining a light on evil will eventually prevail. No IBLP wasn't brought down completely, but they spent decades acting like Gwen and Co. and now Gothard is living in poverty all alone while IBLP members get fewer and fewer each year. It is hard, these organizations know how to hurt people and it is very difficult to live through that, but there is hope. It won't happen overnight but refusing to be silenced is the first huge step in ending the reign of abuse. Thank you for being willing to speak out. 

 

Thanks for enlightening me and correcting me more on how the Institute functioned. It is very tragic when families bring their kids into cults and the children are the ones that end up suffering so much because that's their whole history of life as they know it. It makes me upset that you (from Gothard people) and ex RF members have had these experiences.

 

1 minute ago, Destiny said:

This is very much inaccurate in my experience. Not to belabour the point, but I can guarantee you that you are missing something. FJ is full of stories of exactly this. 

Perhaps I should venture out into Quiver Full of Snark more. I mostly have hung out in the Duggar and Bates forums. In recent years, I started following the Lori A (ugh) and JRod (blagh) threads.

[formergothardite]

6 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

I mostly have hung out in the Duggar and Bates forums.

That is the problem with those sections, it is easy to get only talk about cute babies and wedding dresses and miss that both are deeply involved with a cult that destroys lives. The Bates especially. 

[MarblesMom]

42 minutes ago, Destiny said:

On that note, who wants to come make my dinner so I don't have to? I have all the materials, but, effort. I'll share the tortellini with you!

I will be there in October sometime.... glad to cook a meal 

[WorseThan1Thinks]

1 hour ago, luv2laugh said:

I have never in my life heard of church members spying and reporting on each other other than Scientology.....

Even from the early days of Remnant, Gwen was secretly video taping and coming in between son/daughter and their own parents.

Here's a very informative (and very long, but worth the read!!) post from an ex-Remnant member back from the very beginning of the Remnant days.  This same article could have been written today because the exact same dynamics are still at work with Gwen's cult.  Really, nothing much has changed.  The only thing that changes over time is Gwen's net worth and more and more broken families.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.support.ex-cult/XIrTguuYt7c
(You have to click on that first post from Matt for the post to expand out.)

Here is a very small excerpt of the very lengthy post:  (I bolded the heartbreaking part).

Quote

I was duped into being a part of one of Gwen’s plots to destroy family
relationships for her gain. I saw placing one’s self above the law, spying on
people, “for Zion’s sake”. In October 2002, I received a call from Joe Langsdon
asking me if I wanted to be a part of a group of Remnant members who were giving
their testimonies in a meeting that was scheduled by “the enemy”. Joe said that
the “enemy” was meeting to inform non-Remnant parents of RF members that their
children were in a cult. They wanted the family to be able to recognize the
dangers of a cult.
As Remnant members (about 15 of us), we were going to go to the meeting of the
parents (the “enemy”) on Friday night, uninvited, and sit on the back row. David
Martin was going to insist that the parents listen to how their children in RF
have come out of their strongholds and are now living totally for God. I was
called to Nashville to give my testimony at this meeting because I had been a
church leader from the “counterfeit church” who “broke free”. Gwen flew me to
Nashville and as soon as I arrived, Joe Langsdon informed me that Gwen had a
change of plans, and that we were no longer going to the meeting because she
didn’t think it was a good idea. At the moment, I was “dead…no agenda”, so
whatever.
The next morning, Patrick Stites drove me to Gwen’s house. I arrived about 9:30
AM. I walked into her family room, where she and Kent Smith were in deep
conversation and barely acknowledged that I was there. I sat there alone feeling
very uncomfortable while they talked to one another. I know for a fact that many
other Remnant have felt alone in Nashville, as well, because they’ve shared it
with me.
I was totally unaware of the events that were to come: One by one, the young
adults began to show up, sitting at the feet of Gwen, listening to her wisdom
she had to share. Elizabeth showed up about 10:30 AM, saw me, and sat down on my
lap with her arms around my neck (which I was VERY uncomfortable with). After
about a ˝ hour, she got up and sat on the floor.
About 11:00 AM Saturday, with a room full of innocent young adults and Gwen’s
inner circle of adult friends, Gwen says, “OK, go ahead and put the video in.” I
was in the dark about what was to follow: For the next hour or so we all sat and
watched a video that was taped on Friday evening by about eight Remnants, Joe
Langsdon being one of them, who was the leader. The video consisted of three
hours of waiting and shooting and waiting and shooting of non-Remnant parents
and other interested people (the “enemies”). The video consisted of “the
enemies” getting out of their cars and walking into the church where the meeting
was held. Later on that evening, video shots were taken through the window of
the kitchen where they were eating during the break. After the meeting was over
at 10 PM, more shots of the people were taken getting into their cars.
How were the Remnant able to take this video without being seen? They hid behind
cars, they hid behind trees, they hid behind bushes which was done by the
approval of their leader, Gwen Shamblin.
This one incident should be enough to make anyone question why he would want to
be under this kind of “leadership”.
Every time a couple would go walking up to the church from their car, Gwen would
frantically ask, “OK! Does anybody know who these people are?! Whose parents are
they? Do you recognize them?!” If there wasn’t a good shot of their faces, we
would go back and play it over and over and over until somebody stood up and
recognized who they were. I saw one by one, these young adults’ face drop with
fear, knowing what Gwen was going to instruct them: Gwen told every one of them
that their parents are MOCKERS OF GOD and THEY were the “ENEMY”! Because of
Gwen’s teachings, many of these young adults already had broken relationships
with their family and this meeting that was attended by the parents just added
more fuel to the fire for Gwen to manipulate control over them.
After we figured out who most of the parents were, Gwen began to have fun with
the whole thing. She would poke fun at the parents who were standing in the
church kitchen. “Well,” she said, “I guess they can’t think of enough bad things
to say about me so they have to come into the kitchen and stuff their faces!”
And then she would laugh at how fat most of the people were.
At noon, Gwen told some of us to go back out to the church since they were
meeting on Saturday afternoon to try to get more video shots to see if new
people had come to the Saturday meeting.

 

[formergothardite]

What exactly would Gwen do if someone started coming to the church who just refused to conform? They wouldn't wear the colors colors or starve themselves to be thin? Would they be kicked out of the church?

[RFSurvivor_2]

7 hours ago, formergothardite said:

What exactly would Gwen do if someone started coming to the church who just refused to conform? They wouldn't wear the colors colors or starve themselves to be thin? Would they be kicked out of the church?

Its quite simple: Conform or get kicked out. 

Any sort of rebellion against the norm(s), non compliance towards authority (parents, elders, "shepherds"/deacons, leaders, Gwen), and/or any blatant disregard to the "rules" (spoken and unspoken) would be considered, "rocking the boat" by ALL members of RF. Many members look / judge a rebellious (or what they like to call, "struggling") member if they see it or "sense" it. 

In order to get to the point in which you are asked to step out and/or kicked out, certain actions that MAY be taken. These actions (the order of these actions varies from time to time, but in my experience, were rather consistent) involve:

1. Members addressing these concerns face to face with the "struggler".
2. Members reporting these issues to the member(s)'s parents/authority/sheapard/deacon/leader/Gwen. This typically happens after no "change" or acknwledgement to/for change occurs.
3. "Authorities" addressing the issue directly to the member(s).
4. Intervention-like love bombing with hints of shaming  and/or full on shaming / finger pointing. "Extra encouragement" is usually given to this person as well. They also are watched and are on a "list" of "strugglers" that leadersip keeps tabs on.
5. Unanimously voted via leadership Tribunal to be forced  asked to "step out" from regularly attending church sermons and events. This involves a "struggling", rebellious and/or "stubborn" member to be subjigated to borderline excommunication. I say borderline because these members still have the ability to webcast services from home and interact with "select" RF members. They also still maintain their Weigh Down memebership.
6. Forced Asked to take "specialized" weigh down "strugglers" classes. This a whole different story on its own, this addresses partly starvation in question.
6a. Be assigned an accountability partner(s) and possibly even temporarily live or spend copious amounts of time with a "stronger saint" or a "stronger saint and his/her family". 
7. The church member is asked to step out of the church and is removed from all communications, accounts, correspondence, directories and mentions (as much as they can). This involves Remnant Fellowship AND Weigh Down memberships. Members (those close to the individual who stepped out are usually asked first) are forced to  "recommended" to cut ties and communications with the individual in question (certain restrictions and exceptions apply). There have been some instances in which memebers (like myself before) refused to OR didn't comply with their orders. This in itself is a headache of an experience to recall to be honest.

From experience, the severity of punishment from failing to follow each of these circumstances were based on RF's emotions and the "value" of the member(s) effected rather than logic and reason. "Extreme" offenses / circumstances definitely call/have called for immediate excommunication.  All "higher RF" disciplinary actions are run through by Gwen and are ultimatley made by Gwen, with or without (mostly without) the opinons / viewpoints of the individual(s) to be effected by her decisions.

Special Note: Gossip is no stranger to RF. The majority of RF members know a lot about what is going on with each others private lives. This of course depended on which "circle" each member was in and what they heard from "whispers" of other members. I experienced more members in their "circles" / groups and "sister"/side groups being more involved with their own issues vs other "groups". Gwen and her followers tout uniformity and being  "one church body" however from my personal experience ( @RFsurvivor has a lot of experience with this as well) this is NOT the case. Remnant Fellowship is home to one of the most clickiest, gossip-prone, borderline caste/monarch system like communities that I ever been a part of. It took a WHILE for me to realize this but as I grew older and wiser, I figured it out relitively quick.

In my opinon, fear of retaliation (from leadership and Gwen) and gossip were the main drivers for the steps listed above. There are indeed people within the church who have, in my experience, showed legitimate concern for another member and his/her mental, physical and emotional state. They were able to set aside church doctrine and the hive-like mindset and connect with individuals heart to heart, human to human. Let this be known on the record: This pure, undeniable sincerity unfortunately was very rare in my experience while at Remnat Fellowship. Most of the time it was hard for me to question the motives and sincerity of the RF people because I saw through their actions and "felt" the emptiness of their words. I never fully felt sincerity from thsoe who were "praying for me" or were "concerned" for my spirit/life.

I OFTEN (almost daily) asked myself, "If I left this place and rennounced it's practices, would they still claim to love me? "Is the concern they showed for me or for others sincere?" "Will our relationship be the same if I were to depart from this place (RF)?" "Why did Miss / Mr So-and-So reached out to me but *Insert individual* didn't? "Why is everyone acting out of fear of retaliation?" "Why does everyone treat leadership like the Gods and the boogie-man?" "Why does leadership have so much power?" "Am I real?" "Who am I?" "Am I being sincere?" "Am I being a good human being?" "Am I being a good saint for god?" "Why am I so afraid of leadership?" "Why am I so afraid of Gwen?" "Why am I more afraid of Gwen than God?" 

It took asking those questions for 10+ years and leaving that place to finally put the pieces together. Their definition of love and sincerity has terms and conditions that are exclusively tied to Gwen, her leadership and the cult as a whole. Once an individual leaves, they are NEVER looked at, thought of or treated the same again by an RF member. If you speak out against the church, its beliefs and practices, you are viewed no better than a murderer, an enemy of their "god" (Gwen) and their biblical god.

[Briefly]

21 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

I have a question . Gwen always talks about "laying down all sin" and how churches are counterfeit because they allow people to be living in sin.  Has Gwen ever spoken about Mormons and what she thinks about them?

I am very curious because Mormons also believe that we are to "be ye perfect" now, and to flee all sin to become sin-free now. They talk a lot about people not being saved if they die in their sins. I've had countless of Mormon missionaries at my door telling me this. 

I would not be surprised at all if she is anti-Mormon.  She's anti-Catholic, I think that was mentioned a few pages back.  Most culd leaders seem to be anti-everything and everyone other than them.

[RFsurvivor]

Well @RFSurvivor_2 provided an almost perfect break down. My response was just going to be this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRB8Jor8tPs

 

[sajetime]

Wedding day forecast. Of course, if it rains, she’ll just say God’s crying tears of joy.

[JermajestyDuggar]

48 minutes ago, sajetime said:

Wedding day forecast. Of course, if it rains, she’ll just say God’s crying tears of joy.

Nah. He’s just peeing on the dumpster fire that will be her wedding. 

[luv2laugh]

11 hours ago, RFSurvivor_2 said:

Its quite simple: Conform or get kicked out. 

Any sort of rebellion against the norm(s), non compliance towards authority (parents, elders, "shepherds"/deacons, leaders, Gwen), and/or any blatant disregard to the "rules" (spoken and unspoken) would be considered, "rocking the boat" by ALL members of RF. Many members look / judge a rebellious (or what they like to call, "struggling") member if they see it or "sense" it. 

In order to get to the point in which you are asked to step out and/or kicked out, certain actions that MAY be taken. These actions (the order of these actions varies from time to time, but in my experience, were rather consistent) involve:

1. Members addressing these concerns face to face with the "struggler".
2. Members reporting these issues to the member(s)'s parents/authority/sheapard/deacon/leader/Gwen. This typically happens after no "change" or acknwledgement to/for change occurs.
3. "Authorities" addressing the issue directly to the member(s).
4. Intervention-like love bombing with hints of shaming  and/or full on shaming / finger pointing. "Extra encouragement" is usually given to this person as well. They also are watched and are on a "list" of "strugglers" that leadersip keeps tabs on.
5. Unanimously voted via leadership Tribunal to be forced  asked to "step out" from regularly attending church sermons and events. This involves a "struggling", rebellious and/or "stubborn" member to be subjigated to borderline excommunication. I say borderline because these members still have the ability to webcast services from home and interact with "select" RF members. They also still maintain their Weigh Down memebership.
6. Forced Asked to take "specialized" weigh down "strugglers" classes. This a whole different story on its own, this addresses partly starvation in question.
6a. Be assigned an accountability partner(s) and possibly even temporarily live or spend copious amounts of time with a "stronger saint" or a "stronger saint and his/her family". 
7. The church member is asked to step out of the church and is removed from all communications, accounts, correspondence, directories and mentions (as much as they can). This involves Remnant Fellowship AND Weigh Down memberships. Members (those close to the individual who stepped out are usually asked first) are forced to  "recommended" to cut ties and communications with the individual in question (certain restrictions and exceptions apply). There have been some instances in which memebers (like myself before) refused to OR didn't comply with their orders. This in itself is a headache of an experience to recall to be honest.

From experience, the severity of punishment from failing to follow each of these circumstances were based on RF's emotions and the "value" of the member(s) effected rather than logic and reason. "Extreme" offenses / circumstances definitely call/have called for immediate excommunication.  All "higher RF" disciplinary actions are run through by Gwen and are ultimatley made by Gwen, with or without (mostly without) the opinons / viewpoints of the individual(s) to be effected by her decisions.

Special Note: Gossip is no stranger to RF. The majority of RF members know a lot about what is going on with each others private lives. This of course depended on which "circle" each member was in and what they heard from "whispers" of other members. I experienced more members in their "circles" / groups and "sister"/side groups being more involved with their own issues vs other "groups". Gwen and her followers tout uniformity and being  "one church body" however from my personal experience ( @RFsurvivor has a lot of experience with this as well) this is NOT the case. Remnant Fellowship is home to one of the most clickiest, gossip-prone, borderline caste/monarch system like communities that I ever been a part of. It took a WHILE for me to realize this but as I grew older and wiser, I figured it out relitively quick.

In my opinon, fear of retaliation (from leadership and Gwen) and gossip were the main drivers for the steps listed above. There are indeed people within the church who have, in my experience, showed legitimate concern for another member and his/her mental, physical and emotional state. They were able to set aside church doctrine and the hive-like mindset and connect with individuals heart to heart, human to human. Let this be known on the record: This pure, undeniable sincerity unfortunately was very rare in my experience while at Remnat Fellowship. Most of the time it was hard for me to question the motives and sincerity of the RF people because I saw through their actions and "felt" the emptiness of their words. I never fully felt sincerity from thsoe who were "praying for me" or were "concerned" for my spirit/life.

I OFTEN (almost daily) asked myself, "If I left this place and rennounced it's practices, would they still claim to love me? "Is the concern they showed for me or for others sincere?" "Will our relationship be the same if I were to depart from this place (RF)?" "Why did Miss / Mr So-and-So reached out to me but *Insert individual* didn't? "Why is everyone acting out of fear of retaliation?" "Why does everyone treat leadership like the Gods and the boogie-man?" "Why does leadership have so much power?" "Am I real?" "Who am I?" "Am I being sincere?" "Am I being a good human being?" "Am I being a good saint for god?" "Why am I so afraid of leadership?" "Why am I so afraid of Gwen?" "Why am I more afraid of Gwen than God?" 

It took asking those questions for 10+ years and leaving that place to finally put the pieces together. Their definition of love and sincerity has terms and conditions that are exclusively tied to Gwen, her leadership and the cult as a whole. Once an individual leaves, they are NEVER looked at, thought of or treated the same again by an RF member. If you speak out against the church, its beliefs and practices, you are viewed no better than a murderer, an enemy of their "god" (Gwen) and their biblical god.

I am so sorry. Thank you for sharing a painful tragic experience. I have noticed that from public RF pictures, there are certain people who hang out with certain others all the time.

From what SJWaterford shared from that link above, the ex member testimony makes it seem as though Gwen uses certain scriptures for publicly calling people out for sins and shunning people. 

It really sounds like a humiliating experience. I am so sorry. 

Can you elaborate on the caste/monarch system? I’m just so baffled that people who call themselves Christians would have a system like that. Jesus said we are to love the poor and needy.

Also, I read in that ex-member testimony that they are taught to die to self and discouraged from showing emotions. The ex member said they got to the point where they were programmed not to “feel” anything emotionally. Is this true? How can someone actually be programmed to have no feelings and emotions? Correct me if I’m wrong on this but was really shocked and saddened of that ex member experiencing all this.

[AliceInFundyland]

Alfred remains one the most loathsome humans out there for me. The idea of being related to him makes my skin crawl. He’s Dracula’s Renfield.

[RFSurvivor_2]

4 hours ago, sajetime said:

Wedding day forecast. Of course, if it rains, she’ll just say God’s crying tears of joy.

"With the rain on my face
God's pain on my mind" - God's Pain by Michael Shambin

How ironic hahahahahahaahahahaha!

[SuperNova]

1 hour ago, luv2laugh said:

The ex member said they got to the point where they were programmed not to “feel” anything emotionally. Is this true? How can someone actually be programmed to have no feelings and emotions?

Although I'm not ex-RF or any cult, the answer is most definitely yes. It's not an exaggeration to say that my early childhood years were "cultish". I had a highly abusive father who's punishment was akin to torture. Emotions were heavily frowned upon and being viewed from outside as the perfect family was paramount. I don't know about programming in later years but growing up this way made it possible to simply not feel anything. When the response to emotion is negative or painful, you learn quickly to show nothing. Pretty soon, you don't even feel it to begin with. Emotion was weakness in my father's eyes. 

I was talking to a friend of mine about my childhood trauma and she said, you must have always been so scared. I surprised myself by saying no. We were like little rabbits. Rabbits aren't scared all the time. They're cautious. 

[sajetime]

8 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

I am so sorry. Thank you for sharing a painful tragic experience. I have noticed that from public RF pictures, there are certain people who hang out with certain others all the time.

From what SJWaterford shared from that link above, the ex member testimony makes it seem as though Gwen uses certain scriptures for publicly calling people out for sins and shunning people. 

It really sounds like a humiliating experience. I am so sorry. 

Can you elaborate on the caste/monarch system? I’m just so baffled that people who call themselves Christians would have a system like that. Jesus said we are to love the poor and needy.

Also, I read in that ex-member testimony that they are taught to die to self and discouraged from showing emotions. The ex member said they got to the point where they were programmed not to “feel” anything emotionally. Is this true? How can someone actually be programmed to have no feelings and emotions? Correct me if I’m wrong on this but was really shocked and saddened of that ex member experiencing all this.

Yes, Remnant members are taught to die to self and to embrace one’s suffering. There is to be no grumbling or complaining. They don’t believe in depression (or antidepressants) — you just better snap out of such “self-focus” and plaster a smile on your face. You are told to “flip” any potentially negative situation/emotion (Remnant-esque example: If your husband corrects you because the house is a mess — well at least you have a husband and a house to mess up and kids who cause messes). And you are to show nothing but joy and happiness at all times — no matter how phony, robotic and superficial it comes across. 

[NotSkeered]

52 minutes ago, sajetime said:

Yes, Remnant members are taught to die to self and to embrace one’s suffering. There is to be no grumbling or complaining. They don’t believe in depression (or antidepressants) — you just better snap out of such “self-focus” and plaster a smile on your face. You are told to “flip” any potentially negative situation/emotion (Remnant-esque example: If your husband corrects you because the house is a mess — well at least you have a husband and a house to mess up and kids who cause messes). And you are to show nothing but joy and happiness at all times — no matter how phony, robotic and superficial it comes across. 

This really is sad. I mean NO ONE likes to feel down ~ but sometimes in growth .... especially in faith as well as life, there comes times when we realize everything is not hunky dory. Change is hard. And going through those emotions ... simply only help one to grow.