Josh Duggar Part 9: Adult Film Star Lawsuits are so Godly

[lascuba]

4 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

Prostitution is legal in Nevada, and there are brothels set up like this, where the workers negotiate their own prices. HBO airs specials about one brothel in partcular, the Bunny Ranch.

I have always wondered why horny females without partners don't have the same options to pay for sex as men do. Yeah, we know about gigolos and all that, but they are hardly streetwalkers. Male streetwalkers tend to be for homosexual activity. Not advocating for any of this, just observing.

I think a big part of the reason is that the consequences for women would be so much greater, as well as women being viewed as just less sexual over all. I read an article years ago, about caretakers of men with severe physical disabilities (cerebral palsy was one of them) hiring sex workers for them. The tone of the article was very positive, the men spoke of how much better they felt after sex, less tense, and at least one of the escorts was interviewed and she was very positive about it as well. I actually really enjoyed the article and had nothing against the concept (once I got past the instinctual weirdness of a mother hiring an escort for her son), but it did--and still--bother me that if if the article had been about severely disabled women hiring male escorts, the tone would have been very different, with cries of victimization at the very least, as if a lot of women aren't also in desirous of sexual release.

[Jigsaw3]

There's a quote from some actor (Charlie Sheen?) about why he pays for sex:

"I'm not paying her for sex, I'm paying her to go away afterwards."

In other words, it is in theory a purely commercial transaction that is complete after the deed is done and the money is exchanged. Neither party retains any leverage on the other afterwards. In Sheen's case, that didn't work out so well thanks to the STDs the women received, but Josh was perhaps hoping for the same lack of emotional involvement, and for the privacy that is implicit in such a transaction. Unfortunately, like Sheen, Josh decided to bring some unmentioned business to the table, and that's what got both men in trouble.

[SilverBeach]

6 hours ago, OnceUponATime said:

Why pay when you can go to a pub and get picked up for free?
I'm actually curious about why someone would choose to pay; is it because it should remove the risk of emotional attachment? less effort required? ...

btw are the rates josh apparently paid market price? because that seems like a LOT of money to me
 

Some women do not like going to clubs/bars. Some want to make sure they get what they want, just like men do when they pay. Never paid and would not pay, but I could see where some women could use a paid option. People pay because they are horny and want the release, may not have a regular partner, or said partner won't do certain things. Women desire sex as much as men do, but the sexual marketplace does not recognize this. Again, just observing.

4 hours ago, Georgiana said:

Lack of market.  Even conventionally unattractive/undesirable women can get a man to sleep with them for free with relatively little effort.  However, in general, it takes a lot more effort for men to get women to sleep with them, and men who are undesirable for whatever reason may be effectively shut out of the market.

So there is a base of men who want sex but who are unwilling to invest the effort in finding a partner or are unable to.  The group of women in the same situation is much, much smaller to the extent that a small group of skilled professionals can essentially corner it.  

ADULT LANGUAGE AHEAD!

I think there is a pent up market that is not acknowledged. That's a myth that men will sleep with you regardless of appearance. It's a myth that only undesirable men pay for it...look at Charlie Sheen. Some women may not get out much or enjoy going to meat markets. But they get horny and want a release other than masturbation and want to pay and move on. Not all women get emotionally attached by sex. Also, not all men perform oral sex, just like all women don't. Some women  would be willing to pay for the specific acts they want.

[SilverBeach]

4 hours ago, lascuba said:

I think a big part of the reason is that the consequences for women would be so much greater, as well as women being viewed as just less sexual over all. I read an article years ago, about caretakers of men with severe physical disabilities (cerebral palsy was one of them) hiring sex workers for them. The tone of the article was very positive, the men spoke of how much better they felt after sex, less tense, and at least one of the escorts was interviewed and she was very positive about it as well. I actually really enjoyed the article and had nothing against the concept (once I got past the instinctual weirdness of a mother hiring an escort for her son), but it did--and still--bother me that if if the article had been about severely disabled women hiring male escorts, the tone would have been very different, with cries of victimization at the very least, as if a lot of women aren't also in desirous of sexual release.

Yes! Isn't it about time that the stereotype of women wanting sex far less than men is challenged, five decades into the sexual revolution and women's movement? If the disabled woman is an adult who can make decisions for herself, there is no reason she should be denied sexual release because of society wagging its collective finger. Men and women have a broad range of sexual desire, and more highly sexed people should be able to obtain satisfaction no matter what gender. A healthy sex life is beneficial to all.

Funny how Charlie Sheen has been mentioned twice already.

[lascuba]

I'm not going to lie...there have been plenty of times in my life where the option of paying a man to go away after sex would have been welcome. When single, sometimes I just want sex without having to deal with a potentially off-putting personality (unfortunately, while I like casual sex, i cant ignore when a person annoys me no matter how good the sex), and a professional would be perfect for that. 

[TheSilverTongue]

11 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

Now while it would indeed be interesting if Josh did meet someone at his "rehab" (assuming of course he's even there) I highly doubt that he would want to anger his father and his family further.    Also consider that there have been no sighting or reports of Josh being there which has suggested to me the possibility that he's segregated from the rest of the RU participants.   Therefore making it even more unlikely he would meet someone. 

That he would want to leave Anna, regardless of there being someone in the picture or not, I can definitely see him doing that, though I am not sure that it would be now.   He's probably too busy trying to work out trying to fit back into the godly, married man mold and reintegrate with his family; he will have to try and fail before he figures out that this marriage is not working for him, if that is the case.  I can't see JB putting him into any treatment program that will get to the true root of his problems and allow him to change things in his life that aren't working.  Quite the opposite.

I almost worry about this. He's basically in prison only the prison is run by religious wackos, not by the state. He's stuck there because he has no where else to go. I wonder what they're making him do in that place? It doesn't sound like the building houses summer camp they sent him to before. The whole place sounds super sketchy and borderline abusive. They don't have any real doctors or psychologists there. Just religious people. 

[mebeforee]

I feel like I would be really suspicious of JimBob if he didn't behave the way he does. I think he is someone who has always been really concerned that he WOULD cheat if given the chance. And maybe that's why he doesn't look at/talk to women he meets. But multiple sources, people who have met him through business and waitresses he's met, have said he refuses to make eye contact or speak to them. I have a hard time figuring out how a guy could find a woman to cheat with if that's how he acts. But maybe that's largely because he's scared he would do it, or has done it in the past. I just don't see much in the way of JB having illegitimate kids. I think he's tried to socially isolate himself too much for that to be a real possibility.

[Kittikatz]

10 hours ago, justoneoftwo said:

They could not have realized this because Josh could not have admitted he would do anything to prevent the quiver.  He might not have believed it, but he was too tied to it to actually say lets prevent, not just hope.  

I believe people pay because 1. they feel less judged by professionals when they ask for out there things.  2. professionals are better able to accommodate out there things.  3. professionals may have a better grasp on what the person is really looking for, or be better able to tease out what the person desires.  

Just a guess from talking with a professional who describes her job as something closer to a therapist than you would think.  

Agreed with all of the above, but I know a few people in the sex industry and have dated a couple of men who were candid about paying for sex when they were young,  so I also think that there is a power/control element that is very much in play in many prostitution contexts . Hiring a sex worker allows Johns to avoid the risk of rejection and lets them maintain control of the situation in a way that isn't possible in a social context. I truly think that this certainty is what some people enjoy when they purchase sex. Generally, in sexual transactions, the John gets to choose which prostitute they hire without having to worry much about whether the prostitute really likes them or is attracted to the John, and then, sexually, the John gets to feel even more 'in charge'  by dictating much of what happens and when it happens. The likes/dislikes/turn ons/offs of the prostitute  are far less important in a transactional environment than they would be in a social context such as picking up some random person at a club. And the icing for this sort of power hungry customer is that no matter how awful it was for the sex worker, the worker, who probably wants a tip/repeat business and/or not to be roughed up/accused of stealing the 'donation' is going to tell the John he was wonderful and validate the experience as a good one.  It's difficult for many people who have not been in the situation to fully understand what a skewed power dynamic is in effect when sex is commoditized, and how vulnerable many sex workers truly are. Some of this may be less true for high end escorts working in a legal brothel or for a large agency, and it could be mitigated by better regulation of the sex trade but at the end of the day, money is a form of power, and an imbalance of power often leads to abuses, mistreatment and dehumanisation of the person who is lesser in power.

[SilverBeach]

14 hours ago, Kittikatz said:

It's difficult for many people who have not been in the situation to fully understand what a skewed power dynamic is in effect when sex is commoditized, and how vulnerable many sex workers truly are. Some of this may be less true for high end escorts working in a legal brothel or for a large agency, and it could be mitigated by better regulation of the sex trade but at the end of the day, money is a form of power, and an imbalance of power often leads to abuses, mistreatment and dehumanisation of the person who is lesser in power.

I have zero real life experience with sex work or sex workers, but how is the power imbalance in sex work different than that of any service provider and the one paying for the service? Many people barely notice those who work for them or on them, and certainly do not treat them as equals. Those Bunny Ranch women made lots of money and few did it full time. If they choose to perform sex services and accept whatever disadvantages come along with that decision, they have that right.

My concern is human trafficking and child exploitation, but these abuses are not limited to the sex industry.

Note that I have been abused, mistreated, and dehumanized in my corporate and government professional career, at the hands of "managers" who held all the power.

 

[Kittikatz]

11 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

I have zero real life experience with sex work or sex workers, but how is the power imbalance in sex work different than that of any service provider and the one paying for the service? Many people barely notice those who work for them or on them, and certainly do not treat them as equals. Those Bunny Ranch women made lots of money and few did it full time. If they choose to perform sex services and accept whatever disadvantages come along with that decision, they have that right.

My concern is human trafficking and child exploitation, but these abuses are not limited to the sex industry.

Note that I have been abused, mistreated, and dehumanized in my corporate and government professional career, at the hands of "managers" who held all the power.

 

I understand what you are saying about people with money/social power sometimes treating people without those advantages badly, but the critical difference between a normal worker, doing a legal job and a sex worker is that someone doing legal work has at least some legal protections and the hope of recourse if they are mistreated or abused. A sex worker, on the other hand, does not have the same rights or protections that the rest of us do. Add to this the fact that their work place is often dictacted by the client, and may be the clients home, or some less than safe backrooms/hotels/motels. The danger of being assaulted, abused, robbed or cheated out of money in these situations is high, and the vast majority of society is realistically not going to care if a sex worker is hurt, scared or abused in the course of their work. In many cases, members of polite society are inclined to assume that people in this profession are lying if they report an assault or other criminal activity, this same assumption would not necessarily be made if someone in another profession made the same report.

One of my friends, E, hooked her way through her last year of uni - her grant money ran out and E found out too late to take out a student loan. She wasn't a street walker - she worked high end hotel bars and made a lot of money. E's clients were for the most part, middle class, white bread guys in town for conferences. In the course of that year E was routinely verbally abused, assaulted three times (just counting the times she wound up in hospital), was shorted money more times than I can count, and was so terrified by one of her client's spur-of-the-moment decision to act out a fantasy involving knife play that she ran out of the room naked. Flat out, she could have could have chosen to suspend her studies for a year or two and saved up money and gone back later, but she chose sex work instead, and paid a high price for that choice. She was treated viciously by many of the ER staff, with contempt by most of the police (she was licenced to escort  by the City, but was technically breaking the criminal code by soliticing, so I can see police being less than thrilled with the grey area she occupied in Canadian law, but it doesn't excuse rudeness or unprofessional behaviour) and on one memorable occasion when a client grabbed her by the throat and dragged her into a stairwell, was utterly ignored by hotel staff who could have come to her assistance, probably because she was "just a hooker". Thankfully , E lived through the year and now has a good job in her chosen field.

A lot of sex workers have it a whole lot worse. Especially those on the street or doing out call work. These ladies often had very bad situations growing up, frequently are run aways and may easily fall prey to drugs and human trafficking. One of the biggest human rights failings in Canada in recent years is the large number of (mostly) indigenous women who disappeared over the past three decades. Many were involved in the street life, and no government or enforcement agency could be bothered to try to find out what happened to them, mostly because they were percieved by many in positions of power to be to be lesser " just poor women", "just drug addicts", " just homeless ", " just hookers", "just first nations", " just ..." . The federal government has recently pledged to investigate these disappearances and I hope that they don't just investigate what happened - I hope they investigate what failed these women and their families so we can make changes and do better by vulnerable people going forward.

Some articles related to the missing women:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/08/canada-40m-inquiry-violence-indigenous-women-justin-trudeau

http://www.amnesty.ca/our-work/campaigns/no-more-stolen-sisters

The ladies at the Bunny Ranch and similar establishments are extraordinarily privileged compared to most North American sex workers and their experiences are by no means typical.

. 

[ksgranola1]

Quote

1.  

The women of the Bunny Ranch are told to put on their "outfits" and parade in front of a client who then picks one out. Ick. I can't see lowering myself like that for money.

[SilverBeach]

30 minutes ago, ksgranola1 said:

The women of the Bunny Ranch are told to put on their "outfits" and parade in front of a client who then picks one out. Ick. I can't see lowering myself like that for money.

I can't either.

5 hours ago, Kittikatz said:

The ladies at the Bunny Ranch and similar establishments are extraordinarily privileged compared to most North American sex workers and their experiences are by no means typical.

Never said they were, but it is an example of how working conditions for working girls can improve with legalization/regulation.

To be clear, I am not advocating for sex work. I understand that, particularly among streetwalkers, there is a sad undercurrent of drug abuse, low self esteem, and limited employment options. People are indeed victimized on the street. I saw the saddest documentary about this. But it is fruitless to try to eliminate prostitution, it is not called the world's oldest profession for nothing. So why not protect sex workers too?

Isn't Joshley's hooker suing him?

 

[quiversR4hunting]

@Marian the Librarian has been able to get court info on Doug the Tool^(tm) ; has anyone been able to get any court info about Danica's lawsuit against Josh?

[socalrules]

38 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

@Marian the Librarian has been able to get court info on Doug the Tool^(tm) ; has anyone been able to get any court info about Danica's lawsuit against Josh?

If the lawsuit was just filed, it will be months before anything happens. Josh likely has not even answered the complaint yet. We don't even know if he has been served with the complaint. Even once he is served and answers, it will be awhile before anything happens. If Arkansas is anything like most states, we won't know what is going on as far as written or oral discovery. That is usually not a part of the public record and doesn't get filed with the Court. Getting juicy details just isn't going to happen.

[quiversR4hunting]

1 hour ago, socalrules said:

If the lawsuit was just filed, it will be months before anything happens. Josh likely has not even answered the complaint yet. We don't even know if he has been served with the complaint. Even once he is served and answers, it will be awhile before anything happens. If Arkansas is anything like most states, we won't know what is going on as far as written or oral discovery. That is usually not a part of the public record and doesn't get filed with the Court. Getting juicy details just isn't going to happen.

Thanks for all the info. It does say he has 20 days. The complaint was signed on 11/17/2015. So there could be behind the scenes stuff going on (as you point out) and we wouldn't know.

The lawsuit was filed in Pennsylvania not Arkansas. "Court of Common Pleas, County of Philadelphia Civil Division". Just want to make that correction so if anyone is trying to find info on it. http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/1118-josh-duggar-tmz-doc-small.pdf

[Shadoewolf]

I checked the AR court dockets, there's only one thing with Josh, it was years ago and it was an insurance thing. Danica must have filed it somewhere else. 

The Duggars do have a current court case, a property dispute over a Smokehouse Trail, Fayetteville AR address. They seem to have issues with banks and foreclosures.

[quiversR4hunting]

6 minutes ago, Shadoewolf said:

I checked the AR court dockets, there's only one thing with Josh, it was years ago and it was an insurance thing. Danica must have filed it somewhere else. 

The Duggars do have a current court case, a property dispute over a Smokehouse Trail, Fayetteville AR address. They seem to have issues with banks and foreclosures.

Danica filed in Pennsylvania not Arkansas. I couldn't find anything in PA but I couldn't search very long.

[justoneoftwo]

29 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Thanks for all the info. It does say he has 20 days. The complaint was signed on 11/17/2015. So there could be behind the scenes stuff going on (as you point out) and we wouldn't know.

The lawsuit was filed in Pennsylvania not Arkansas. "Court of Common Pleas, County of Philadelphia Civil Division". Just want to make that correction so if anyone is trying to find info on it. http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/1118-josh-duggar-tmz-doc-small.pdf

The complaint being signed and served are two different things.  He has 20 days from when it is served, not when it is signed.  

[socalrules]

Sorry, I completely forgot it was filed in PA. Anyway, once he is served, his attorney can always ask Plaintiff's counsel for an extension to file an answer, usually 20-30 days. This gives the attorney a chance to evaluate the complaint and decide if they want to file an answer or a demurrer. It's a common professional courtesy and likely will happen here. 

I forgot to add, with the lawsuit filed in PA and Josh being a citizen of Arkansas, it is possible that plaintiff may have to request an order from the Arkansas court to allow service of the complaint on Josh in Arkansas. Otherwise, service of the complaint may not be considered to have been proper.  I have had that issue but not in Arkansas. I don't know anything about law in either of those states so I can't be sure what hoops they will make you jump through. Also, Josh will have to retain a PA attorney for this. So it could be awhile before Josh is required to respond to the Complaint. 

[quiversR4hunting]

2 minutes ago, socalrules said:

Sorry, I completely forgot it was filed in PA. Anyway, once he is served, his attorney can always ask Plaintiff's counsel for an extension to file an answer, usually 20-30 days. This gives the attorney a chance to evaluate the complaint and decide if they want to file an answer or a demurrer. It's a common professional courtesy and likely will happen here. 

I wish it was done in Idaho- their case mgmt. system is the bomb! We would be able to see if he was served and each little thing (not the documents but each time the clerk touches it). PA may have a great case mgmt. system too but I haven't found it.

Thanks for the info!

[Shadoewolf]

6 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Thanks for all the info. It does say he has 20 days. The complaint was signed on 11/17/2015. So there could be behind the scenes stuff going on (as you point out) and we wouldn't know.

The lawsuit was filed in Pennsylvania not Arkansas. "Court of Common Pleas, County of Philadelphia Civil Division". Just want to make that correction so if anyone is trying to find info on it. http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/1118-josh-duggar-tmz-doc-small.pdf

We posted right about the same time.  Interesting stuff on the other Duggars though too!

[JenniferJuniper]

6 hours ago, socalrules said:

 

I forgot to add, with the lawsuit filed in PA and Josh being a citizen of Arkansas, it is possible that plaintiff may have to request an order from the Arkansas court to allow service of the complaint on Josh in Arkansas. 

Josh was residing in MD at the time and it looks like the plan was to try to serve him in Illinois at his dorm at RU. He no longer owns property in Arkansas and hasn't lived there in 4 months, so I'm not sure what his legal residence is.  Maybe it's whichever house Anna is living in.  Not sure where Danica was living at the time although I think it looks like a California address on the complaint.  Incidents happened in Philadelphia.

Talk about globetrotting.  (My life is so dull!) I'm sure there will be a lot of maneuvering on Josh's part to drag out service and to get the Philly venue changed, although I'm not sure he'll have much luck in the end.  Assuming of course they haven't settled already....    

[missegeno]

So, I can see that this discussion has gone in many different ways, and I'm about to change it up again. Today I looked up the toughguy88 account on Fetlife again (which, if I recall correctly, was tied to the email address used for the Ashley Madison account and which seems to fit the hallmarks of a Joshley account).

The interesting thing is that the account has been active sporadically as Joshley has been supposedly in rehab. 18 days ago, the account posted to the Southwest Missouri Petplay group, 25 days ago to a thread entitled "Beer buddies?" in Arkansas Personals, 2 months ago solicited NWA redheads in another Personals thread, and more. One thing that I found absolutely fascinating was the comment  "lol actually I do have a woman beer buddy, she's lesbian...soooo..." Later, after a question about if he ever hooked up with the lesbian friend, he responds "there's a reason I said lesbian and not bi."

Does Joshley have a lesbian "friend?" Did he make her up? What is the deal with that comment!?!?!?

Also very interesting that the account was very active 4 months ago. I don't have actual dates (at this point it just says "4 months ago" next to the posts), but there were links to porn vids (I tried to check it out but the video isn't up anymore - was on xvideos.com) and a bunch of solicitations/responses to solicitations. There wasn't much of anything between 3 years ago and 4 months ago, so I wonder if that's where he's moved his attentions now that Ashley Madison isn't getting the job done.

[Drala]

How do you know toughguy88 is Joshley?  Can you confirm?

[MatthewDuggar]

She said it's tied to the AM email he used.  Maybe he has a "buddy" using his account?  It does baffle what could be up if he is indeed actively using that account.