Family as Friends

[FireIsCatching89]

A lot of fundies, like the Duggars and the Maxwells, always seem to insist that their family members are their best friends and they don't really need anyone else, but do you think they really are friends? Or, like me, do you think its forced? What do you all think about family as friends in general?

For the record, I consider my mom one of my best friends, but that was my choice, and even then, sometimes I don't always want to spend time with her, or she just doesn't "get it" (kids these days, ya know?). Or there's things I'll talk about with my other friends, but never with my mom, or whatever.

True friendship can't be forced. My brother and I aren't friends, we're siblings who sometimes get along and sometimes don't. WWIII would have started had my parents really tried to enforce friendship between us.

[maybeizfundie]

My siblings and I have grown from siblings into good friends, as adults. Well, closer than good friends, really. We have different lives, lifestyles, and varying beliefs, but we get along well in relationship, even when we disagree on issues. My parents modeled this really well with my dad's side of the family (mom's side is just massive, sad dysfunction, unfortunately)--incredibly disparate lifestyles and beliefs, but never a problem with maintaining friendship or getting along.

Not sure if I would define my relationship with my parents as friends, really, though it certainly has the hallmarks of a close and loving friendship. They're still....parental, to me.

I wonder how much of our general opinions are formed by our experiences? My experience lends itself to me finding friendship with siblings/family perfectly normal and believeable, but I can see why yours would be different.

[Kitty]

The "family as friends" thing seems forced to me. I'm definitely not friends with my younger sister, because we're so different. I could see my parents as friends though, but still, they're my parents. It really does take a village to raise a child, and so I do need other people. My parents did however try to force friendship between my sister and me, ironically by making me hang out with her and her friends so I'd get out of the house. It failed.

I don't doubt that there are some massive rivalries in the Duggar family. No two siblings are alike. Sure, they *love* each other, but that doesn't mean they get along. By definition they're not best friends.

Everyone has different groups of friends. I have UNCW friends, I have hometown friends, I have best hometown friends, I have UNC/NCState friends, I have FJ friends, I have other-forum friends. But I live a fairly normal life not bound by forced isolation. I need people other than family members.

The Duggars, Bateses, Maxwells, et. al. are so restrictive and isolated that they don't have a choice but to get along with their families. that is forced. Do Josh and, say, Jessa really get along? How is Jackson supposed to be "best friends" with John? Because of their huge age gap, they can't really be best friends- at least not at this point. They really, really do need other people. They get along to keep up troop morale. None of these kids had the choice to live together, and they're all supposed to be soldiers for God, right? They get along simply to keep up troop morale. They have nobody else, except a few informants and allies along the war front. They have contact with other troops. That's not friendship.

[nuri]

I wasn't able to be actual friends with my brothers until I was in college. Because that's when we realized we actually had things in common.

...like the day that we realized we had all bought the same book, in the same week, at different bookstores and called each other to tell them about it.

My brothers and I have become good friends. But we had seperation and growing up to do before we all could be good friends. My two older brothers are much closer in age than I am to them, and they have always been friends.

[JesusFightClub]

I have two brothers and when we see each other we get on brilliantly. I email one every day and as he works near my flat I often bump into him and we go for a pint. The other I see very rarely and am not as close to, but that is not to do with any issue between us, he lives far away and has a young family as well as working long hours. We all fought like cat and dog as kids but in our late teens realised we actually liked each other ;)

So yeah, I count them as friends. I love my mum but it doesn't feel like a friend relationship...she's my mum! Can't define it, we are very close, but she is definitely Mum not pal.

[MamaJunebug]

My dad's sibling set (6) was pretty insular. There were a couple of fond friends who got invited to social events, but most of the social events were family events; I really don't remember any couples who weren't related to my folks, aunts or uncles at weddings or funerals.

The situation amongst the 6 of them (and spouses) was not at all what I'd call dysfunctional. I think it differed from some of the radical "family only" situations that we see here because all 6 were permitted--indeed, encouraged!--to get good educations, to work in the world as Lutheran Christians while not subscribing to all the traps of the world. Mom's sibs were looser but still relied on each other before neighbors, unrelated friends, etc.

While I think it was positive for the old ones, it did impact my generation in that my folks never quite "got" the desire I had for friends outside of sibs and cousins. Most of my closest relationships, now, began relatively recently (10, 15 years ago) for a person my age who's lived in the same general area for most of her life.

[Sola]

I don't think there is anything wrong with having family, siblings as friends. But when that is used in lieu of having friends outside the family, because of parental control for example, then that is wrong. Your family is more likely to share your views which is nice, but that is not the real world. You cannot possibly learn how to deal with people with differing views if you have no experience of having friends outside the family.

[Letgo]

I did not become friends with my sister until we were both adults because there was too large of an age difference. But now we are close. I wonder what would have happened had we lived like the Maxwells...*shudders*

I think many of the families who don't allow their children to have outside friends probably do have close friendships within the family unit. There is no other choice. I am sure some sibling relationships "click" better than others, but in a large family there are more options for forming friendships. I remember reading years ago that larger families have fewer sibling fights because there is less contact between the kids who don't get along with each other.

I wonder what happens when "children" like the Maxwells, who are taught that outside friendship is wrong, marry into another family. Does Christopher's wife have any problem fitting in with her sisters-in-law? If Sarah or Anna marries, how to they go from avoiding contact with outsiders because of the mere possibility of encountering a non-Steve-approved thought, to actually living with other people? And after being so limited and controlled within the family unit, how in the world does a young woman adjust to leaving? I feel so sorry for some of these wives, especially those who now live far from their families. Can you imagine what it is like to be Anna Hamilton? Or Brittany Vawser? Some of these courtships and marriages were long distance and fast, with very little time to get to know the new husband and his family. And they often live right on top of the husband's family. No outside friendships ever, but now all new ones in a new family. And only within that family. Those poor women. Are they all as happy as they seem on their blogs?

[Guest Anonymous]

I would consider my family (sisters, mom etc..) my friends. We hang out alot even though we are all really different. Alot of it is that we all have kids around the same age so we do alot of things together.. for example this weekend we are taking the kids to a really fun pumpkin patch that has rides and games for the kids. This gives us time to hang out with each other and the kids to be together which is imprtant for me because my daughter is an only child and I want her to be around her cousins as much as possible. That said, we all have lives and friends of our own, my family is a huge part of my life but not the only thing like I see with the Maxwell's.

[SunnyAndrsn]

I think it's possible, and I do see a lot of close families. When push comes to shove, in most families (Not all, I know that!), it's going to be a sibling or parent that is 'there' for you.

That being said, I have a better relationship with my Dad and sister living several hundred miles away. If we were closer physically, we wouldn't be closer emotionally.

I do adore my mother in law, she's my replacement mom :-) We do a lot together, even without my husband.

[clibbyjo]

I was best friends with both of my sisters at different times in my life. My homeschooled children are very close friends with each other and also have close friends outside of the family. My 3 hang out with each other a lot and if one is missing all day everyone is weirded out until that person is back. My oldest son volunteers 1 day a week(all day) and the other two cannot wait for him to get home.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

I think it's easy to claim your siblings as your best friends when you all have been brainwashed to have the same opinions and you have no one else. Tons of people are close friends with their siblings (just as tons are NOT), but the difference is that most people have an actual choice. When you have as many sibs as the Duggars do I think it's natural that some will be close and some won't. I think there's a real friendship between Jinger and Jessa, for instance, as well as JD and Joseph, and Jackson and Hannie. I don't think Josh has any real friends amongst his sibs, and I don't get the vibe that Jill and Jana would be hanging out with each other (or with Jinger and Jessa) that much if they had other options. And I'm not so sure any of them lurve Anna or have a natural friendship with her, but they're stuck.

I'm friends with my brother, and my brother-in-law, but they and our sisters-in-law aren't exactly our first choice of people to hang out with. We don't have a ton in common or many common interests as adults, other than our kids who all adore each other. I'm closer to one of my cousins and his wife, in fact. We spent tons of time together growing up and as adults we are closer to each other than to our respective brothers.

[MerryHappy]

We were limited to siblings as friends because my parents learned pretty quickly that when others come into the home abuse is easier to spot. Even with similarly minded people...like other Gothardites.

My siblings and I are not close now. We see and/or speak to each other less than half a dozen times a year...probably less.

[Guest Anonymous]

There are five siblings in my family, and we are all extremely close friends. A poster (wish I could remember whom) noted in a thread where this topic came up that sometimes in an abusive and/or negligent home, the kids will band together strongly. I do think that is a factor in our closeness although I hope that we would have had it without the bad stuff happening.

I don't have a relationship with my mother but when things go wrong and I need someone to talk to my older sister is the first person I call. She more than half raised me and the bits she didn't do I figured out on my own. The two kids that are immediately younger than me have the same feelings about me from what they've told me, and the baby feels that way about them.

So I guess that the kids in the mega fundie families may really be very good friends, but not for the reasons that the fundie parents believe.

[QueenNocturne]

Not fundie, but my parents wanted my little sister and I to be close, or at least get along, due to problems they had with their own siblings (Mom was an oopsie baby that was significantly younger than her siblings, and Dad's family is always fighting). That...didn't work as well as little sis and I have polar opposite personalities. We can get along, but if we're forced to be each other's friend, it doesn't end well.

There's no way either of us could have survived living in an ATI-type household where we'd have to be bffs. No amount of 'keeping sweet' would have defused that ticking time bomb.

[GenerationCedarchip]

Growing up, it was very common for siblings to be pushed together and urged to be close friends in our church. However, we were also expected to have outside friends (also fundie, of course). Many parents used the friend/sibling dynamic as an accountability tool. If all siblings are included in a social event, any bad behavior by one will probably get ratted out by one or another of the siblings.

[SimplyMe]

I believe many of them are truly good friends. The older Duggar girls seem to be very close, as do the Morton's, Sander's, etc... I worry though about the ones that don't have a same-sex sibling close in age (Joyanna, for example), they are sort of out of luck in the friend department.

However, even if they are truly great friends, it's still crazy that they all discourage having any non-family members as friends. What if a fundie family only is able to have one child, should that child never have any friends? What if Melanie Maxwell has only the 2 girls-- she has had issues concieving and carrying to term, so it's highly possible. Her two girls will be each others only friends?

It's bizarre and sad. I have 4 kids who are all very close friends, but they all also have several close friends outside of the family. I can't imagine it being any other way.

[Jessica]

I do think it's good for siblings to be friends but not your ONLY friends.

[ADoyle90815]

Not fundie here, but my brother and I have become friends as adults, as when we were growing up, our friends were from outside the family such as school and the neighborhood. Even as adults, our friends still come from outside the family. On my dad's side of the family, nobody was close at all and people only got together for a major holiday, wedding, or funeral. In fact, one of my uncles thought it was strange that my aunt's family often got together just to have coffee. On my mom's side, people got together more often, and things weren't as formal, so my brother and I felt more comfortable visiting my mom's side of the family.

[O Latin]

I didn't have a lot of friends as a teenager (mostly by my own choice) and so I very much did consider my family to be my friends, in a way, at least. My sister and I went through a period in high school where we hated each other. We get along fine now, but we hardly ever see each other even though we live in the same city and go to the same school. I really miss her a lot of the time, actually. My brother is seven years younger than me. I think in a few years, we'll be friends, but at this point (he's a freshman in high school while I'm a senior in college) we don't have that much in common.

My mom, though... From the time I was about 13 we interacted more as friends than as mother and daughter. She would be the mom when she needed to be, but she really wanted to be friends with her teenage daughter and, in a way, I needed a friend more than I needed a mom, so it sort of worked out.

Also, I am one of those people who considers my close friends to be like family, so the line between friend and family blurs in both directions for me. Most of the people that I spend any significant amount of time with I consider to be some of both.

[keen23]

So not fundie here. Growing up, I wasn't close to any of my siblings. My middle two are true Gemini twins and have always been closer to each other than any of the rest of us. Then my youngest brother is 12 years younger than me, and I was more of a babysitter than a friend. My relationship with my siblings was pretty caustic. We would frequently get into screaming fights that turned into physical fights-this didn't end until I went off to college. I don't know if I was the instigator- but I probably was. Now that the oldest three of us are in our 30's there is a new closeness. My sister had her first baby this year, my brother got married. We are all in the same basic life phase, and it makes things more mellow.

I was always close to my Mom. We didn't go through the normal teenage angst of "I hate my Mom" type stuff.

[lilwriter85]

One of my friends who I grew up with, was in many ways forced to try and make his siblings his best friends. My friend grew up in a family of 7 kids but his family wasn't fundie. They didn't attend any church for several years. The mom was the type that had a negative attitude and basically told her kids that their siblings had to be their friends, because friends outside the family come and go. There is truth to that but sometimes friendships outside the family do last. I'm still close friends with this guy and he leaves out of state away from most of his siblings and he is only close with 2 of them.

I think it is good to be friends with your family but sometimes you needs friends from outside of the family to give you different perspectives and different kinds of support.

With fundies, I think part of the reason, they encourage siblings as friends is to sort of keep the kids from friends with people they may not like or people that aren't in the same lifestyle.

[darareaksmey]

I think the world turns more smoothly if you are BFFs with the people you are raised with, but I don't think you're necessarily going to be friends. On the other hand, it seems inevitable with families like the Duggars. Who else do they have that they see on a regular basis, aside from the crew and some cousins? I know other fundy families drop in sometimes, but in those episodes the relationships betweeen the Duggar older girls and say the Bates girls seems a bit nervous on everyone's part. It's as if the Duggar girls are afraid to be TOO too friendly with counterparts in another family, lest they stop being BFFs with their own sisters and actually come to prefer the company of outsiders, even other fundies. I think the poor girls have no choice but to find someone in their own family who bugs them less than others and become besties with them. Their options are quite limited.

I enjoy seeing my son and daughter become better friends as they get older. My husband's family all get along famously and enjoy each other's company. There's too much fighting in my family, sadly. I love my sister and brother and would love to better friends with both of them, but I don't see that happeneing till after our very jealous mother dies. She has never seemed to want us to be close siblings

[bananacat]

I think family are just a bunch of strangers that you end living with, in a way. So you won't necessarily be compatible just because you're related. I'm really close to my mom, and somewhat close to my brothers because we had the same childhood experiences in common so at the very minimum we can reminisce together. But I haven't talked to my dad in years and I'm glad about it. He's a horrible person and I don't feel any special obligation to overlook his meanness just because I'm related to him.

Going through tough times or major good events can be a bonding experience, so I think families will tend to be closer than the average stranger. But some people just really aren't worth having in your life and if they're related to you that shouldn't be an exception.

[debrand]

Darn. I didn't see this thread until after I started another one on Sarah Mally's friendship with her much younger siblings. :oops: Well, maybe this is a case of two truly remarkable people(the OP and I) thinking alike. :lol: