Dillards 39: From SOS to Peddling ALERT

[HarryPotterFan]

On 8/16/2017 at 2:46 PM, missegeno said:

As someone who has just spent a year looking for work following getting a masters degree (with all the success), and just got a job that I could do with an associates (and only got it through a connection - my only real interview in the entire year), it sickens me how true this is.

 

On 8/16/2017 at 9:02 PM, Galbin said:

I am 10 months post masters and still unemployed. Keeping my fingers crossed that my luck also turns. 

A year after my masters I got a volunteer job at a prestigious organization through networking, my boss wanted to hire me but higher ups were refusing to hire anyone for any position. A year later I got the job I have now. 

Yeah, who you know can matter a lot, which sucks. And best of luck to you, @Galbin!! 

[PainfullyAware]

2 hours ago, calimojo said:

We behave in a way that is likely to produce the result that we want.  This is a key part of human nature.  And we quickly learn if we behave in an oppositional way to what we want, that makes our life more difficult.

So what you're saying is that Israel is more mature than Donald Trump? The president has clearly never learned to adapt to any oppositional response to his behaviour he gets. 

[nastyhobbitses]

Man, Israel is going to be a messed up kid if he's being taught from day one of gaining verbal and cognitive faculties that his dad thinks he's a manipulative liar.

Derick, you're an asshole in just about every way you can be an asshole.

[HarryPotterFan]

16 minutes ago, nastyhobbitses said:

Man, Israel is going to be a messed up kid if he's being taught from day one of gaining verbal and cognitive faculties that his dad thinks he's a manipulative liar.

Derick, you're an asshole in just about every way you can be an asshole.

I think I said this before, but as a father of two sons who plans on having endless children, I hope he gets peed on every day of his life.

[SadieJane]

I have 3 stair step kids, each two years apart, and yeah, they manipulate, but Jesus Christ it's nothing malicious. I was one of those people who was excited when Jill found D Wreck, and now every time almost, that he opens his messed up mouth, I lose even more respect. 

Someone needs to tell that dillhole to let his kids be kids.  I can't imagine my kids growing up to think that Mr Jane and I are constantly suspicious of them. As someone who is a professional psych student, I cringe when i read what he posts about his parenting. 

[JoyJoy]

I haven't watched the clip were he calls Israel manipulative, but I don't think what he tweeted today is bad 

[BeccaGrim]

So they're basically using Jill's instagram account to sell things now right?  Is this the new way of Grifting? Do they have affiliate links? 

[JesusCampSongs]

On 8/17/2017 at 10:18 PM, VelociRapture said:

@SassyPants I will always be of the opinion that Derick Dillard will never be a CPA. I watched my husband go through the process of becoming one about five years ago and it is tough - and it's even tougher when you already have a family too. It's not impossible of course, but it's definitely a lot harder to force yourself to study when you just want to spend time with your kids and partner. It takes a very dedicated and hardworking person to be able to juggle all that.

Don't you have to have a master's to become a CPA, anyway? Pretty sure Dewreck only has a bachelor's, so he'd need at least a year of postsecondary education in addition to running the gauntlet that is obtaining a CPA. My cousin recently finished earning hers a few months ago (she passed every exam! she's so awesome!), but she literally did  NOTHING but study and work at her internship while she was running the CPA gauntlet. She hated it because she basically had no social life at all, but that's what she needed to do. I agree that Dewreck just doesn't have the grit for it. 

On 8/18/2017 at 0:03 PM, singsingsing said:

Derick, open your fucking Bible. You should know which group Jesus constantly rebuked, warned, criticized, and lectured: arrogant religious zealots. And the worst sin of all? Pride. Oh, and the commandments that encompass all other commandments? Love God, and love your neighbour.

I'll also extend the same message to Derick that I extend to everyone who voted for Trump and who still insists on supporting that psychopathic fascist: go fuck yourself.

I'm just saying that my father, a Southern Baptist Sunday School teacher who has been a Republican since the day he turned eighteen, has, in the past year, disavowed the Republican Party, started using terms like "white privilege" appropriately and unironically, and gotten in numerous debates with his friends and the kids he teaches at church about how Trump is terrible and Christians should be ashamed of themselves for having voted for him in such large numbers. He's pushing sixty, y'all, and grew up in the middle of rural southern Appalachia. He is old enough to remember the Civil Rights movement and the schools in his county being desegregated. If he can get his head on straight about this stuff, there is absolutely no excuse for younger folks who can't hide behind being raised in a different time and in a backwards region. 

He, too, has lots of strong feelings about fellow Christians who have so much to say about other people's sins but so little to say about their own. 

[VelociRapture]

@JesusCampSongs The requirements when husband completed them (five years ago) were:

1. Pass all four parts of the exam within 18 months.

2. Have two years of work experience under the direct supervision of a fully licensed CPA.

3. Have 150 credit hours total. This request includes -

a. A bachelors degree from a regionally accredited four year university.

b. 36 semester hours in Accounting courses.

c. 30 credits in business and economics courses.

d. 60 credits in general education.

e. Remaining credits can be any courses that give credit.

4. Finally, you need to pass an ethics exam (at least husband did in Connecticut.)

After becoming a CPA, you need to pay an annual fee and take 30 hours of Continuing Education courses. If you don't do so your license will lapse. 

Derick would not only need the 30 or so extra credit hours on top of his bachelors (most people earn a Masters degree, but it's not required), he would also need to pass the exam and get the required work experience. So yeah. I'm completely convinced he'll never be a CPA. It takes far too much time, money, and effort. 

(And congratulations to your cousin! That's a huge accomplishment. I remember how hard husband studied for grad school and the exam - I used to quiz him with flash cards and almost everything went right over my head. I have a lot of respect for anyone willing to put in the time and effort.)

[Henk12]

15 hours ago, HurricaneBells said:

I have the opposite problem. All the women in my life or my age seem to have teenagers and adults and I have an almost 3 year old. I didnt have a kid until I  was 33 whereas my friends started young and my siblings are over 7 years older and i was a kid when theirs were born. My oldest nephew has the closest aged child (18 mo) to mine! Same on his dads side too sigh.....

There are definitely struggles no matter how old you are when you have kids. My mom was 35 and 36 when she had my sister and I and she said the same thing as you. I feel bad for the young moms because of the stigma that comes with being young (people assume you are like the girls on Teen Mom) but there's a stigma with older moms too! I've seen people give older moms a hard time and say that they won't be able to be as active with their kids and a bunch of other ridiculous crap. It's like women can't win haha

[LovelyLuna]

Derick is reaching Jill Rodrigues level of being a disappointing human being.  Gone forever is the goofy love sick puppy from Nepal.  

My friend called me when her 3 year old lied to her for the first time.  She took something (a q-tip) and said she didn’t have it.  Mom wanted to talk about how excited she was that the child had reached a milestone. Neurons were growing, concepts and ideas were changing, skills were achieved. She of course couldn't show the child she was excited and so it was a memorable moment shared between two adults.  She gently explained that lying is not ok and then went on with life.  The child is not a serial lier. I feel sorry for the poor Dillard boys.

[LawsonBatesEgo]

45 minutes ago, LovelyLuna said:

Derick is reaching Jill Rodrigues level of being a disappointing human being.  Gone forever is the goofy love sick puppy from Nepal.  

My friend called me when her 3 year old lied to her for the first time.  She took something (a q-tip) and said she didn’t have it.  Mom wanted to talk about how excited she was that the child had reached a milestone. Neurons were growing, concepts and ideas were changing, skills were achieved. She of course couldn't show the child she was excited and so it was a memorable moment shared between two adults.  She gently explained that lying is not ok and then went on with life.  The child is not a serial lier. I feel sorry for the poor Dillard boys.

Sounds like a similar conversation we had with Mr LBE's sister about our 3 year old niece. She told SIL that she was feeling sick so they stayed home from something (it might have been swimming classes) and then an hour later, she was bouncing around like nothing was wrong. Turns out my niece lied about having a sore tummy and sore head because she didn't want to go to swimming classes.

Instead of branding the child a manipulative liar like some parents would (*cough Dewreck cough*), my SIL acknowledged it as normal child development and behaviour - her daughter was table to think 'OK I don't want to do this....what can I do to not have to do this?'. Of course, children have to learn you can't always lie/manipulate, and sometimes you have to do things you don't like. It doesn't mean the child is a psychopath in the making, it just means they are developing normal thought processes and need their parents to help guide them in what is socially appropriate. It is frightening that Dewreck doesn't realise Izzy's behaviour is normal for a toddler that is still learning and developing. 

[JoyJoy]

Look at his hashtags, I think he knows Israel is too young to know what lying is. I would love to see the clip where he calls Israel manipulative. Is there somewhere I can watch it?

[laPapessaGiovanna]

12 hours ago, calimojo said:

A young baby that learns when they drop a toy off of their high chair and the parent picks it up, has learned a basic lesson in manipulating the world around them.  They have learned that if they behave or do a certain thing, that it produces a predicted response.  Anyone who has ever raised or been around small children remembers the time their baby learned to drop or throw something and how they were amused by mom or dad or a sibling having to pick it up again. 

Sorry but no. A young baby throwing an object on the floor is just playing and exploring throwing the object, no manipulation involved. If you never pick up the object he won't expect it, but if you do you become part of the game, you are playing with them. The reasons for an adult stops playing the game usually are that it's incredibly boring and we feel the baby is "making us do it", both this feelings are a typically adult thing. A baby finds the act of throwing an object and observing the consequences of it endlessly amusing and that's the only reason for which they would keep doing it for hours. The adult retrieving it is just part of the game as it provides the baby with an object to throw. Baby has no idea that you are bored to death by his favourite game and that you feel they are "making you do" it, baby thinks it's fun because that's their experience and doesn't even imagine it can be boring for you.

If you stop retrieving the object baby may be pissed. But it's not because you are subtracting yourself from their supposed manipulation but because their favourite game came to an abrupt end. This is even clearer  when the baby notices another throwable object at their reach and stops whining to throw it. They couldn't care less if you retrieve it or not as long as they have something to throw.

To clarify, I am talking about babies from less than 1yo to 1 and a half yo max. This game explores movement and baby's actions impact on objects, children that have started to move around a room on their own soon find more complex games to play to explore the possibilities of their actions on objects. There's a phase when they crawl on the floor and throw an object and then go to retrieve it by themselves. But this doesn't bother us so we don't link this game to the first as an evolution of it.

As for considering every action a child does with the expectation of soliciting a certain response a manipulative action well sorry but no it's not, it's just learning how to interact with others. After all we do it all the time in our lives and it's not always manipulation, often it's just socially acceptable and expected behaviours. If you want something from someone you should ask right? But what if you are non verbal? And what if even if you are verbal you don't know the words to express what you want? Or you don't even know what you want let alone express it? They ask with actions and often it may be with inappropriate actions. Then it's up to us teaching them the right words and appropriate actions.

And if you want to see the person in front of you smile do you ask them or do you smile to them? Often children act to elicit the emotional response they desire. For example mom is pissed cause child did something he shouldn't have but child smiles to her because he can't tolerate seeing her upset at them and they hope to elicit the reassuring emotional response they learned to expect when they smile to mom.

Is it manipulation? Or is it a much more complicated situation that requires that the adult offers reassurance that the world doesn't end if mom is pissed and she doesn't love her child less for it, but on the other hand it must be also clear that mom has good reason to be pissed and that certain actions will cause mom to be upset and that the best way to avoid it is to stop doing those actions.

A lot more complicated right? But we are the adults and avoiding those uclear situations that favour the ingraining of manipulative behaviours is up to us. Clarity of communication of our expectations (and teaching it to children too) in a developmental appropriate way is always the best way to avoid manipulative behaviours. 

Sorry for the long rant, but I have a lot to say about manipulative behaviours.

[Dandruff]

9 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

I think I said this before, but as a father of two sons who plans on having endless children, I hope he gets peed on every day of his life.

I'm very glad that Sam is a boy and hope that any future children of theirs are too.  Didn't Jill say she intends to implement the same protections for her children that her parents did, due to Josh's behavior?  I suspect that the boys will be much less likely to be treated as potential molestors if they don't have sisters living with them.

I believe Derick's recent tweets are at least partially intended to repair damage to his image from his Jazz tweets, among "Counting" viewers.  

[laPapessaGiovanna]

13 hours ago, calimojo said:

Learning to manipulate is actually something that we all do.  And we will employ non-malignant manipulation our whole lives.  We behave in a way that is likely to produce the result that we want.  This is a key part of human nature.  And we quickly learn if we behave in an oppositional way to what we want, that makes our life more difficult.  Our parents even teach us to be manipulative.  How many parents over the years haven't told their kid at the grocery store that if they behave, they will get a reward?  We are manipulating through bribery the good behavior of the kid, while teaching the kid that by behaving in a certain way,  they have a predictable result of a reward in some way. 

Sorry but again no. There's a reason if psychology defines this as positive reinforcement and not manipulation, and surprise surprise it is because it's not manipulation. In the rest of your post that I haven't quoted where you talk about dogs you recognise that deceit is a key part of manipulation. Where is the deceit when I tell my daughter that I'll reward her if she behaves?

It may be deceitful if I don't intend to follow through with the reward she earned. Or if I put her in a situation where she can't fully grasp and I try to trick her into doing what she wouldn't do if she had known what it entailed. For example I can tell her that she'll have ice cream if she eats the whole dinner. But I don't tell her there will be peas in the risotto. My daughter can't stand peas and they'll make her puke. If I am being honest I'll tell her in advance and she won't be up for the game cause no reward on earth will make her eat peas. In one case I tried to manipulate her in the other I didn't.

When the situation is completely clear and the communication is clear too for all the parts involved we don't have manipulation. We may have bibery, we may have blackmailing but no manipulation (ETA in psychology they are however considered manipulative behaviour because you try to coerce with unfair means).

Same for what you call "non malignant manipulation", those are either socially acceptable and expected behaviours that involve clear communication and clear knowledge of the situation of all the parts involved involved or not. In the first case it's not manipulation, in the second it is.

Non malignant manipulation exists, it is manipulation when it's done for good. For example when I trick my daughter to medicate her. She's ill, she absolutely needs medication but I know she won't accept it so I have to manipulate her into it without telling her the full truth. I choose knowing that it's my responsibility to get her her meds and I choose the lesser evil but I know that it involves deceit and it's definitely manipulation.

[LacyMay]

I think there's a difference between learning to manipulate people (if I confront this person with x behaviour I will get Y result) Ie: If I throw a fit I might get the chocolate bar I want.  Young children don't view it as manipulation but as using the tools they have to get the thing they want.  And learning to manipulate your environment. (Currently this is what environment looks like but if I do x I can change it) Ie Throwing a toy off a high chair tray to have someone retrieve it. That child is learning that they have the tools to change (even slightly) their environment. The toy that was once on the tray is now on the floor because of an action they took.

We tend to automatically think of manipulating as a bad thing where the person is being conniving or sneaky to get what they want. But really all it is is exhibiting control or influence over something whether it be a person, situation or setting. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

46 minutes ago, LacyMay said:

We tend to automatically think of manipulating as a bad thing where the person is being conniving or sneaky to get what they want. But really all it is is exhibiting control or influence over something whether it be a person, situation or setting. 

It has negative connotations because of the difference between people and objects. You act on objects, you interact with people. You cannot manipulate sentient people who have rights and a will in the same way you manipulate objects, because people aren't objects. When you try to treat people like objects in that you want to bend them to your will without taking into account their own will there are obvious negative connotations.

ETA the concept of manipulation cannotbe applied to humas with a positive connotation because positive manipulation is only applicable to objects. Objectification of people is always negative.

[feministxtian]

child tosses item to floor "hey...gravity!" Mom picks it up "hey, cool, gravity can be overcome". Toss to floor "yep, there's that gravity thing again!" Lather, rinse, repeat. They're not manipulators. they're little physicists in training!

Child runs into wall, bangs head. "Hmm...wall didn't move. Let me see if it'll move this time. Nope...ok, time to stop banging head into wall, it won't move". 

Mom knows child will have a hissy fit in the store. 2 ways of handling it. First is "discipline" as in "if you act up in the store I will take you outside". Second is positive reinforcement/reward..."if you behave in the store, mommy will buy you a treat". Either way, child is being taught there are certain expected behaviors. 

Me? I did all of the above. It depended on the circumstance...

[JillyO]

You're really just talking semantics here. While one definition of "manipulating" is simply "to manage or utilize skillfully," Derrick clearly meant the more common, negatively connotated definition of "to control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one's own advantage" when describing Izzy's actions.

Definitions from Merriam-Webster (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/manipulate).

[Timetraveler]

I am so hoping they will have only boys. No girls for the Dillards please. Derick is probably the type of 'father' to become angry at his teenage daughters for not "having enough self control" when they are on their periods.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

11 minutes ago, JillyO said:

You're really just talking semantics here. While one definition of "manipulating" is simply "to manage or utilize skillfully,"

But this one definition cannot apply to humans in a positive way. Would you have positive feelings about me "utilising you skillfully"?

ETA Its positive connotation is limited to objects.

[JillyO]

3 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

But this one definition cannot apply to humans in a positive way. Would you have positive feelings about me "utilising you skillfully"?

I wasn't saying that at all. I just noted that there are several definitions of the same word, but very obviously only one of those definitions is applicable to what Derrick said.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

13 minutes ago, JillyO said:

I wasn't saying that at all. I just noted that there are several definitions of the same word, but very obviously only one of those definitions is applicable to what Derrick said.

Sorry I misunderstood what you meant.

[HurricaneBells]

5 hours ago, LovelyLuna said:

Derick is reaching Jill Rodrigues level of being a disappointing human being.  Gone forever is the goofy love sick puppy from Nepal.  

My friend called me when her 3 year old lied to her for the first time.  She took something (a q-tip) and said she didn’t have it.  Mom wanted to talk about how excited she was that the child had reached a milestone. Neurons were growing, concepts and ideas were changing, skills were achieved. She of course couldn't show the child she was excited and so it was a memorable moment shared between two adults.  She gently explained that lying is not ok and then went on with life.  The child is not a serial lier. I feel sorry for the poor Dillard boys.

I used to work with a girl who had a very spoilt and sassy (but cute!) 6 yo. So one day school calls, she isnt feeling well, its dramatic, they are concerned. Both mum and dad leave work, pick her up and go to the drs. After half an hour waiting, they get in and she says to all of them haha gotchya just joking. LOL! 6! God help them when she is 16!