Lori Alexander 13: Transformed and Still Judgey

[ViolaSebastian]

As far as that doodle is concerned, I'm not interested in how the average male on the street views or values me. That's his problem, not mine. I'd like to think I'd be valued as a human being, but I'm too old to believe that every man considers me one--and that has nothing to do with how short my skirt happens to be.

[polecat]

1 hour ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

Submission doesn't mean you don't offer input and come up with a plan together. You had a very efficient plan.  

We are looking for a new house right now.  We both agreed we need a bigger place, yet we waited until he decided the time was right financially.  

We both needed work on our cars, but they were both still running. Yet I asked him which he thought was priority and followed his request to go ahead and have my car fixed since he said his could wait a little longer. 

I also follow simple requests such as setting his computer on sleep instead of shutting it all the way off or buy a certain brand of food etc.

It really is no major deal. I am free to speak my opinion, and he is respectful of my preferences as well.  Also, I could make decisions on my own if he were away or I'll.  

 

What would qualify a man as a "wuss"?

A man who does not "lead" the home is automatically "wussy," perhaps, or is a man who is simply not "manly" enough according to some subjective determination a wuss? 

[Free Jana Duggar]

23 minutes ago, polecat said:

What would qualify a man as a "wuss"?

A man who does not "lead" the home is automatically "wussy," perhaps, or is a man who is simply not "manly" enough according to some subjective determination a wuss? 

I'm thinking of a man like Jon Gosselin. He let Kate run all over him and never stood up to her. 

I felt so bad for him the time she yelled at him and threw a receipt in his face demanding he return something.  He simply hung his head and did her bidding.

Maybe it's not a man/woman issue. I hate to see anyone treated like that. Of course, maybe he finally did stand up  and that's why they are no longer together.

[Koala]

2 hours ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

Submission doesn't mean you don't offer input and come up with a plan together. You had a very efficient plan.  

We are looking for a new house right now.  We both agreed we need a bigger place, yet we waited until he decided the time was right financially.  

We both needed work on our cars, but they were both still running. Yet I asked him which he thought was priority and followed his request to go ahead and have my car fixed since he said his could wait a little longer. 

I also follow simple requests such as setting his computer on sleep instead of shutting it all the way off or buy a certain brand of food etc.

It really is no major deal. I am free to speak my opinion, and he is respectful of my preferences as well.  Also, I could make decisions on my own if he were away or I'll.  

Is there a particular reason that you can't be an active participant in making decisions instead of just offering your opinion and then doing what he says?

Surely he's not an expert at everything, and there are times when you are better equipped to make the final decision.

For example, here's how my husband and I do things (we've been together nearly 20 years, married for 16):

Decisions are make based on: 

1) Who will be impacted most by the decision

2) Who feels the strongest

3) Who has the most knowledge in a particular area

We have never once had a decision that wasn't easily settled by applying these three principles. 99.9% were on the same page anyway.  I actually can't even think of an example of when we weren't.

Big things like a house should be discussed and agreed upon by the pair of you.  That's a HUGE decision, and you will both be impacted.  That's the kind of thing we'd sit down at the table and talk about until we set terms that both of us were happy with.

You mentioned buying particular brands of food.  We have this issue with bath soap.  My husband likes one brand, and I like pink Dove.  The solution is not for me to buy his green soap and pat myself on the back for submitting.  I buy both.  He has his, I have mine.  We use the same amount of soap anyway.  Same for food.  If I like a certain kind of chips and he'd prefer crackers, I just buy both and save the extra for later.  No need for either of us to go without. No need for anyone to submit.

An example:  We are planning to make 2 large purchases for our home this year.  He knows the most about which should be done first, I know the most about which month it will be most financially responsible to do those things.  

Solution?  He prioritized which should be done first, I decided which months we should have them done.

Another example:

I need a new suv this year. Actually, I needed a new suv LAST year.  That said, I felt certain I could get one more year out of my mini van, so we decided to wait until I felt that I really needed one.  Why?  It's the car I drive.  He assumes that I know more about it than he does, and will speak up when I am finally sick of pouring money into this one.  Honestly, I think he's kind of impressed that I've kept it as long as I have.  He says his mother would have demanded a new one eons ago.  I am cheap though, so there's that.  I freaking LOVE not having a car payment.

Finally, you say:

Quote

I could make decisions on my own if he were away or I'll.  

No, you could make decisions NOW.  He doesn't have to be ill or away...you're a grown woman!

Why on earth would one adult need you to abdicate all of the final decision making to him? And why him?  If he thinks submission is so peachy, then let him submit and just offer his opinion while you have the final say in everything.

Okay...that's all...someone want to help me off this soap box?  My blood pressure is probably through the roof.
 

[desertvixen]

You do some of your best work up there, though, @Koala!

[polecat]

35 minutes ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

I'm thinking of a man like Jon Gosselin. He let Kate run all over him and never stood up to her. 

I felt so bad for him the time she yelled at him and threw a receipt in his face demanding he return something.  He simply hung his head and did her bidding.

Maybe it's not a man/woman issue. I hate to see anyone treated like that. Of course, maybe he finally did stand up  and that's why they are no longer together.

 

Kate Gosselin was abusive, imo, and her husband was, in many ways, emotionally and verbally abused (also imo). 

Mr. Polecat makes few decisions in our household. He spends days, nights, weekends, holidays cutting accident victims out of mangled cars, checking gas leaks, putting out fires in sub-zero temps or 100+ degree temps and checking the chirping sound for little old ladies (check the batteries on your smoke detectors, people!). And that's his volunteer job. He's paged during meals, family get-togethers, date nights and shopping trips. He drops everything to help other people. And again -- all voluntary. Sometimes, he has to answer the call even when there is no call, like the time there was a medical emergency in the middle of the grocery store while we were shopping (three toddlers in tow). His regular job is even scarier. Mr. Polecat spends virtually every waking minute making life-or-death decisions. So I make virtually every decision for our family in order to make HIS life easier. Mr. Polecat couldn't care less if someone thought he was a wuss.

But I do. It infuriates me that people like Lori actually think he's a less worthy man because he doesn't walk around flailing his dick around and commanding me to do this and that. I'm sick to DEATH of the emasculating bullshit that comes spewing out of the mouth of patriarchal sexists, and they don't even GET IT. My husband's my hero. Full stop. 

[Koala]

1 hour ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

I'm thinking of a man like Jon Gosselin. He let Kate run all over him and never stood up to her. 

I felt so bad for him the time she yelled at him and threw a receipt in his face demanding he return something.  He simply hung his head and did her bidding.

Maybe it's not a man/woman issue. I hate to see anyone treated like that. Of course, maybe he finally did stand up  and that's why they are no longer together.

I agree with @polecat, Kate is abusive.  I'd hate to even think of what she's like off camera.  

No one should be treated that way, and honestly, I would never call someone who was being emotionally abused a "wuss".  He may very well have felt he had no choice.  He may have been trying to keep the situation from escalating in front of his kids.  Who knows...abuse is very complicated.  

Why is it that no one (or at least no decent person) would call a female abuse victim a wimp, but the minute a man is abused we call him a wuss?

Anyway, the fact that Kate is an absolute monster is no reason for the rest of womankind to humbly abdicate all final decisions to men. 

 

[Pukingpearl]

4 hours ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

Submission doesn't mean you don't offer input and come up with a plan together. You had a very efficient plan.  

We are looking for a new house right now.  We both agreed we need a bigger place, yet we waited until he decided the time was right financially.  

We both needed work on our cars, but they were both still running. Yet I asked him which he thought was priority and followed his request to go ahead and have my car fixed since he said his could wait a little longer. 

I also follow simple requests such as setting his computer on sleep instead of shutting it all the way off or buy a certain brand of food etc.

It really is no major deal. I am free to speak my opinion, and he is respectful of my preferences as well.  Also, I could make decisions on my own if he were away or I'll.  

Your definition of submission is vastly different from many other people's. honestly to me this sounds like your spouse is the financial planner in the relationship and knows more about cars, and you're a decent person who does small kind things for your spouse.

For many women under patriarchy, submission does in fact mean not offering input, suppressing emotions or opinions even when they're completely valid, having sex with their spouses when they don't want to, not being able to attain or use education, and giving up autonomy over their own lives. 

[Hisey]

We settle issues almost exactly as Koala does. And it has worked 100% of the time. In fact, I don't really get Lori's trouble with getting her own way. Mostly, when we disagree, it's because I'm trying to care for him and he is trying to care for me.

Mr. Hisey: Where should we go to dinner?

Hisey (knowing he loves Chinese food): How about Chinese?

Mr. Hisey: Oh, you must be getting sick of that. Didn't you say there was a new restaurant downtown you wanted to try?

Hisey (still trying give him the Chinese food he craves): Yes, but it's a bit of a drive. Maybe we could go there on the weekend when traffic is not so bad. Let's go to the Chinese tonight, you know you have your mouth all ready for it.

Mr. Hisey (succuumbing, he really loves Chinese food): OK, but only if we go to your restaurant this Saturday. 

See? It's a "conflict", but a conflict that involves each person trying to please the other. In mature relationships, Lori, you get a lot of pleasure from making your partner happy.

That's how small decisions are handled. The big ones are decided by who knows the most and cares the most. It's really very easy.

I'm not saying our relationship is perfect, because it isn't. But we've never felt the need for a "leader" to have the "final say." It's just never been a problem doing it this way.

[Free Jana Duggar]

4 minutes ago, Pukingpearl said:

 

For many women under patriarchy, submission does in fact mean not offering input, suppressing emotions or opinions even when they're completely valid, having sex with their spouses when they don't want to, not being able to attain or use education, and giving up autonomy over their own lives. 

Yea, maybe I view submission differently. My husband asks for my input. He values my education and even encouraged me to get my Master's, but we are still mostly old fashioned with the gender roles, but he will cook and do laundry occasionally.

And I would not fall apart if he were ill or away. I know how to grab important papers and pack a suitcase to evacuate my neighborhood in a fire. LOL

[Koala]

22 minutes ago, Hisey said:

Mostly, when we disagree, it's because I'm trying to care for him and he is trying to care for me.

doing it this way.

Love this, and it's the same way here.  It's kind of amazing, isn't it?

When Ken was here he mentioned something about submission only coming into play (I guess to settle a disagreement) a few times a week...something like that. 

Anyway, I couldn't help but wonder what on earth they were arguing about several times a week.  
 

[louisa05]

4 hours ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

Submission doesn't mean you don't offer input and come up with a plan together. You had a very efficient plan.  

We are looking for a new house right now.  We both agreed we need a bigger place, yet we waited until he decided the time was right financially.  

We both needed work on our cars, but they were both still running. Yet I asked him which he thought was priority and followed his request to go ahead and have my car fixed since he said his could wait a little longer. 

I also follow simple requests such as setting his computer on sleep instead of shutting it all the way off or buy a certain brand of food etc.

It really is no major deal. I am free to speak my opinion, and he is respectful of my preferences as well.  Also, I could make decisions on my own if he were away or I'll.  

Why does he have to decide when the time is right to look for a house? Why is that not a joint decision? We are planning to buy in the spring or summer, but it was a joint decision after a joint discussion of our financial situation. 

Why do you consider his requests about his computer "leading"? I don't consider my husband asking me to use his stuff in a certain way to be "leadership" in any way. I ask him to use mine in certain ways, too. I'm not sure in what world that would be considered leadership. As for food, if he is the one who is primarily eating it, then he gets to make a request even though I do the shopping. I don't eat cereal, so I ask him what kind he wants. But I don't know how that is in any way an example of him being the leader of the house nor is it me submitting. What it is is basic courtesy to the human I live with. It has nothing to do with his having a penis or my lacking one. Or do you bow to his preference for food you both eat even if it is not your own? If so, why? Why not buy two boxes of cereal or whatever it is? Why not switch off so you both get what you like? And how does getting his way about brands of food protect your husband from being a wuss? 

Sorry, I don't get it. And I don't think it is necessary. I think the notion that men must somehow "lead" the house is leftover patriarchy bullshit that doesn't belong in the 21st Century. 

[Imrlgoddess]

I'm coming in late to the game and there a lot to quote to I'm just going to try & summarize where I can.

WRT the "male, wuss" & thus Kate Gosslin:  for me personally, I can't handle a man who is overly sensitive. My nature is what I call tomboyish, others have coined it as a masculine streak. I can be logical, structured, "by God, make a decision & stick to it". Indecisiveness in a male puts me off as does overt emotion. Both men to whom I've been married have been called assholes by others. My first husband was quite manipulative & emotionally abusive. Ironically, it paired (not so) well with my physically abusive tendencies, we'd go toe to toe. The Kate Gosslin bit, I can see where her behavior would be seen as abusive. Honestly, had I ever had to contend with a man who was of a weaker constitution, I'd run slap over him & not really mean to do it. I'd be waiting for him to make a choice & just want to shake him if he waffled. I also have a deep rooted (irrational) problem with men who can't at least change oil on a car.  I would probably be like her, bitchy, short tempered, demanding.... Disrespectful.

Thankfully my current husband & I have an even keel way. We make decisions together but I like the fact that he is willing to work two jobs to allow me to go to college full time. He neither demands that I stay home nor work full time myself. He feels the house & vehicles are his responsibility, keeping us stable & safe. But he doesn't begrudge me the ability to help him with that burden. We're traditional-light. I don't ask permission. I will tell him what I'm planning & ask if he has an issue with it... But when it's all said & done, I make my own money, own my own vehicle, & pour my own drinks. I'll respect his opinion if he has valid issue but I won't be ruled. 

 

 

[polecat]

1 hour ago, Koala said:

When Ken was here he mentioned something about submission only coming into play (I guess to settle a disagreement) a few times a week...something like that. 

Anyway, I couldn't help but wonder what on earth they were arguing about several times a week.  
 

 

And this is what their "happy marriage" looks like. 

I can't even imagine what it was like when they were unhappy.

[Hisey]

Lori did another "youtube"! This time it's about Black Salve and her other home remedies that don't have any "chemicals." And you can comment on this youtube (unlike her others).

The thing that struck me the most occurs at the end. Lori, apparently, has a very-special Norwex (?) washcloth that she loves. She removes her makeup by wetting it, wiping her face, rinsing and repeating. Then she takes the used cloth and drapes it over her tub. She does this every night and HAS NOT WASHED IT FOR FOUR MONTHS. Maybe it is so magical that it self-cleans. In any event, these Norwex cloths are so amazing that she cleans only with water now, except the toilets.

Why do these two things sound kinda dirty and gross to me? Never washing your facecloth? Cleaning only with water? (thank goodness water is not a chemical!)

I was also concerned that she inserts coconut oil into her eye. She says that after her cyberknife proceedure she has dry eyes so she puts a few drops of (organic) castor oil in her eyes each day. Glad it works for her, but I'd be concerned about putting oil in my eye.

 

[Petronella]

11 hours ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

Submission doesn't mean you don't offer input and come up with a plan together. You had a very efficient plan.  

We are looking for a new house right now.  We both agreed we need a bigger place, yet we waited until he decided the time was right financially.  

We both needed work on our cars, but they were both still running. Yet I asked him which he thought was priority and followed his request to go ahead and have my car fixed since he said his could wait a little longer. 

I also follow simple requests such as setting his computer on sleep instead of shutting it all the way off or buy a certain brand of food etc.

It really is no major deal. I am free to speak my opinion, and he is respectful of my preferences as well.  Also, I could make decisions on my own if he were away or I'll.  

Regarding the bolded, does this mean he is also "submitting" to you? Or isn't it really just two people being nice to each other?

And your first sentence: "Submission doesn't mean you don't offer input and come up with a plan together." Actually, yes it does. That is in fact the definition of submission to someone else's leadership. Coming up with a plan TOGETHER is equal, not submissive.

I think what you may be calling submission is actually that you and he have staked out certain territories in the running of the home, which is absolutely normal. Someone who is more knowledgeable about cars looks after the cars. Someone who is better at taxes does the taxes. The other respects that expertise and defers to it, and in other situations it is their own expertise that is respected.

Perhaps in your relationship, the specific areas happen to fall in line with traditional gender roles. That doesn't make it an overarching submission.

I too value a husband who is good at decision-making and voicing his thoughts, but not to be my "leader." I want him to be my partner, and for him to value my decisions and thoughts as well.

[Koala]

I just can't on the video.  She's so ignorant.  Honestly, it's a wonder she's made it this far.  My only hope is that once her readers see her talking, they'll realize that something is really off with her, and won't be as anxious to take her medical advice. 

Advising people to treat their own skin cancer is dangerous and irresponsible.

The UTI thing worries me too.  In the video, Lori mentioned having a UTI over the Christmas holiday.  According to her, it was so bad that she bled.  It sounded familiar to me, so I looked back, and sure enough:

Quote

Several years ago, I got a bladder infection. It was extremely painful. I was even bleeding from it. I did not want to go on antibiotics, however. 

 All snark aside, Lori needs to have a discussion with her doctor about this, if she hasn't already.  It's very concerning that she's having frequent UTIs with bleeding.  

Urinary track infections can be very serious.  My grandmother died from complications from a UTI.  She was 75.  They just didn't catch it in time.  

Moving on.  Loved this comment left on Lori's FB.  I am going to trim it down to just the important parts:

Quote

As a woman who wears yoga pants, I found your post on them to be incredibly offensive. Judging a woman by what she wears seems counter intuitive to being a "godly" woman. Isn't not "judging a book by its cover" one of the first things we teach children? Assuming that women who wear tight pants want to be seen as a "sex object" is choosing to generalize the majority of the female population. What about girls who dance? Are you saying that ballerinas are choosing to be "sex objects" because they have to wear leotards and tights by virtue of their profession? 

Lori:

Quote

If you look how all these athletes dressed in the "olden" days, they were modest since they valued modesty back then unlike today. We were on a beach walk a few days ago and we saw a woman in yoga pants who had a long shirt that covered her up that was in similar material. All athletes can be modest if they choose to be but this is a free country so you can dress as you please but I will continue to encourage women to be modest and discreet since God commands older women to teach younger women this. If you are offended and believe I am judging, you will have to deal with the Lord about this and examine your conscience.

Funny that, because Lori claimed the other day that she'd never seen a woman wear a long shirt over yoga pants.

Reader:

Quote

You CAN wear yoga pants/leggings and match it with a top that's long and loose fitting and be modest, in my opinion.

Lori:

Quote

all the women I see wearing yoga pants wear short shirts and show everything.

But back to the responses on her FB thread:

Lori

Quote

When men say that leggings are immodest, they are immodest regardless of what you believe.

So if men say it, it's automatically true.  What about the men who say Lori's pants and low cut tops are immodest?  If that true regardless of what Lori believes?

Anyway, then that creep who was threatening Lori's readers the other day weighed in.  He even posted a picture of a woman's ass.  She was wearing yoga pants.  Lori didn't bother deleting it.
 

Quote

Josh Jacobs 

As a man, you're wrong OP. It is sexual. We do see you as sex objects when you dress that way and most men will imagine you naked because frankly you're showing off the goods.

Quote

Josh Jacobs 

Women, if you think yoga pants are all about you and your comfort and men will shield their eyes, this image sums up what we see. Young or old. Married or not. Christian or not. You attack me and thats fine but when you walk out like this every heterosexual man will wait for you to pass then watch you walk away until youre gone. It's not sick. We're wired that way. And a good many of those non believers and even some Christians will think about you later. Or your teen daughter in yoga pants.

He is a filthy little creature, and I find it very concerning that he is always mentioning the daughters of Lori's readers.  

He is the face of Lori's future readership.  People like him and that Earl guy who's always whining to Lori about his wife not "giving him enough sex". 

A lot of the women who used to follow her have disappeared, only to be replaced by a bunch of filthy minded basement dwellers, running around pissing and moaning about how women have done them wrong.  Lori will be right at home though...that's definitely her crowd.

[Free Jana Duggar]

3 hours ago, Petronella said:

Regarding the bolded, does this mean he is also "submitting" to you? Or isn't it really just two people being nice to each other?

And your first sentence: "Submission doesn't mean you don't offer input and come up with a plan together." Actually, yes it does. That is in fact the definition of submission to someone else's leadership. Coming up with a plan TOGETHER is equal, not submissive.

Yes, I could be misunderstanding submission. We do work together. I don't do without what I want just to please him only. I will buy things he likes as well as what I like.  

We did discuss when would be a good time to buy a house, but I did go with what he decided on that one. We are also pretty traditional in gender roles at home, but he does cook and do laundry occasionally and I work outside the home.

 

 

[onemama]

Could someone, please, show me the passage in the Bible where men are told to "lead"? 

Those passages that complementarian and patriarchal teachers use to enforce male leadership don't contain the instruction "husbands lead your wives" or "husbands make sure you have the last word, in everything". There is no command for men to lead, no talk about who has "tie-breaking authority". 

Yes, men are called "head of" woman  (in 1st Corinthians 11) in a context that can mean "authority" or "source", but then they are reminded that, excluding that first couple, men have all been born from woman.   Husbands are called "head of" their wives (not their households), as Christ is the head of the Church, of which he is Savior (not Lord, or King).  As "head of" (not over), they are told to love as they love their own bodies, love as Christ loved the church (how, exactly did Christ love the Church?).  Perhaps that being "head of" does mean being the leader. I won't argue against that, but I will argue against teaching what isn't there.  

The passages are often taken out of context. What is the context?  Ephesians 5 begins with 

"1 Follow God’s example, therefore, as dearly loved children 2 and walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God."  

If Christian husbands and wives are walking in the way of love they won't be trying to get their way. They will be looking out for each other, not just themselves (Paul taught the Philippians to do that, too), they will be too busy laying down their lives (submitting or loving sacrificially) to have time to argue over having the last word. I think that's the spirit of the text. I don't think it was meant to enforce a hierarchy.

 

[polecat]

9 hours ago, Hisey said:

Lori did another "youtube"! This time it's about Black Salve and her other home remedies that don't have any "chemicals." And you can comment on this youtube (unlike her others).

The thing that struck me the most occurs at the end. Lori, apparently, has a very-special Norwex (?) washcloth that she loves. She removes her makeup by wetting it, wiping her face, rinsing and repeating. Then she takes the used cloth and drapes it over her tub. She does this every night and HAS NOT WASHED IT FOR FOUR MONTHS. Maybe it is so magical that it self-cleans. In any event, these Norwex cloths are so amazing that she cleans only with water now, except the toilets.

Why do these two things sound kinda dirty and gross to me? Never washing your facecloth? Cleaning only with water? (thank goodness water is not a chemical!)

I was also concerned that she inserts coconut oil into her eye. She says that after her cyberknife proceedure she has dry eyes so she puts a few drops of (organic) castor oil in her eyes each day. Glad it works for her, but I'd be concerned about putting oil in my eye.

 

4

Her "all-natural" cures for MRSA and skin cancer are going to get someone killed one of these days. Lori, the whole damn world is made of chemicals. EVEN WATER. 

Her nasty facecloth sure explains an awful lot, though. 

 

[Jellybean]

I stumbled across a fabulous quip by Ashleigh Brilliant, which just screams "Lori!" to me:

Quote

My opinion may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

 

[Chocolatedefrauded]

Easy test for submission: can you do what you want, not what you husband wants? If you disagree, do you always do what he wants? Do you feel like he has to approve of something or you can't do it? 

My parents have been married close to 60 years and my mom was a SAHM. Yet my dad wanted her to have a bank account, credit card & some stocks in her name only. He knew widows who could not access joint accounts or their husband's account after a death. Some patriarchs have all the money in their names, meaning widows had trouble buying food and paying the rent/mortgage until the estate is settled. That is not taking care of your wife!

[Free Jana Duggar]

3 hours ago, Koala said:

that creep who was threatening Lori's readers the other day weighed in.  He even posted a picture of a woman's ass

 

He is a filthy little creature, and I find it very concerning that he is always mentioning the daughters of Lori's readers.  

It looks like Lori finally took the hint on the Josh creep. I saw several comments from him earlier, including a pic of a woman's butt in yoga pants. It looks like Lori had sense enough to delete them. I don't see them now.

[Koala]

She's deleted the post about dancers and yoga pants, and her replies about seeing a woman wearing yoga pants with a long shirt that covered everything.

I am guessing either:

1) She read here and realized she'd been caught in another lie ("I've NEVER seen a woman wear yoga pants with a long shirt!" vs. "I saw a woman at the beach wearing yoga pants and a long shirt).

2) She doesn't want her readers to think too much about ballerinas who wear yoga pants, lest they realize that 

a ) Lori is a GIANT hypocrite

b ) the never ending stream of posts about yoga pants are digs at her own kid

2 minutes ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

It looks like Lori finally took the hint on the Josh creep. I saw several comments from him earlier, including a pic of a woman's butt in yoga pants. It looks like Lori had sense enough to delete them. I don't see them now.

Yep, now that you mention it, they are.

Now you have me wondering if maybe Ken cleaned house instead of Lori.  He's usually quicker to hide things that would make them look bad.  Lori usually doesn't have the sense to realize how bad she sounds.

OR, Ken (official FJ member) read here and took notes of the changes he wanted Lori to make.

[feministxtian]

14 hours ago, Imrlgoddess said:

My nature is what I call tomboyish, others have coined it as a masculine streak. I can be logical, structured, "by God, make a decision & stick to it". Indecisiveness in a male puts me off as does overt emotion.

Are we related? I am the logical, analytical one in our relationship. However, our relationship is changing. For many years, i was dealing with an addict who was also physically ill. Now he is neither and it's causing a bit of turmoil in our relationship. I have to learn to be a wife instead of a caretaker now and he has to learn to be a husband instead of a sick person. The last few years have been an adventure and probably more conflict at times than in the past. Trying to figure out our roles is interesting. We're still not traditional...but it's still difficult trying to navigate things.