Boyer Sisters Part 7: One Still Creative

[nelliebelle1197]

17 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

They listen to Oly Murrs? Colour me shocked!  

They got confused - they thought he was Murrs Oily Essentials - vintage-style accessories for your essential oil business.

[apandaaries]

3 hours ago, seraaa said:

The idea of Protestant appropriation of Paddy's Day via the colours of the Orange Order is just very, very funny.  "Both sides of this holiday". BOTH SIDES. As if Protestants in Belfast were celebrating St Patrick's Day (I mean, now, maybe, but they ain't wearing orange).

A friend of mine, who grew up here in California, had a father who wouldn't let any of his daughters wear green on St. Patrick's Day; he made them all wear orange because they were Protestants. Apparently they used to all come home from school with a lot of bruises from pinches in their elementary school years.

[seraaa]

16 minutes ago, apandaaries said:

A friend of mine, who grew up here in California, had a father who wouldn't let any of his daughters wear green on St. Patrick's Day; he made them all wear orange because they were Protestants. Apparently they used to all come home from school with a lot of bruises from pinches in their elementary school years.

That is wild. I don't understand why he'd do that, and what happened is why I don't understand why he'd do that. Why subject your kids to the messy politics of all that? 

And it's so obnoxious, for one thing. Just don't celebrate, like other people who don't identify with it do. 

 

Edited June 13, 2018 by seraaa

[ViolaSebastian]

25 minutes ago, apandaaries said:

A friend of mine, who grew up here in California, had a father who wouldn't let any of his daughters wear green on St. Patrick's Day; he made them all wear orange because they were Protestants. Apparently they used to all come home from school with a lot of bruises from pinches in their elementary school years.

My first reaction to that outfit was that it was a good way to get on the business end of someone’s fist. If it wasn’t already clear these ladies aren’t frequenting the bars or parades on St. Patrick’s Day, wearing orange like that leaves little room for doubt. What a pointless display that makes her, frankly, look like an asshole for delving into some *nasty* politics on a day meant to be a celebration (in the U.S., anyway). Maybe it’s my memories of spending summers in the U.K. during the troubles, but I just have no patience for playing up religious factionalism that has resulted in many, many people’s death, and to do it as a “fashion statement.” Appalling, really. 

[Carm_88]

More vaguestagramming!  

[refugee]

1 hour ago, apandaaries said:

A friend of mine, who grew up here in California, had a father who wouldn't let any of his daughters wear green on St. Patrick's Day; he made them all wear orange because they were Protestants. Apparently they used to all come home from school with a lot of bruises from pinches in their elementary school years.

Maybe the orange and green thing is more of a US thing, because we had the “privilege” of reading about the Troubles but not living then? My mom didn’t try to stop us from wearing green, but it was when I was searching for something green to wear to elementary school one St. Patrick’s Day, she let slip some of her family history, a rare occurrence. I found out she was raised “orange” Irish, and had cousins she wasn’t allowed to talk to because they were “the other kind.” She married a guy with “green” Irish in his background (among other things. Someday I might do that ancestry.com out of curiosity. Is it any good?). I wonder if that alienated her from some of her family?

I know she cut her father out of her life before she met my dad (not religion or politics, but the guy was an alcoholic from the little bit I know) and her father was the Irish component in her background.

Sad to contemplate.

Edited June 13, 2018 by refugee
Groggy

[catlady]

4 hours ago, charmedforsure said:

BEC here, but damn. That outfit screams Bag Lady Chic.  Just because it's green, doesn't mean it goes together.

Maybe it's a good thing Jess and Char don't have to worry about their wardrobes now that they have those color palettes for their personal energy style... *facepalm*

while i like all of the parts of her outfit, the mash-up doesn't work for me.  the boots and headwrap go together, but they clash terribly with the cardigan (at least according to my monitor; i see them as teal and kelly green) and are too "winter" when all of the other items say "spring" to me; they'd be just fine with leggings and a tunic sweater.  the skirt and belt go together, but they're too casual for the blouse; a knit top or camisole would look better.  the sweater is nice--i have about a dozen similar ones--but i'd go with more of a sage green with the skirt.  the blouse is pretty, but it's not my style, especially buttoned up to the collar.  it would look better with a solid-color (any solid color) pencil or A-line skirt and dressier shoes; it simply doesn't work with the bohemian vibe of the skirt and belt.  i love the skirt; i'd wear it in a minute.

this is thoroughly BEC and JMHO, so feel free to disagree, but with very few exceptions*, white/ivory tights look better on children than on adult women.  Jessica's incarnation of her outfit would look better with nude hose or bare legs (i know, i know, Modesty!).  as much as i like Brigid's clothes on her new blog, i would like her look even more if she ditched the ivory tights.

*one of the few times i've seen them look nice on an adult was my coworker last winter who wore ivory tights with brown boots and a knee-length brown dress.

[ViolaSebastian]

48 minutes ago, refugee said:

Maybe the orange and green thing is more of a US thing, because we had the “privilege” of reading about the Troubles but not living then? My mom didn’t try to stop us from wearing green, but it was when I was searching for something green to wear to elementary school one St. Patrick’s Day, she let slip some of her family history, a rare occurrence. I found out she was raised “orange” Irish, and had cousins she wasn’t allowed to talk to because they were “the other kind.” She married a guy with “green” Irish in his background (among other things. Someday I might do that ancestry.com out of curiosity. Is it any good?). I wonder if that alienated her from some of her family?

I know she cut her father out of her life before she met my dad (not religion or politics, but the guy was an alcoholic from the little bit I know) and her father was the Irish component in her background.

Sad to contemplate.

Wearing orange is a reference to the Orange Order, a Protestant organization that played a role in the partition of Ireland, among many other things. It's a hard topic for me, and honestly my stomach is clenched up a bit from writing all this because it's  emotionally charged for me and I don't want to inadvertently insult or upset anyone, because I know how touchy a subject it is.

One of my memories from being a fairly young kid was being on a plane headed to Gatwick in the late 1980s which was full of children from Northern Ireland who had been participating in a program that brought them to the U.S. to give them a bit of a break from all that was going on at the time. I'll never forget how upset those kids were and it breaks my heart--they were scared to go home. Awful. 

 

[Carm_88]

I cringed when I saw Charlotte wearing orange. It's clear that they just see it as showing that they are Protestant. It's not. 

Spoiler

 

I'm going to drop it under a spoiler, but this song makes me cry every single time. It's so much deeper than what Charlotte and Jessica think. 

[usedbicycle]

Hold on... if  Charlotte's in the back seat and Jessica is in the front passenger seat, who is driving??

They're trying to appear modern and independent on a #sistersroadtrip, but we all know Clancy's umbrella of protection is still hovering above.

 

 

[catlady]

i would assume it's their mom; she would have had to take the jumping photo too.  one would think that Clancy could trust Mrs. B to look over her own adult children, unless he took a vacation to tag along and hover over them.

[Carm_88]

Mrs. Boyer driving her daughters across the country, for their oily convention. What a terrible mother. It's a wonder that she didn't convert to Catholicism when she saw that shrine!  *sarcasm* 

*I know, I know, it can be all a lot deeper than that! 

[usedbicycle]

You're right, it's probably their mom who sells oils herself. Still a bitch move not to mention her at all, I'm sure she did most of the driving. Google maps says 24hrs from Cinci to Salt Lake City... that's a crazy drive.

[catlady]

@ViolaSebastian, I almost missed your post but i’m glad I read it. I know very little about the Orange Order, so i’m going to do some reading this evening. 

And Charlotte’s understanding of wearing orange is right on par with her understanding of the natural hair movement. 

[hoipolloi]

Would be nice to see -- oh, I don't know -- a sincere "Thank you, Mom!" if Mrs. Boyer is indeed driving them there.

Probably expecting too much.

[Palimpsest]

4 hours ago, refugee said:

Maybe the orange and green thing is more of a US thing, because we had the “privilege” of reading about the Troubles but not living then?

It possibly depends where you are in the USA.  I don't think I'd advise anyone to wear even a hint of orange anywhere in Boston, let alone in Southie, on St. Patrick's day.  Forcible dining on a knuckle sandwich might be the least you would get.

As for the Boyers and their green and orange outfits, they were just being their usual shallow and ignorant selves.  They didn't intend to be "divisive" just fashionable and cute.  I doubt they have developed much more understanding of the Orange Order even today.

2 hours ago, catlady said:

I know very little about the Orange Order, so i’m going to do some reading this evening. 

Bottom line, the Orange Order stinks.  It is divisive, deliberately provocative, and should be disbanded with prejudice.  IMO.

[zeebaneighba]

18 hours ago, Shoobydoo said:

I google they Boyer sisters so I could show @zeebaneighba the wedding pics and now Pinterest is constantly throwing Boyer sister posts at me. I regret my decisions. 

Hey, it was YOUR decision.  Keep me out of it! 

[refugee]

3 hours ago, catlady said:

@ViolaSebastian, I almost missed your post but i’m glad I read it. I know very little about the Orange Order, so i’m going to do some reading this evening. 

And Charlotte’s understanding of wearing orange is right on par with her understanding of the natural hair movement. 

Yes, @ViolaSebastian, adding my thanks. I didn’t mean that US descendants of Irish immigrants had originated the “orange vs. green” but that it had played some role in my mom’s family dynamics. She talked about “Orange Irish” that time but never really explained the significance to me when I was little. It just stuck with me all these years in the background, surfacing when this came up in the Boyer topic.

At the time, the only significance I would have taken from what she said would have been a feeling of “How sad not to be allowed to talk or play with some of your cousins!”

Edited June 13, 2018 by refugee
Interrupted when posting

[nastyhobbitses]

My boss is from Northern Ireland. I'm not quite sure which "side" he is (it doesn't really come up and I'd rather not ask him unless he explicitly brings it up), but he was clearly very much affected by the conflict and can't stand divisiveness and bigotry, because he witnessed firsthand throughout his childhood and adolescence what it did to his community. And on a more pop cultural note, nothing broke my heart quite like David Tennant's episode of Who Do You Think You Are when he finds out that some distant relatives of his are very active members of the Orange Order, and he is visibly uncomfortable and upset by it. I don't think it's quite on the level of finding out that you have relatives in the KKK, but I guess it's approaching that, judging by his reaction. 

The Boyer girls' weird obsession with pointing out how NOT CATHOLIC they are probably hides some ideologies that would help them fit right in at an Orange Order asshole jamboree. 

ETA: Also, Gary Young (founder of the oil pyramid scheme they're obsessed with) drowned his newborn daughter during delivery in 1982 and spent his entire weaselly existence defrauding more fundies than Chad Paine in a Frank-N-Furter costume. I'm glad he's dead. 

Edited June 13, 2018 by nastyhobbitses

[AliceInFundyland]

It’s fairly disturbing to find out you had a relative in the KKK.

So my maternal grandma (a tolerant, loving, Christian woman) casually told me the story of how her father briefly joined the local group when they moved as it had become something of a social organization by then. This was Kansas in the mid 1930s. He quickly became disillusioned with their policies and stopped going, thank goodness. I was still horrified. She gave me his membership coin.

Totally bizarre for me to reconcile that with my completely Jewish other half.

[MargaretElliott]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

I don't think I'd advise anyone to wear even a hint of orange anywhere in Boston, let alone in Southie, on St. Patrick's day.

Can confirm. My SO is Southie Irish. He no longer lives there, and he actually hates St. Patrick's Day, but he'd still give someone wearing orange an earful... a very grumpy one, with a glass of good whisky in hand.

I, too, hesitate to use the term "basic bitch" because 1. gendered slurs suck, and 2. let people like what they want... but those are some hella basic instagram posts. Except the church, which is freaking beautiful. But the vagueposting and the trying to sound deep and the cute quotes and excessive hashtags and emojis... just kind of rubs me the wrong way. Like, going to a convention is interesting, and maybe I'm just judging because I'm morally opposed to pyramid schemes, but it seems rather immature to me. Like, I'd post quotes like that when I was in high school.

Now I mostly post pictures of fancy cocktails I make, dumb jokes, and my office dog. Hell, maybe Charlotte and Jessica would look at my posts and judge them for conspicuous alcohol consumption and inappropriate humor, to which I say.... eh, that's fair.

[mango_fandango]

Man, I had no idea about the wearing of green versus orange. I’ve vaguely heard of the Orange Order, though. I really don’t know much about Ireland, either the North or the Republic. I don’t think I’ve even met that many Irish people, except for the headmistress at my secondary school who was from Belfast. She certainly didn’t mention anything about the Troubles ever. I was a few weeks off turning three when the Good Friday Agreement was signed, except of course I wouldn’t have had any idea what was going on in the world! 

That outfit photo (one with the green cardigan): to my amateur eye it looks somewhat OK, except for the clunky boots. It’d look better with ballet pumps or similar non-clunky shoes.

[ViolaSebastian]

I have two something-greats-grandfathers (it was a father/son duo) who were heavily involved in the KKK. Many of their papers have been preserved by a local historical society because they're correspondence that deals with issues related to the organization. Their donation caused a huge fall-out in the family between people who felt it was a part of history and should be documented and preserved for learning/scholarly/teaching purposes and those that felt that the secret should die with the family. I found about all this as an adult, but it didn't shock me terribly due to already knowing their political background and putting two and two together. It is incredibly bizarre, but before I knew of their involvement, I had to accept the fact that I had relatives who fought for the Confederacy, and I tried to come to terms with this knowledge in a similar way. It took a lot of coming to the conclusion that I can only be responsible for my own actions, while acknowledging and apologizing that my ancestors caused others considerable pain and hardship. I just try to do the best I can to conduct myself in a way that honors my own values, which causes me to deeply abhor what they've done. They were divisive, racist monsters, but I won't be. 

Edited June 14, 2018 by ViolaSebastian

[Lisafer]

17 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I have two something-greats-grandfathers (it was a father/son duo) who were heavily involved in the KKK. Many of their papers have been preserved by a local historical society because they're correspondence that deals with issues related to the organization. Their donation caused a huge fall-out in the family between people who felt it was a part of history and should be documented and preserved for learning/scholarly/teaching purposes and those that felt that the secret should die with the family. I found about all this as an adult, but it didn't shock me terribly due to already knowing their political background and putting two and two together. It is incredibly bizarre, but before I knew of their involvement, I had to accept the fact that I had relatives who fought for the Confederacy, and I tried to come to terms with this knowledge in a similar way. It took a lot of coming to the conclusion that I can only be responsible for my own actions, while acknowledging and apologizing that my ancestors caused others considerable pain and hardship. I just try to do the best I can to conduct myself in a way that honors my own values, which causes me to deeply abhor what they've done. They were divisive, racist monsters, but I won't be. 

I'm sure everyone in the world has had ancestors who have done something terrible at one point or another. What matters is who you are, not who your ancestors were. I had ancestors on both sides in the Civil War; it never occurred to me to be upset about being related to Confederate soldiers, because I was not there and had no control over their decisions. It was what it was. Sharing DNA with someone doesn't make you responsible for their crimes. 

What matters is that we, ourselves, try to be good people 

[FilleMondaine]

4 hours ago, AliceInFundyland said:

It’s fairly disturbing to find out you had a relative in the KKK.

So my maternal grandma (a tolerant, loving, Christian woman) casually told me the story of how her father briefly joined the local group when they moved as it had become something of a social organization by then. This was Kansas in the mid 1930s. He quickly became disillusioned with their policies and stopped going, thank goodness. I was still horrified. She gave me his membership coin.

Totally bizarre for me to reconcile that with my completely Jewish other half.

I think you certainly CAN reconcile that, because it seems that your grandfather had the good sense (and the honest heart) to leave such an organization upon learning the nasty-parts. It is great to have a role model who can show you how to learn from mistakes and make better choices.