IFL Science takes on Abstinence

[Defrauding Delilah]

http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/what-happens-men-who-stay-abstinent-until-marriage

[AmazonGrace]

The men of The River grappled with pornography use, masturbation, lust and same-sex desire, all of which can potentially derail these men from their pledge.

Just a wild guess but if they grappled with same-sex desire, maybe it has something to do with why their marriages ended up being sexually unsatisfying.

 

Group members had an elaborate network of accountability partners to help them resist temptations. For example, one had an accountability partner who viewed his weekly online browsing history to make sure he wasn’t looking at pornography. Another accountability partner texted him each night to make sure that he and his girlfriend were “behaving.”

 Ah, the land of innocence in which you can't delete items from your browsing history or surf on porn sites in incognito mode.

[Defrauding Delilah]

I can see how abstinence only sex ed sets these kids up for failure. I was raised in a religious household where sex wasn't really talked about. I did get good sex ed in school (in Texas no less!) but I think that had more to do with my 9th grade biology teacher than anything else. I didn't buy the whole purity thing and had sex as a teen and I'm glad I did because it kept me from putting sex on a pedestal. Sex is awesome but two sheltered virgins bumping uglies isn't going to make for great sex. Just like most other things we do, we have to learn along the way how to be good at sex. 

 

The accountability partners thing blows my mind. 

[AmazonGrace]

It would totally put me off sex and the whole guy if he kept texting to somebody that we ain't doing it every night.

[apandaaries]

I was really happy to see that study in a mainstream blog.  The results were very much what I expected, too.  I don't understand how people can imagine that being completely asexual, barely even discussing sex, if at all, up to the point of marriage will result in a sexually fulfilling marriage. It sounds terrible for the both the women and the men.  

[Defrauding Delilah]

Yeah but the women don't matter. They're supposed to be always ready but they're not supposed to want it.

[2xx1xy1JD]

What struck me most was that this is about far more than simply delaying sex until marriage.

The whole notion of sexuality and relationships seems to be off.  Ditto with communication.

Even though we've discussed it here, I was still surprised to read just how many of these men had been taught that women were nonsexual.  Well, OF COURSE you are going to have problems if married sex is just about the man feeling like he now has a legitimate outlet for his sexual desires, and the woman feeling like she needs to spread her legs so that she can serve him and prevent him from cheating.  That's not a relationship.  There is no intimacy.

The "beastly elements" part was also really disturbing.  These men are basically developing a split personality when it comes to sex - the public side maintaining these impossible standards (not just refraining from actual sex, but also from masturbation and even thinking about sex), and the beastly side tempted into the most impersonal and dehumanizing version of sex.  It's too easy for this to spin out into the men coming to be increasingly judgmental on the public side, increasingly likely to hate women for tempting them, and to have the public side and the beastly side so split from each other that there is little control over the beastly side when it emerges.

These men would be far better off if they could simply acknowledge that it's perfectly normal for men and women to be sexual beings.  That doesn't mean they have to be promiscuous.  You can have strong sexual feelings, masturbate, have fantasies, etc. - and still make a conscious decision to save sex for a committed, monogamous relationship.  You can learn that when you have sex with someone you love, it can be a way for BOTH of you to care for each other, be extra-sensitive to their reactions, make them feel good and definitely refrain from doing anything they don't like.

 

[Fascinated]

Do the women even understand that they are supposed to enjoy sex?  Obviously some couples must figure it out but, for those who don't, do the wives think that, because they are popping out blessings, sex is successful, even if it isn't physically satisfying?  If they get all their information from Gothard and the like, how much do they really understand?  Maybe the Fundie porn obsession comes in handy. I don't know. 

[violynn]

Do the women even understand that they are supposed to enjoy sex?  Obviously some couples must figure it out but, for those who don't, do the wives think that, because they are popping out blessings, sex is successful, even if it isn't physically satisfying?  If they get all their information from Gothard and the like, how much do they really understand?  Maybe the Fundie porn obsession comes in handy. I don't know. 

I didn't know I was supposed to enjoy sex until I was in my mid-twenties, after 6 years of regular sex.  I'd never heard women have orgasms, only men, so I always thought those tingles or shivery feelings of arousal were the most women got.  It wasn't til I learned to masturbate that I found out what I'd been missing all those years and boy was I pissed off!!!!

Unfortunately, the hubby who hadn't managed to figure out how to give me an orgasm never learned.  Too many years of him being the only one really enjoying the physical side trained him in what our married sex was like, and despite trying to guide him toward the goal, he just carried on per usual.  I didn't divorce him because of that, but he was a selfish dick in every other area of our life.  Ah well.

Bless those poor fundie girls hearts.

[apandaaries]

Do the women even understand that they are supposed to enjoy sex?  Obviously some couples must figure it out but, for those who don't, do the wives think that, because they are popping out blessings, sex is successful, even if it isn't physically satisfying?  If they get all their information from Gothard and the like, how much do they really understand?  Maybe the Fundie porn obsession comes in handy. I don't know. 

In my opinion, based on my extensive reading from here, Patheos, Homeschoolers Anonymous, and a multitude of books by women who broke out of  different religious sects with a high value placed on "purity" and abstinence, I don't think the women are having very good sex (and if Josh D is any example, the guys aren't able to communicate their needs and/or who knows what else).  I've argued with a few folks on FJ about that, because MEchelle is always ostensibly saying sex-positive things about her relationship with JB.  It's my opinion that a few words can't make up for a lifetime of training, including a lot of policing of the actions of others.  Words are cheap, and their actions reveal something else.  The Duggars may say that sex in marriage is holy and wonderful, but if it's so dirty and sinful elsewhere, well, I'm not sure HOW kids could make sense of that message.  

  

[Drala]

I was really happy to see that study in a mainstream blog.  The results were very much what I expected, too.  I don't understand how people can imagine that being completely asexual, barely even discussing sex, if at all, up to the point of marriage will result in a sexually fulfilling marriage. It sounds terrible for the both the women and the men.  

I was fascinated by the study, too.  I was especially struck by the assumption that marriage would automatically address all the sexual issues that the abstinent partners brought to the relationship.  How can that be when there is no shared language on which to base communication?  Sexual relations are, at their core, a form of communication.

[Letgo]

What struck me most was that this is about far more than simply delaying sex until marriage.

The whole notion of sexuality and relationships seems to be off.  Ditto with communication.

Even though we've discussed it here, I was still surprised to read just how many of these men had been taught that women were nonsexual.  Well, OF COURSE you are going to have problems if married sex is just about the man feeling like he now has a legitimate outlet for his sexual desires, and the woman feeling like she needs to spread her legs so that she can serve him and prevent him from cheating.  That's not a relationship.  There is no intimacy.

The "beastly elements" part was also really disturbing.  These men are basically developing a split personality when it comes to sex - the public side maintaining these impossible standards (not just refraining from actual sex, but also from masturbation and even thinking about sex), and the beastly side tempted into the most impersonal and dehumanizing version of sex.  It's too easy for this to spin out into the men coming to be increasingly judgmental on the public side, increasingly likely to hate women for tempting them, and to have the public side and the beastly side so split from each other that there is little control over the beastly side when it emerges.

These men would be far better off if they could simply acknowledge that it's perfectly normal for men and women to be sexual beings.  That doesn't mean they have to be promiscuous.  You can have strong sexual feelings, masturbate, have fantasies, etc. - and still make a conscious decision to save sex for a committed, monogamous relationship.  You can learn that when you have sex with someone you love, it can be a way for BOTH of you to care for each other, be extra-sensitive to their reactions, make them feel good and definitely refrain from doing anything they don't like.

 

That article reminds me of Josh Duggar and his encounters with Danica Whatshername. (Sorry, can't remember her last name-maybe Dillon?) Was Josh aware that when he married Anna she might actually like sex? And if she did, that's a good thing? Was Anna aware of this? I wonder, because Jill and Jessa seem to be just fine with that part of marriage.  Derick should certainly know how sex should work, and Jill did mention having a short engagement so those unrighteous desires don't cause sin. But Josh...Danica's story of the rough sex reminds me of this "beastly" attitude mentioned. Could Josh be really uncomfortable if his wife liked sex? That article was so sad-to wait so long and then not really enjoy what you waited for. Sad, and so necessary.

Totally agree with the bolded. Why must sex be so demonized and seen as evil temptation, as beastly? It's normal! If God gave it to people to enjoy, why not enjoy it? Be abstinent, but don't consider sex as bad, just as a gift worth waiting for within marriage. I just don't understand their beliefs about sex, especially within marriage.