Lori Alexander, 12: Transformed, But We Can't Tell

[Chocolatedefrauded]

Wow, obviously sinful people in church? How do they know who is sinful? I thought only God can judge us. And isn't church the best place for sinners? Aren't we all sinners? Cast the first stone & all.

[THERetroGamerNY]

15 minutes ago, Chocolatedefrauded said:

Wow, obviously sinful people in church? How do they know who is sinful? I thought only God can judge us. And isn't church the best place for sinners? Aren't we all sinners? Cast the first stone & all.

In fundie churches all you have to do is look down your nose at any given person and - poof! - they are sinful in your eyes.

Such people are begrudgingly accepted in the church, but they irritatingly put a crimp on the Perfect Holiness that you glowingly emit as you float by the pews, grass and flowers magically blooming under your feet.

[Koala]

Dave has been floating the idea of husbands physically disciplining their wives for some time now *see his comments Lori's John Wayne/wife spanking post*

Quote

It is interesting to note that all forms of authority relationships have some physical restraint as a necessary functional part of their role…. EXCEPT marriage. Yet marriage is foundational to all other authority relationships as marriage authority is the model for children, church, government, etc. No wonder all these relationships are tattered rags any more. 
Physical restraint is acceptable to all in some form for children whether just ’go to your room’ or spanking or time out or ‘I will not pay for your cell phone any longer.’ Government [including military] physical discipline is in many forms like taking away privileges [voting or driver’s license] but ultimately handcuffs or jail or death. And the church has physical discipline like withholding communion or excommunication. Even employer relationships will require leave of absences or demotions or termination. 
All of these physical actions come after some level of verbal warning, no matter how poor a communicator an authority may be. 
And even God uses physical options: physical pain from His emotional silence, pain and suffering directly from our actions, or letting all hell breaks loose. 
So what ever happened to the physical disciplines in marriage? Yes, that thought sounds very foreign to us [and someone might report me to the ‘authorities’ for verbally threatening my wife by just posing the question]. I won’t mention the possibilities that come to mind other than to say they may well include some that are used by the other authorities above. But to answer the question, what happened was that to discard our obedience to God [so we can be our own God] we needed to discard the foundational authority relationship here on earth that remind us of Him, and words have no teeth sometimes, as your wonderful post points out, so discard physical restraint and women can effectively be in control. 

http://lorialexander.blogspot.com/2015/07/when-words-wont-resolve-arguments.html

Then last week he made the following comments on her blog:

Quote

Men are left with a small handful of alternatives [or combo or sequence thereof] to responding to an unsubmissive wife …and I submit that a) this is AFTER each husband has challenged his wife in some reasonable fashion, and one or more of these are in EVERY marriage whether we recognize it or not:

1) clam-up, 2) check out [figurative or literal], 3) adultery, 4) divorce, 5) physically die [yes, I saw my mother kill my father and get away with it; see Proverbs ‘rottenness to the bones’] 6) abuse 7) stand ground. And I suggest that the last one is essentially not heard of nor seen. And regarding 6 + 7: …funny how the world and church will talk about men abusing women [the symptom] but never women abusing men [the illness].

He continues:

Quote

There is no ‘partner’ in scripture regarding marriage; not in word or in concept. The Church does not ‘partner’ with Christ; rather the church is subject to Christ. Likewise, the wife does not partner with her husband; rather she is subject to her husband. We should not entice anyone to think ‘partnering’ is a nice compromise to live in indefinitely; we are either for Him or against Him. A wife is either for her husband or against him

A reader dared to question God Dave on his assertion that lack of submission causes abuse.  

He replied:

Quote

Hi KK, I was merely pointing out the options men take when their wives rebel against them. They are real and actual options. 

Quote

However, yes, I am stating that women instigate domestic violence …against themselves. You read that right. I would never [nor have ever] promote abuse. I am just saying that conventional wisdom is looking in the wrong place; wasting time treating the symptoms as the illness goes on.

He clearly makes Ken nervous, but Lori eats his posts up with a spoon.  

Lori:

Quote

He is not looking for a way for husbands to physically abuse their wives in any way

Umm yeah, actually he kind of is *again, see the comments on the John Wayne post*.  And not only is he suggesting it, he's saying it's their fault.

[EmiGirl]

1 hour ago, Koala said:

He clearly makes Ken nervous, but Lori eats his posts up with a spoon

Becausee lori WANTS to be spanked! I don't think Ken is into the kink though.

[Koala]

Lori on how to be a virtuous woman:

Quote

 She is available to meet her husband’s sexual needs and loves doing this for him.

She makes sex sound like a chore.

Do your husband's laundry, cook his dinner, "give" him sex (or as she so eloquently said on her old blog, "pump him dry". *gag*

[Imrlgoddess]

Curiosity:  I wonder if Dave is married....

 

[Koala]

On a side note, the deletion of the Vacation Sex post got me wondering just how big of a makeover Always Learning got.  I am of the firm belief that Ken used  FJ as a "what to scrub" guide.  It's no coincidence that we discussed (and linked) that post on Oct. 27th, and now, less that 2 months later, it's gone.  

When he was here, he made a laundry list of things he wanted Lori to scrub, and from all appearances the Submissive Mentor had a duck fit and said no.

Ken:

Quote

My wife is not submitting to me on some issues I would like to see changed or modified on her blog. Are you shocked?

I know I've said this before, but I am still trying to wrap my mind around the reaction Lori must have had when she sent Ken here to set us straight, and he returned with a list of changes he wanted made to her blog, courtesy of FJ. 

This switching blogs and scrubbing posts has Ken written all over it.  He wants people to like him (Lori called him a people pleaser during the whole Dalrock debacle, and I'm pretty sure she didn't mean it as a compliment). He also has a business to think about, and probably has to interact with evil Whores of Babylon working moms on a daily basis. 

I have also noticed there are a LOT of deletions since the book was released.  Notebook doodle on women voting? Gone. Post based on the Amazon review comments of some nutso MRA? Deleted within a day or so.  Other posts weren't scrubbed entirely, but were heavily edited.  

Interesting stuff. 

 

[mango_fandango]

Yeah, because victims of domestic abuse always bring it on themselves. *rolls eyes*

They don't know what they're getting into when they enter a relationship with an abuser. The abuser will lay on the charm and make themselves out to be the perfect partner. If by chance the woman does hear about previous partners, the abuser will shrug it off, or the future abusee will just think "well, he's not like that with me, maybe I can change him". Then the abuse starts. The abused becomes afraid, and the abuser will manipulate and lie saying stuff like "if you tell anyone I'll kill your family/dog/whatever". The victim gets used to it, or may think the abuser is only like that after alcohol, or whatever. Eventually the abusee may get themselves out, or they may die.

Sigh. Go fuck yourselves, LorKen.

[Koala]

Earl- another of Lori's creepy assed MRA followers.  He uses Lori's FB/blog as a sounding board when he wants to bitch about his wife.

Earl (today on FB):

Quote

 She's everything in that post except for one sentence.

Lori (who practically salivates at the promise of gossip) replies:

Quote

Your wife, Earl? What sentence is she not?

Like · Reply · 57 mins

Earl:

Quote

Last sentence in second paragraph.

And which sentence would that be, you ask?  Why naturally, it's this one:

Quote

She is available to meet her husband’s sexual needs and loves doing this for him.

Lori used to advise another of her male readers on sex issues he was having with his wife. Funny how such a modest, chaste, discreet woman finds herself talking to men about their sex lives so often.  Oh well, at least she doesn't burp...that would be really indiscreet. 

[molecule]

A woman who prides herself on teaching women and who complains about women who teach men should go out of her way to not be perceived as ministering to a man--especially one who is sexually lonely. That is about as inappropriate as wearing a top cut down to her navel . . .

Seriously, her response should be, "I'm sorry you are frustrated with your sex life, Earl. I will pray for you." Oh, except that Lori forgets to pray. 

Or Ken should be the one responding to men who posts about their marriage frustrations.

Or Lori could simply not approve those comments.

She is a hypocrite. If she says that all she does is teach women, then that's all she should do--not try to get more information about how some other woman is failing in her duty sex or tell a dad on a park bench that he should spank his kids.

[Koala]

One of Lori's many exchanges with "Charles".  This one is from her post: Men being sexually refused by their wives.

http://lorialexander.blogspot.com/2016/04/men-being-refused-sexually-by-their.html

Charles:

Quote

Charles· 35 weeks ago

Thank you for posting on this subject, Lori. It has been a difficult thing to deal with. My wife's last response on this discussion was "I guess it is like the other things I don't do that bible commands me to do". I knew from the way she said it she wasn't happy to admit that, but I didn't know what to say after that.

Lori (who doesn't teach men):

Quote

"It must be because you enjoy being in rebellion to God's clearly stated Word and don't mind the consequences of disobeying him." Pray for her. Model Christ to her but show her consistently where she has an unbiblical mindset. Read the Word daily with her and pray with her if she will do this with you. There is nothing more powerful than the Word of God to convict and challenge us.

You can see how encouraging Charles to say that to his wife would definitely help his marriage  Nothing like sarcasm to make a couple closer. And she definitely doesn't teach men, so don't even think of "slandering" her by saying that.

2 hours ago, Imrlgoddess said:

Curiosity:  I wonder if Dave is married....

 

We have long assumed he was the Dave of the "privileged to be Dave's doormat" post, but I don't know now.  Ken said something in comments about Dave having a difficult marriage.  No big surprise there, since he regularly posts about spousal abuse, and compares the husband to God himself.    

[polecat]

1 hour ago, Koala said:

Earl- another of Lori's creepy assed MRA followers.  He uses Lori's FB/blog as a sounding board when he wants to bitch about his wife.

Earl (today on FB):

Lori (who practically salivates at the promise of gossip) replies:

Earl:

And which sentence would that be, you ask?  Why naturally, it's this one:

Lori used to advise another of her male readers on sex issues he was having with his wife. Funny how such a modest, chaste, discreet woman finds herself talking to men about their sex lives so often.  Oh well, at least she doesn't burp...that would be really indiscreet. 

 

I wonder if Earl is aware that comments on public posts are flashed across to every one of your Facebook friends? I am positive they all wanted to know about his private sex life, and I'm even more positive that his wife appreciates him publicly complaining about her lack of enthusiasm in the bedroom. Nice and discreet, Lori. Super nice and discreet.

But as you say, Koala, no burping or tooting, so it's all good!

[Koala]

Oh ffs, Lori has a new MRA follower.

Reader:

Quote

 I think women not being able to vote is too extreme. Just because the husband has the final say in the home does not mean the wife has no voice. A Godly man will seek council from his wife before making a final decision. Otherwise, he is a dictator.

Also, if women could not vote, single women and widows would have no voice.

MRA (Jedf ):

Quote

They do not need a voice. Before the gubmunt stepped in, widows were taken care of and the needy too.

Single women? The ones who were unhappy and kicked their husbands to the curb, took his house, kids, and part of his pay check?

If women are so strong and independent why do they need to take his money and house? Can’t they support themselves?

Who gets to decide what is harsh? Ah, the wife.

Is sexual refusal abuse and harsh?

Women will vote for what benefits themselves, not society as a whole. Why do you think most women voters are Democrats? Handouts. How does that benefit society?

No, you simple minded little fool, the widows and poor haven't always been taken care of. Further, being "taken care of" does not negate one's need for a voice.

There are many single women who have never been married at all.  There are many who were left by their husbands.  There are many who work and don't need to take "his" money and "his" house.  There are many who helped pay for the house.

Finally,  NO, sexual refusal is not abuse.  You don't have a right to another person's body.          

Get a fucking grip.

In other news....

Lori:

Quote

I sure wouldn’t have been out fighting for women’s right to vote and I don’t take it as a “sacred” thing that many do today. 

She continues:

Quote

But I do vote 

Makes.me.sick.  If voting isn't important, and Lori's little woman brain is too easily deceived, then by all means stay home and stop posting about politics.  Holy cow, the woman made a kazillion political posts during the last election.

[quiversR4hunting]

5 hours ago, Koala said:

On a side note, the deletion of the Vacation Sex post got me wondering just how big of a makeover Always Learning got.  I am of the firm belief that Ken used  FJ as a "what to scrub" guide.  It's no coincidence that we discussed (and linked) that post on Oct. 27th, and now, less that 2 months later, it's gone.

The chapter about sex in the book was almost all about vacation sex. So they may have scrubbed it from the blog but it is in the book, out in print (or e-version), so it will never be completely gone.

[Granwych]

4 hours ago, polecat said:

I wonder if Earl is aware that comments on public posts are flashed across to every one of your Facebook friends? I am positive they all wanted to know about his private sex life, and I'm even more positive that his wife appreciates him publicly complaining about her lack of enthusiasm in the bedroom. Nice and discreet, Lori. Super nice and discreet.

Brings to mind the subject of the Dixie Chicks' song "Goodbye, Earl."

[polecat]

4 hours ago, polecat said:

I wonder if Earl is aware that comments on public posts are flashed across to every one of your Facebook friends? I am positive they all wanted to know about his private sex life, and I'm even more positive that his wife appreciates him publicly complaining about her lack of enthusiasm in the bedroom.

 

The more I think about it, the more I wonder how Lori would respond if Earl's wife were the one putting him on blast like this. I can all but guarantee she'd be outraged and immediately run to her little gossip rag blog to make sure everyone knew how much of a sinner Mrs. Earl was for complaining about her husband especially publicly. But Earl is allowed to tell a perfect stranger AND all 100+ of his closest friends and family members on Facebook (plus all of Lori's followers and anyone in the world at large who stumbles across Lori's page) that his wife of 35 or so years that she doesn't have sex with him like shes's "supposed" to. 

This guy is a champion jerk, and Lori is just as bad for not recognizing that fact and putting him in check. How DARE he treat his faithful, loving wife of so many years so disrespectfully? 

[ViolaSebastian]

6 hours ago, Koala said:

Earl- another of Lori's creepy assed MRA followers.  He uses Lori's FB/blog as a sounding board when he wants to bitch about his wife.

Earl (today on FB):

Lori (who practically salivates at the promise of gossip) replies:

Earl:

And which sentence would that be, you ask?  Why naturally, it's this one:

Lori used to advise another of her male readers on sex issues he was having with his wife. Funny how such a modest, chaste, discreet woman finds herself talking to men about their sex lives so often.  Oh well, at least she doesn't burp...that would be really indiscreet. 

I came on this thread to post about that exchange. I went and read the post, and according to Earl, this is what his wife IS doing:

1. Carefully budgets her income

2. Makes her own food from scratch

3. Gardens

4. Can produce

5. Does "whatever she can" to make ends meet. Garage sales? Etsy? Side businesses? 

6. Mends and makes clothing

7. Carefully monitors her own and her children's eating habits

8. Dresses modestly

9. Is faithful

10. Doesn't flirt with other men

11. Does the laundry

12. Works hard on her home

13. Takes care of company at her house

14. Takes care of the children

15. Follows through on requests

16. Makes lunches

17. Does the grocery shopping

18. Makes dinner

Mrs. Earl sounds like a damn fine woman with a lot of talent. But, of course, it comes down to the sex she is supposedly obligated to give.  You know, Earl, I wonder if it ever occurred to you that your wife is freaking tired at the end of the day? Because in Lori world, there's no vacation or "me time" (Damn, I hate that term) for mama bear. I bet he's never considered that she's stressed and that's affecting her libido. In typical fashion, it's just the woman's fault. 

[desertvixen]

Yes, scrubbing the vacation sex post makes no sense, because it's pretty much the chapter in the book about sex.

[molecule]

In my marriage ministry, I work with a lot of folks in pretty sexless marriages. In most Christian marriage circles, sexual refusal is viewed as a pattern of pretty much never having sex--not refusing to have sex on a particular night. A years-long lack of sexual intimacy takes its toll on a marriage; it is deeply and emotionally painful. It is a sign that there is a lot that needs to be worked on in a marriage--usually from both sides, too, not just by the wife or the husband. 

So . . . although I agree that Earl should not be posting in a way that his wife and friends can see and that Lori should not be digging for more or trying to minister to him in any way, sex is an area that I see a bit differently from some folks here. 

I don't entirely disagree with some of Lori's comments about sex--but I can't stand that she sees sex only as something a wife does for her husband. I've seen people make gentle comments on her blog about how sex is for the wife, too. The most Lori can manage in a reply is to say that a wife should have sex because God commands her to. Those kinds of comments make me sad for her. With only ten minutes and lube, I can' t imagine that she has enough time to enjoy sex. I think she really doesn't get it.

[Koala]

Lori just posted a video with her mom.  Honestly, it was shocking to see Lori laugh and be so...cheerful.  She was chattering on about going to lunch and getting pedicures (no mention of eating in and being a keeper at home).  They even talked a bit about a popular country song.

Where is that person when she's writing such hateful posts?  People would like that person. They could relate to her.  She could maybe even help people.  The difference was truly shocking.  How does she switch back and forth between happily giggling with her mom, and calling a woman she's never met a prostitute for being loud?

I had a bit of trouble understanding what her mom was saying, but she referred to Lori as her "straight arrow" and I *think* she said something about Lori being treated badly and how mean people can be.  I hope that Lori's not whining to her about "trolls", because honestly, her mom doesn't need to be worrying while she's dealing with such serious medical issues.  If Lori is making her do that, it's beyond selfish.

I can honestly say, I can see how her mom would be baffled as to why people don't like Lori if that is the version of her she's used to (and especially if she hasn't read Lori's writings).  

Anyway, I hope the video is one that Lori can cherish in the future.  It's really hard when you can't hear a parents voice anymore, and you find yourself trying to replay it in your head so you don't forget.  I also wish her mom the very best.  She seems like a nice person, and no one should have to face what she's facing.

[December]

8 hours ago, Koala said:

No, you simple minded little fool, the widows and poor haven't always been taken care of. Further, being "taken care of" does not negate one's need for a voice.

Seriously. It's a nice revisionist fantasy that back in the "good old days" everyone was cared for. I guess not all high school history classes covered the late 19th and early 20th century social reformers who noticed and documented various hardships and injustices faced by the poor... It's like some people can't reconcile the fact that while many religious institutions have done amazing things for the less fortunate, the reality is that many people still suffered and continue to suffer today. One being true doesn't negate the other!

Also, the idea that someone doesn't need a legal voice if they are cared for is ridiculous. Does that mean if I financially supported my father or brother they wouldn't merit the right to vote?

[Granwych]

5 hours ago, molecule said:

With only ten minutes and lube, I can' t imagine that she has enough time to enjoy sex. I think she really doesn't get it.

I really think the only thing that Lori "gets" is how to scold and finger-wag.  At least, that's all she gets off on.  (Sorry, Ken!)

[onemama]

Two of her readers have posted complaining about the men who comment on her blog. Lori still thinks it's all good.

This is from the "Men are learning that marriage isn't good for them"
 

Quote

 

December 14, 2016 at 4:52 am

Lori—You often say that you write this blog for women. Lately, however, the comments seem to be overtaken by frustrated, unhappy men. If they are looking for help, I believe they should seek it elsewhere since what you teach is for women and does not address the man’s role. If they want a forum to share their views, they should get blogs of their own. And if they simply want to complain how women are the cause of all marital problems and skirt the topic of domestic discipline—I’m sure there are places on the internet to accommodate them.
Personally, this is not what I expect to find on a blog written for women by a woman and it makes me uncomfortable (NOT in a convicted by the Spirit way, in a “this is creepy, and I don’t like interacting with strange men online way”). It is your blog and you can take it in any direction you choose, but rather than just fade away I wanted to speak the truth to you in love and hope you will receive it as such, and consider if this is the audience you want. God bless you in your ministry, Lori, and many years of health and happiness to you and yours.

 

To which Lori replied:
 

Quote

 

December 14, 2016 at 5:42 am

There are only two women that I can recall that don’t like this, Vikki. I will allow men’s comments on my blog unless Ken tells me not to since I don’t see a problem with it. Ken writes posts for me and interacts in the comment section and I like it!

Blessings.

 

And on the "Mothers running for office" post:

Quote

 

December 14, 2016 at 2:58 pm

Lori, I implore you not to allow men with an axe to grind against women to have a platform on your blog. Most of Jedf’s comments are opinions and not Biblically sound.

 

KK (a regular) replies:
 

Quote

 

December 14, 2016 at 4:37 pm

I’m with you.
I used to love this blog, because it was so encouraging, but the bitter men commenting here have put me off completely. Reading their comments, it is easy to see why their marriages are unhappy.
Sadly, if these comments by these bitter men continue, I will be looking elsewhere for my encouragement.

 

Lori:
 

Quote

 

December 14, 2016 at 4:45 pm

You don’t have to read them, Sarah and KK. I don’t find them offensive at all for some reason but it takes a lot to offend me. They don’t.

Love “does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered” (1 Cor. 13:5)

 

Really? Lori?

KK again:
 

Quote

 

December 14, 2016 at 4:50 pm

Thanks Lori, I won’t be reading them.
Sadly, I’ll no longer be reading this blog. If giving bitter men a platform to complain about women is more important to you than actually encouraging women (which you’re so good at), I’ll look elsewhere for my encouragement. There is no shortage of Christian blogs for women on the internet, who don’t allow bitter men to comment.
Thanks for all the posts you’ve shared, I’ve really enjoyed reading them and have learned so much.

 

From another comment of hers:

Quote

these comments from bitter men have ruined the encouragement that I get from it. It’s clear why their marriages are failing, but coming on a blog for women, to complain about women, isn’t helping anybody. Not their marriages, and not women seeking encouragement.

Lori says:

Quote

Again, don’t read their comments if they bother you so much. They don’t comment that often but they have every right to comment. Women can learn from them too.

KK responds:

Quote

I don’t think women can learn very much from bitter men complaining about women. This is your blog and if you think it’s good for readership to allow these bitter comments, that’s your choice. I, however, will be seeking out other blogs, because this no longer feels like a safe place for me.
I showed my husband the comments on several of your posts and he doesn’t want me reading this blog any longer because of them because they are in no way edifying for me

I've left out the rest of the conversation.  It looks like Lori might start losing some of her female readers.

And no, Lori doesn't teach men.  Nope. She's an upright Titus 2 lady!

[kpmom]

36 minutes ago, onemama said:

I've left out the rest of the conversation.  It looks like Lori might start losing some of her female readers.

 

Hey, some good news regarding Lori's blog for once!

 

[Free Jana Duggar]

Lori probably allows the comments from bitter men since all she wants to do is bash women anyway.  Men can do no wrong in her eyes. 

She can't comprehend that gender has nothing to do with how one treats others. I've seen women treat their husbands badly and be irresponsible as well as men being jerk's and mistreating their wives. No single gender is responsible for all the problems in the world.

But, for Lori, women are always the problem. She commented recently about how a man should be able to punish his wife by cutting up her credit card if she overspent. Of course, a man could never be irresponsible with money and need his card cut up. *rolls eyes*