Josh, Anna and the Ms 15: now with Mason

[Greendoor]

I do not want to see anything to do with Christmas until Rememberance Day (Nov 11) has passed.

I hate that my grocery store has had Hallowe'en candy out since the 20's of September. 

42 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

@Greendoor. We need four days to start shopping for Christmas. As an immigrant, thanksgiving is one of my favorite holidays. For me, it's all about sharing with family, and no gifts involved.

All days have a start that maybe gets lost over time - I offer Christmas an example.

 

[VelociRapture]

3 hours ago, Greendoor said:

Canadian Thanksgiving has it roots in Harvest Home; thus it is celebrated at/near the Harvest moon.

American Thanksgiving is founded on a national myth around the Pilgrim settlers.  Hence the reason for the emotion and four-days to celebrate.

 

We don’t celebrate for four days. Thanksgiving is always on a Thursday and many people end up traveling in order to celebrate with family. Having that Friday off allows people to travel, spend time with their families on the holiday (and possibly a bit after that too), and get home for work the next week without taking any or without taking too much vacation time.

I agree the myth behind it - that the first Thanksgiving was a cross-cultural Love Fest - is ridiculous though. And while I am not Native American, I can absolutely see why that myth would be insulting to many people who are - European contact marked the beginning of the end for many Native American tribes and their ways of life.

Personally, I don’t view it as a day to be thankful for my country or for the Pilgrims or anything. I just like to focus on my family and things I personally am grateful for at Thanksgiving.

[Greendoor]

3 hours ago, Greendoor said:

All days have a start that maybe gets lost over time - I offer Christmas an example.

 

As I stated before, you have a four day holiday due to the inceptatory reasoning for the holiday .  How you and any others choose to spend or what you choose to recognize is immaterial.

Enjoy Columbus Day, which I believe you celebrate this month (in the US, not Canada).

 

[HarryPotterFan]

8 minutes ago, Greendoor said:

As I stated before, you have a four day holiday due to the inceptatory reasoning for the holiday .  How you and any others choose to spend or what you choose to recognize is immaterial.

Enjoy Columbus Day, which I believe you celebrate this month (in the US, not Canada).

 

Not really. It's celebrated one day, then back to work on Friday unless you request a vacation day. Schools have Thursday and Friday off.

I do think that celebrating this holiday and Columbus Day celebrates a mythology and ignores the mass slaughter of Native Americans.

 

[Greendoor]

It's amazing how long it has taken all of North America to realize what was done to First Nations upon our arrival, both deliberately and inadvertantley (not that there was much that wasn't on purpose).  

Truth and Reconcilliatoin is the start of a long process here in Canada.

 

[Londish]

2 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

Not really. It's celebrated one day, then back to work on Friday unless you request a vacation day. Schools have Thursday and Friday off.

I do think that celebrating this holiday and Columbus Day celebrates a mythology and ignores the mass slaughter of Native Americans.

 

Interesting fact, Los Angeles plans to stop celebrating Columbus Day and instead replace it with Indigenous People’s Day - which I think is a good start. I have also read the at other cities may follow suit.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-indigenous-peoples-day-20171003-story.html

[VelociRapture]

5 hours ago, Londish said:

Interesting fact, Los Angeles plans to stop celebrating Columbus Day and instead replace it with Indigenous People’s Day - which I think is a good start. I have also read the at other cities may follow suit.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-indigenous-peoples-day-20171003-story.html

It’s a very good start. 

It does bug me a bit that some Italian Americans are so opposed to the move though. I get that latching onto Columbus and promoting him as an American hero helped them feel more American and be accepted as such in the 1900s... But Columbus is not the guy I want representing my husband or my daughter, both of whom carry Italian ancestry. There are much better people of Italian heritage to celebrate, most of whom weren’t responsible for the eventual rape and genocide of millions of people.

My suggestion has always been similar to what LA has done - eliminate Columbus Day, choose to honor indigenous people that day instead, and celebrate Italian heritage on another day. I always though the Feast of St. Gennaro would be a good option since it’s already a big festival in New York City. Just pick one of the eleven days of the festival to honor Italian Americans, their heritage, and their contributions to American society. 

(I’m not in favor of having that day off though. Teach about Italian American history in schools instead. And I’m leaning the same way on Indigenous Peoples Day too. It would be a long overdue (but excellent) way to introduce the actual history into the classroom.)

8 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

Not really. It's celebrated one day, then back to work on Friday unless you request a vacation day. Schools have Thursday and Friday off.

I do think that celebrating this holiday and Columbus Day celebrates a mythology and ignores the mass slaughter of Native Americans.

 

And if you work retail or a service position or don’t get vacation time? Forget getting Friday off at all. You screwed.

And just because it’s coming up soon:

Dear Rest of the World,

If you ban anything from coming to your countries from America, Black Friday should be it. This American is not a fan at all, especially of the recent trend of some stores opening ON THANKSGIVING DAY for early Black Friday sales. I’m really happy to see more and more stores are deciding to stay closed on Thanksgiving this year, but I wish the entire idea of Black Friday would go away. 

If you need me that day, I’ll be wearing my fat pants and trying to convince my husband that pumpkin pie is an acceptable breakfast food.

Sincerely, 

A cranky Dinosaur yelling, “GIT OFF MY LAWN!!!” to all those young whippersnappers.

[Audrey2]

@VelociRapture, I completely agree with you about Thanksgiving Day. It's my favorite holiday, and I loathe the Christmas Creep. I make a note of the stores open on Thanksgiving Day (except for groceries- I give those stores a pass) and refuse to shop them during the Christmas Season. I barely shop them during the year, as I try to shop retailers whose business practices I believe in more. I can understand needing Liquid Plumber on Thanksgiving because Uncle Lou clogged the toilet, or you had a Thanksgiving food disaster (like the oven or stove broke) or you just flew in but your luggage didn't, so you need toiletries and a cheap change of clothes or underwear (Wallyworld or Freddy's), but Target, Kohls, Macy's, Old Navy, Best Buy, etc. does not need to be open on Thanksgiving. (Yes, I know Target has the pantry in most stores, and I think there are some Super Targets out there, but for the most part, I see their groceries as secondary to their other merchandise, instead of the other way around or an equal share, like Wal-Mart.)

Do you have space for a cranky old people-eating plant to yell, "Get off my lawn!" as well?

[Bad Wolf]

@VelociRapture Pumpkin pie  = vegetables, eggs, milk, wheat, etc. A perfectly healthy breakfast food. 

[Jinder Roles]

I don't understand why Americans celebrate Columbus Day. He never step foot in the Americas. His exploration was limited to the Greater Antilles of the Caribbean. 

Why on earth has he been made into an American hero?

[HarryPotterFan]

40 minutes ago, Jinder Roles said:

I don't understand why Americans celebrate Columbus Day. He never step foot in the Americas. His exploration was limited to the Greater Antilles of the Caribbean. 

Why on earth has he been made into an American hero?

This is a good explanation:

This discussion is reminding me of working with a local Native American organization in grad school as part of a group project. During our last meeting before Thanksgiving break, one of my classmates asked the woman we were working with what she was doing for Thanksgiving. I was completely horrified, I should have kicked this classmate under the table. The woman just politely responded that she doesn't celebrate it.

[VelociRapture]

59 minutes ago, Jinder Roles said:

I don't understand why Americans celebrate Columbus Day. He never step foot in the Americas. His exploration was limited to the Greater Antilles of the Caribbean. 

Why on earth has he been made into an American hero?

In case you aren’t able to watch the video @HarryPotterFan linked until later:

Washington Irving wrote the first biography of Columbus. It basically amounted to an 1828 version of historical fiction. There are several issues with his work, including his claim that everyone at the time thought the world was flat until Columbus’ voyages - this was completely false as most scholars already realized the Earth was round. Irving seemed to view literature as a great way to inspire patriotism in readers, but this specific work really just sparked nationalism instead and held Columbus up as a false hero.

The US also has a dark history of treating large waves of immigrants badly. Right now it’s Mexicans and Muslims. But earlier in our history it was the Italians (in the early 1900s.) They weren’t considered “white” and were treated pretty badly. I believe the largest mass lynching in US history was when 11 Italians were killed in New Orleans in 1891. 

So Italian-Americans basically latched onto Christopher Columbus in order to convince Americans that Italians were essential to the history and fabric of the nation. Irving had already created this false idea of who Columbus was and I think it wasn’t until the 1940s or 1950s that the first real criticism of Irving’s work and reliable depiction of Columbus was published. 

(And I highly recommend the video linked above. We watched that episode recently and I think it was pretty well done.)

[unholypoledancer]

I agree with no more Black Friday @VelociRapture!! Yes! Can we make this a movement? I am also VERY much against people who work in retail being forced to work Thanksgiving evening. I understand our police, nurses, doctors, firemen etc all do this-those are such important jobs where emergencies occur. I am sorry, but there is no emergency that requires you to have cashiers at Best Buy and Ross so you can get in line for a big screen TV. 

[cascarones]

39 minutes ago, unholypoledancer said:

I am sorry, but there is no emergency that requires you to have cashiers at Best Buy and Ross so you can get in line for a big screen TV. 

Especially with Cyber Monday two days later! I'll happily be left out of the mayhem, perusing the leftovers, watching football.

[SapphireSlytherin]

50 minutes ago, unholypoledancer said:

Can we make this a movement? I am also VERY much against people who work in retail being forced to work Thanksgiving evening.

The only way to make this a "movement" is to convince people to stay home. That won't happen.

I've never Black Friday-shopped and I won't start now. Besides, my family gives "experiences" rather than things - like tickets to the symphony, gift cards for movie theaters, amusement park passes, plane tickets, hotel vouchers, etc.

[unholypoledancer]

24 minutes ago, cascarones said:

Especially with Cyber Monday two days later! I'll happily be left out of the mayhem, perusing the leftovers, watching football.

I forgot about Cyber Monday! I do the majority of my Christmas shopping online, except for decorations or alcohol.

[nokidsmom]

When I worked retail while in college, Black Friday was an "all hands on deck" workday.   However, it started at 9 AM that day, none of this working on Thanksgiving at all.    The retail stores did just fine and I never understood the urgent need to get that big screen TV at midnight.  As a former retail worker, I would fully support no working on Thanksgiving.

That said, ever since I left retail, I have avoided Black Friday as much as possible.  I think I went out on that day only 2 times and the last time was 20 years ago before the "open on Thanksgiving" insanity.  Got to the store after the 8 AM open, got my one or two things, went home and stayed home.   

[llg1234]

Mackynzie's birthday messages:

(From Anna's twitter. TW: Turd sighting

Spoiler

 

 

 

Hope she had a good 8th birthday, and hopefully she's still allowed to enjoy her childhood and hasn't been "upgraded" to sister-mom status. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

4 hours ago, unholypoledancer said:

I understand our police, nurses, doctors, firemen etc all do this-those are such important jobs where emergencies occur. I am sorry, but there is no emergency that requires you to have cashiers at Best Buy and Ross so you can get in line for a big screen TV. 

There are some non-emergency jobs I've had that required working on Thanksgiving and Christmas. When I worked at the front desk of a hotel, we each worked a 4 hour shift so that everyone got most of the day off. When I took care of dogs and cats who were boarding while their owners were gone, we split who did the morning and evening feeding, cleaning, and exercising shifts. I also used to pet sit every Christmas. I didn't sleep in my own home for Christmas until I quit pet sitting when we had kids. 

That being said, I agree that no one really needs to buy the latest gaming system at 1am on black Friday. If the stores didn't have their lowest prices then, most people would probably prefer sleep. 

[VelociRapture]

59 minutes ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

That being said, I agree that no one really needs to buy the latest gaming system at 1am on black Friday. If the stores didn't have their lowest prices then, most people would probably prefer sleep. 

Pfft. I still prefer sleep. Priorities, I clearly have them. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

9 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Pfft. I still prefer sleep. Priorities, I clearly have them. 

I wholeheartedly agree. There's a reason I listed "watching the inside of my eyelids" as one of my interests on my FJ profile. 

[unholypoledancer]

I am envious of people who can wake up whenever they want even one day a week. Between my daughter, the dogs and the cats, someone is trying to get my attention. Sleep is the best. And ever since joining the 30 and up club, I appreciate afternoon naps now more than ever. 

[FloraKitty35]

9 hours ago, Jinder Roles said:

I don't understand why Americans celebrate Columbus Day. He never step foot in the Americas. His exploration was limited to the Greater Antilles of the Caribbean. 

Why on earth has he been made into an American hero?

Washington Irving helped make Columbus an American hero back in the 19th century.

[Kangaroo]

You should all count yourselves lucky. Christmas sections in stores appear from late August here. Decorations are usually up by November in big shopping centres. Come boxing day (December 26), Easter begins to appear in the form of hot cross buns (I'm not complaining about that, I love them!)

We've slowly been getting more Halloween pushing major displays back a bit, but the fact you can get Christmas and Easter things for 4 months of the year is lunacy.

[SapphireSlytherin]

I've seen Christmas stuff since late July, depending on the stores.