Bates the 20th

[Tangy Bee]

2 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

See, I'm not sure about private texts or calls. I'm pretty sure that's just for the pre-courting stage and after they start courting they can have private texts. Someone else may need to confirm that though.

Now this is what really pisses me off. We have "adults" who need family to moniter calls or text messages. Do they realize how ridiculous this is. So some courting fundies pushing 30 actual agree with this?? Wait, even a 20 something should not have family all in their conversations. I'm having flashbacks of Zach's 1st courtship. Does anyone recall how he ran through the house to show everyone his text messages? That was just awful for a grown ass man to have to do that!

[actuallyjessica]

JB said either Jill or Jessa (can't remember who) wasn't allowed private texts with their man. I think Kelly has said private texts were ok,but I don't know from what stage.

If I'm remembering correctly Zach and Whitney didn't have any text chaperones (lmao) during courtship, but after engagement I think they did. I'm guessing this is when the kiss happened and they needed to pull back the reigns so nothing else happened.

Erin and Chad didn't have private texts, even during engagement. I remember they said they enjoyed the family participating. Kind of weird, but.. it was the first real courtship/engagement so maybe they were weirdly excited.

Can't remember what Alyssa or Michael did.

[marmalade]

3 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

See, I'm not sure about private texts or calls. I'm pretty sure that's just for the pre-courting stage and after they start courting they can have private texts. Someone else may need to confirm that though.

Benessa confessed not long ago to private texts during courting. I think Jill/D-Wreck was all group texts up through the wedding day. I'm not sure when the Bateses began to allow private texts, or if even Zachney did them (Zachney, btw, was only about 6 months from courthship to altar, not sure how long he'd been hitting on her at re that) The story Kelly posted above confirms that it was Cherin who had a super long "getting to know you" period. Not sure when Brandon was allowed to start talking with Michael in relation to when they started courting. She'd had her eye on him for years, but they weren't "getting to know" each other that entire time. I know the courtship was rather long, because they were waiting for him to graduate. 

[VelociRapture]

7 hours ago, marmalade said:

Benessa confessed not long ago to private texts during courting. I think Jill/D-Wreck was all group texts up through the wedding day. I'm not sure when the Bateses began to allow private texts, or if even Zachney did them (Zachney, btw, was only about 6 months from courthship to altar, not sure how long he'd been hitting on her at re that) The story Kelly posted above confirms that it was Cherin who had a super long "getting to know you" period. Not sure when Brandon was allowed to start talking with Michael in relation to when they started courting. She'd had her eye on him for years, but they weren't "getting to know" each other that entire time. I know the courtship was rather long, because they were waiting for him to graduate. 

Kelly has stated Zachney got to know each other for about a year and a half before officially courting. Whit apparently really helped him work through his emotions after Sarah ended things - same with Andy Leftwich (Zach's Best Man) and John-David Duggar (a Groomsman.)

8 hours ago, actuallyjessica said:

If I'm remembering correctly Zach and Whitney didn't have any text chaperones (lmao) during courtship, but after engagement I think they did. I'm guessing this is when the kiss happened and they needed to pull back the reigns so nothing else happened.

Erin and Chad didn't have private texts, even during engagement. I remember they said they enjoyed the family participating. Kind of weird, but.. it was the first real courtship/engagement so maybe they were weirdly excited.

Can't remember what Alyssa or Michael did.

This is interesting. I could have sworn I saw her make a comment on the old blog about Cherin having private texts or calls or something. If I have time later I'll pop in and look around a bit. It'd be interesting if Kelly got it wrong or flat out changed the story. 

And Zach had apparently told his parents he wanted to propose that October with a spring wedding. Kelly claims he was too excited to wait and had even showed Whit the ring via text ahead of time. I'm thinking you're right that the kids happened around that time.

ETA: My phone autocorrected "kiss" to "kids." I thought it was way funnier this way. 

[elizasc]

Not sure if there is a separate Webster thread right now but just noticed this in a front page NYT article on ACA/ repeal. (So mods feel free to move)

'For more than six million Americans older than 64, Medicaid pays for nursing homes and other long-term care that they would never otherwise be able to afford, while Medicare covers their medical care.
The threat to such care propelled Representative Webster, whose Central Florida district includes The Villages, a retirement community with more than 150,000 residents, to lean “no” on the bill.'

[Tangy Bee]

3 minutes ago, elizasc said:

Not sure if there is a separate Webster thread right now but just noticed this in a front page NYT article on ACA/ repeal. (So mods feel free to move)

'For more than six million Americans older than 64, Medicaid pays for nursing homes and other long-term care that they would never otherwise be able to afford, while Medicare covers their medical care.
The threat to such care propelled Representative Webster, whose Central Florida district includes The Villages, a retirement community with more than 150,000 residents, to lean “no” on the bill.'

Ok I'm seriously having a brain fart moment. What does this all mean??

[Italiangirl]

51 minutes ago, Tangy Bee said:

Ok I'm seriously having a brain fart moment. What does this all mean??

Happy to see i'm not the only one confuse. I ecen try to translate but still didn't understand well

[VelociRapture]

58 minutes ago, Tangy Bee said:

Ok I'm seriously having a brain fart moment. What does this all mean??

@elizascThey don't have their own thread because they aren't that interesting. They've become more private than even Michael and Brandon Keilen. So this thread is fine for Webster news.

--------

Representative Daniel Webster is father of John Webster, husband of Alyssa Bates. He is a member of the ultra-conservative Freedom Caucus that would have voted no on repealing the ACA (Obamacare) and replace it with Trumpcare.

The important thing to remember, however, is this - they would have voted no because they thought Trumpcare was too generous and liberal. They wouldn't have been happy with offering an bill other than one that covered strictly catastrophic care. Meaning they don't support requiring insurance companies to cover maternity care, prenatal care, pediatric care, etc. So while they would have voted the right way on the bill, it was absolutely for all the wrong reasons. 

Also, fun fact - Daniel Webster is known as "Taliban Dan" because he basically wants to implement Biblical law across the US. He's a real winner. 

ETA: House Republicans made Trumpcare even worse in order to appeal to the Freedom Caucus. Here's an article listing the ten essential benefits the ACA guaranteed that Trumpcare would have eliminated:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/03/republicans-may-have-saved-trumpcare-by-making-even-crueler.html

Also tagging @Italiangirlso she can see this too. If you have other questions, let me know.

[seraaa]

1 hour ago, elizasc said:

Not sure if there is a separate Webster thread right now but just noticed this in a front page NYT article on ACA/ repeal. (So mods feel free to move)

'For more than six million Americans older than 64, Medicaid pays for nursing homes and other long-term care that they would never otherwise be able to afford, while Medicare covers their medical care.
The threat to such care propelled Representative Webster, whose Central Florida district includes The Villages, a retirement community with more than 150,000 residents, to lean “no” on the bill.'

Ha!

Total people who like this bill:

• Paul Ryan
• the people who wrote it
• About three of Paul Ryan's friends

And there's probably overlap between those last two groups

[Italiangirl]

Thanks @VelociRapture so how do they think thise cost coild be covered if their proposal passed? If someone of them need something that ivolved the hospital? Lay midwife for homebirth and SAHM and daughters ?

[VelociRapture]

One last thing:

We won a reprieve on Friday when Republicans pulled the Trumpcare bill... but only a reprieve. House Republicans met today and resolved to work together on legislation in the future. That includes the Trumpcare bill. They offered no timeline for repealing and implementing a replacement. But they made it clear they'll be working on it and intend to try again.

So FJers in red states who enjoy having insurance, you need to continue calling and pressuring your asshole Reps to knock it the fuck off.

[formergothardite]

14 minutes ago, Italiangirl said:

Thanks @VelociRapture so how do they think thise cost coild be covered if their proposal passed? If someone of them need something that ivolved the hospital? Lay midwife for homebirth and SAHM and daughters ?

They literally  don't care. These people think poor people should just die if they don't  have the money for treatment.

[VelociRapture]

Just now, Italiangirl said:

Thanks @VelociRapture so how do they think thise cost coild be covered if their proposal passed? If someone of them need something that ivolved the hospital? Lay midwife for homebirth and SAHM and daughters ?

Basically, this is their thinking for the average citizen:

- want kids, but can't afford them without insurance? Too bad. You don't have kids you can't afford. It's fiscally irresponsible.

- but don't think we're going to cover your birth control you hussy. Pay for your devil pills yourself.

- what's that? You can't afford the devil pills because they're $150 a pack? Just don't have sex then. Even if you're married. It's the only valid form of avoiding pregnancy. <------- (actual cost of my birth control. I was charged the full amount last time - husband still needs to call and ask the insurance company about that, since it should be free under the ACA.)

- you're pregnant? Well you certainly can't abort. That's murder! No, you have to deal with the consequences and keep the baby.

- you have horrible morning sickness and need the ER? That'll be $3,000 please. <----- (total cost for my ER visit for morning sickness.)

- want to be responsible and get prenatal care from your provider? Ha! That's no longer covered. If you can't afford to pay for appointments out of pocket then you should have kept your legs shut you slut.

- you had a miscarriage and need emergency care at the hospital? Please fork over $6,000 to pay for it. <----- (if I remember correctly, this was the total ER cost of my miscarriage.)

- had your baby in the hospital and stayed for two nights? You owe the Hospital $19,000. Pay promptly or we'll send debt collectors after you. <------- (actual cost of my hospital stay after my daughter's birth.)

- you went into labor prematurely and need your baby to spend a week in NICU (Neonatal Intensive Care Unit)? Please pay $65,000 out of pocket. Because the Governnent doesn't care about your baby's health or your family going bankrupt. <------- (my daughter's weeklong NICU stay last December cost around that much.)

(Thanks to Insurance, we only had to pay around $3,000 out of all those costs.)

-------------

Their thinking for themselves/their own families:

- no need to worry about anything because we're entitled to excellent coverage through our jobs. Yay us!

-----------

So, long story short: families will either need to save up a ton of money ahead of a pregnancy, forego adequate healthcare, or just not have children in general. I told my husband I will absolutely refuse to get pregnant again if they repeal the ACA (Affordable Care Act) because I won't risk our family losing everything if something goes wrong again.

[Italiangirl]

shit thank you so much @VelociRapture i can wrap my head around this way of thinking but thas my problem.... i really want to scroll them down to see if they can understand something but i'm not positive on that. aniway hope you all fjers from the us could find a way to win this battle. good luck 

[Kelsey]

57 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Basically, this is their thinking for the average citizen:

(snipped for length)

I think what we are going to see is a return of people using the ER for their health needs. So, you may get pregnant and get all your care at the local health department and then when it's "time" you present to the emergency room and the doctor on call delivers the baby. Since you don't have 19k (most likely) to pay the bill- you stiff the hospital and ruin your credit. Repeat as necessary.

[Pasta]

So the old white men are saying if you have a vagina fuck you? I hate trump, pence, and all of the dick followers. I'm so tired of the bs. Like why can't they just accept that America has more than them in it?

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

Basically, this is their thinking for the average citizen:

(snipped)

And you forgot the best part and crux of this entire thing.

Sex is only for married people and women can never say '"no"  or cross their legs.

SO, WOMEN ARE REDUCED TO GESTATING ISOLETTES  AND MUST CONTINUE TO HAVE CHILDREN EVEN IF THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO TAKE CARE OF THEM... AND SCREW ALL THESE PROCREATED CHILDREN.

[VelociRapture]

1 minute ago, SassyPants said:

And you forget the best part and crux of this entire thing.

Sex is only for married people and women can never say '"no"  or cross their legs.

SO, WOMEN ARE REDUCED TO GESTATING ISOLETTES  AND MUST CONTINUE TO HAVE CHILDREN EVEN IF THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO TAKE CARE OF THEM... AND SCREW ALL THESE PROCREATED CHILDREN.

Exactly. And this is only a view on my personal parenthood journey. We have users on this site who have faced far worse - micropreemies with long NICU stays, lots of prenatal interventions, fertility treatments, etc. The cost to families and individuals could be absolutely astronomical if they manage to get rid of those protections.

Not to mention the impact it could have on other types of care. We could see a return to the days where people literally had to decide between dying and bankrupting their families.  

-------

So. FJers. This is what the Bateses and Duggars stand for. These are the politicians they helped get elected. The Bateses even married a daughter into one of these families. They don't just tolerate these views - they endorse them via voting and marriage and social media.

Their views are harmful. Their beliefs are dangerous. And they're in a powerful position now to force their agenda on all of us in the states, whether we like it or not.

[Bazinga]

Alyssa looks like she is right back to shilling products on her Insta (or at least I'm going to assume she  did not buy all of those phone cases and then feel the need to Insta them and tag the company).

[actuallyjessica]

29 minutes ago, Bazinga said:

Alyssa looks like she is right back to shilling products on her Insta (or at least I'm going to assume she  did not buy all of those phone cases and then feel the need to Insta them and tag the company).

Good for her, she's earning money.

[eleanora3]

18 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

They're never allowed to truly be one-on-one before marriage.

Kelly seems to view pre-courting as the normal stage where you get to know someone on a more superficial level. Likes, dislikes, etc. Courtship is their period where they get to know each other on a deeper level to see whether or not they are capitable for marriage. Engagement is for planning the wedding.

What makes no sense is, if you call someone "boyfriend/girlfriend" in the pre-courting phase, you can still have 20-30 "breakups" before finding the one! Which supposedly they are trying to avoid.

[lumpentheologie]

4 hours ago, eleanora3 said:

What makes no sense is, if you call someone "boyfriend/girlfriend" in the pre-courting phase, you can still have 20-30 "breakups" before finding the one! Which supposedly they are trying to avoid.

This "20-30 breakups" idea is so weird to me. I have probably casually dated 20-30 people, but when you just go on a couple of dates with someone to see if you like them, deciding you don't is hardly a "breakup" that's going to traumatize you and steal pieces of your heart. It's called learning about yourself and other people, and what you like and don't like. Ideally something that should be done before you get married. I get that some people are happy marrying the first person they ever went on a date with, but to me that seems like nothing but incredibly good luck, not how young adults should plan for their future.

It seems more to me like a kind of fundie slut-shaming, like God forbid your daughter would ever have dinner and talk with 20-30 men!  What a hussy! 

 

[Kangaroo]

6 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

 what's that? You can't afford the devil pills because they're $150 a pack? Just don't have sex then. Even if you're married. It's the only valid form of avoiding pregnancy. <------- (actual cost of my birth control. I was charged the full amount last time - husband still needs to call and ask the insurance company about that, since it should be free under the ACA.)

 

So I don't know what the out of pocket costs for things like hospital admission are here, but the birth control pill I'm on costs me less than $10 USD for a box of 4 (so 4 month's supply), and my doctor's visit gives 2 repeat scripts so I can get it for the year. I'm not on any sort of low income discounts or anything. 

My doctor's visit costs $30 USD out of pocket, but I can visit a doctor for free, its just harder to make an appointment (but we're talking 2 wait days instead of today) or you have to wait for a while until it's your turn.

I can't even fathom how much American medical expenses are, but this one stuck out the most to me.

I know medical expenses are a massive issue in the US, but I guess it just really hadn't clicked until now.

[VelociRapture]

11 minutes ago, Kangaroo said:

So I don't know what the out of pocket costs for things like hospital admission are here, but the birth control pill I'm on costs me less than $10 USD for a box of 4 (so 4 month's supply), and my doctor's visit gives 2 repeat scripts so I can get it for the year. I'm not on any sort of low income discounts or anything. 

My doctor's visit costs $30 USD out of pocket, but I can visit a doctor for free, its just harder to make an appointment (but we're talking 2 wait days instead of today) or you have to wait for a while until it's your turn.

I can't even fathom how much American medical expenses are, but this one stuck out the most to me.

I know medical expenses are a massive issue in the US, but I guess it just really hadn't clicked until now.

Yep. We have a HSA (Health Savings Account) insurance plan. Basically, you can put money into that account tax free and use it for medical expenses. The insurance company pays any additional costs after you hit your deductible. Which sounds good until you consider that a lot of Americans can't afford to put money away like that and deductibles are usually thousands of dollars. We hit our's last year before our daughter was born because of my two prior hospital visits and Doctor appointments. So we ultimately didn't need to worry about paying for any of the bills we wracked up. Worrying about that was the last thing we needed.

The pharmacy tech indicated my HSA was the reason for the price of the medicine. Which makes no sense to me because under the ACA birth control is supposed to be free. So husband needs to call the insurance company and double check with them to be sure we're getting the proper coverage.

(I don't believe you have copays with HSAs. With a traditional plan you would - so someone with a traditional account would pay only $20 for a medicine I would pay full price for. It sucks, but we don't have much choice. It's either this plan through my husband's work or likely paying more for a plan we find on our own, which may not be better than what we have now.) 

39 minutes ago, lumpentheologie said:

This "20-30 breakups" idea is so weird to me. I have probably casually dated 20-30 people, but when you just go on a couple of dates with someone to see if you like them, deciding you don't is hardly a "breakup" that's going to traumatize you and steal pieces of your heart. It's called learning about yourself and other people, and what you like and don't like. Ideally something that should be done before you get married. I get that some people are happy marrying the first person they ever went on a date with, but to me that seems like nothing but incredibly good luck, not how young adults should plan for their future.

It seems more to me like a kind of fundie slut-shaming, like God forbid your daughter would ever have dinner and talk with 20-30 men!  What a hussy! 

 

I married my first abd only boyfriend. Couldn't agree with this more. It was sheer dumb luck that it happened that way. 

[GreyhoundFan]

21 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

So. FJers. This is what the Bateses and Duggars stand for. These are the politicians they helped get elected. The Bateses even married a daughter into one of these families. They don't just tolerate these views - they endorse them via voting and marriage and social media.

 

 

Their views are harmful. Their beliefs are dangerous. And they're in a powerful position now to force their agenda on all of us in the states, whether we like it or not.

I wish I could upvote this 1,000 times. While it's true that Bradley is cute, Erin has nice hair, and Alyssa may be wearing pants, it doesn't negate the fact that they are putting a pretty face on some ugly beliefs.  They laughed about using the ER for doctor's visits (I think it was in United Bates of America or the 20/20 special), which increases costs for the rest of us. They don't want all fellow Americans to have good healthcare, reasonably priced college, and guaranteed retirement income. They want America to be right for people who are the "right" type of Christians because Jesus. Anyone who doesn't fall into that category doesn't count. Frankly, I didn't realize how ugly their beliefs were until joining FJ and really reading into their background and some of the incredibly informative links that get posted here. As someone with chronic health issues, I worry about what Taliban Dan and his buddies are going to do to our country.