Joy & Austin 20: Baby Gideon is Here

[Beermeet]

22 minutes ago, Fascinated said:

I am going to go to bed soon but, guys, come on.  My second word was ‘pome’ which should have been a clue. I am sorry that my post came off as sincere. The only part that was was the ‘cute poem’ bit. I really need to learn that not everyone will recognize my sarcasm, tonight based on previous posts. Doesn’t matter. I apologize to those who were offended. If you see me around, please remember me. I often write this way. I usually manage to get my point across.  Not tonight. Goodnight, FJ. Oh my god. 

It's all good!  I was being sarcastic with the " I am right, aren't I?".  That's how obvious it was!  It's not your fault two people got all crazy for reals. No worries mon, have nice sleep.  Best part of the 24 hour cycle:)

ETA:  pome was dead giveaway for all Jrod followers 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

3 hours ago, Fascinated said:

It can be a beautiful thing. When it isn’t, and it so often isn’t, I tend to blame the MIL. Sometimes they have a hard time letting go. When your son marries, his wife must become his primary concern, and I think that’s hard for some mums to accept. But sometimes the issue lies with the daughter-in-law. And, of course, sometimes their husbands cannot navigate the strife and make matters worse.

i don’t really know where I’m going with this. I will never be the mother of a daughter.  So I must rely on having a great relationship with my sons’ wives. I’m so lucky to have that.  It hurts to read posts about mothers-in-law with regards to seeing their grandchildren. But I understand. We aren’t your mums. 

In some cases, a mom and son may just have had a difficult relationship. My dh and his mum have mended theirs somewhat, but it has taken work. I'm glad you have a great relationship with one dil and a respectful one with your ex-dil. 

3 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

My MIL's first words to me were, "Why in the world would you marry a loser like him?"

It went downhill from there.

Yikes! Mine wasn't that bad, but there was a little delicate "sounding out" along the lines of, "you do know what you're getting into, don't you?" The funny thing is, he says that some of my family members asked him pretty much the same thing! 

29 minutes ago, Fascinated said:

Oh my god. Where is the sarcasm font?  Seriously?  

I laughed my head off.  This is for you, for next time:

Spoiler

 

[Fascinated]

Haha. I needed that. What a kerfuufle. Little ol’ me. Shit disturbing like nobody’s business. 

[Beermeet]

3 minutes ago, Fascinated said:

Haha. I needed that. What a kerfuufle. Little ol’ me. Shit disturbing like nobody’s business. 

Those Canadian terms got us all fired up!  We just need to try it out is all.  Wrap our heads around shit disturbing.  Somehow different the shit stirring.... 

[JillyO]

You are such a shit disturber, Fascinated! And yes, I wrote this post solely so I could use my new word. Thanks, Canada! Rufus bless!

[Fascinated]

As a Canadian, I am allowed to disturb the shit. However, as can be seen, I will apologize for doing so. 

[singsingsing]

Guys, it’s been a weird couple days. But I think we all have a better understanding now. I love you all. Also I have a nasty cold and am slightly feverish and I think that extra strength Advil is kicking in. Goodnight! 

[bal maiden]

5 hours ago, Shadoewolf said:

Funny this comes up as this evening while I was looking for something else, I ran across photos of me sitting cross legged holding Middle Wolfie just hours after her rather tough vaginal birth. She wasn't heavy per se but she had really broad shoulders. 

With the birth pool comment I hope for all of them that it wasn't an emergency transfer.  Based on one of Amy's pics though, perhaps he was forceps? Which with a 10 pounder, owch!! Hope she had good drugs!

Good catch, I didn’t see those lines before. 

[Edhelfin]

6 hours ago, Fascinated said:

*snip* The fact that I have been logged on here most of the day does not negate the fact that these list makers are pathetic human beings.

Never mind the fact that being automatically logged on FJ on the phone and reading the forums during a boring commute on the train, a solitary lunch break or while sitting on the toilet takes less effort and precious time than doing research and applying it on spreadsheets, even when done daily.

To each his own I guess. Just do not whine when the interest shown in these fundies leads to a wider media presence, influence and reach for them - i.e. encouragement and self confidence they will have to record another transphobic robocall or start a political campaign for someone like Santorum. Because they KNOW that they have the platform. So does TLC.

And some people wonder why Duggars are still on?

I will continue to annoy quasi-leghumpers about this subject from time to time, sorry about that. So ignoring me might be a good option. When a Duggarling comes to FJ I would like them to read the criticism rather than think "awww these people are so obsessed with us, they even dedicate their valuable time to make spreadsheets about our kids! We ARE famous! Let's use it to reach more people for our mission!". I wish I had more time to write more critical stuff about them, but I do not. Hope they stumble upon one of the negative ramblings I humbly contribute to, from time to time. Hopefully they will be discouraged from their actions and expressing their ideas to a wider crowd. Hopefully the interest shown in them will fade into negativity and eventually die down.

Do YOU want it to die down? Be honest.

I remember a discussion from Ashley Madison times along the lines of "so the show will now be cancelled - what will we do?!". It was scary to see how many people wanted their 'guilty pleasure' to stay on air. Of course it does not mean they love the Duggars, they fancy Jim Bob etc - but it is obvious that they love the entertainment Duggars provide. That is what Duggars need anyway! They are TV figures. Being good entertainers means good money coming in. Duggars will not change. Why would they? They express themselves and get attention. Obviously to them it means "God is seeing what they are doing and approving". Keep feeding them and they will carry on like this. The best one can hope is to cut off their outreach so they cannot influence people to think like them.

My opinion is that if being nice to people who want to oppress you worked, fundies, bigots, extremists, racist cops who target minorities and asshole politicians could simply be chased away by a honey flytrap and a gentle whisper.

Bring on the dead parrot emoticons, those are my favourite, alongside the stinky eye the 'bless your heart' icon has and the passive aggressive smile on the 'fuck you' icon. The colours also make my entry stand out on a page (Hi Jill! Hi Derick! You suck). Whoever did those is quite talented

 

[mollysmom]

14 hours ago, JesSky03 said:

? Just had a vag birth and nothing about this picture screams c section to me. I did notice she is sitting cross legged on the bed- would that be comfortable if she just had a section? 

That's what I was thinking....would she be able to sit like that with her legs crossed if she just had a csection? I've never had one but I did have a hysterectomy and I definitely could not sit like that for a while!

[HarleyQuinn]

10 hours ago, Shadoewolf said:

Funny this comes up as this evening while I was looking for something else, I ran across photos of me sitting cross legged holding Middle Wolfie just hours after her rather tough vaginal birth. She wasn't heavy per se but she had really broad shoulders. 

With the birth pool comment I hope for all of them that it wasn't an emergency transfer.  Based on one of Amy's pics though, perhaps he was forceps? Which with a 10 pounder, owch!! Hope she had good drugs!

Is that normally what forceps marks look like? My doc never had to use them.

[tabitha2]

I swear I thought  that Onsie said Little Duggar at first... 

[gameofunbeknowns]

3 hours ago, Edhelfin said:

Never mind the fact that being automatically logged on FJ on the phone and reading the forums during a boring commute on the train, a solitary lunch break or while sitting on the toilet takes less effort and precious time than doing research and applying it on spreadsheets, even when done daily.

To each his own I guess. Just do not whine when the interest shown in these fundies leads to a wider media presence, influence and reach for them - i.e. encouragement and self confidence they will have to record another transphobic robocall or start a political campaign for someone like Santorum. Because they KNOW that they have the platform. So does TLC.

And some people wonder why Duggars are still on?

I will continue to annoy quasi-leghumpers about this subject from time to time, sorry about that. So ignoring me might be a good option. When a Duggarling comes to FJ I would like them to read the criticism rather than think "awww these people are so obsessed with us, they even dedicate their valuable time to make spreadsheets about our kids! We ARE famous! Let's use it to reach more people for our mission!". I wish I had more time to write more critical stuff about them, but I do not. Hope they stumble upon one of the negative ramblings I humbly contribute to, from time to time. Hopefully they will be discouraged from their actions and expressing their ideas to a wider crowd. Hopefully the interest shown in them will fade into negativity and eventually die down.

Do YOU want it to die down? Be honest.

I remember a discussion from Ashley Madison times along the lines of "so the show will now be cancelled - what will we do?!". It was scary to see how many people wanted their 'guilty pleasure' to stay on air. Of course it does not mean they love the Duggars, they fancy Jim Bob etc - but it is obvious that they love the entertainment Duggars provide. That is what Duggars need anyway! They are TV figures. Being good entertainers means good money coming in. Duggars will not change. Why would they? They express themselves and get attention. Obviously to them it means "God is seeing what they are doing and approving". Keep feeding them and they will carry on like this. The best one can hope is to cut off their outreach so they cannot influence people to think like them.

My opinion is that if being nice to people who want to oppress you worked, fundies, bigots, extremists, racist cops who target minorities and asshole politicians could simply be chased away by a honey flytrap and a gentle whisper.

Bring on the dead parrot emoticons, those are my favourite, alongside the stinky eye the 'bless your heart' icon has and the passive aggressive smile on the 'fuck you' icon. The colours also make my entry stand out on a page (Hi Jill! Hi Derick! You suck). Whoever did those is quite talented

 

So what’s the alternative? Falsely painting human beings in a uniformly negative light? Pretending that they can’t have cute babies while holding hateful beliefs? The most effective criticism requires more thought and is more nuanced than that.

Also, it seems to me that spreadsheets aid in criticism. They are a source that can be referenced when discussing the harm of the quiverful ideology. The most useful criticism is an accurate one.

[tabitha2]

IMO Edhelfin is a more well spoken troll and He, she or it is liking the attention.

[Million Children For Jesus]

I view the Duggars the same way I view a National Geographic program. When I watch them, there is a voice over in my mind that says things like, “and here we see the Duggar in its natural habitat, they live in colonies and have one to eight babies at a time...” 

I love ethology and anthropology. My daughter is a research biologist. She gets her love of spreadsheets from me, which is a good thing because her grants depend on taking accurate and detailed data. I love all the spreadsheets that people keep and think they are an important part of understanding the fundie culture. 

 

[Otto Titsling]

49 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Is that normally what forceps marks look like? My doc never had to use them.

They can leave marks, bruises, do nerve damage, break bones, and worse. That’s why they were largely abandoned in the seventies. The suction cup on the scalp is usually the first approach now, but forceps have never completely been done away with. Besides, in certain situations, they can be life saving if baby is stuck very low in the birth canal. 

 

 

I read the voice over parts in David Attenborough’s voice @Million Children For Jesus  I don’t know how I got the words above your quote, but look down. 

10 minutes ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

I view the Duggars the same way I view a National Geographic program. When I watch them, there is a voice over in my mind that says things like, “and here we see the Duggar in its natural habitat, they live in colonies and have one to eight babies at a time...” 

I love ethology and anthropology. My daughter is a research biologist. She gets her love of spreadsheets from me, which is a good thing because her grants depend on taking accurate and detailed data. I love all the spreadsheets that people keep and think they are an important part of understanding the fundie culture. 

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Ugh. Just the thought of delivering a 10 pounder vaginally. 

[Fascinated]

Good morning, FJ!  It’s a lovely day. For the record, I have just gone through last night’s debacle thread and changed all of my ‘I agrees’ to ‘thanks’, which is what I meant in the first place. I always seem to get those two little fuckers mixed up.  Just me?

[treehugger]

I may be wrong, but I believe weight has less to do with difficulty delivering, than head size. My 6lb 12oz daughter was a 30 hour labour and delivery, but she had a huge head. I personally know several moms who have delivered 9 and 10 pound babies with relative ease, but their heads were smaller, and I swear, some people's bodies were made to give birth. My best friend has never laboured for longer than 8 hours, and all her babies were 8+ pounds. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

16 minutes ago, Otto Titsling said:

They can leave marks, bruises, do nerve damage, break bones, and worse. That’s why they were largely abandoned in the seventies. The suction cup on the scalp is usually the first approach now, but forceps have never completely been done away with. Besides, in certain situations, they can be life saving if baby is stuck very low in the birth canal. 

I went to high school with a gal who had scars from the forceps on the sides of her chin.

[SongRed7]

18 hours ago, Edhelfin said:

I think any positive/neutral interest shown to famous people like Duggars just makes their public persona stronger and extends their reach. They use this to influence people's lifestyles, choices and even voting preferences. They are anti-choice, anti-lgbtq+, anti-religious freedom. Voters like them are not fond of equal opportunities such as free access to healthcare and inclusivity.

With all due respect,  I think you over estimate their influence or reach.   Except for some corners of the internet where people fall into three camps 1 -- fans 2 -- detractors 3 -- neutral amused observers ( who watch the family like they are a freakish side show, but don't feel strongly one way or another in reality) most people don't even know or care who the Duggars are.  They affect people's daily lives zero percent

so while I vehemently disagree with many of their beliefs, I'm not worried in the least that showing occasional positive/neutral reaction has any net affect. 

11 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Pickles is in her 50's and by her own admission, she's been a teacher and had foster kids. She's just being dramatic, as usual. I have no idea if she's ever given birth, I doubt it. She probably would've mentioned it at some point.

That is Pickles MO.  She makes these wildly speculative statements.  Her "fans" half read them and accept them as "truth" because you know "Pickles4Truth", the Inquisitor writes a story based on her speculations and comments, and then later on when people spout these "rumors" as truth, Pickles likes to scold them and tell them not to speculate and that she only prints the "truth"

[SongRed7]

10 hours ago, mizandry said:

But I mean, to be fair, it was a slight mishearing in this case

But Pickles does it all the time.  I would think more highly of her, if after discovering she was wrong, she would say..."hey I was wrong."  Like when she ripped Jessa for that video a while back saying they were calling Spud's dancing "skating" because of the evils of dancing. NO they were discussing the name of the song the little Spudmeister was jamming too..."Skating" from Charlie Brown.  it was totally innocent.  But once she realized she was wrong and simply misheard, the post disappeared with not as much as one comment. I would give her more credit, if on occasions she said, "while I still disagree with the XYZ beliefs, I was wrong on this occasion"   So now, to me me it all sounds like BEC. 

[singsingsing]

Actually, I think this is an important point. When I first stumbled across FJ many years ago now, I had a positive view of the Duggars. I wouldn’t call myself a leghumper, but I thought they were nice, interesting and overall harmless people. I was not educated at all about the true nature of Christian fundamentalism, had never heard of Gothard, ATI, the Pearls, etc. I thought FJ was a nasty place full of nasty people.

So obviously I changed my mind. And what didn’t change my mind was non-stop vitriol, pure hatred, or the refusal to acknowledge that the Duggars (or other fundies) are human beings and maybe even have some positive attributes and sometimes do good, interesting, or funny things. If anything, that kind of attitude only entrenched me further in my belief that the Duggar critics were cruel, unreasonable people, hating just for the sake of hating.

What gradually changed my mind was information. The truth. Seeing that the Duggars could be human beings with positive attributes AND members of a dangerous ideology and toxic cult. I really strongly believe that if we’re TRULY concerned about unconvinced people reading here and forming their opinion of the Duggars, we have to treat the Duggars like human beings. Otherwise those unconvinced people will not take us seriously.

This doesn’t mean leghumping. It doesn’t even mean ‘being nice’. But I do believe it means that it’s okay and even productive to have conversations about someone’s cute engagement photos, or baby names, or whatever, at the same time as we’re discussing how flawed courtship is, or the abusiveness of blanket training, or how looking cute and seeming fun doesn’t mean they’re leaving fundamentalism, it means they’re wolves in sheep’s clothing.  

I can tell you from personal experience that people will not take your criticisms seriously if you’re making the people you’re critizing into caricatures. That doesn’t mean saying anything nice about the Duggars if you have nothing nice to say, trust me! But I would argue that it does mean not hand slapping and lecturing every time someone says, ‘Oh I love her shoes’, or, ‘I’m so excited to see what they name the baby’, or, ‘Here’s a list I made of the spacing between Michelle’s births.’

(Especially that last one. That right there constitutes neutral information. You may think lists and spreadsheets are weird, creepy, or a waste of time, which is fine, but don’t come here claiming that it’s somehow ‘leghumping’. That’s absurd.)

And if someone’s reading FJ and they see us guessing baby names or commenting on someone’s cute dress and their take away is that the Duggars are great people, they obviously missed the other 90% of the forum and there’s really no helping them. 

[SassyPants]

13 hours ago, Fascinated said:

I haven’t watched JB and Michelle’s congratulatory video yet but, just from the still pic above, holy shit, Michelle looks good, doesn’t she?  She looks young and in no way outwardly compromised from birthing a plethora of babies.  She is, unfortunately, a shining beacon for the quiverfull movement. A movement of which they aren’t a part, if I recall correctly. Hahahahaha. 

Michelle is a rare, rare woman. And you are right, unfortunately, she presented to her a kids a very rare example that will likely not be the reality for many most of those kids. Plus, Michelle was unusual in that she was one of one. If every 2nd generation Duggar had 20 kids, there would be no happy, kind laundry fairy or TLC. The more likely reality would be poverty and the collapse of this version of fundieism. 

Initially JB and M were hardworking hustlers with some honed people and work skills.  None of the 2nd generation appears to have those skill sets. 

Michelle also uses WW and exercises- do any of the 2nd generation show that kind of discipline?  All things being equal (no education, skills,  job/work histories, refusal to use BC) and without JB's connections and moxie (vomit),  those kids and their families would be on welfare.

[flyonthewall]

21 hours ago, Edhelfin said:

Who the hell cares about some bigoted strangers' spawn enough to make charts and lists? I swear thread drift is the only thing that separates FJ from the leghumper comments in the Duggar blog nowadays. 

AGREED! As time goes by it becomes more noticeable that most people here are just obsessed. If you're posting here every day, time to take stock of your life, or just get one in the first place.