Jill Duggar Dillard Part 11

[Chickenbutt]

One more thing, then I need to get outta here. My gr kids are required to have a book report and memorize a poem every quarter. The 11 year old decided she was responsible enough to remember on her own. Both are due Feb. 2nd and she has done nothing. Her dad and I agreed to give her the opportunity to do it herself and it looks like it is going to be an epic fail. She is an A student and this will be her "come to Jesus" moment in her academic life. It is killing me not to step in and help her get it done.

[EmCatlyn]

3 minutes ago, Chickenbutt said:

One more thing, then I need to get outta here. My gr kids are required to have a book report and memorize a poem every quarter. The 11 year old decided she was responsible enough to remember on her own. Both are due Feb. 2nd and she has done nothing. Her dad and I agreed to give her the opportunity to do it herself and it looks like it is going to be an epic fail. She is an A student and this will be her "come to Jesus" moment in her academic life. It is killing me not to step in and help her get it done.

Hang in there.  Sometimes we learn more from our failures than our successes.  Better at 11 than at 21.

[SassyPants]

15 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

The teacher I subbed for yesterday (fifth grade) had "homework forms" on her desk. The content of the form was basically that parents are required to help with homework for a minimum of 1.5 hours per week and return the signed form vouching that they did. 

I taught high school for 16 years. By the last four years or so (I stopped teaching full time after the 2009-10 school year), I had a lot of students who could not handle working on anything on their own. We had a grade portal online where we were required to post all assignments. The last year, I had three kids who were seniors in honors classes that did not keep track of their own homework; their mothers would go online each day and check what their assignments were and text them around 3 p.m. telling them what to bring home with them. These were kids that were headed to college on academic scholarships in less than a year. I know for a fact that only one of the three graduated from college. And that one had a mom who effectively moved to the city where she went to college, so it is likely mom continued to helicopter her through. 

Parental involvement is important, but as you say, what was accomplished when educators learned that was not increasing the right kind of involvement but instead, in many cases, encouraging over-involvement. 

My oldest kid thought I was her private tutor. I had to cut her off...she was a good student but HS was hard for her. Now she was totally prepared for college and aced both BS and MA programs.

With my younger one we took a different approach. I let him run the show. He did well throughout.

Now my kids went to Catholic schools, where back in the day, there was no homework or grade portal. It was old school.

Conversely, my SIL with 3 boys in 3 years, has been monitoring those kids assignments and grades, daily, forever. Yikes

[missegeno]

42 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

I mean, yeah so I multiply by 9 weirdly.  So what?  It gets me the correct answer faster.  There is no reason why I shouldn't be allowed to use my method if it WORKS and it makes sense to me. 

Base 8 is super effective too! I wish it were taught as an option, but I've never had a teacher so much as mention the possibility.

[princessmahina]

On 1/27/2016 at 3:17 PM, Jucifer said:

Publix is ok but my favorite stores are Trader Joe's and a funny little market around the corner called Big Bear.

Our neighborhood Big Bear (love the name!) is a quirky little store.  They don't have a big selection but they have an interesting clientele and I always come home with a story when I shop there.

They have bags of kaolin clay for sale near the produce section.  It's labeled as a novelty item but I have a suspicion it might be for people with pica.

They have bottles of "Indian Yellow Root" which I think is some kind of cure-all.  They have jars of something called "Old Timer's Syrup".  I have no idea what that is for and I hope I never find out.

I love the south.  Even grocery shopping is an adventure.

I love this. There's a grocery store down the street (well, about 25 minutes away, but that's "down the street" for me) that plays animal noises. Like, barnyard sounds. If you're in the meat section, you'll hear oinking and clucking. If you're in the dairy, you'll hear cows mooing. I thought I was hallucinating the first time because they keep the sounds pretty low. It's weird, but kind of fun. 

[EmCatlyn]

40 minutes ago, Chickenbutt said:

My granddaughters get a homework sheet listing their homework for the day. A parent/grandparent is asked to sign the sheet after assuring that the homework is completed. We are not asked to check it, just to make sure it is done. The girls will occasionally ask for help on a particular question or math problem. If I can help them find the answer or the formula to work out the problem, then I do. I can't do the math (lol), but I can certainly find in the math book where it shows how to do it. Then the kid reviews that section and does the problem. I see nothing wrong with facilitating the learning, but doing it for them? Not a chance. I already did my homework when I was in school. I am certainly not doing theirs.

Back when our then 2nd grader had the teacher that expected us to grade the homework my then husband and I flatly refused to do so.  We made sure the kid did the homework.  We caught where he clearly didn't understand a concept and explained it.   But we didn't mark the errors or grade.  We told the teacher we were too busy grading our own (university) students.  

[Denim Jumper]

21 hours ago, sophie10130 said:

Also as a math person and an education person, CC will HELP your child learn math better. Math, especially higher math, isn't all algorithms and memorizing like we all learned in school. It is mostly intuition and problem solving. CC helps to teach math the way students see it in the real world and later in their math education. I see it a lot when kids reach calc. They want to use their memorization techniques, but there are so many different types of problems in calc that this method clearly fails. It's only the students who can learn to intuit on THEIR OWN or get outside help with tutors that succeed in calc.

I've seen so many complaints on Facebook about kids learning addition in a way that isn't put one number on top of the other and add down the columns, but by grouping in tens and parents saying "wtf is this shit?" only to have it explained to them and say "Ohhhh, that's how I add in my head!" 

EX: what's 8+5? We know 8+2 is 10. Once we take 2 away from 5, we get three. So 10+3=13.

Spelled out like this, it seems harder than say, counting on your fingers up to 13, but with bigger numbers it makes more sense, but they are starting with basic numbers in 1st grade so that when they reach numbers like 224+15 in later grades they can use the same methods.

220+15+4=220+19=239

Let me preface this by saying the I am a huge proponent of CC because my kids are doing really well it, and it does approach math intuitively... but I just don't get it! Maybe it's because the old way came so easily to me, but at this point when they need help with the basics my answer is "Go ask your father. I'm pretty much useless until you need help with calculus or linear algebra."

[OnceUponATime]

55 minutes ago, Chickenbutt said:

My granddaughters get a homework sheet listing their homework for the day. A parent/grandparent is asked to sign the sheet after assuring that the homework is completed.

I never had daily homework that I remember.

When I was in elementary we had homework but usually had  4 - 7 days (90% of the time over the weekend) to do it in. Our parents were expected to help us with some homework ie: drill spelling words, multiplication tables, listening to us read. Of course siblings could help, or if there was no one we were told to drill them ourselves (ie write them out multiple times. fun). A lot o the time we drilled each other on the school bus. 

There was also an expectation that if we were stuck we asked our parents for help or informed our teacher and got help at school. If our homework was not done when it was due we needed to have a parent's note attached with the reason why. Our teachers would ring our parents if this wasn't done (it was a rural town and the teachers understood that parents had little time to help out due to milking etc, but didn't want lazy students 'forgetting' to do homework when given). I used to find enough time during the school day to do nearly all my homework at school. From age 8 we were expected to start managing time at school ourselves. ie for maths we had a series of exercises for the week. the teacher had some teacher moments to teach us new skills. it was up to us to make sure we completed the given exercises during the week. We could do them in whichever order we wished.

At high school our homework was a mixture of research assignments/reading books/ writing essays/left over exercised from that day's school work. While some people got help from parents it was frowned upon iirc. We had some good teachers who took the effort to teach us how to break down projects to get them done. One teacher expected our parents to sign off on our reading log (which I found crazy. My parents didn't know all the books I read when I was 12, nor did they have the time to watch me read them all). We were expected to keep a log of all books read during the year. Even with a signature I still got in trouble for reading 'an impossible' amount of books.

Having moved schools a bit I found that different teachers/schools had quite different homework cultures and also quite different expectations about what and how a student should solve problems. One teacher did not let us help each other - we had to hope he might find enough time to answer our questions if we had them (class of 35 students, 45 minute long class...). In other classes we were encouraged to help each other if the teacher was busy.

[Valerie3kids]

16 hours ago, gustava said:

It might be more accurate to say that women who traveled were bitten by mosquitoes during their travels.

(Sorry I messed up the quote function. A mosquito made me do it.)

You are correct much better wording. I knew there was a better way but have fibro and sometimes words just will NOT come into my brain at will. Thank you. I hope no one thought I was blaming the woman as that is not what I was trying to do.

[manda b]

20 hours ago, paulypepper said:

OMG! Thanks for the heads up. I love it! living on the Indiana/Kentucky border I too have said or heard most of those phrases my entire life. (and continue to do so)

me too. (From the same area)

[EmmieJ]

On 1/25/2016 at 8:19 AM, quiverofdoubt said:

On 1/27/2016 at 10:30 AM, princessmahina said:

2 hours ago, missegeno said:

Thanks for your response @EmCatlyn! That is a really helpful explanation. It sounds like there has been a big shift since I was in grade school. It's worrisome that parents are often expected to help now. I have taken a number of classes about educational psychology, and one of the main take-aways that I got from those classes is that parental involvement is ideal, but not always possible. For example, Montessori schools have wonderful outcomes, but they only really work in cases where the parents are highly engaged. If parents aren't actively engaged, the touted benefits disappear.

 

In an ideal world, all parents would be actively engaged, but it's simply not possible for many parents. What a disadvantage for the children with single parent who work after school to keep heat in the house and food on the table. Even if those evening shifts are only occasional, that's going to interfere with homework on those nights. Involving parents is wonderful, but programs should be mindful of the limitations placed upon parents who have to make tough decisions in the interest of doing what's best for their child. Avoiding the evening shift so you can help with homework isn't going to be very helpful if it means the child goes hungry. Similarly, getting your kid used to having someone guide them through each problem doesn't seem to do much to help them learn to figure things out themselves.

 

If you are going to try to standardize education (as I understand cc is attempting to move toward), you can't make it require resources that many kids simply don't have through no fault of their own.

 

(none of this, other than the thank you at the beginning, is targeted at anyone in particular, just the rant in my head)

 

I

forgive the weird quote nesting - I have no idea why this happened.  As to the discussion about Common Core, parents helping with homework, etc.  First, I hated those diarama projects that my kid (and his classmates) had to do during grade school, because I did and do believe that the child should do most of the work, with the parents perhaps offering a helpful suggestion or two, providing all the materials necessary, but that's about it.  So my son did diaramas that were reflective of his age and ability.  You could clearly see the ones where the parents did the work - some of them were quite sophisticated.  So irritating!  It makes the kids who do their own work feel lacking, when they are not.

It is bittersweet that my son is graduating high school in a few months (and turning 18).  On the one hand, I'm sad to reach the official end of his childhood because I so loved being a mom and taking care of him.  But the silver lining is no more dealing with the public school system.  Oh joy!  (This is not a slam on teachers.  I have great respect for the difficult job they do.  But I will not miss dealing with the crap that comes along with the school system.)

[sophie10130]

1 hour ago, Denim Jumper said:

Let me preface this by saying the I am a huge proponent of CC because my kids are doing really well it, and it does approach math intuitively... but I just don't get it! Maybe it's because the old way came so easily to me, but at this point when they need help with the basics my answer is "Go ask your father. I'm pretty much useless until you need help with calculus or linear algebra."

This is something I only really learned how to do in college. I was NEVER good at mental math. I always failed my times tables, and I counted on my fingers through the beginning years of college too.

But it's not just teaching mental math, this way also teaches something else important that they won't name until about sixth grade, and that's the commutative property of addition. You can add any numbers in any order and still get the same answer. This is true when things get complicated in algebra and you're adding algebraic expressions, and even more complicated when you're adding integrals in Calc 2 and 3, and so on.

In algebra and especially in calc, you group things together that are easier to add and then deal with the rest later. Without an example (which I don't have off the top of my head, sorry), I can't really show you what I mean. But doing math this way, by grouping together numbers you know how to add (10s and 5s) and dealing with the rest later, it gives math "sense" as someone was saying earlier that is PRICELESS later in algebra and calc.

Sorry for those who wanted to visit Free Jinger and not get a math lesson 

[ClaraOswin]

3 hours ago, JesSky03 said:

A lot of his infant pictures show him titling his head to the left, but now that he is bigger I don't see it so much. My sister's almost 3 month old daughter (born IUGR) refuses to look to the right. You turn her head to the right and she instantly turns it back to the left. They are starting physical therapy and trying to avoid a helmet. I don't know too much about it of course, but maybe it's possible he had a mild case as an infant and has outgrown it? I do hope they take him to an actual doctor for checkups- I imagine this is something they are trained to look for. Especially considering his chaotic birth situation. 

I don't have any kids in school yet so what I've seen of CC is all been on social media. Some of it seems crazy to me and some of it I'm like okay, yeah I see how that would make sense when trying to do math in my head. But looking at the above problem, 224 + 15, it makes much more sense to me to take 224 + 10 + 5. 

Hopefully if he had any problems, he's just outgrown them. Because if they take him to a doctor, it's probably a shitty one...ha! If he's hitting his milestones okay then he's probably fine. But if I were them, it's something I definitely would have asked about (and who knows...maybe they have...though I doubt it.)

[caszandra]

1 hour ago, Valerie3kids said:

You are correct much better wording. I knew there was a better way but have fibro and sometimes words just will NOT come into my brain at will. Thank you. I hope no one thought I was blaming the woman as that is not what I was trying to do.

From a fellow fibro sufferer, lot's of items in my house are thingys, I regularly forget words when in conversation with people which can be very embarrassing, I triple check my post's before I submit them but I'm sure mistakes still make it through sometimes, fibro is the pit's. 

[Antimony]

33 minutes ago, sophie10130 said:

This is something I only really learned how to do in college. I was NEVER good at mental math. I always failed my times tables, and I counted on my fingers through the beginning years of college too.

But it's not just teaching mental math, this way also teaches something else important that they won't name until about sixth grade, and that's the commutative property of addition. You can add any numbers in any order and still get the same answer. This is true when things get complicated in algebra and you're adding algebraic expressions, and even more complicated when you're adding integrals in Calc 2 and 3, and so on.

In algebra and especially in calc, you group things together that are easier to add and then deal with the rest later. Without an example (which I don't have off the top of my head, sorry), I can't really show you what I mean. But doing math this way, by grouping together numbers you know how to add (10s and 5s) and dealing with the rest later, it gives math "sense" as someone was saying earlier that is PRICELESS later in algebra and calc.

Sorry for those who wanted to visit Free Jinger and not get a math lesson 

I remember in 2nd grade trying to explain that you can use subtraction to add and somebody telling me that was stupid. I know what I meant was like 12+7 was hard for me so I would instead do (12-2) + (7+2) = 10 + 9 which somehow made more sense.

I think this is what common core does, yes? It feels easier in your head but looks absurd when you write it down. I still do all my quick mental calculations this way. That, and dividing by estimating the distance between two more easily divisible numbers. I had to divide 210 into 4 the other day and I knew that it would be close to 50 than it would be to 7. (Since it was just splitting up milliliters of a liquid, this was sufficient information to make a container choice.)

[Valerie3kids]

I will be honest I complained about core math but FJ has helped me a great deal in understanding the whys of it and the hows of it.

My granddaughter spends afternoons with us so helping her with her homework was a problem. I do want to say I do not do her homework for her but if she had a question I was very lost. She has also had several times where the teacher has not gone over what they are doing yet in class but it is in the homework packet for the week. I did not do my children's homework and do not expect to my grandchildren's!

My brother and his wife, were the worst of helicopter parents. Every night they both sat at the table for several hours and worked on their son's homework. He even mentioned taking a refresher class to help him when he reached calculus! This continued through college where his mother would receive the topic of his essays, she would write them and then email to him before the due date. It was a running joke in our family as to "who" was actually in college. My nephew went on to get a master's degree in engineering and to be honest I do not know how much of the work was his and how much was his parents. But, OH THEY ARE SO PROUD! Which I guess they should be since they did most of the work and all of the paying for those degrees!

I do think children need the support of their parents but in today's world that is not always possible. They do need to learn to be proud of what they achieve and also to fail and get up to try again.

 

38 minutes ago, caszandra said:

From a fellow fibro sufferer, lot's of items in my house are thingys, I regularly forget words when in conversation with people which can be very embarrassing, I triple check my post's before I submit them but I'm sure mistakes still make it through sometimes, fibro is the pit's. 

It is the pits and beyond. I try to warn people if I am having a really bad word day. My husband is pretty good at deciphering at what I am trying to get across. One daughter is good at it and the other gets more confused as I try to talk! Plus, try explaining what is wrong to someone! Argh. Talk about feeling stupid. Um, yeah sometimes my words do not come out correctly so just try to follow along. Plus, all the other fun things that come with it such as constant pain etc. But, to many it doesn't exist. It is all in my head. Well, maybe so but will trade you a day in my head and see how you like it! Hugs the fibro trail is a rough walk.

[caszandra]

27 minutes ago, Valerie3kids said:

Talk about feeling stupid. Um, yeah sometimes my words do not come out correctly so just try to follow along. Plus, all the other fun things that come with it such as constant pain etc. But, to many it doesn't exist. It is all in my head. Well, maybe so but will trade you a day in my head and see how you like it! Hugs the fibro trail is a rough walk.

Hugs right back attcha.  I find the more frustrated I get at not remembering words the worse it gets.  The pain can be torture sometimes, for me there is nothing worse than when I'm that sore it feels like even my bones hurt.  I hate when people can't or don't want to acknowledge that fibro is real, the majority of them wouldn't even last an hour let alone a day in our heads having to deal with all the crap that comes along with fibro. 

[manda b]

1 hour ago, caszandra said:

From a fellow fibro sufferer, lot's of items in my house are thingys, I regularly forget words when in conversation with people which can be very embarrassing, I triple check my post's before I submit them but I'm sure mistakes still make it through sometimes, fibro is the pit's. 

My mother in law has fibro and does the suffers the same as ya'll do.

[Valerie3kids]

43 minutes ago, caszandra said:

Hugs right back attcha.  I find the more frustrated I get at not remembering words the worse it gets.  The pain can be torture sometimes, for me there is nothing worse than when I'm that sore it feels like even my bones hurt.  I hate when people can't or don't want to acknowledge that fibro is real, the majority of them wouldn't even last an hour let alone a day in our heads having to deal with all the crap that comes along with fibro. 

Exactly!! The harder I try to find a word the further "away" it goes. Ugh just ugh. The tiredness and pain and then the tiredness and pain. It is a roller coaster than there is no escape from. I never liked roller coasters any way!! Hugs!

[caszandra]

@Valerie3kids I would like your post a million times if I could.  It's great to talk to people who get it when talking about fibro.

[xlurker]

Common Core Math..thankfully I don't have to worry about it, both my kids have finally graduted and currently in/graduated from very good colleges.  Both pursued sciences, so yeah, math.  My one was classified by her a.p. calc teacher as being "the mythical student"  always solving the problem with the wrong equation/going about it in an unheard of way, but having the correct answer---always.  LOL  My hope for common core is in the Liturature section.  My kids would not have had much/if any exposure to the classics had it not been for me--teacher's called the books "challenging"  pffft--crazy talk!  Some of the problems we encountered during public schooling were probably due to "no child left behind"  Guess my point is, no matter what they are doing in school there isn't any excuse to not "supplement" it at home.  Get involved--my kids' principals were never really fond of me, that is, of course, until they saw the outcome.    

[missegeno]

One more thing on the math class topic:

One of the most valuable parts of my education, in my opinion, was that some of my math teachers introduced us to a variety of ways to get to the same outcome. We would have a few homework assignments where points would be deducted for not using the method we were working on in that assignment. But once we learned all the ways, we could use whatever method we liked for rest of it. It was a great way to make sure we could figure out the best method for ourselves. And I could also use that info to see how they relate to make math make even more sense.

[MatthewDuggar]

I was the worst when it came to "show your work" on math problems.  Sometimes I just did better working it out in my head.  Then, of course, when they tried to make sure we learned different ways of coming to the same outcome, I was hopeless.  I hated it.  I always argued that I got the right answer and that was the point.  I know now that it wasn't. LOL

[Charliemae]

 

6 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

All this is to say that while, as parents, many of us help our kids with school work, no homework assignment should expect parental help and parents should have the sense to pull back and not give too much help.

The whole point of common core is to help children understand things for themselves as part of their learning of concepts and processes.

 

 

Yes! Homework is another area I could rant and rant about. The schools I've worked at are very low income (in the PNW btw). Teachers knew you couldn't expect students to even see their parents because they were working two jobs. You don't assign anything fun because most students don't have pencils, let alone crayons. Homework should be practice for the students and a tool for teachers to see what they need to reteach. Not some ruler of parent involvement. 

6 hours ago, Georgiana said:

I've always been gifted mathematically, and I've been told it's because I have excellent math sense (I perceive math akin to physics, where numbers move and can move based upon governing laws that cannot be violated.  In my head, it is as if I am working with physical things).  My math teacher in high school used to doc me points on tests because I would skip steps in my work because I could sense whether the move or a combination of moves was "allowed".  I went from math into logic, which went into logical atomism (trying to find the "root" of math), which went into cognition and linguistics (same guys laid the foundation via Epistemology for modern linguistics and cognitive science), which went into language acquisition and early cognition, and then AI/Machine intelligence.  Basically Russell-->Wittgenstein-->Quine/Turing/Sellars etc.

All that is to say I can wrap my head easily and instinctively around many mathematical ideas and philosophies, I can create algorithms to model the world around me, I can manipulate algorithms, I can solve equations....and I cannot for the LIFE of me wrap my head around common core or operate in it.  It makes absolutely no sense to me.  

No one way of teaching math (or any subject) is going to work for everyone.  If you want people to learn, you have to let go of forcing them to do it "correctly" and just measure their ability to operate and use the knowledge.  I was in the honors math program my entire life, but I would have straight up flunked every math class if your ONLY evaluation was my ability to use and understand CC.  Math is the ability to set an manipulate equations to find a solution; CC is a WAY to do that, but it is not the only way.  My issue with common core is that schools are testing on CC, and not on the student's ability to successfully solve of manipulate an equation.  Teach them a way, but if they want to use a different way on their exams AND they get the correct answer, they should be allowed to do that.

I mean, yeah so I multiply by 9 weirdly.  So what?  It gets me the correct answer faster.  There is no reason why I shouldn't be allowed to use my method if it WORKS and it makes sense to me. 

Oh man, you so do get it! You have explained the goal beautifully! Everything we've talked about is making numbers real to kids. The whole goal is to get everyone thinking about math the way you do. But you are only seeing the building blocks. The little activities and problems students are given when they are learning each little part of that ultimate goal. The vast majority pig sample problemsthat come up are simply different ways to learn and teach place value. 

[ksgranola1]

Quote

 

Another fibro sufferer here. The first rheumatologist I went to couldn't even diagnose it 20 years ago. All I could tell him was that it felt like something was crushing the bones in my legs. I take Meloxicam now. And Lyrica. No side effects & much relief. And a soak in a hot tub helps, too.