Turpins 3: 2 Monsters, 13 Victims (WARNING abuse and torture)

[EmCatlyn]

And here is more interesting information from the Mercury News

Quote

They don’t surf Facebook on donated computer tablets or watch TV news stories about them. They are appreciative of the cards, gifts of clothing and other items donated but have no idea of the worldwide interest in the case that has drawn overflow media crowds to criminal hearings.

“They are humbled that so many people in their community have expressed a concern and well wishes for them,” Osborn said.

The adult children know of their parents’ legal case, said Osborn, who declined to say whether the children want to speak with their parents. Through a teleconference, the adult children visit with their minor siblings, whose current location has not been disclosed by social services officials. They had been treated at Riverside University Health System Medical Center.

The report goes on to say that plans to discharge the adults from the hospital were delayed because they caught the flu.

This Mercury News article is actually full of new details, including that the young people are under the temporary custody of the Riverside County Guardian and that there will be a hearing on May 31 to determine if the conservatorship should be made permanent.

Quote

A conservator has the authority to make decisions for people and manage their affairs. Osborn, speaking from his Redlands office Monday, Feb. 26, said his firm’s job is to make sure his clients know their options for independent living and understand their legal rights, and to ensure that their wishes are made known to the court.

Maybe some of the lawyers on FJ could explain what would happen if the conservatorship were made “permanent” and the young people wanted control of their affairs after a year or so?  Do these things get revisited?  Would they have to bring some sort of legal case?  May 31 seems too soon, but “permanent” is a long time.

[kacarlton]

A little more information ( and some rehashing of the old) in this article: Siblings Enjoying Everyday Activities

Hospital staff has been feeding them regularly and they enjoy lentil soup, lasagna and fish but, apparently, they're not fond of burritos.
They've been allowed to use iPads, go outside to play basketball and soccer and entertain themselves listening to CDs and reading books. Country music and books on nature and insects have been particular favorites, Osborn said.
And finally, they've been able to watch some of the most popular films over the last few years, including the "Star Wars" and "Harry Potter" series.

I am not happy about the phrasing “allowed to use I-pads.”  I think the report should say that they “now have the opportunity to use I-Pads.... not sound like they “have permission.” (But I like that they can do all these things.)
Their lawyer said that he  updating the public because the siblings want him to.

Osborn said he is providing the first glimpses into their recovery process because his clients have expressed interest in thanking the public for their concerns and updating them on their status.

 

These survivors are really something special, aren’t they? To even think of thanking people when they are dealing with so much. [emoji173]️

[LovelyLuna]

I have never been to the hospital that the adults are staying, but I have been to the one the younger kids were treated, allegedly.  I haven’t been in 5 years or so but it’s my bottom rated hospital by far.  It is overcrowded,  the one time I was in the ER I was placed in a hospital bed in a hallway.  The nurses were not friendly. The wait time for scheduled appointments was about 3 hours.  The doctors were always changing and it took another 2-3 hours to get any prescriptions filled.  They regularly brought prisoners from the local jail in orange jumpsuits and chains.  It was not the cleanest place.  I witnessed domestic violence and a parental kidnaping in the parking lot on one occasion and I had to give a statement to the police.  Lots of gang members. And homeless people because they cover people who do not have insurance. Surprisingly they had an awesome cafeteria.  

Knowing the other hospital already had an area for long term care makes much more sense to me. 

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, LovelyLuna said:

I have never been to the hospital that the adults are staying, but I have been to the one the younger kids were treated, allegedly.  I haven’t been in 5 years or so but it’s my bottom rated hospital by far.  It is overcrowded,  the one time I was in the ER I was placed in a hospital bed in a hallway.  The nurses were not friendly. The wait time for scheduled appointments was about 3 hours.  The doctors were always changing and it took another 2-3 hours to get any prescriptions filled.  They regularly brought prisoners from the local jail in orange jumpsuits and chains.  It was not the cleanest place.  I witnessed domestic violence and a parental kidnaping in the parking lot on one occasion and I had to give a statement to the police.  Lots of gang members. And homeless people because they cover people who do not have insurance. Surprisingly they had an awesome cafeteria.  

Knowing the other hospital already had an area for long term care makes much more sense to me. 

That is too bad about the Riverside hospital.  The younger ones supposedly were released and placed in foster care a couple of weeks ago.  

[HarryPotterFan]

20 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

Maybe some of the lawyers on FJ could explain what would happen if the conservatorship were made “permanent” and the young people wanted control of their affairs after a year or so?  Do these things get revisited?  Would they have to bring some sort of legal case?  May 31 seems too soon, but “permanent” is a long time.

Can a FJ lawyer also explain how this is different from guardianship? I know in some disability communities guardianship is a controversial issue, because some worry that adults get too many choices taken away or can be forced  to undergo medical procedures.

[LovelyLuna]

55 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

That is too bad about the Riverside hospital.  The younger ones supposedly were released and placed in foster care a couple of weeks ago.  

To be fair I always received adequate care and even saw a doctor that diagnosed a medical mystery of mine.  He was employed at another Riversid hospital but he volunteered at the county hospital regularly because he was an amazing humanitarian.  He eventually arranged for me go to his home hospital for free, which is why I haven’t been in 5 years.  I’m sure the juveniles received good medical care. 

[feministxtian]

Another child found in a cage

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/news/i-team-4-year-old-child-kept-in-cage-by-parents-police-say/1004632910

[MarblesMom]

9 hours ago, LovelyLuna said:

They regularly brought prisoners from the local jail in orange jumpsuits and chains.

Prisoners need health care, too.

I am sure it was unsettling, though.

[EmCatlyn]

Yo Yo Ma plays for Turpin Siblings

This news item says Yo Yo Ma gave a special performance for the 13, but does not mention the younger kids at all, so it may just have been for the older kids.  If the younger kids were there, I believe it would be the first “in the flesh” contact between the minor children and the adult siblings.  In any case, the music must have been a treat, and Ma has a rep for getting along well with people.

[pook]

I have done a lot of lurking in this thread and there's not much to say that hasn't already been said.  I want to say that I wish those 13 beautiful souls all the very best in their recovery.

Completely related to nothing and no offense to the guinea pig but I found this and had to share...

 

[LovelyLuna]

21 hours ago, MarblesMom said:

Prisoners need health care, too.

I am sure it was unsettling, though.

I agree,  I never felt unsafe because they always had at least 3 officers to each prisoner.  My only gripe is they had to be seen immediately for safety reasons and so they added more wait time to my appointment.  Everyone, law abiding or not deserves medical care.  I was lucky to go to the riverside hospital because I didn’t have insurance at the time and the only reason I wasn’t homeless is because I had family to fall on.  So no judgment there either.  

[LadyCrow1313]

On ‎3‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 11:51 PM, MarblesMom said:

Prisoners need health care, too.

I am sure it was unsettling, though.

I've been to a few medical places where I'd seen officers escorting prisoners for treatments. I'll admit that It's a little odd to see, but I never felt weird or unsafe.

On ‎3‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 11:40 PM, feministxtian said:

Another child found in a cage

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/news/i-team-4-year-old-child-kept-in-cage-by-parents-police-say/1004632910

WTF is wrong with people?!? I hope this poor kid is able to live a good life after all the shite he's been through.

[EmCatlyn]

It seems the Turpin 17-year old who escaped the house had previously been able to post on youtube.  

Daily Mail article

The youtube channel no longer seems to be available.

[EmCatlyn]

Elizabeth Flores and a cousin visited David and Louise in jail.  They told “Good Morning Britain” that Louise is delusional and thinks she will be released but that David seems to realize what they are in for.

Quote

Speaking to Good Morning Britain, Louise Turpin’s sister Elizabeth Flores revealed the delusional mother believes she is going to be freed soon and maintains her innocence.

Elizabeth claimed her sister seemed detached from reality after she and her cousin Tricia Andreassen travelled to California to see the disgraced parents face to face.

Also appearing on GMB, Tricia added: “When we went and saw Louise, we walked out of there and were like “oh my gosh, what in the world are we seeing?”

....

[Elizabeth said that David, on the other hand, was] “broken”, adding that he “sobbed until his shoulders shook” when they visited him in prison.

Cousin Tricia said however: “We don’t know if he was crying because he got caught or he’s remorseful, or it is because he’s separated from Louise, we just don’t know.”

The UK Sun —Report includes link to video interview.

 

[SuperSluth]

Part of me hopes that maybe she had a total break from reality a long time ago and that imprisoning her children was the only way she could figure out how to care for them.  But I doubt that is the case.  So sad.

[ven]

Jordans( 17 year old) twitter account is still up. She used the alias lacey swan . You can still google it/ check it out on twitter  . I am very happy to see that the kids were not that deprived and at least knew social media. If nothing else it will make their reintegration easier. glad to see at least some normalcy.

[Sideways]

6 hours ago, ven said:

Jordans( 17 year old) twitter account is still up. She used the alias lacey swan . You can still google it/ check it out on twitter  . I am very happy to see that the kids were not that deprived and at least knew social media. If nothing else it will make their reintegration easier. glad to see at least some normalcy.

This leak of Jordan's secret Twitter account which posted to YouTube, and her Instagram account (which was pulled) seem suspiciously like the information got out intentionally.  Various Facebook Turpin groups speculate Louise Turpin may have known about Jordan's social media; that the defense may actually have leaked this (through a neutral anonymous "source") to undermine the children's accusations of abuse. 

Why suddenly were Jordan's "secret" social media accounts discovered all at once?  Why upon this discovery did this end up on "Inside Edition" today, as well as other articles?  

Why was Jordan's Instagram suddenly pulled?  And her Twitter account, which went under the name of @swan_lacey with the name "Lacey Swan", why did someone this afternoon delete several tweets, including one in December that said "Just relaxing at home" and on New Year's Eve, "Happy New Year everyone!".   Then Jordan's photo was also deleted.  And why was name of the account changed from Lacey Swan to "SL"?    

Many questions.  I am speculating here:  Perhaps  Louise discovered Jordan's social media  just prior to when Jordan escaped.   Jordan's last post on Twitter was January 13, and her account only began in December.

Any thoughts on this?

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, Sideways said:

.....

Many questions.  I am speculating here:  Perhaps  Louise discovered Jordan's social media  just prior to when Jordan escaped.   Jordan's last post on Twitter was January 13, and her account only began in December.

Any thoughts on this?

I can’t begin to figure out how J-8 got access to social media and was posting to the internet without her parents’ knowledge.  I wouldn’t be surprised if they knew and allowed and even facilitated the creation and posting of the Youtube videos.

It may all have been part of Louise’s fantasy about the “perfect family for reality TV” that one of her teenagers should be an aspiring singer-song writer who followed Justin Beiber on Twitter, etc.  They may have monitored and controlled her Twitter account.  It doesn’t have to have been a secret from them.

So I would not be surprised if the information about the accounts “leaked” from the defense for precisely the purpose you suggest.  It raises the question that the allegations of torture and isolation are exaggerated and/or false.  

Another possibility is that J-8 did do this behind her parents’ back (probably with the help of a sibling or two) using the same deactivated cell phone that she used to call 911. She may have stopped posting after she and her siblings decided it was time to escape because she was afraid the parents would find out.  

J-8 or one of her siblings may have mentioned it to someone after the Yo Yo Ma concert when talking about how they all love music, and this led to the leak.

(It is also possible that the information about the social media wass mentioned casually in interviews of J-8 by the DA’s office, and the defense saw its promise when going over the interviews turned over by the prosecution.)

Lots of possibilities, but I agree that it is odd it surfaced now.

 

 

[FiddleDD]

Some of the people in the Facebook groups are now starting to wonder if the abuse was “actually that bad”. 

Come on people! Just because someone is abused doesn’t mean every second of every day was miserable. Even in the Ariel Castro case, the girls had TVs and radios and had fun amongst themselves. 

The Turpin kids knew nothing else but the way they were raised. And even horribly abused kids love their parents. We still don’t know what it was that finally convinced the 17 year old to climb out that window.

Maybe, just maybe, it was something she saw or read on social media. The social media she probably only had access to for those couple months. (That’s when the accounts were started, presumably on the deactivated cell she found and later used to call 911.)

[EmCatlyn]

7 hours ago, FiddleDD said:

Some of the people in the Facebook groups are now starting to wonder if the abuse was “actually that bad”. 

Come on people! Just because someone is abused doesn’t mean every second of every day was miserable. Even in the Ariel Castro case, the girls had TVs and radios and had fun amongst themselves. 

The Turpin kids knew nothing else but the way they were raised. And even horribly abused kids love their parents. We still don’t know what it was that finally convinced the 17 year old to climb out that window.

Maybe, just maybe, it was something she saw or read on social media. The social media she probably only had access to for those couple months. (That’s when the accounts were started, presumably on the deactivated cell she found and later used to call 911.)

 The problem a lot of people have is they want things to be consistent. And there is nothing consistent about the Turpin abuse except withholding food and limiting the kids’ movement and access to the world.  How they limited the access and what food they withheld and how long a punishment would last were all variables.

The kids got to see some TV. They got to hear some music. They were allowed to sing (at least sometimes). They probably had some awareness of the internet. Their mother was on social media and skyped with relatives. The parents would lock them in rooms and leave the house. Those who were not in pain from beatings or being tied up could probably do a lot when parents weren’t around.

That they had moments when it wasn’t “too bad” doesn’t mean they weren’t abused and starved and tortured.  A lot of what the DA disclosed was a summary of the worst of the recent abuse.  Not everything we find out is going to fit in neatly with that summary, much less with the way the media has framed the situation.   

 

 

[Palimpsest]

On 3/1/2018 at 9:26 PM, EmCatlyn said:

<snip>

Maybe some of the lawyers on FJ could explain what would happen if the conservatorship were made “permanent” and the young people wanted control of their affairs after a year or so?  Do these things get revisited?  Would they have to bring some sort of legal case?  May 31 seems too soon, but “permanent” is a long time.

 

I'm-not-a-lawyer but do have some APS experience in the area.  The definitions of Conservatorship versus Guardianship vary by state so for this you really need a  CA lawyer's opinion.

Here's one outline of the differences in CA:   https://www.schomerlawgroup.com/blog/conservatorship-in-california-2/conservatorship-vs-guardianship-california/

Relevant quote from above article:

Quote

When will a conservatorship terminate?

A conservatorship of an individual typically terminates when the conservatee passes away or the conservatee regains the ability to handle his or her own personal and/or financial affairs.

 

The Turpin young adults won't be treated as a herd.  Their abilities should be assessed individually and, especially in a case like this where their abilities may well improve, a conservatorship should be reassessed regularly.  IMO temporary conservatorship would be better in this case, but even a "permanent" conservatorship can be appealed and overturned.  Yes, it does need to go before a judge.

On 3/2/2018 at 5:33 PM, HarryPotterFan said:

Can a FJ lawyer also explain how this is different from guardianship? I know in some disability communities guardianship is a controversial issue, because some worry that adults get too many choices taken away or can be forced  to undergo medical procedures.

In my state Guardianship is the most restrictive option and is an absolute last resort for adults with disabilities after all other options like appointing a Representative Payee (specific monies only), Power of Attorney, Durable POA, and Conservator (all dealing with money and some spelled out decision-making on behalf of the adult) have been exhausted.  The person has to be declared incompetent to make decisions - another court decision.

Appointing a Guardian really does take away people's autonomy and the ability to make their own decisions.  Some guardians are very good, responsible, and careful.  Some can and do abuse the responsibility.  These abusive guardianships can be overturned - again in court.

Guardians are supposed to use substituted judgment:  "the standard that directs the decision making of a guardian. Substituted judgment requires taking of a decision by the guardian who s/he believes the ward would prefer based on the ward's previously expressed preferences. A decision has to be made or is required to be made implementing the course of action in conformity with a ward's known wishes expressed prior to the appointment of the guardian."  https://definitions.uslegal.com/s/substituted-judgment-guardianship/

On 3/3/2018 at 12:47 PM, EmCatlyn said:

Yo Yo Ma plays for Turpin Siblings

This news item says Yo Yo Ma gave a special performance for the 13, but does not mention the younger kids at all, so it may just have been for the older kids.  If the younger kids were there, I believe it would be the first “in the flesh” contact between the minor children and the adult siblings.  In any case, the music must have been a treat, and Ma has a rep for getting along well with people.

I met him once at a concert he gave as at fund-raiser for children.  Yo Yo Ma struck me as a real sweetheart and he is indeed very good with people. He really charmed the socks off me! 

 

[Jana814]

@PalimpsestI heard that about Yo-Yo Ma also. People have said he is the nicest person. 

[BlackSheep]

On 3/7/2018 at 11:47 PM, EmCatlyn said:

 That they had moments when it wasn’t “too bad” doesn’t mean they weren’t abused and starved and tortured.  A lot of what the DA disclosed was a summary of the worst of the recent abuse.  Not everything we find out is going to fit in neatly with that summary, much less with the way the media has framed the situation.   

@EmCatlyn, thank you for this well-stated insight. The news about her social media accounts certainly gave me pause. Given the picture painted by the media and the DA, I wondered how someone in a crowded "House of Horrors" managed to repeatedly get alone in a room, get online, sing out loud, not be heard in a house full of people, and have time to upload videos. It didn't fit with everything else.

Clearly, there is much that we don't know. I'm sure that even those on the front lines - the attorneys and case workers and judge - don't yet have a grasp of the full picture.

[church_of_dog]

51 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

I'm-not-a-lawyer but do have some APS experience in the area.  The definitions of Conservatorship versus Guardianship vary by state so for this you really need a  CA lawyer's opinion.

Here's one outline of the differences in CA:   https://www.schomerlawgroup.com/blog/conservatorship-in-california-2/conservatorship-vs-guardianship-california/

Thanks for this, @Palimpsest, it helps me understand a real-life situation I'm helping someone with. 

[EmCatlyn]

3 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

....

The Turpin young adults won't be treated as a herd.  Their abilities should be assessed individually and, especially in a case like this where their abilities may well improve, a conservatorship should be reassessed regularly.  IMO temporary conservatorship would be better in this case, but even a "permanent" conservatorship can be appealed and overturned.   

..

Thanks for your detailed explanation. I did know (in general) the dif between guardian and conservator, but my concern is with the “ permanent” part of the conservatorship.  I doubt that the Turpin kiddults will be ready to function all on their own in May, but I get the feeling most if not all will be ready a year from now. So a conservatorship with a time limit which would be reviewed, revisited and if necessary renewed would be best.

I hope all of them can get individual care and support.