"19 Kids" Cancelled

[JenniferJuniper]

Obviously Oprah knew there was some substance to to the allegations or she wouldn't have cancelled the interview, and she wouldn't have OWN be part of Discovery Networks. Given the type of person she is, it doesn't make sense that she would just say "oh well, I tried" and let it go. At the very least she should have confronted JB while they were still in Chicago. Remember, she wined and dined them for a while leading up to the cancelled interview. If FJ finds the Duggars as creepy as hell (pre scandal), then Oprah most definitely would have.

Anyway, the ball was dropped all around, and there's enough blame to go around. I just wish this scandal would have broke when the abuse first started and every single child removed from JB and Michelle custody.

Cancelling (or not broadcasting) the episode just to be on the safe side was a prudent thing to do. She did not have to believe there was substance to the rumor to scratch the Duggars from the lineup. Shows are taped but not run for various reasons all the time. If Oprah thought there was even a slight chance the email was true, she did the right thing in not featuring them just in case something did come out later.

However, accusing someone of sexual molestation and cover up of sexual molestation based upon one email is entirely another matter. If the email was not based in fact, Jim Bob, Michele and Josh could have easily sued Oprah and her organization for slander and libel and damages could have included loss of reputation resulting in loss of a reality show. We can Monday morning quarterback all we like, but Oprah could not go there. Notifying the authorities would be as far as her legal counsel would ever advise her to do. It was entirely up to the authorities at that point and they decided no legal case could be made.

[SportsgalAnnie]

my big thing is follow up or offer counseling. I'm not saying she did anything wrong but why didn't she a trained journalist look deeper.

[ShepherdontheRock]

my big thing is follow up or offer counseling. I'm not saying she did anything wrong but why didn't she a trained journalist look deeper.

Because even if she did, they'd have turned it down in favor of Jesus/Gothard counseling.

[Laurene]

I am a bit ashamed to admit that but, am i the only one who is a bit sad/dissapointed that the show is cancelled ? I mean i know it is the best that could happen to the kids, but i will miss snarking on the duggars, and i want to know what this family will become ..

I know i am being selfish, but am i really the only who feels that way ?

[VelociRapture]

I am a bit ashamed to admit that but, am i the only one who is a bit sad/dissapointed that the show is cancelled ? I mean i know it is the best that could happen to the kids, but i will miss snarking on the duggars, and i want to know what this family will become ..

I know i am being selfish, but am i really the only who feels that way ?

Possibly.

But don't worry. There are plenty of snark-worthy opportunities to be had thanks to social media!

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Possibly.

But don't worry. There are plenty of snark-worthy opportunities to be had thanks to social media!

Ha! Glass half full - I like it! :dance:

[VelociRapture]

my big thing is follow up or offer counseling. I'm not saying she did anything wrong but why didn't she a trained journalist look deeper.

It wasn't her job to investigate further or to offer counseling - that responsibility lay with the departments that conducted the official investigations. Oprah had no way of knowing whether or not the allegations were true at that point in time. Had she probed further or inserted herself in the middle of everything, she could have opened herself up to legal action from the Duggar family. . . not to mention, as others have pointed out, she could have caused more harm to the victims by doing so.

And, as ShepherdontheRock pointed out, the Duggars were highly unlikely to accept any offer of counseling from Oprah - because it would have removed their children from the Umbrella of Protection that Gothard loves to preach about.

The most that Oprah and Harpo could do is exactly what they did: report the accusations to police, cancel the episode, and keep their mouths shut (out of respect to the victims) once the scandal hit the media years later.

Ha! Glass half full - I like it! :dance:

I'm not usually so optimistic - but Benessa have reverted to preaching on Instagram and that makes me lulz so hard it hurts. :lol:

[JenniferJuniper]

Possibly.

But don't worry. There are plenty of snark-worthy opportunities to be had thanks to social media!

I'm glad they can't spread their bullshit on a fake-ass TV show anymore.

I'm glad the kids are no longer going to be involuntarily filmed with no compensation.

I'm really, really glad their toxic, hateful positions regarding the LGBT community have been juxtaposed against their stunning hypocrisy.

I'm glad FRC screwed up badly by hiring a child molester.

It's all good. And from a snark perspective, I agree. Things are only going to get more interesting.

[SassyPants]

I'm glad they can't spread their bullshit on a fake-ass TV show anymore.

I'm glad the kids are no longer going to be involuntarily filmed with no compensation.

I'm really, really glad their toxic, hateful positions regarding the LGBT community have been juxtaposed against their stunning hypocrisy.

I'm glad FRC screwed up badly by hiring a child molester.

It's all good. And from a snark perspective, I agree. Things are only going to get more interesting.

And ultimately, this will be a healthier and more realistic life for the kids. JB is 50 and will be gradually slowing down- he already is probably older than his age d/t his lack of health and nutrition awareness, and give a crap. Eventually, these kids are going to need to provide for themselves. TLC was a once in a lifetime money grab. Better that most of them learn to live in reality before they have bajillion other mouths to feed, and are truly sunk.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

I'm quite glad that the show was cancelled. As long as the show went on JB kept all of the power because I believe he kept all of the money and doled it out as he saw fit. With less money will come less power over his kids. Ben and Jessa will have to find their own way in life instead of living in JB's house and being at JB's beck and call. The Dillards have already gone their own way. I hope and believe that as each of the children reach a certain age and will either be forced out of the nest or choose to go. That means there will be a chance that a few will break free of JB's form of Patriarchy altogether.

[Toothfairy]

If someone calls in a child abuse or neglect case that person doesn't know the outcome of that case. You won't know if cps did an investigation or the details of the case. All you do is call in and cps handles it from there. Oprah couldn't do anything but report it to the proper authorities. She did everything right, what else was she supposed to do? She nor her team knew if these allegations were true or false. Harpo nor Oprah are cps. She couldn't just take matters into her own hands.

[calimojo]

I'm quite glad that the show was cancelled. As long as the show went on JB kept all of the power because I believe he kept all of the money and doled it out as he saw fit. With less money will come less power over his kids. Ben and Jessa will have to find their own way in life instead of living in JB's house and being at JB's beck and call. The Dillards have already gone their own way. I hope and believe that as each of the children reach a certain age and will either be forced out of the nest or choose to go. That means there will be a chance that a few will break free of JB's form of Patriarchy altogether.

I really wish that Ben would live up to his headship responsibilities and get Jessa the hell away from Duggarville.

I honestly think, if he and Jessa would move to a slightly larger city, live in a neighborhood with some amount of diversity, and at least one of them would get a real job, they might actually have a shot at growing up and maturing out of their nasty phase they are in now.

Someone, has convinced poor Ben that he has a future as some sort of internet minister. This is obviously terribly misguided as he really lacks charisma on screen. In person, he may be more confident and sound intelligent, but he loses it when he is on screen.

I feel like a true friend or loving family member of his, should sit him down and give him a kind but very honest dose of reality. Maybe being a minister is in Ben's future, but he needs to live life a bit. He needs to have challenges, and question his faith. I think the best ministers are those who had to struggle through their faith first, question it, study it, etc. At 19, Ben doesn't have the maturity to really understand the world.

Jessa just spouts what she knows. She strikes me as stubbornly sticking to what she knows, even though in someways she knows that much of it is Bull shit. But she is so darned stubborn and spiteful she can't break free.

If she were removed from D-ville, and eventually got to know others, I honestly think in her own time, she would let go of her rigid adherence to what she was taught. But she won't be forced to do it. She won't respond to people calling her out, as it will just make her dig in deeper.

She needs space and she needs time. And she needs to experience life and hardships (normal hardships that we all go through when starting out) so she can begin to learn new ways of doing and thinking.

I truly hope that some of the kids are beginning to see the emperor has no clothes. I mean this in several ways. First, the emperor is "gothardism" next it is Patriarch, next it is attitudes about education, and finally it is Ma and Pa Dug-idiot.

I worry for Jinger, for some reason she seems fragile to me. Jana, I can't figure out. She is beautiful but seems bland. I can't figure out if that is a put on, so she can fly under the radar and sort of do her own thing, or if the blandness is a defense mechanism, or if it is a sign that her individuality was ground out of her through blanket training, flexible rulers, brainwashing, and unfair amount of parenting responsibilities.

I keep thinking about the music box story and Jana's emotional reaction to it. Putting that into the context of what we now know about the molestation has raised all kinds of questions to me. Why was Jessa acting out at night? was she fighting to stay awake so she wouldn't be fondled? Was Jana feeling guilt in some way ( not implying she is at all guilty in any of that, but that doesn't mean she might not have those feelings),

If JB and M felt that making Jana give away her prized music box was a way to forgive her annoying little sister, just what exactly did they do to those girls when they had to forgive something much worse? Jana's reaction to telling that story seemed so out of proportion to the actual situation, that it just makes me wonder if on a subconscious level, Jana was reacting to something else, but has had the music box story planted in her memory from the JB and M retelling of history, that she now believes it to be true?

That story has never added up to me, and I think there is something more nefarious behind it. Not on Jana's part, but in how the story has been reframed in her memory by her horrible parents

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Obviously Oprah knew there was some substance to to the allegations or she wouldn't have cancelled the interview, and she wouldn't have OWN be part of Discovery Networks. Given the type of person she is, it doesn't make sense that she would just say "oh well, I tried" and let it go. At the very least she should have confronted JB while they were still in Chicago. Remember, she wined and dined them for a while leading up to the cancelled interview. If FJ finds the Duggars as creepy as hell (pre scandal), then Oprah most definitely would have.

Anyway, the ball was dropped all around, and there's enough blame to go around. I just wish this scandal would have broke when the abuse first started and every single child removed from JB and Michelle custody.

She didn't KNOW if the claims were substantiated, but she could have decided to not move forward with it on the grounds that it MIGHT be substantiated. Unless she actually asked the girls and/or Josh flat out (which I highly doubt was the case, since she only turned over the email), she'd have no proof. That doesn't mean she'd be comfortable filming a family that MIGHT be covering up a sexual abuse case, especially considering she was a victim herself.

[SassyPants]

As an abuse survivor herself, maybe this was a trigger and OW felt she needed to keep her distance once she passed the information along.

[JenniferJuniper]

As an abuse survivor herself, maybe this was a trigger and OW felt she needed to keep her distance once she passed the information along.

I don't think her personal feelings played any role in her keeping her distance.

Had the authorities arrested then adult Josh she may well have taken an interest in the girls' situation, especially as she apparently had met them. But when the authorities took no action (we now know it was because the criminal statute of limitations had already run) there was nothing further she could do. If she decided to out Josh as a child molester without a shred of evidence beyond a random email, she could have faced legal action from the Duggars. She took appropriate action; anything beyond that action would have been completely out of bounds.

[fundie_grandchild]

I really wish that Ben would live up to his headship responsibilities and get Jessa the hell away from Duggarville.

I honestly think, if he and Jessa would move to a slightly larger city, live in a neighborhood with some amount of diversity, and at least one of them would get a real job, they might actually have a shot at growing up and maturing out of their nasty phase they are in now.

Someone, has convinced poor Ben that he has a future as some sort of internet minister. This is obviously terribly misguided as he really lacks charisma on screen. In person, he may be more confident and sound intelligent, but he loses it when he is on screen.

I feel like a true friend or loving family member of his, should sit him down and give him a kind but very honest dose of reality. Maybe being a minister is in Ben's future, but he needs to live life a bit. He needs to have challenges, and question his faith. I think the best ministers are those who had to struggle through their faith first, question it, study it, etc. At 19, Ben doesn't have the maturity to really understand the world.

Jessa just spouts what she knows. She strikes me as stubbornly sticking to what she knows, even though in someways she knows that much of it is Bull shit. But she is so darned stubborn and spiteful she can't break free.

If she were removed from D-ville, and eventually got to know others, I honestly think in her own time, she would let go of her rigid adherence to what she was taught. But she won't be forced to do it. She won't respond to people calling her out, as it will just make her dig in deeper.

She needs space and she needs time. And she needs to experience life and hardships (normal hardships that we all go through when starting out) so she can begin to learn new ways of doing and thinking.

I truly hope that some of the kids are beginning to see the emperor has no clothes. I mean this in several ways. First, the emperor is "gothardism" next it is Patriarch, next it is attitudes about education, and finally it is Ma and Pa Dug-idiot.

I worry for Jinger, for some reason she seems fragile to me. Jana, I can't figure out. She is beautiful but seems bland. I can't figure out if that is a put on, so she can fly under the radar and sort of do her own thing, or if the blandness is a defense mechanism, or if it is a sign that her individuality was ground out of her through blanket training, flexible rulers, brainwashing, and unfair amount of parenting responsibilities.

I keep thinking about the music box story and Jana's emotional reaction to it. Putting that into the context of what we now know about the molestation has raised all kinds of questions to me. Why was Jessa acting out at night? was she fighting to stay awake so she wouldn't be fondled? Was Jana feeling guilt in some way ( not implying she is at all guilty in any of that, but that doesn't mean she might not have those feelings),

If JB and M felt that making Jana give away her prized music box was a way to forgive her annoying little sister, just what exactly did they do to those girls when they had to forgive something much worse? Jana's reaction to telling that story seemed so out of proportion to the actual situation, that it just makes me wonder if on a subconscious level, Jana was reacting to something else, but has had the music box story planted in her memory from the JB and M retelling of history, that she now believes it to be true?

That story has never added up to me, and I think there is something more nefarious behind it. Not on Jana's part, but in how the story has been reframed in her memory by her horrible parents

That music box story is the story of Jana's life. She does not count. She has never counted. She exists a)only to look cute (as a child) and pretty (as a woman) to enhance Jim Bob/Michelle''s image as parents, and b) be a sister-mother to her siblings to make Jim Bob and Michelle's lives easier. Apart from that she is invisible. She has no wants or needs. This was achieved by punishing her for having wants or needs. This is what blanket training is. Giving away a prized possession to the person who is tormenting you is a punishment for wanting the torment to stop (and asking your parents for help). Jana has been punished so often for having basic human needs that she is totally crushed IMO, and this is something you never totally get over.

I know we are not supposed to speculate, and this is not my intent. However, I have long thought that Jana was included in Josh's touching but he knew that she would never ever say anything because he knew she was totally crushed and was therefore the safest person to pick on. Children who are invisible to their parents are preferred by molesters for exactly this reason. I can't imagine why Josh would exclude the most pliable and invisible daughter in his sexual exploration and go for the "tattle tale" sister instead. I can however, understand hypothetically why he would feel totally secure about not admitting to touching Jana (and I am not saying he did touch her... just that I find it surprising that he did not). Jana would never tell anything remotely negative about Josh, who has always been older, bigger and preferred over her. IMO she believed she would be punished by being made to give Josh her second most cherished possession (her first having been already given to Jessa). Her fear of punishment for having needs made her 100% compliant and safe for anyone to bully her with impunity. Why did Jessa choose to torment older sister Jana and not Jinger or Joy?

[2manyKidzzz]

I felt very uncomfortable/sad watching the episode where Jana made that "reveal"at whatever holy meeting it was that she had to give her music box to Jessa. I could see no rhyme or reason. Itt was creepy. Orchestrated by the crazee parents.

[fundie_grandchild]

I felt very uncomfortable/sad watching the episode where Jana made that "reveal"at whatever holy meeting it was that she had to give her music box to Jessa. I could see no rhyme or reason. Itt was creepy. Orchestrated by the crazee parents.

That was the episode that prompted me to google "duggar and abuse" and I found the FJ website. At the time I was really shaken how parents could victimize a child (Jana) who was being bullied by a sibling (Jessa) and turn that into an example of good parenting.

I was raised in a fundamentalist lifestyle but I had never experienced this kind of deliberate cruelty. Lots of stuff was mean and cruel, but it was the result of ignorance (mother) or arrogance (father). If my siblings and I argued we were all punished for arguing. What J'chelle did to Jana struck me as deliberately mean. Punish the victim AND make her give her prized possession to the bully???!!!! That is not something that I would even admit to doing in private, let alone say it with pride on TV as J'chelle did.

I also found it surprising that TLC let that go to air because I'm sure that whole episode (and how distressed Jana was years after the event) disturbed a lot of viewers. I think this was part of the TLC freak show element. I'm less sure about whether they actually intended to do some good, but in my case it was hugely beneficial. It got me to FJ. After lurking for a few years on FJ, and watching the dynamics of the Duggar family, I was able to process how toxic fundamentalism is (in general and for me personally). Before that I had always been told I was "too sensitive" (and punished for this character flaw) and I had internalized this.

The tragedy is that the Duggars were abusing their kids on TV for 10 years and nobody recognized it. The irony is that the Duggars were celebrating abusing their kids on TV for 10 years and this hubris was their downfall. Ironically TLC and their freak show mentality could be the salvation of the younger kids. If it were not for TLC and Joshgate Jim Bob and Michelle would have abused their younger children for another 15 years. Now everyone is on to them so frumpers and "Nike" aren't needed as part of their brand. I hope the same will occur with courtships and side hugs.

[DeFrauder]

I have been thinking about this entire thing rather objectively. So it's supposed to be a "reality" show that follows the family in their everyday pursuit of life. It's supposed to be the everyday quirkiness, ups and downs that make the show what it is and make it entertaining. Given that generic (but false) premise, this scandal could and should have been a huge arch in the story line. Provided editing didn't exist, we could have seen the true reactions and affect this news coming out had on the family. But the truth is, like all "reality" shows, it's a scripted and perverted image of a family they way they want to be seen. I'm not suggesting that their privacy should have actually been invaded or anything, I'm just thinking abstractly about the concept of "reality" shows vs what they really are...

Yes, but that would have been a very distasteful show. It would have been extremely exploitative of the kids.

There was a reality show in the 70s that was fairly true to life (at least I think so). It was called "Family". Its sooo long ago but I remember this one episode where the Dad bought the mother a dress. She was really mad and threw a bit of a tantrum because the dress was in a size large and she was offended that he thought that was her size. They really laid all their uglyness bare. Much different than Michelle's fake appreciation for the cluster ring.

[DeFrauder]

With how long it took them to cancel the Duggars, with the kind of PR they're still doing to try to save the Duggar's image, etc, they've known for a LONG time. They didn't just discover this, or they would have reacted the same as they did with Honey Boo Boo, maybe even more violently. They wouldn't have offered the Duggar's a PR team (that the Duggars rejected for Huckabee's team), they would have pulled the reruns immediately (especially the early ones), they wouldn't have suddenly done a Duggar marathon, they wouldn't be considering a spin off, they wouldn't be doing a special involving the Duggar girls, etc. They're knee deep in this shit and still hoping for a Hail Mary pass that'll allow them to go back to making a shit ton of money off this family.

I don't know. Honey Booboo was really cut and dry. I don't think anyone would have defended the idea of Mama June getting back together with the man that sexually abused her daughter. Not a single person was justifying letting this man near Honey Booboo. The only controversy was whether the story was true or not. There was no question that the show had to be cancelled.

But the Duggars were/are so controversial. They have thousands of leghumping supporters that are not quite convinced that Josh did anything wrong or caused any harm. That is so scary and upsetting. If TLC is as evil as many people fear--that would indeed be a reason for them to stall cancelling. Its not ethical, but like you say, it might be the reason why.

Or there might have been a third thing that happened. Maybe it was easy to unload the Honey Boo Boo contract, but not so easy to unload the Duggar contract. Maybe it took TLC legal talent a longer period of time to establish grounds to get out of the Duggar contract than it did to get out of the Honey Boo Boo contract. Maybe the Fox interviews did the trick. They revealed how totally fucked up everything was.

There are some weird discrepancies between the two shows. From what I understand, JB was getting a lump sum per show paid to him or to whatever holding company he had created. The Honey Boo Boo kids were being paid individually, or so I have been led to believe. The contracts seem very different and it stands to reason that one was easier to cancel than the other.

[DeFrauder]

[

And if the Pastor who has come forward after the scandal was exposed is to be believed, the head of the FRC knew about "the rumors" before they hired Josh.

Link was posted to this group in May.

Wait--what Pastor are we talking about?? I don't recall any Pastor coming forward to say FRC was aware of Josh's "activities".

[Mama Mia]

Yes, but that would have been a very distasteful show. It would have been extremely exploitative of the kids.

There was a reality show in the 70s that was fairly true to life (at least I think so). It was called "Family". Its sooo long ago but I remember this one episode where the Dad bought the mother a dress. She was really mad and threw a bit of a tantrum because the dress was in a size large and she was offended that he thought that was her size. They really laid all their uglyness bare. Much different than Michelle's fake appreciation for the cluster ring.

That's because " Family" wasn't a reality show, it was a regular scripted series :lol:

I know it's completely unpopular but I think they should have continued some version of the show. Primarily because I think canceling it makes it look like being molested is a fate worse than death. I also think all the negative reaction towards Jill and Jessa is more likely to make victims not want to come forward. The primary reaction to them has been that they shouldn't be " acting" like they can possibly be healthy and well- adjusted if they have been molested, and now that their secret is out they shouldn't be on camera, and I think that's a horrible message to give out. The show going on after the scandal - but the family needing to deal with the impact, including the hypocrisy the parents have put out there , would have been better, in my opinion.

[DeFrauder]

That's because " Family" wasn't a reality show, it was a regular scripted series :lol:

I know it's completely unpopular but I think they should have continued some version of the show. Primarily because I think canceling it makes it look like being molested is a fate worse than death. I also think all the negative reaction towards Jill and Jessa is more likely to make victims not want to come forward. The primary reaction to them has been that they shouldn't be " acting" like they can possibly be healthy and well- adjusted if they have been molested, and now that their secret is out they shouldn't be on camera, and I think that's a horrible message to give out. The show going on after the scandal - but the family needing to deal with the impact, including the hypocrisy the parents have put out there , would have been better, in my opinion.

LOL really? And here I thought Family was ahead of its time :lol:

Wait--not the show with Kristy McNichol! There was another show--it was a reality show. Im looking for it.

ok found it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_American_Family

I had the name slightly wrong.

And you are right. JB had a point that it wasn't fair to punish the whole family for the actions of one member. Although, is cancelling the show really a punishment? I know they didn't want it cancelled, but TLC and the Duggars need to evaluate what they are promoting.

and no, being molested is not a fate worse than death. It does effect some people worse than others. There are people that are unable to overcome it. There are many that do overcome.

The girls are clearly unaware of the gravity of the situation. I both understand the anger toward them, and also feel bad that they seem to be in denial. I don't think that people would be angry if they were not insisting the abuse was nothing.

It is too soon. I do not want to see a show where the girls continue to deny that anything bad happened. No, I forgave my brother because what he did was nothing. I want to see a show where they can discuss true healing and forgiveness.

[SassyPants]

Wait--what Pastor are we talking about?? I don't recall any Pastor coming forward to say FRC was aware of Josh's "activities".

It was a video link from a Christian Pastor who has a radio show in the DC area. The audio was posted to FJ when the scandal was revealed. This Pastor notified the FRC about the scandal before Josh was hired.

[Trynn]

That's because " Family" wasn't a reality show, it was a regular scripted series :lol:

I know it's completely unpopular but I think they should have continued some version of the show. Primarily because I think canceling it makes it look like being molested is a fate worse than death. I also think all the negative reaction towards Jill and Jessa is more likely to make victims not want to come forward. The primary reaction to them has been that they shouldn't be " acting" like they can possibly be healthy and well- adjusted if they have been molested, and now that their secret is out they shouldn't be on camera, and I think that's a horrible message to give out. The show going on after the scandal - but the family needing to deal with the impact, including the hypocrisy the parents have put out there , would have been better, in my opinion.

Better for who though? I mean I get what you are saying, but now that the secret is out, everyone would think only of the molestation whenever the girls were on camera. If they had no privacy before, they really have none now.

I think it is ultimately better for them to be out of the spotlight, even though they may not see it right now.