Donald Trump wants bans on Muslims entering US

[Mecca]

24 minutes ago, sparkles said:

But this is the thing that gets me. HE HAS NO PLAN. He's making all of these outrageous and inflammatory statements about what he'll do but doesn't say Word One about how he actually plans to do it. Let's here the specifics, Donald. Let's hear how you plan to force Mexico to pay for that wall. Let's hear how you plan to spy on every resident Muslim in this country. What programs will you cut to pay for it? Or will you raise taxes, not on the 1% of course, but on the middle class? Will you be uprooting people from their homes and putting them in camps like we did with the Japanese?  What about other people who he deems to be troublesome? TELL ME?

The cockeyed optimist in me would like to think (hope) that once people started hearing about how Trump actually planned to accomplish all of these things, it would be a wake-up call. Unfortunately, my inner pessimist tells me it's probably a pipe dream. Trump is obviously appealing to a LOT of people and that scares me more than he does.

I agree. Donald is disorganized. Trump starts rambling incoherent sentences and people cheer. Bluntly, he speaks to the lowest common denominator. The same people that have spent the last several years criticizing President Obama saying he lacked experience, never has a plan, and feel Obama has been divisive, sure did jump on the Trump bandwagon at record time. I can't wrap my brain around the fact so many are backing a guy that as gotten into Twitter wars with Cher. 

Does Donald not get that he is playing into the hands of the extremists? Does he not get that the extremists will use his words for recruitment purposes? 

 

[Fascinated]

I agree with those who think this presidential bid has gone far beyond what Trump planned or expected. I don't know if he's pissing himself with power (to paraphrase @sparkles) or shitting himself in sheer terror. 

He is, however, a complete joke. How this is being tolerated by anyone at all is astounding.

(I loved the SNL opening this weekend where 'Donald' and 'Melania' praised Hillary for 'being such a nice person' because she was hoping beyond hope that Trump would win the nomination.)

[sparkles]

19 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

wonder if he knows that he's running for President, not fascist Dictator.

 

 

[HarryPotterFan]

8 minutes ago, Mecca said:

Does Donald not get that he is playing into the hands of the extremists? Does he not get that the extremists will use his words for recruitment purposes? 

 

It took me a moment to realize you were talking about ISIS, not the extreme fear mongering conservatives that support Trump.

[FakePigtails]

So how fucked by sanctions would we be if he actually implemented these things?

[louisa05]

21 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

I

I wonder if he knows that he's running for President, not fascist Dictator.

I don't think he does. He has spent much of his life surrounded by people who just agree with whatever he says. My husband liked the Apprentice (early on) and we watched it pretty regularly through the whole run (I think in the later years it was a habit more than anything). In the boardroom part, he would make some nonsensical decision based on nothing; his kids or whichever assistants were there would make faces like they disagreed, ask questions to the contestants that made it sound like they disagreed and then at the end dutifully say "you made the right decision" or "that was your only choice" or "of course, that's what you had to do" and he would bask in being right. There was a good article by Penn Jillette about his experience on the show where he said that even on the celebrity versions, they all had to sit and politely agree with everything he said, and apparently filming the boardrooms involved listening to long unaired Trump rants about anything and everything. 

I'm sure his real business dealings run exactly the same way and we had seen what happens when people openly challenge him on anything prior to the presidential campaign. I doubt his trophy wife challenges him either. 

He seems to think that being president will be just like everything else has been for him for many years now. He will be the most important, loudest person in the room and everyone will be required to agree and do whatever he says. 

My husband says he will be impeached within a year if he were to get elected. Even a GOP congress would not be able to protect him. I'm not sure. I fear the GOP would double down regardless of what he tried as party seems to always come before anything for them. 

 

 

[SpoonfulOSugar]

I really think people should read up on Maine's governor, Paul LePage.  So many parallels to the Donald - and he was re-elected!

"Blunt" and "speaks his mind" in my world = bombastic asshole.

[Whoosh]

7 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

It took me a moment to realize you were talking about ISIS, not the extreme fear mongering conservatives that support Trump.

It is actually both if you ask me.  And the lunatic supporters go on ranting and railing against all they hate and either truly support Trump's nonsense or justify their support of his campaign with phrases like "we need change" without even realizing they are playing right into the hands of ISIS and fueling the fires for an endless and destructive cycle of ignorance, hate, and violence.

I would be liking several posts on this thread, but I just can't.  This really just makes me sick to my stomach.

[Cleopatra7]

4 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

I don't think he does. He has spent much of his life surrounded by people who just agree with whatever he says. My husband liked the Apprentice (early on) and we watched it pretty regularly through the whole run (I think in the later years it was a habit more than anything). In the boardroom part, he would make some nonsensical decision based on nothing; his kids or whichever assistants were there would make faces like they disagreed, ask questions to the contestants that made it sound like they disagreed and then at the end dutifully say "you made the right decision" or "that was your only choice" or "of course, that's what you had to do" and he would bask in being right. There was a good article by Penn Jillette about his experience on the show where he said that even on the celebrity versions, they all had to sit and politely agree with everything he said, and apparently filming the boardrooms involved listening to long unaired Trump rants about anything and everything. 

I'm sure his real business dealings run exactly the same way and we had seen what happens when people openly challenge him on anything prior to the presidential campaign. I doubt his trophy wife challenges him either. 

He seems to think that being president will be just like everything else has been for him for many years now. He will be the most important, loudest person in the room and everyone will be required to agree and do whatever he says. 

My husband says he will be impeached within a year if he were to get elected. Even a GOP congress would not be able to protect him. I'm not sure. I fear the GOP would double down regardless of what he tried as party seems to always come before anything for them. 

 

 

It's a well-known saying that Democrats fall in love with a candidate, whereas Republicans fall in line. If Trump became president, a GOP congress would fall in line, not challenge him. Given how Democrats always want to be bi-partisan and be the bigger party, I don't think they would put up much of a fight either.

[Mecca]

5 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

It took me a moment to realize you were talking about ISIS, not the extreme fear mongering conservatives that support Trump.

Yeah, both groups have a lot in common. That is what makes this all so scary. 

[Cartmann99]

11 minutes ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

I really think people should read up on Maine's governor, Paul LePage.  So many parallels to the Donald - and he was re-elected!

"Blunt" and "speaks his mind" in my world = bombastic asshole.

My heart goes out to the sane folks in Maine. I'm used to Texas electing nutbags, but I was shocked that Maine chose LePage for their governor.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

2 minutes ago, Cartmann99 said:

My heart goes out to the folks in Maine. I'm used to Texas electing nutbags, but I was shocked that Maine chose LePage for their governor.

Members of the Legislature have asked the state's attorney general to investigate him.

They're also preparing articles of Impeachment.

I think threatening to call out the Guard to fight drug wars may become very interesting.

[AmazonGrace]

1 hour ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

I was just coming to say - go J.K.

 

'How could they be confused?' tweeted David Griffith (‏@theplaguedoc). 

One is a malevolent monster with legions of fanatics & none of his own hair. The other is a wizard.'  

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3351175/Trump-bad-Voldemort-s-insult-Voldemort-J-K-Rowling-claims-presidential-hopeful-s-call-ban-Muslims-makes-worse-Dark-Lord.html#ixzz3tl4N0gIQ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Mecca]

Oh my gawd. Now we have Mike Shields, former COS of the RNC, saying that Donald's latest stunt is Obama's fault. 

 

[Whoosh]

Just now, Mecca said:

Oh my gawd. Now we have Mike Shields, former COS of the RNC, saying that Donald's latest stunt is Obama's fault. 

 

That's from the Onion or SNL, right?  RIGHT?  

[Mecca]

Just now, Woosh said:

That's from the Onion or SNL, right?  RIGHT?  

I wish. I had to rewind to make sure I heard it correctly. Yep, this was my face when I heard him. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately.  I think a lot of the knee jerk fear of Muslims is a combination of ignorance in the true sense of the world and the hasty generalization fallacy because of exposure.

I have seen quite a bit of this fear and generalizing irl from otherwise decent people (although, thankfully, no one is in favor of deportation or mass action) so I've had a couple of conversations lately about why that is.  

Because it's relevant for context my demographic is white suburban middle class Christian identifying. 

Everyone with whom I spoke about the PP shootings was horrified.  The people I know who consider themselves staunchly pro-life were even more vocal about how upset they were because of the message it sends and to them you cannot be pro-life and take the life of another person, no matter how you judge their actions.

(Fwiw the people I know who are staunchly pro-life are a handful and they are equally opposed to the death penalty, and do financially help support charities which serve low income pregnant women and mothers.  Not saying they are saints or anything, just saying that my personal experience isn't with the hypocritical fringe.)

Sorry for my lack of brevity but I felt the background info was important as I will own my opinions and no one has to agree with me, but I don't want to be taken out of context.

Anyway - as horrified as everyone was at the PP shootings no one, not one person, make sweeping statements about all white men, all Christians, or all pro-lifers.  Why?  I've heard it from a small percentage of the people I know about Muslims after every act of violence - so if they are representative of their entire culture/religion why wasn't it the same for the PP shooting?

I didn't hear anyone do it with Columbine or Sandy Hook.  Those discussions were about those specific people, not representative of all white kids.

Why?

I think it has everything to do with lack of a control sample, to get clinical about it.  

When someone from our own group loses their shit and causes so much damage of course we're angry and scared.  But they are such a small percentage of the other people in their demographic group that we know at various levels of intimacy - our control sample - that we KNOW it's an anomaly.  We KNOW it's not everyone.  We know it's not some weird genetic/cultural mutation because our own lives have shown us that murderers aren't representative of "those people" because "those people" are very similar to our people.  

Humans are tribal creatures and that starts with family.  We have an obligation to understand that everyone has biases...everyone...and pretending we don't have an inherently higher comfort level with those who are most like us is dangerous.  We need to know this about ourselves as people and confront our own biases.  If I ignore my own biases and pretend because I'm a fair and egalitarian person that I would never be subconsciously swayed toward thinking more positively toward a job applicant who looked like my daughter, had the same name as my son, reminded me of my dad, came from my neighborhood, etc. then I'm going to discriminate based on superficial shit that doesn't matter.  If I know this is a danger for almost everyone to gravitate to and imbibe with more positive qualities those who are most like us I can put measures in place to make sure I'm not allowing that to influence the decision.  Pretend it isn't there and it just keeps happening.

People like me KNOW all white men, all Christians, all pro-lifers aren't violent lunatics because our very lives have taught us from infancy that the vast majority of them are not.  

I understand that people who grew up with little exposure to the culture in which I was raised and live wouldn't have the same comfort level if all they knew of white christian pro-life men is when they are blowing something up or opening fire.

It's an extreme example - but some people are very sheltered in all cultures.  

My real life world is small - I don't have a large circle of acquaintances and most of the people I know irl are from family, work, or the neighborhood.  I live in a suburb of what is still, in 2015, one of the most racially/ethnically segregated cities in the world.  My online life is far more diverse and it's made me think about things in a way I'm not sure I would without that exposure.  

So for people who don't know Muslims in their life (for this discussion - insert any group of which people are afraid and make kneejerk negative assumptions) they have no control sample.  The Muslims they see are on the news and to them every time they see one it's dangerous.  

No control sample.

I'm not excusing bigotry or ignorance...we are all obligated to educate ourselves and get past it...but pointing it out to people that "Muslim family drops off drycleaning" or "Muslim teenager waves at neighbor as he cuts the lawn" doesn't get on CNN can open some eyes to the fact that they are only seeing the exceptions and not the whole picture.

 

 

 

 

[nausicaa]

2 hours ago, sparkles said:

I was watching a clip of him on CBS This Morning and he was asked what his plan was for keeping all Muslims in this country under surveillance. His answer was "Use your imagination." *smirk* NO, asshole. TELL ME. You're running for president, you keep throwing out these outrageous statements about building walls, deporting and spying on people so tell me. HOW? How to you plan to subvert the Constitution? How will you handle the protests and resistance from the reasonable citizens of this country? TELL ME. I simply can't understand why people are falling all over this egotistical gasbag.

I have total faith he won't be elected. He won't even be the Republican candidate. The RNC won't allow it. 

And he obviously can't do half the things he claims he will do. The President doesn't make unilateral decisions about immigration and taxation. Donald Trump needs to take an eighth grade civics class. 

[Whoosh]

1 minute ago, nausicaa25 said:

I have total faith he won't be elected. He won't even be the Republican candidate. The RNC won't allow it. 

And he obviously can't do half the things he claims he will do. The President doesn't make unilateral decisions about immigration and taxation. Donald Trump needs to take an eighth grade civics class. 

While I think this is totally true, my huge concern is that this current situation "normalizes" the guy/gal that is a half-step to the left of Trump.  That is terrifying.

[nausicaa]

Just now, Woosh said:

While I think this is totally true, my huge concern is that this current situation "normalizes" the guy/gal that is a half-step to the left of Trump.  That is terrifying.

True, true. It definitely helps the more right-wing candidates, because everyone, even Democrats, will sigh with relief "At least it's not Trump."

Seriously, Santorum looks sane, balanced, and progressive compared to Trump. At least he understands the basics of government and actually knows what position he is running for. And he's been my arch nemesis for years. 

[Whoosh]

Just now, nausicaa25 said:

True, true. It definitely helps the more right-wing candidates, because everyone, even Democrats, will sigh with relief "At least it's not Trump."

Seriously, Santorum looks sane, balanced, and progressive compared to Trump. At least he understands the basics of government and actually knows what position he is running for. And he's been my arch nemesis for years. 

Yep.  This.  Equally if not more concerning than normalizing candidates is that it normalizes these thoughts and beliefs in certain segments of the population as well.  And let's face it, our country is already a big enough horror show and laughing stock in the eyes of the international community.   

ARG - before I write the wall-o-text to end wall-o-texts I think I will go prepare myself a nice tasty salad (with fruit, cause I like fruit in my salad  ).

[nausicaa]

3 minutes ago, Woosh said:

Yep.  This.  Equally if not more concerning than normalizing candidates is that it normalizes these thoughts and beliefs in certain segments of the population as well.  And let's face it, our country is already a big enough horror show and laughing stock in the eyes of the international community.   

ARG - before I write the wall-o-text to end wall-o-texts I think I will go prepare myself a nice tasty salad (with fruit, cause I like fruit in my salad  ).

Wall'o'text it up girl if that's what makes you feel better!

[sparkles]

19 minutes ago, nausicaa25 said:

I have total faith he won't be elected. He won't even be the Republican candidate. The RNC won't allow it. 

And he obviously can't do half the things he claims he will do. The President doesn't make unilateral decisions about immigration and taxation. Donald Trump needs to take an eighth grade civics class. 

The RNC may not let him be the nominee but they ARE letting him do their dirty-work for them by paving the way for the "not-as-scary-as-Trump" candidate, whoever that turns out to be. Frankly, I don't think any of the other Republican candidates are much better when you get right down to it. They're just keeping quiet for now and biding their time.

And while it's true that the President doesn't make unilateral decisions, a far-right Republican POTUS with a far-right Republican Congress can do a helluva lot of damage that could take us decades to recover from. Our checks and balances would pretty much cease to exist. Any moderate Republican these days gets shut down faster than you can blink.

[samurai_sarah]

25 minutes ago, nausicaa25 said:

I have total faith he won't be elected. He won't even be the Republican candidate. The RNC won't allow it. 

And he obviously can't do half the things he claims he will do. The President doesn't make unilateral decisions about immigration and taxation. Donald Trump needs to take an eighth grade civics class. 

I hope you are right. But what frightens me, looking in from the outside, isn't so much the stuff Trump spews, but the support he gets. His supporters are the truly scary ones, because there seem to be quite a few.

[Mecca]

1 hour ago, Woosh said:

While I think this is totally true, my huge concern is that this current situation "normalizes" the guy/gal that is a half-step to the left of Trump.  That is terrifying.

And this is why Cruz is seeing a surge in his poll numbers. He looks less terrifying and reasonable next to Mr. Aqua Net even though Cruz is equally if not more terrifying as Trump.

Again, the GOP is a mess. While the candidates are all condeming Trump, they actually hold a lot of the same beliefs as Trump. They just state their views differently. Only Christian refugees can come into the country, anyone?