What do Christians who are not fundy/conservative look like?

[nolongerIFBx]

Since we are having some discussions on what fundie-lite is, doing fundie things without being fundie, etc. I wondered what does a Christian who is not fundie or even conservative "look" like?

I'm not trying to shit an any rugs. Promise. I'm just curious. If they don't believe in creation (scientifically impossible), flood (no proof), virgin birth (scientifically impossible), resurrection (scientifically impossible/no proof), etc.- basically anything that is reported to have happened in the Bible for which there is no scientific proof/explanation, what do they believe/do/think/act that classifies them as Christians as opposed to atheists, agnostics, seculars, etc.? :think:

[Rosa]

Well, in my experience they believe in God and Jesus Christ, they pray (in private, or in church - not up in your face or in front of other people), they celebrate Christian holidays like Easter and Christmas, and otherwise they look and act just about like everyone else because they think that faith is what defines a Christian, not how you dress or how much you evangelize.

Methodists, for example, were pretty radical back in the day, didn't go to movies or dance or drink or play cards or smoke, had big tent revivals, went out streetcorner preaching...and then over time they mellowed into just regular people of faith instead of fiery troublemakers. Which makes them much better neighbors and more able to help others, in my opinion.

Oh, and the mainline denominations set up big institutional charities like food shelves, homeless shelters, get-out-of-debt programs, job training, addiction counseling, using current social science & medical theories on how best to help people instead of insisting on a specifically "Christian" version of the real world that focuses on personal evangelism.

[Joykins]

Since we are having some discussions on what fundie-lite is, doing fundie things without being fundie, etc. I wondered what does a Christian who is not fundie or even conservative "look" like?

I'm not trying to shit an any rugs. Promise. I'm just curious. If they don't believe in creation (scientifically impossible), flood (no proof), virgin birth (scientifically impossible), resurrection (scientifically impossible/no proof), etc.- basically anything that is reported to have happened in the Bible for which there is no scientific proof/explanation, what do they believe/do/think/act that classifies them as Christians as opposed to atheists, agnostics, seculars, etc.? :think:

I think you will find many mainline or even liberal Christians believe in some of those things. They usually believe in God and try to follow the teachings of Jesus, etc. Mostly they're not all up in your face about their faith. I don't even think it's a belief in the miraculous/supernatural that makes a person a fundamentalist--that's only ONE earmark of many. There are some Christians that don't believe in the supernatural but they still believe in God, they just don't believe that science has the tools to perceive God.

[O Latin]

Since we are having some discussions on what fundie-lite is, doing fundie things without being fundie, etc. I wondered what does a Christian who is not fundie or even conservative "look" like?

I'm not trying to shit an any rugs. Promise. I'm just curious. If they don't believe in creation (scientifically impossible), flood (no proof), virgin birth (scientifically impossible), resurrection (scientifically impossible/no proof), etc.- basically anything that is reported to have happened in the Bible for which there is no scientific proof/explanation, what do they believe/do/think/act that classifies them as Christians as opposed to atheists, agnostics, seculars, etc.? :think:

I think a lot of them do believe in many of these things, they just don't wear it on their sleeve or try to force it down other people's throats. My church doesn't talk much about any of the above, except the resurrection on Easter. The message I've always gotten was that you can believe whatever you want about creation/flood/virgin birth/other impossible Bible stories, but whether those things are literally true or not isn't really what's important, it's the message behind them.

Also, I think mainline Christians generally are better able to live their lives without having to find a way to insert Jesus into everything they do (a la the types who do things like pray for all the traffic lights to turn green so they won't be late for work).

[maybeizfundie]

Mmm, I don't think believing those things makes one a "fundamentalist" in the sense used here. Although I guess there are those who are completely areligious who might classify anyone with spiritual beliefs as fundamentalist in some way?

Most Christians believe in some variation of creation, those who are more liberal might believe more in God-directed or God-instigated evolution, that the flood was regional, etc.

The most basic definition of Christian is "Christ-follower"--believing in him and following his teachings. Everything beyond that is theology and doctrine, and that does vary widely.

[dawbs]

Not to be to smart-alec back, but, they look like people.

It's easy to deal in stereotypes--we do it a lot here and I'll confess to doing it IRL too. But you're not talking about stereotypes or groups, you're talking about individuals.

I'll throw myself out as an example. When I got married, at age 25, I was a college educated (majored in biology--specifically evolutionary biology), formerly fundie-lite, virgin. Who happened to have longish-hair and glasses. I got (still get) prickly with people who assume based on my hair length and sexual status (which I was hardly preaching about/wearing on my sleeve--no, it wasn't mentioned at the wedding) my political leanings/intelligence/religious ideas/stance on evolution. The same way I got (still get) prickly about people who make assumptions about my stance on issues based on my female-ness or my status as a mom/wife/educator/biologist/etc.

I think that what classifies one as Christian is, what my dad would say, is the central question of the new testament, "what think ye of Christ?"

[Rosa]

Most Christians don't believe in a literal Creation in 7 days, but almost every Christian I know believes God created the universe AND the scientific method is the best way to describe how the world works and figure out just how it got here.

These beliefs aren't either-or. One of the prime characteristics of fundamentalism is the black and white thinking - since the spectrum of Christians is mostly not fundamentalists, most people believe in Creation and evolution, no problem. They use modern medicine AND believe that prayer helps.

[Witsec1]

-They don't confuse the bible with a science textbook

-They have women ministers. They marry gays. They have gay women ministers in same sex marriages!

- They are more concerned that everyone gets fed rather than controlling what happens in other people's bedrooms.

The above may not be the dividing line between fundy/non-fundy, but they are a sure sign that you are on the other side of the line.

[bananacat]

Well, in the United States, about 70-75% of people identify as Christian, but only about a third of them are Evangelical/fundamentalist. So about half of the people in the U.S. are non-fundie Christians. They look just like everyone else because they are everyone else. People who are Christian but not fundie make up a slight majority of people in this country, although of course they are not distributed evenly.

[ADoyle90815]

Non-fundie Christians look like anyone else, as they don't annoy others by preaching since they consider one's religion to be a private issue. They often go to church, but have no problems with skipping it while on vacation, and they help out in the community regardless of the beliefs of those being helped. They also don't publicize their community service projects outside of church, and they don't advertize their church at a service project by wearing anything that identifies their particular church.

[helloemi]

Wow...I was just having a similar conversation this morning actually...Here is a bit about me..A slightly non-traditional liberal Christian.

I am a huge science geek, teach computer classes at the *EVIL* public library, will be starting my master degree in January, work full-time, have a dog I treat as my child because yes, I am on birth control. My husband and I split the housework, he cooks much better breakfast food than I can. I drive a Toyota Camry (not a Ford Econoline 15 passanger van!). I could never leave the house without make up, and my light blonde hair is far from it's natural color. I usually wear skirts for comfort reasons, but am guilty of the occasional low cut shirt.

My husband and I drink, maybe have 4-5 drinks a week. We met at church, but left our group because of how close minded everyone was in their view of God. We did wait about 6 months before having sex, about a month before we were engaged. We lived together for about 3 months before our wedding.

We did have a friend who is a pastor marry us, but it was on the beach not in a church and I refused to have anything from Ephesians read in the ceremony.

Our faith comes across in everything we do. We have a wrought iron cross we purchased on our honeymoon hanging by our front door, but that's more of a memory of our trip than to strike a fear of damnation into visitors.

We pray together daily and attend a local non-denominational church that is more focused on community outreach than trying to preach about what is right or wrong. Our pastor was pretty famous a few years back for writing "The 30 Day Sex Challenge", he has been torn apart on numerous fundy blogs and I couldn't be prouder. This past week he actually poked fun at some fundys saying "Why would you bother even asking if the bible says women should wear dresses to church?!? The MEN wore dresses back then!"

I work in a low paying public service job because I get to help others on a daily basis, this too is an expression of my faith.

So yes, My name is Emi...And I'm a Christian. An evolution believing, gay rights supporting, pro-choice, Obama campaigning, would give my last dollar to a hungry friend Christian.

My faith is expressed through my daily actions and my belief that Christ died for my sins is not pushed on anyone. I try to be the best person I can be on a daily basis, and while I'm sure MANY people would say I am NOT a Christian, I don't need validation from fundies to be happy with who I am.

Sorry to go on so long! But you get the idea, It's really difficult sometimes having your faith questioned because it doesn't fit into a mold... Check out Believe Out Loud. It's a Christian organization that is working on bringing together Christians who are pro gay rights. I'm a big supporter.

[nolongerIFBx]

I wasn't trying to step on anyone's toes; it was just something I wondered about. If one doesn't embrace extremist (on FJ we call this fundie) or conservative beliefs, what is just a "regular" Christian?

Dawbs- maybe I should have put "characteristics of" instead of "looks like". My bad.

Hellomi- glad you were having a similar conversation so it is not just me and your response was very explanatory.

Anyhow, I appreciate the all responses and any more that follow. :dance:

[helloemi]

I wasn't trying to step on anyone's toes; it was just something I wondered about. If one doesn't embrace extremist (on FJ we call this fundie) or conservative beliefs, what is just a "regular" Christian?

Hope I didn't come across as offended! Husbands family are big ummm...Liberty University supporters/Baptists, so I often feel out of place or upset by their comments on Facebook. This morning before work there was a debate about whether Jews for Jesus is a good idea or they are culturally insensitive. This turned into "Do "real" Christians believe in evangelism. Ugh!

Just my eagerness for a chance to get to defend myself as a Christian :dance:

Thankfully none of them come on here or I wouldn't be getting a Christmas card :?

[dawbs]

I think the same problem applies to 'characteristics of'. Their characteristics are that they identify as 'regular' christian individuals and won't necessarily conform to group stereotypes.

And I fully expect people to get their feathers ruffled when they (or others) are being stereotyped.

Not in a "how dare you, I'm offended and you suck" sort of way, but in a "well, we're PEOPLE--why are you asking me to speak for a million other people who I wouldn't want to speak for me?" sort of way.

[sableduck]

There are a lot of us. We just don't feel the need to tell everybody else how they are supposed to live their life.

[MaroonMandy]

I've been reading Free Jinger for awhile, but this thread actually made me create an account and post.

I was raised and still consider myself to be a Christian (a Baptist at that!) but I find what most of the people in the fundie blogs to do be disturbing.

Yes, I pray, but not for things like toys for my kids (if I had any) or a way to get something that I want. Instead, I ask for understanding or strength. I don't feel the need to push my beliefs on anyone or put others down when they don't agree with me. In fact, I find that to be very Un-Chrisitian like. Instead I was raised to respect people and their beliefs and when I met someone different than me I should use that as a learning experience.

I also value education. I have three sisters and my parents made sure we were educated as much as our male relatives, if not more. My dad once told me, "Honey, love is great but it doesn't always last forever. If you get an education you'll always be able to take care of yourself." So that is something that separates me from the "fundie" types.

If I were to get married, I might stay at home while the kids were little, but I wouldn't dare homeschool them. That entire concept creeps me out and I have no delusions that I could teach math on a high school level (even with two bachelors and a masters, I realize I have limits).

I wear pants and make-up (when I'm not too lazy to put it on) and I have tattoos. I try not to judge others for the way they look.

I don' know if that explains what "non-fundie" Christians are like, but maybe it does.....?

[Rosa]

MaroonMandy, I think it does.

One of the most damaging things the fundies do is try to make the word Christian mean only them, when they are a minority. Even among Evangelicals most folks aren't really fundamentalists.

[Guest Anonymous]

My sister is a christian. She belongs to a pretty conservative church which is full of Sahm/homemakers with lots of kids. She hosts a bible study in her home every week. She had a Yes on Prop 8 sign in her front home a few yrs ago (voting against gay marriage) that was stolen 3 times (lol!).

But here's the thing..she works outside the home, has my niece in a public elementary school, my nephew in a christian pre-k school, she only has 2 kids and got her tubes tied after her second (gasp!). Been many times in her car listening to everything from Britney Spears and Lady Gaga to christian pop/rock. She's not a frumpy mom by any means and yes I have seen her wear things with a little cleavage showing so she isn't super modest. Oh, and I have had many glasses of wine with her over the years :) I wouldn't know what christian category to put her in.

[Joykins]

My sister is a christian. She belongs to a pretty conservative church which is full of Sahm/homemakers with lots of kids. She hosts a bible study in her home every week. She had a Yes on Prop 8 sign in her front home a few yrs ago (voting against gay marriage) that was stolen 3 times (lol!).

But here's the thing..she works outside the home, has my niece in a public elementary school, my nephew in a christian pre-k school, she only has 2 kids and got her tubes tied after her second (gasp!). Been many times in her car listening to everything from Britney Spears and Lady Gaga to christian pop/rock. She's not a frumpy mom by any means and yes I have seen her wear things with a little cleavage showing so she isn't super modest. Oh, and I have had many glasses of wine with her over the years :) I wouldn't know what christian category to put her in.

I know a LOT of people like this. Probably evangelical but a lot of mainline Protestants on the conservative side and Catholics are like this too (probably not the tubal if they're a conservative Catholic though).

[mnb357]

I look hot, that's what I look like!

[mnb357]

Now that I have that silly comment out of my system, here's my serious answer:

We look like we're trying to love our neighbors as ourselves, which is second only in loving God with all our souls and all our minds and our all hearts in importance in the particular brand of non-fundie Christianity I subscribe to. How does THIS look? Well, it varies. For me, it means being understanding of differences in my fellow man, being gracious to others, and helping where I think I can, and teaching our kids to do the same. This can be as simple as offering to take a neighbor's kids to school when she is pressed for time, or volunteering as a homework helper in school. Basically, I try to be Christ-like. I do not always succeed, as I'm human, but that's o.k., because there is always renewal. Does that help?

[FloraDoraDolly]

Now that I have that silly comment out of my system, here's my serious answer:

We look like we're trying to love our neighbors as ourselves, which is second only in loving God with all our souls and all our minds and our all hearts in importance in the particular brand of non-fundie Christianity I subscribe to. How does THIS look? Well, it varies. For me, it means being understanding of differences in my fellow man, being gracious to others, and helping where I think I can, and teaching our kids to do the same. This can be as simple as offering to take a neighbor's kids to school when she is pressed for time, or volunteering as a homework helper in school. Basically, I try to be Christ-like. I do not always succeed, as I'm human, but that's o.k., because there is always renewal. Does that help?

Sounds good to me.

[jenny_islander]

You don't have to be a fundamentalist Christian to believe in miracles. That said, mainstream Christians sometimes look like me. I dress in whatever is clean on Sunday morning; sometimes that's sweats, sometimes a dress with heels. I wear my hair long because my husband likes it long and it isn't a hardship for me to do so, but I don't style it because I don't like foofy stuff; I just braid it or pull it back. I don't wear makeup because I don't like makeup. My house is piled with things that would make a fundamentalist run away in terror, including several editions of D&D book, a metric buttload of fantasy and science fiction books in paper and e-form, and six different Bibles besides the KJV. We are watching the Eleventh Doctor right now and my daughter is bugging me for dinner, which she will eat at her own small table because we don't do the family dinner thing.

Gotta go, kids hungry--DH already fed the toddler.

[Rachel333]

Like everyone has already said, they look like everyone else but with Christian beliefs.

I think you can be liberal and still believe that events happened that defy science. That's sort of the point of those beliefs; if they weren't unscientific they wouldn't be remarkable. Religious people aren't the only ones with these kinds of beliefs, either; most people are superstitious to some degree even if they don't realize it. I know there are a lot of liberal non-Christians here that believe in supernatural stuff like ghosts and such, and while I think those beliefs are completely false, I don't think that believing in them makes those people fundies

[maybeizfundie]

What Rachel said. The point of the miraculous is that it *isn't* scientifically possible. :D And beliefs in things not scientifically explicable are certainly not limited to fundamentalist Christians, not by a long shot.

Anywhoo, there are also plenty of people who just defy categorization, one way or the other. My parents are very conservative Catholics. They're very solid on the teachings about sex and abortion, not to mention Catholic theology. Mom chairs the board for a crisis pregnancy center. And yet, they did not mistreat, shame, or disown my sister who is a single mother, and instead are sacrificing a great deal in order to help her get on her feet, and help her raise the baby. They taught us what they believed was right and there were some things they would not allow in the house (say, smoking pot or having a boyfriend sleep over), but didn't seek to "make it happen" by controlling our every move or limiting our friendships. They have absolutely no doubts about their faith, but have no problem having friendships with people outside their faith, and people of all religious backgrounds and ethnicities passed through our home as guests when I was a kid. They believe very strongly in modern medicine, being doctors, but are much loved by the local homeschooling contingent because they are gracious and not arrogant with people they disagree with. My other sister is similarly conservative, but also a biology major. Her husband is an environmental scientist. They all believe that the world was created by God, but also believe that there is validity in some of the theories of evolution. They are not bound to any particular political party, and tend to feel that all parties have some truth, and all parties skew things in order to suit their agenda, and they're not generally happy with anybody that is presented as a political leader, lol.

The same could be said about our current pastor, who is an evangelical. So, completely different theological viewpoint, but defies stereotyping.