Anna Duggar and the M Kids - Part 4

[JMO]

Did anyone see Lori Alexander's open letter to Anna? I read it on the Duggar Family Blog by Lily/Ellie.

[FlamingFundie]

Lori ALexander wrote an open letter to Anna Duggar. Now Ive seen it all. From Lily and Ellie's Duggar Family Blog:

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Dear Anna,

Truthfully, I debated whether or not I should even write this letter. I can't even begin to comprehend the pain you must be going through. I grieve with you along with many in the body of Christ. I've been mentoring women for ten years so I am simply going to encourage you with counsel from our Creator. I try to use biblical wisdom since it is our only source of Truth.

In 1 Peter 2, we are told of the sufferings of Christ and we all know how horrible they were; none of us can imagine the pain and suffering He endured especially since all the sins of the whole world that have ever or will be committed {adulterers, addictions to pornography, homosexuality, liars, fornicators, gossips, etc.} were laid upon Him in our place for all who call upon His name. He himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By His wounds you have been healed. For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls {1 Peter 2:24, 25}.

The next chapter begins with the word "Likewise..." and it addresses wives. Just as Jesus suffered, wives may suffer under a disobedient husband. Your husband has been terribly disobedient and you have suffered greatly. Jesus understands your pain. He has been there. He is with you now for He promises that He will NEVER leave you nor forsake you.

 

This chapter goes on to explain to wives who are married to disobedient husbands that they MAY win them without a word by their chaste behavior. From what I have watched of you {this is simply going to my observations of the small glimpses I've seen of you on television}, you appear to be a godly woman with a meek and quiet spirit who loves her husband. If you are, I will encourage you to 

 

 

continue on trying to win him without a word by your godly behavior since no man's methods can improve upon the Lord's. However, it is NOT your responsibility to make Joshua into a godly man as I wrote extensively in my post about wives NOT bearing the responsibility for their husband's godly behavior. We are ALL given a free will to choose to walk in the Spirit or to walk in the flesh and your husband chose to walk in the flesh. This chapter in I Peter goes on to encourage women to continue to be in subjection to their husbands without ANY fear in verse 6; just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear. 

A good friend of mine whose husband was deeply addicted to porn told me she believed the lie that her husband looked elsewhere because she wasn't good enough, pretty enough, sexy enough or because her body is not what it used to be before she bore children. Most women are highly insecure about their appearance and a feeling of inadequacy is almost always their first line of defense. Your husband did NOT fall so deeply into sin because of you but because He allowed the enemy a foothold in his life long before you were married.

 

I was encouraged yesterday to hear a report that you would not seek divorce. I have never encouraged a woman to get divorced and I never will since marriage is a model of Christ and the church and He will never divorce us. He continues to be faithful, even when we are not. Please, don't hold onto bitterness but forgive as the Lord has so graciously forgiven us. It may take a lot of time and prayer but with Christ ALL things are possible. This will be a huge witness 

 

to a watching world of God's patience and love for His children the church. You are showing Christ's love and forgiveness to a wretched sinner as we all once were before being washed in His blood and made new creatures in Him. He now even calls us saints!

You are not alone, Anna. There are many men throughout the centuries who have fallen into sexual temptation and sin. This is definitely their battle but this doesn't give your husband an excuse for his sin. It is a good thing that this evil was exposed since sin grows in the darkness but we know that God disciplines those whom He loves. We will pray that this is God's discipline on your husband's life to turn it around and be sold out for Jesus.

There are many women who are praying for you and grieving for the pain you are in. We will continue to cover you, your children and the whole extended family in prayer for it hurts them all. Continue to rest in the Lord's loving arms and seek solace and guidance from Him and His Word. God heals the brokenhearted as well as the broken. He is a good and just God. You are a beautiful women and God will walk with you through every step of this journey. He most likely will be carrying you.

In Christ's love,
Lori Alexander

 

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, FlamingFundie said:

Lori ALexander wrote an open letter to Anna Duggar. Now Ive seen it all. From Lily and Ellie's Duggar Family Blog:

 

She is so disgustingly self-righteous.

I'm also miffed that just because Jesus suffered, wives should suffer too... but you're not allowed to display any reaction or emotion of your suffering to your husband. /eyeroll

[Four is Enough]

Right. Women should suffer as Jesus suffered, but men have free will, and how does that "winning him without a word" thing work, exactly?  

[2manyKidzzz]

41 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

Right. Women should suffer as Jesus suffered, but men have free will, and how does that "winning him without a word" thing work, exactly?  

Maybe because you are praying to Jeebus you don't have to say anything. 

A very sick thing all around. 

[EmCatlyn]

4 hours ago, lost martian said:

She is so disgustingly self-righteous.

I'm also miffed that just because Jesus suffered, wives should suffer too... but you're not allowed to display any reaction or emotion of your suffering to your husband. /eyeroll

I agree. However, at least she does say that it is not Anna's fault that Josh strayed and it is not her responsibility to bring him back. She can pray and be godly and chaste, but if Josh sins it is not her fault.   That is better than blaming her.

Of course, the rest of the letter is just obnoxious.

[ChickenettiLuvr]

Oh, hell's bells.

Should NOT have read that ridiculous blather penned by Lori Alexander (whoever she may be).

I'm now quite STABBY.  And supposed to be sitting quietly at a hospital bedside.  Where I have no access to alcohol or caffeine.
Aaaaagggghhhhh.

Thank you for the post including the IBLP lawsuit.  Something to occupy me whilst I must remain awake and alert tonight.

.....

Methinks a "day trip-road trip" to Dupage County for this fuster-cluck trial could be worthwhile.  Any FJers going?

[ChickenettiLuvr]

Calling out to FJ-member "Whoosh" here for his/her legal skills (re: IBLP lawsuit) --

The typos & errors in this pleading are driving me nuts.  What-say we hire ourselves to the plaintiffs' legal team?

[Hisey]

On 1/9/2016 at 7:17 PM, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

I've been both inside and outside abuse situations before. I've made the mistakes he made, and I've lost some dearest friends to said mistakes. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that his actions did nothing he wanted them to. 

I don't know. Maybe 10, 15, years from now--when Anna is dealing with Josh's 4th affair--she may look back and remember his words. When she's ready to leave, she may recall Daniel's words and feel warm and supported, kind of like "Oh, now I understand what he meant. I had a right to feel angry then. He was angry for me."

[CherylV]

 

48 minutes ago, Hisey said:

I don't know. Maybe 10, 15, years from now--when Anna is dealing with Josh's 4th affair--she may look back and remember his words. When she's ready to leave, she may recall Daniel's words and feel warm and supported, kind of like "Oh, now I understand what he meant. I had a right to feel angry then. He was angry for me."

I hope  so! I have also been on both sides and until someone is ready to leave there isn't much that can be done. I didn't tell  anyone for the  longest time because  I wasn't  ready to leave. I know looking  back that I did everything I could to save my marriage.  I have hope that Anna will   someday get to that point of peace to let go knowing she did all she could.

[JabberJabber]

6 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I agree. However, at least she does say that it is not Anna's fault that Josh strayed and it is not her responsibility to bring him back. She can pray and be godly and chaste, but if Josh sins it is not her fault.   That is better than blaming her.

Of course, the rest of the letter is just obnoxious.

^^^ 100 times this.

And I totally disagree with her on the not seeking divorce thing but hey, what would I know 

[Howl]

On 12/29/2015 at 1:23 PM, Buzzard said:

....Josh has nothing to return to --- so when he is released he will move to Big Sandy with the rest of the gothardites.  Boob will likely build/buy a house out there under the LLC's name and Smuggles and the fam will move out as caretakers.  His reformation will continue with daily affirmations and weekly dinner with TFDW.  

Yes, that way Josh won't be around the TTH and JB & M won't have to see his face and be reminded daily of who derailed the gravy train. 

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Anna and Priss will homeskool the littles and they'll have their perfect little fundie bubble.

And if Josh wanders off, surely there will be some place for Anna and the kids to live at Big Sandy and she'll be close to her sister. 

re: Lori Alexander

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This will be a huge witness to a watching world....

No pressure, Anna, except if you leave Josh, you will disappoint every single fundie Christian on the planet and be considered a failure as a follower of Christ because bible. 

[ksgranola1]

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I hope the Big Sandy scenario will come true, as many FJ scenarios have. At least Anna will be near her OWN people & the M's will still have cousins.

I wonder, in his isolation, if Josh has ever questioned his fundie faith & lifestyle. Clearly, it's not working for him. I don't mean if he went mainstream it would give him the freedom to cheat. Plenty of secular humanists wouldn't do that, just b/c it's lowdown & dirty to your mate. What if he said, "I'm not going to church & send those kids to public school." I can dream. He's had a taste of both worlds now; you can't put a genie back in a bottle.

[FloraKitty35]

Great letter to reinforce Stockholm Syndrome, Lori.  

[AmazonGrace]

Never mind winning him back to the Lord, Anna... as long as you haven't murdered him you're doing fine, girl. 

[Drala]

@Howl : "Twit" was exactly the word that came to my mind when I read Lori Alexander's letter, especially the part about Anna's silent, submissive stance being "a huge witness to a watching world..."     

Lori is insufferable because she's so sanctimonious.   She sounds like a fundie channelling the zeitgeist of old school, pre-Vatican II nuns.   Moral superiority is the final solace of disempowered church ladies.

[Hisey]

8 hours ago, CherylV said:

 

I hope  so! I have also been on both sides and until someone is ready to leave there isn't much that can be done. I didn't tell  anyone for the  longest time because  I wasn't  ready to leave. I know looking  back that I did everything I could to save my marriage.  I have hope that Anna will   someday get to that point of peace to let go knowing she did all she could.

Actually, right now I think she is completely baffled. She did everything right and her world still fell apart.

When I saw her interview I thought her response wasn't unique, she was "Every Woman," or "Every Fundie Woman." She was the average fundie 20-year old woman, well-schooled about purity and little else in the sexual arena. She loved babies. She was waiting for prince charming. When she got him, I suspect she did everything right. She was submissive, compliant, etc. She was lucky enough to have babies easily and right away. She was happy with her babies and homemaking. Lots of young fundie women are like this. I think her world turned upside down when this "formula" didn't work.

I doubt it ever occurred to her that Josh would be drawn into porn and adultery, because that world barely registered with her. She might have known the meaning of those terms, but a girl who only learns about sex at 20 is not going to understand what those words really mean. In her sheltered world, she wouldn't have seen movies or read books that depicted the impact of adultery on a spouse and kids, or that explained what porn really is and why a man might be drawn to it. Since divorce was "evil" in all situations, she has never thought through questions like, "How could I support myself?" or "What meaning would my life have without a man?" I think it will take years to work through all this.

When Anna said she didn't want to make "a mess into a disaster," it sounded like a line that had been fed to her by Michelle or her mother. In fact, it sounds like a line that might be commonly used with many women who've been cheated on, to manipulate them into staying. It has that simplistic, fundie sound to it. I don't think Anna thought that up on her own.

Interestingly, it implies that adultery (the mess) is not as bad as the disaster (divorce!). 

 

[foreign fundie]

Lori is misquoting the Bible. The Bible is not talking about 'disobedient' husbands changed by their rule-abiding wives.

The passage is about 'unbelieving' husbands. Situations where a gentile woman had converted as a result of evangelism, but the husband had not. Rather than being a nagging pain in the butt, st. Peter advises these women (who presumably had normal marriages and wanted no divorce or could not even legally initiate one) to be the best wives they could so that their wonderful attitude would convince their husbands this Jesus business was worth looking into.  So no bible thumping but loving submission.

Back to Lori, shame on her for taking this passage out of context. Shame on her for promoting herself over Anna's back. Shame on her for laying on Anna the burden of showing the world what forgiveness is. And shame on her for ruling out divorce as an option, when even Jesus allowed for it in cases of adultery.

You know what would be a testimony to the world? If all fundies involved in this trainwreck would admit their mistakes, take their responsibility, set Anna up with a house, an income, and money for education if she wants that and then let her choose if she wants Josh or not. Instead of keeping both of them hostage and manipulating them into doing what they 'should' do, and manipulating the bible too to make it fit their ideas.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

13 hours ago, Hisey said:

I don't know. Maybe 10, 15, years from now--when Anna is dealing with Josh's 4th affair--she may look back and remember his words. When she's ready to leave, she may recall Daniel's words and feel warm and supported, kind of like "Oh, now I understand what he meant. I had a right to feel angry then. He was angry for me."

Even if she does leave Josh later on because she realized the truth in what her brother said, that doesn't mean that she's going to ever be okay with how he did it or what he did. I lost my best friend who was practically a sister because I told her that her boyfriend was abusive. She broke up with him within the year because she came to realize the truth. But she never forgave me for the way I approached the situation. And, unlike Daniel, I only did it in a private way -- the only person I talked to was her. Daniel took to social media and humiliated her with every comment because he couldn't control his anger towards Josh. If I was Anna, I wouldn't be able to forgive him because that's a huge breach of trust. I don't care what the fuck the rest of the world is saying, family shouldn't do that. If you have something to say, say it to the person, not to the world. 

[Valerie3kids]

I do love how the Fundies rework the Bible to read as they wish for the situation they are currently dealing with. Ridiculous. Just because that is what you want it to say does not make it true. Her letter was written by a twit, exactly. Frist thing that also came to my mind. Way to apply even more pressure to Anna that unless she stays with Josh her entire Christian life will be ruined. These people just made me clench my teeth.

[FleeJanaFree]

1 hour ago, Valerie3kids said:

I do love how the Fundies rework the Bible to read as they wish for the situation they are currently dealing with. 

Everyone does that. Everyone. Also you can find a bible quote that opposes another bible quote for every situation. It's just what happens when you have like a thousand pages in a book. 

[QuiverDance]

On 1/8/2016 at 2:18 PM, JDuggs said:

 

On 1/6/2016 at 6:37 AM, iknowright said:

 Abuse victims are so gaslit, they cannot see the obvious.

 

On 1/8/2016 at 9:58 AM, QuiverDance said:

Long time lurker, first time poster.  Coming out of the woodwork to co-sign this sentence times a million.  Watching Anna Duggar breaks my heart.

Anna has been cheated on and lied to which is horrible and devastating, but I wouldn't call her abused.

 

Actually, I did not call Anna abused per se or even use the word abuse on my own.   I agreed with iknowright's sentence.  I then said thinking of Anna Duggar broke my heart.  

That said, I 100% believe that Anna is immersed in an abusive culture that relies upon psychological abuse, both consciously and unconsciously, against both women and children.  She may not be physically abused, but she has been emotionally and psychologically abused since childhood.  In addition, her husband, through his dishonesty, hypocrisy, bad behavior, gross negligence and disrespect, has subjected her to public humiliation and shame.  Those things hurt as much as physical blows, and I would call those acts abusive.  Her abuser may not have broken the law in committing those acts against her, but that doesn't make the acts less heinous.

[JDuggs]

52 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

Actually, I did not call Anna abused per se or even use the word abuse on my own.   I agreed with iknowright's sentence.  I then said thinking of Anna Duggar broke my heart.  

That said, I 100% believe that Anna is immersed in an abusive culture that relies upon psychological abuse, both consciously and unconsciously, against both women and children.  She may not be physically abused, but she has been emotionally and psychologically abused since childhood.  In addition, her husband, through his dishonesty, hypocrisy, bad behavior, gross negligence and disrespect, has subjected her to public humiliation and shame.  Those things hurt as much as physical blows, and I would call those acts abusive.  Her abuser may not have broken the law in committing those acts against her, but that doesn't make the acts less heinous.

And I didn't say that you called Anna abused.

I agree that Anna and the Duggars are in a cult-like religion and the beliefs they hold are emotionally abusive, especially to women. However, the act of Josh cheating on Anna is not emotionally abusive, in my opinion. I don't believe that Josh planned to hurt Anna and publicly humiliate her in this way. Josh is so full of himself that he didn't think that he would get caught. I don't think that the Duggars and Anna's parents need to make Anna feel at fault to convince her to stay in her marriage. All they need to do is push the very Christian idea of forgiveness.

People in "regular" non-cult like marriages often stay together after one of the spouses has cheated and it is not because of brainwashing and abuse. It's because both spouses think the marriage is worth saving. I think that Anna wants to do everything on her part to save the marriage. If Josh wants to end it, Anna is leaving it to him to make the choice.

 I think that Josh acted like a huge schmuck. Until we know why he did, it's hard to judge him fairly. Anna wants to be a Gothardite. That's not Josh's fault.

 

[QuiverDance]

True.  People often stay in marriages they feel are worth saving after infidelity.  People also stay in marriages that they should leave because they are "gaslit" and unable to objectively see their situations because of resultant self-doubt.  I don't really think we are in disagreement here.  These things are hardly mutually exclusive.

[iknowright]

2 hours ago, JDuggs said:

And I didn't say that you called Anna abused.

I agree that Anna and the Duggars are in a cult-like religion and the beliefs they hold are emotionally abusive, especially to women. However, the act of Josh cheating on Anna is not emotionally abusive, in my opinion. I don't believe that Josh planned to hurt Anna and publicly humiliate her in this way. Josh is so full of himself that he didn't think that he would get caught. I don't think that the Duggars and Anna's parents need to make Anna feel at fault to convince her to stay in her marriage. All they need to do is push the very Christian idea of forgiveness.

People in "regular" non-cult like marriages often stay together after one of the spouses has cheated and it is not because of brainwashing and abuse. It's because both spouses think the marriage is worth saving. I think that Anna wants to do everything on her part to save the marriage. If Josh wants to end it, Anna is leaving it to him to make the choice.

 I think that Josh acted like a huge schmuck. Until we know why he did, it's hard to judge him fairly. Anna wants to be a Gothardite. That's not Josh's fault.

 

I agree with your second paragraph that some people do stay in their marriage after infidelity has occurred.  However, the issue is with Josh is, by his own admission, not a one time thing and he has an addiction to pornography.  So, he was mentally unfaithful many, many, times.  

The problem is Anna is in an environment that does not understand addiction or abuse, nor relies upon sound, medical, and psychological professionals to deal with it.