Lori Alexander 28: Not Liking Children

[EowynW]

20 minutes ago, Florita said:

I have doubts that Pr. Jay is for real. I think an IRL pastor would contact her via email - privately. And an IRL pastor would toss in the gospel (i.e. Jesus) as a means of repentance and forgiveness for her transgressions. And an IRL pastor would reach out for a face-to-face meeting to discuss his concerns. Dissing someone on their blog just doesn't seem pastor-like to me. But it's just mho.

And I'm pretty sure Ken & Lori attend church but don't belong to a church - they don't join (and therefore avoid the commitment to tithing). Sorry, but I don't have quotes to back this up, but I think Ken said this at some point.

Eh not really. I come from a multi generational pastor and ministry family and if a professing believer  is foolishly in the wrong, you don't just give 'em the gospel. 

 

And in her world she's perfect so an email would've done nothing. She and Ken would also refuse to meet. Her teachings are from the pit of hell and  she's hateful in public  and deserves a firm calling out in public. 

[molecule]

A reader asked a simple question. Even if she is someone who has been antagonistic in the past, this is an opportunity for Lori to clarify something she has said that she has been asked about before. Instead of answering the question in order to teach whatever she thinks she is teaching, she accuses the reader of twisting Lori's words into something ugly. 

[Loveday]

@molecule my jaw hit the floor when I read Lori's response to that. I had to read the comment two or three times to be sure I wasn't missing 'something ugly.' Nope. I wasn't. There was nothing ugly in her comment.

ETA: This comment won't last long:  "Your teachings do cause harm and abuse. Every time I see your posts, the term "Stockholm Syndrome" flashes brightly in my head."

[LizzieDawn]

From the newest post:  "If I mention the word submission, being kind, loving, or serving our husbands in any way, women scream “abuse” or selfishness on the husband’s part.  Why do they have to say anything? It’s as if they believe it’s their job to protect women from our teachings as if our teachings cause harm and abuse."

Yeah, it's as if they believe it's their job to protect women.   Heathens.   It's as if they think it's harmful to teach that God has given one person complete control over another person for the rest of their lives and any dissention is sinful.   No man would ever take advantage of that power.   And these terrible women even believe that everyone should be kind to each other, and that this doesn't mean automatically doing whatever the male person wants.  What insanity.   What would Jesus say? 

Clearly, if I had just been properly submissive, my ex wouldn't have constantly found fault with everything I did.  I mean, one of his many excuses was that he didn't respect me because I didn't stand up for myself enough, but I'm sure submission would have fixed everything. 

[Hisey]

2 hours ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

Well, Ken might draw the line with her if it starts to affect his business. If Pastor Jay follows through, this will be all out in their community.   *gets popcorn ready*

Ken has known all along that this could affect his business. He obviously doesn't care. The real person Lori could hurt is her son Ryan. He depends on that business to support his wife and three small children. Not clear that he has any experience in any other work. Ken, on the other hand, could probably retire tomorrow if he wants to.

[Imrlgoddess]

I think if her blog were to be shut down for any reason it would just turn her into a martyr for some.  How easy would it be to play the, "I was soooo honest and convicting, I offended the unbelievers and they came after me.  This is what happens when you tell the hard truths!" card.

I, for one, hope she doesn't get shut down, but that she simply fizzles out.  Folks like her only respond to one thing:  being ignored.  She's that annoying little kid who just has to be the center of attention and is a master at turning any argument back around on the person she just ran into.  She's Cartman from South Park.....

[Red Jumper]

35 minutes ago, Hisey said:

Ken, on the other hand, could probably retire tomorrow if he wants to.

But then Queen Lori could neither have a ten week vacation nor these super expansive products nor a maid despite having nothing to do than sit on her bony ass all day long. Plus: If I were married to someone like that I'd rather work until I drop dead than spent 24/7 with that nasty kind of human.
(Ok, I would I have divorced her, but I will not trade 5 minutes of lube for this behaviour)

[December]

1 hour ago, Loveday said:

It doesn't matter what version you use, you can't teach half a chapter and expect your students to get the whole message.

Yeah, but focusing on one or two lines of an entire book without context would certainly making it easier to support whatever point you're trying to make.

2 hours ago, Curious said:

Pretty soon all our posts will just be weird fundie speak.  We will have our own language (we already do sort of)

I was going to say, there's already a pretty high learning curve to understand some threads here with all the references and abbreviations!

[Imrlgoddess]

1 hour ago, LizzieDawn said:

Clearly, if I had just been properly submissive, my ex wouldn't have constantly found fault with everything I did.  I mean, one of his many excuses was that he didn't respect me because I didn't stand up for myself enough, but I'm sure submission would have fixed everything.

This.  That's the whole issue, if a person goes by Lori's description of submission this is what could happen.  My ex used to say similar things when we first got together, he didn't like that I was so passive (in general).  He'd fuss because I was afraid to tell people no.  Then I grew a backbone....needless to say we haven't been married for many years now.  

As many have mentioned, Lori didn't submit.  She just found a sneakier method of getting her way.  

I can give Lori credit for this:  She has given me plenty of fodder for my senior thesis coming up.  Their idea of the 'weaker vessel' has really given me something to ponder.  

[older than allosaurs]

I, too, think Pastor Jay might be too good to be true. But if he is for real, I nominate Jay Foulk, who is in the San Diego area and is on a teaching team of some sort. The high profile Pastor Jay is too far away and too hipsterish to fit those posts.

[Koala]

2 hours ago, Loveday said:

It surprises me that Ken hasn't figured this out and suggested to her that they do a joint ministry, where she teaches the women and he teaches the men. It could work very well in a blog format (Ken's miles o'text followed by Lori's three short, 4th grade level paragraphs notwithstanding).

It's possible he has suggested it, though, and had Lori shoot him down because she wants it all for herself. 

Ken Alexander:

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I sometimes encourage her to be more balanced, but she says, "my ministry is not to men. If you want to teach men, start your own blog.' 

It seems that Submissive Lori isn't interested in her husband's advice on how to run her blog, where ironically, she teaches women to submit to their husbands.

He got the same response when (after spending time on FJ) he came up with a laundry list of changes he wanted her to make.  
 

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My wife is not submitting to me on some issues I would like to see changed or modified on her blog. Are you shocked???

 

[Loveday]

Ha. Thanks for the reminder, @Koala, I'd forgotten about that. She clearly can't share the limelight. 

[jerkit]

2 minutes ago, Koala said:

Ken Alexander:

It seems that Submissive Lori isn't interested in her husband's advice on how to run her blog, where ironically, she teaches women to submit to their husbands.

He got the same response when (after spending time on FJ) he came up with a laundry list of changes he wanted her to make.  
 

 

Do you have a link to Ken's list? His threads are such an effing word salad that it's nauseating to try to find specific things. 

[onemama]

From her post today:

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a woman named Hazel made this comment, “With a marriage that needs a bit of fine tuning, this will work. However, in an abusive marriage, this will only make things worse. I tried Love Dare. The further I got, the worse things became. He soon learned that it didn’t matter what he did, I would still treat him kindly. I did this until it nearly killed me. We’re now divorced and this is the best I’ve felt in years. Yes, life is hard but I no longer have the wet blanket of verbal abuse. The ‘shut up and forgive’ thing only goes so far. It never, ever applies to an abusing marriage.” She received a lot of likes on her comment.

What was Hazel’s goal in writing this? Was it to warn women to not try smiling and being kind towards their husband since it may make it worse? Was it to water down Nancy’s encouraging and wise words to wives in order to distract women from truth? We can’t know for sure but it’s a consistent behavior among many women today.

What is your goal, Lori, in posting this?  Is it to warn women against being distracted by anecdotes that may make them think twice about your doctrines?  Is it to ridicule the woman who made the comment? Is it to water down the reality that your one-size-fits-all "prescription" for women in difficult marriages doesn't always work? 

Lori, we wonder about the intention behind a lot of your posts:

 Why did you post that commentary declaring that women aren't made in the image of God?

Why did you have to find the commentary that somehow managed to say the Proverbs 31 wife didn't plant a field?

Why do the nastiest and most misogynistic sounding screeds make it through your blog moderation (think Trey and Dave) while dissenting comments that are well backed up by scripture get deleted?

Why do you call a woman whose main ministry is to help people a "Jezebel" while you bask in the attention of men that aren't your husband and who follow your teaching blog? 

Why did you choose to single out a woman's well-written blog post, disparage her and accuse her of twisting and manipulating Scripture? What was the motive behind that foolish post?

[Koala]

2 minutes ago, jerkit said:

Do you have a link to Ken's list? His threads are such an effing word salad that it's nauseating to try to find specific things. 

He was never specific about what he wanted her to change, but there were several instances of us confronting him with things Lori had said.  He would insist that Lori would never say any such thing, and then we'd quote and link her.  Then he'd try to mansplain, but there's not a lot you can do with a direct quote.

I think it's possible that the main thing was our concern that she was (very dangerously) giving out advice even though she had no effing clue what she was talking about.  

I do know that he wanted her to delete her "if you hit hard enough, it will work" advice (to a clearly abusive mom), but she never did.

[feministxtian]

 I said it before...Lori is not one to SUBMIT herself to any authority, be it spiritual or temporal. I don't think Pastor Jay going to the pastor of Lori's church is going to do much in terms of shutting Lori up. If they're not members of the church then the pastor has no real authority over them anyway...that's only for MEMBERS who have agreed to place themselves under that particular pastoral authority. The ones who come under the heading of "attenders", the church has no spiritual authority over them. The worst that can happen is Kenori are told not to show their faces at this particular church again. They'll just take themselves down the road to another church. They can go down the road to another megachurch where they would be anonymous and keep on going. 

It is my understanding (I may be wrong), but church membership, that is, joining with a body of believers IS biblical. Being part of a community and placing yourself under the spiritual authority of the pastor is something Christians should do. We are members of our church. What that means is that should hub and I start publicly saying things against the church, we would be asked to leave that body. If either one of us or both of us were to fall into serious sin, it would be handled as written in Matthew 18. First, a member would talk to us and attempt to bring us back. If that doesn't work, that would be repeated with 2 or more witnesses. If that didn't work, we would be brought before the whole church body and asked to repent or we'd be asked to leave that fellowship. We agreed to that when we signed the membership covenant. But...since Kenori do not "believe" in church membership, they're basically free agents. 

Lori will have much to answer for, I believe. It is written that teachers are judged much more harshly than others. And, well, I've tried to see if she showed the fruit of the spirit...and her fruit is rotten and smells very bad. 

 

[sawasdee]

Sooner or later, a woman or a child is going to die because of Lori's advice. 

And you know what? She'll probably say it's because she wasn't submissive enough, and provoked him into violence.

She's dangerous. I really hope that Pastor Jay is real, and that he is influential enough - or has friends that are - to widely publicise the unchristian, uneducated, sheer ignorant  arrogance of her blog.

I'm not part of the christian blogging world. Can members who are post as often and as completely as they can of the unchristian nature of "The Transformed Wife" and "Always Learning"?*

*Both of which names are in such contradiction of what she actually is.

[Hisey]

It's clear Lori loved the attention she gets from her commenters, and from the outside world (like when she went viral).

But I also think she loves the attention she gets within her family. She went from being an ordinary housewife, whose opinions didnt' matter much (I'm a SAHM so I know that feeling of invisibility), to a BLOGGER who has to be CAREFUL of what she TEACHES.

Her words might hurt Ken's business. How powerful she is!  Her DILs ask her not to post pics of their kids. Is that right?! Should she do it anyway? Her aunties come and talk to her about her opinions, whereas before her opinions didn't much matter! Her kids are embarrassed, yet lack the courage to speak up. Lots going on, people paying attention to her. . . Lori, the aging housewife whose kids are grown and gone, who has no hobbies and not much to do, suddenly becomes important.

To a narcissistic personality, this kind of attention and dissent are intoxicating.

Frankly, it irritates me when she uses the word "teaches." Who is she to teach anyone? 

[sawasdee]

@Hisey I think you are absolutely right.

I also think that her more extreme positions recently, and her demented deleting, are because she is desperately trying to "go viral" again.

"Whee - I'm famous!"

[Florita]

Church membership snips. They never use the words "belong to."

As @feministxtian said only members agree to be under pastoral authority. "Belonging" to a church has responsibilities that "attending" avoids.

[Koala]

Titus 3: 9-11

But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

Proverbs 6: 16-19

There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.

Reader:

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Lori, respectfully I have to ask, would you appreciate someone saying to you, “You do manipulate and water down this verse that even children could understand”?

You insulted a fellow sister in Christ, not to mention someone I highly regard. It’s one thing to objectively discuss Bible doctrine and differences of interpretation, but to accuse, insult and disparage Gail is crossing the line of how to treat a fellow family member.

Gail and those of us who believe in a different interpretation of Scripture do take the Bible seriously. We’ve studied and continue to study the biblical texts in order to properly understand God’s message.

We’re all on the same team here…we’re all Christians saved by God’s grace. We may disagree with one another doctrinally , but surely even in our disagreement we can still be kind and respectful.~

Lori's snotty response to a sister in Christ:

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She is a false teacher, Tami, so I have no problem speaking against what she teaches and calling it what it is: manipulating and watering down Scripture

 

Lori is sowing division among believers, and she's loving every minute of it.

[feministxtian]

Yes, belonging or membership in a church body has rights and responsibilities. BUT...there are some churches, especially megachurches that don't have membership. I don't believe that Calvary Chapel really does membership. But...we belong to a baptist church that emphasizes membership. As members, we have the right to vote on church business, but we also have the responsibility to serve in some capacity. Hubs is part of the parking lot security team (our church is near some not-so-nice apartments) so 4 guys walk the lot for an hour at a time for each service. Fortunately, there's enough volunteers that he only has duty twice a month for an hour each time. I sing in the choir which takes TONS of time! We sing at both morning services and the Sunday evening service. Sundays are busy and hectic for us. At church by 8:30 for our bible study group, then pre-service practice (warm-up), Sing 9:30 service, we stay for that one, then after that service, I run my stuff out to the car, Go back, sing 11:15 then head home. Back at church at 5pm at the latest for REAL choir practice, sing at the 6pm service...sometimes we stay, sometimes we don't. 

The cool part of our church is that it's small enough that you really can't hide in the shadows. Our pastor knows EVERYBODY!!! 700 people and he can rattle off people's names. While some of you would disagree with much of what my church stands for, the reason we are there is precisely because of a pastor who can remember people, their names, their challenges...you can literally FEEL the love there. It's a very ethnically mixed congregation, people know each other, care for and about each other. Kenori would never survive there...

I can't see Kenori devoting that type of time and effort to anything other than their own egos. 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

OMG!  Total smack down by Pastor J!! 

I wonder if LoriKen are concerned Pastor J really will go to their church with his compiled evidence about their 'ministry" (which isn't a ministry at all).

Oh to be a fly on the wall when Pastor Jay meets with LoriKen's pastor -- even better to be the fly when LoriKen's pastor meets with them and puts them under church authority.

However, I don't believe LoriKen would ever meet with their pastor about any of this, and I'm damn sure they would quit their church rather than submit to authority.

Lori would probably write a blog post about leaving their church because of sniful false teachings.

Adding:   I know they've moved around from church to church.  I wonder if they have been asked to leave before, or quit because the church tried to put them under authority?

[Koala]

I think the church before this one was the one where Lori wrote the pastor's wife a letter, rebuking her for her choice in swimwear.  I am pretty sure that didn't go over well. 

Lori's a busybody, so whatever church they go to, she's going to stir things up until they are no longer welcome.  Then, she'll declare the church "lukewarm" and she and The Horse of TRUTH will move along to the next church.

Lori:

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I have confronted several who wear skimpy bikinis, one was even a pastor's wife, to no avail. My rebuke fell on deaf ears. 

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I think the pastor's wife liked the way she dressed and I know I'm not the only one who didn't like it. Others confronted them about it but they didn't care. However, we are called to rebuke, exhort and encourage others towards godliness and if we can't do this in the church, something is very wrong. {Now, I'm not saying we should go around rebuking everyone since this is wrong and no one would like you! It took me years before I felt ready to write a letter to the pastor's wife. 

Lori's own grown daughter AND daughter-in-law BOTH wear bikinis.  Do they get letters?

Also, did you catch the bit about how she "knows" she's not the only one who didn't like it?  Yeah, that's because she was gossiping and sowing division among believers. 

[Koala]

As a side note, Pastor Jay should remind Lori of this:

Lori Alexander:

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 It's so easy to forget that "wise men {and women} take rebuke."

When have we EVER seen Lori take rebuke? 

When rebuked, Lori is careful to remind her readers that she doesn't need to be held accountable by them:

Quote

Thank you for explaining, Amy, but you don't need to hold me accountable.