Tori Bates Courtship- Part 2

[Carm_88]

Trace is actually going to get a job? And his parents will allow that? I'm hesitant to believe that....

I also highly doubt that! I also doubt that the Dixie Stampede would let him have a chaperone, or whatever they are calling It these days, at work.

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

1 hour ago, Carm_88 said:

I also highly doubt that! I also doubt that the Dixie Stampede would let him have a chaperone, or whatever they are calling It these days, at work.

I think they could spin the "men are providers" angle when, in reality, they hold blatant double-standards for the sons and the daughters regarding chaperones, pieces of their heart, etc. 

[Melissa1977]

Bates boys don't use chaperones. Zach has been working for years and dating Whit ALONE. Lawson travels. Nathan and Trace seem to be quiet but I'm sure they are allowed to get a job by their own, as far as it means money. I imagine Gil suggesting them to help family with a part of their earnings.

[Carm_88]

28 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

Bates boys don't use chaperones. Zach has been working for years and dating Whit ALONE. Lawson travels. Nathan and Trace seem to be quiet but I'm sure they are allowed to get a job by their own, as far as it means money. I imagine Gil suggesting them to help family with a part of their earnings.

I don't think that Lawson travels alone, he usually has a sibling with him. 

[IReallyAmHopewell]

4 hours ago, Shouldabeenacowboy said:

I think they could spin the "men are providers" angle when, in reality, they hold blatant double-standards for the sons and the daughters regarding chaperones, pieces of their heart, etc. 

They probably know the owners or the manager or someone. It's odd how both the Bates and the Duggars go to those shows so often--must be a Gothadite in there somewhere.

[HereticHick]

On 12/12/2016 at 5:25 PM, IReallyAmHopewell said:

They probably know the owners or the manager or someone. It's odd how both the Bates and the Duggars go to those shows so often--must be a Gothadite in there somewhere.

Dixie Stampede (which has 2 locations-- Branson, MO and Pigeon Forge, TN) is DOLLY PARTON's Dixie Stampede: http://www.dixiestampede.com/

Dolly, blessed be her name, is very much not a Gothardite.

[nokidsmom]

On 12/12/2016 at 7:59 AM, Melissa1977 said:

Bates boys don't seem confortable with college. I'm not snarking here, but I think they're real country boys who are not interested in studying but on working, outdoor living, etc. I'm sure Kelly would like to have some of them in college, she tried to convince Nathan to study for being a preacher o something like that, but it never happened.

It's a shame girls are not encouraged to attend accreditted colleges, because if someone in this family can have a real degree, it's one of the girls.

While I not a fan of this family, I personally find it a bit sad that Erin got her degree but at an unaccredited college.    Whatever the story was behind the scholarship at the U of Tennessee, I really feel she, in particular, was cheated out of getting a degree that will actually mean something.   Had she gotten an accredited degree, that would have set the stage for getting a graduate degree and possibly teaching positions.   Sure, she teaches at home which is fine, but personally I feel her potential was severely limited by going to Crown. 

[season of life]

It's kind of like a mean bait-and-switch. Yes, the kids are allowed to attend college, but then you find out it's something like Crown. A degree from a legit school would go so much farther for these kids.

[nokidsmom]

6 minutes ago, season of life said:

It's kind of like a mean bait-and-switch. Yes, the kids are allowed to attend college, but then you find out it's something like Crown. A degree from a legit school would go so much farther for these kids.

Agreed.  Sadly, the kids are too indoctrinated to recognize it.   Or they do but are too much at their parents' mercy and going somewhere might be better than nowhere. 

I said it before and I say it again, the Bateseseseses are not better than the Duggars.    They appear to be more progressive but they still have fucked up and used their kids for their own agenda.

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

6 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

Agreed.  Sadly, the kids are too indoctrinated to recognize it.   Or they do but are too much at their parents' mercy and going somewhere might be better than nowhere. 

I said it before and I say it again, the Bateseseseses are not better than the Duggars.    They appear to be more progressive but they still have fucked up and used their kids for their own agenda.

Especially since Gil and Kelly Bates attended regular schools and colleges, and are depriving their children of the same experiences. In some respect the Bateses are worse than the Duggars. Although, to be sure, deciding who is worse is like deciding whether horse cr*p is better or worse than bull cr*p!

[just_ordinary]

But at least their children have a chance of contact to other young people who are not handpicked and approved by their parents. I hope they will realise that their way of life might be only on of many in their still narrow ways. If they can get their head around this there might be room for more. That is why I wished that they would encourage their boys more (if they have the ability- colleg is by all means not for everyone one). In their world a more open minded headship might be faster in doing things differently. 

[Melissa1977]

12 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

But at least their children have a chance of contact to other young people who are not handpicked and approved by their parents. I hope they will realise that their way of life might be only on of many in their still narrow ways. If they can get their head around this there might be room for more. That is why I wished that they would encourage their boys more (if they have the ability- colleg is by all means not for everyone one). In their world a more open minded headship might be faster in doing things differently. 

That's the only reason I think Bates are slighty better than Duggars. Not because they did a better parenting (although I think probably Michelle was a worse teacher than Kelly), but because JB seems to have a narcisitic personality and very low self-steem and is scared of his children being better than him. So he prefers to give them jobs and allowances and not leaving them going to college or getting real jobs. I know being whealthy helps a lot.  But Kelly and Gil seem to be proud of their college children and of their artistic careers. Of course, it's not really nice because the only reason they're proud is because these kids are kept inside their narrow world. So it's not a disclaimer. But it makes Bates kids life less boring and they get more opportunities.

 

[RosyDaisy]

Nothing makes the Bates better than the Duggars.

[formergothardite]

22 hours ago, HereticHick said:

Dolly, blessed be her name, is very much not a Gothardite.

No she is not.  

IMO, Gil and Kelly are entirely too selfish to ever help their kids or give them money. Gil lets his kids work with his tree business, but most likely only because it is not like he is going to do the work and I wouldn't be surprised if he kept most of the money. He wouldn't give his kids houses because he expect his children to give him stuff. 

The Bates have lucked out in being artistic and naturally talented in areas approved by IBLP where they can also make money. The Duggars just don't naturally have those skills. What are you supposed to do when you aren't musically inclined, aren't good with arranging flowers, are tired of watching other people's children and have no desire to get into local politics? I suspect the midwife thing Jill did was sort of pushed on her and not something she truly desired. They all got a crap education and the idea of college, even CollegePlus, might seem overwhelming to them. Add in spending their teens years being made to think they would have reality tv money and it is no wonder the Duggars seem lost. 

[trustworthy]

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 1:23 PM, Shouldabeenacowboy said:

I think they could spin the "men are providers" angle when, in reality, they hold blatant double-standards for the sons and the daughters regarding chaperones, pieces of their heart, etc. 

Yes, the fact is that Lawson gets a ton more freedom than any of the girls -- I suspect he can drive by himself and go places all in the name of his career.

Wait, Carlin and Josie are thinking about possible careers?  What does that mean?

[Ali]

Why do people arguing the Bateses are better than the Duggars? I really don't understand this argument. It seems like asking someone do you want to stab and ice pick in your left eye or your right eye.

Sure we cold point to specific aspects about them that we know from a scripted non-reality tv show, but that is only what they want the public to know about them and they have better PR skills than the Duggars. Overall, they are both horrible families!

 

[eleanora3]

11 hours ago, formergothardite said:

No she is not.  

IMO, Gil and Kelly are entirely too selfish to ever help their kids or give them money. Gil lets his kids work with his tree business, but most likely only because it is not like he is going to do the work and I wouldn't be surprised if he kept most of the money. He wouldn't give his kids houses because he expect his children to give him stuff. 

The Bates have lucked out in being artistic and naturally talented in areas approved by IBLP where they can also make money. The Duggars just don't naturally have those skills. What are you supposed to do when you aren't musically inclined, aren't good with arranging flowers, are tired of watching other people's children and have no desire to get into local politics? I suspect the midwife thing Jill did was sort of pushed on her and not something she truly desired. They all got a crap education and the idea of college, even CollegePlus, might seem overwhelming to them. Add in spending their teens years being made to think they would have reality tv money and it is no wonder the Duggars seem lost. 

I disagree about Jill. I'm pretty sure she was really gung-ho about midwifery. It is strange, though, that Jana and Jinger didn't consider teaching piano or something like Erin does. 

[Carm_88]

1 hour ago, Ali said:

Why do people arguing the Bateses are better than the Duggars? I really don't understand this argument. It seems like asking someone do you want to stab and ice pick in your left eye or your right eye.

Sure we cold point to specific aspects about them that we know from a scripted non-reality tv show, but that is only what they want the public to know about them and they have better PR skills than the Duggars. Overall, they are both horrible families!

 

Same room, different shade of awful paint. Duggars and the Bates are very similar. Sure the Bates let their kids go to "college" but judging by the rules of Crown, they're all drinking the same koolaid. 

[CharlieInCharge]

The courtship appears to be alive and well. And Tori is apparently the family 'air-head'. Thanks mom :/ 

[Carm_88]

Wow, that's all I want for my birthday. To be known as the family airhead.  I know that can be meant in an affectionate, funny way but I would hope that wouldn't be all over social media. 

[actuallyjessica]

That's a cute pic!

Airhead? Haha! A bit tongue in cheek, I suppose.

Michelle should take some tips from Kelly to at least give the appearance of giving a shit about their kids on their birthday, so no one is put through the struggle street videos like Jordyn's.

[nastyhobbitses]

On 12/19/2016 at 9:27 AM, nokidsmom said:

Agreed.  Sadly, the kids are too indoctrinated to recognize it.   Or they do but are too much at their parents' mercy and going somewhere might be better than nowhere. 

I said it before and I say it again, the Bateseseseses are not better than the Duggars.    They appear to be more progressive but they still have fucked up and used their kids for their own agenda.

They're just the Duggars with shinier packaging.

On 12/20/2016 at 4:44 AM, Melissa1977 said:

That's the only reason I think Bates are slighty better than Duggars. Not because they did a better parenting (although I think probably Michelle was a worse teacher than Kelly), but because JB seems to have a narcisitic personality and very low self-steem and is scared of his children being better than him. So he prefers to give them jobs and allowances and not leaving them going to college or getting real jobs. I know being whealthy helps a lot.  But Kelly and Gil seem to be proud of their college children and of their artistic careers. Of course, it's not really nice because the only reason they're proud is because these kids are kept inside their narrow world. So it's not a disclaimer. But it makes Bates kids life less boring and they get more opportunities.

 

I will agree that it seems like Kelly and Gil seem to give more of a shit about their kids and recognize their personalities beyond "has a servant's heart and likes Jesus I guess", and seem to have cultivated their children's talents and allowed them to pursue their interests (within narrow parameters) more than Jim Bob and Michelle did with their children. But they're still Gothard followers, they still have abhorrent political beliefs, their children still have subpar educations (Crown is not college; it's fundie finishing school) that keep them locked into the cult, and they still pimped their children out to reality TV. Still not very good parents, but a step above Jim Bob and Michelle. Like I said, shinier packaging.

[nokidsmom]

2 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

(Crown is not college; it's fundie finishing school)

Very well put.  I posted on another Bateseseses thread that it was a bit sad that Erin went to Crown instead of an accredited college.  Her talents plus a degree from an accredited institution would probably do a lot more for her if she so desired, such as if she wanted to do graduate work or teaching in a school for example.   The "degree" she has is worthless, at least in the real world.    It might mean something in the fundie world but it's limited. 

Also agree that that Bateseseses have shinier packaging.  Kelly knows how to present her family in a better light.  She has the Duggars' mistakes to look to but she's also just smarter in how to make her family look more mainstream than they are.  

[formergothardite]

12 hours ago, eleanora3 said:

I disagree about Jill. I'm pretty sure she was really gung-ho about midwifery. It is strange, though, that Jana and Jinger didn't consider teaching piano or something like Erin does. 

Maybe she was.

The Duggars can play musical instruments, but they seem to lack the natural talent of the Bates. The Duggars play like I would play if my parents had continued forcing me to take lessons despite showing no desire or gift for music. Plus being able to play and being able to teach are two different things. My sister can play the piano, she can't teach it, though. 

[Adrienne83]

On 12/19/2016 at 9:10 AM, nokidsmom said:

While I not a fan of this family, I personally find it a bit sad that Erin got her degree but at an unaccredited college.    Whatever the story was behind the scholarship at the U of Tennessee, I really feel she, in particular, was cheated out of getting a degree that will actually mean something.   Had she gotten an accredited degree, that would have set the stage for getting a graduate degree and possibly teaching positions.   Sure, she teaches at home which is fine, but personally I feel her potential was severely limited by going to Crown. 

What story? I don't remember Erin getting a scholarship!