Proof the Duggars Spank with a Rod

[gustava]

As for well behaved children I googled big sandy 2015 ATI and another family who camped near the duggars flat out called Josie a wild animal. They even had pictures of Josie hanging off of their gator they just bought for $6000 from an ATI affiliated sales company. I don't think their kids are anymore well behaved than any other kid on this planet I just think most of the older ones had it beat out of them. I mean hell the kids were scared of jessa when she was home schooling them. Wasn't it Jackson who hid from her so he didn't have to do math with her?

5kids6months.blogspot.com/2014/04/fun-and-fellowship-in-big-sandy-texas.html?m=1

This couple is extraordinary.

[Arrowoftruth]

As for well behaved children I googled big sandy 2015 ATI and another family who camped near the duggars flat out called Josie a wild animal. They even had pictures of Josie hanging off of their gator they just bought for $6000 from an ATI affiliated sales company. I don't think their kids are anymore well behaved than any other kid on this planet I just think most of the older ones had it beat out of them. I mean hell the kids were scared of jessa when she was home schooling them. Wasn't it Jackson who hid from her so he didn't have to do math with her?

5kids6months.blogspot.com/2014/04/fun-and-fellowship-in-big-sandy-texas.html?m=1

I don't see the part about Josie

[j-rin]

I don't see the part about Josie

2013 post it did the wrong year let me grab it.

5kids6months.blogspot.com/2013/04/a-week-in-big-sandy-tx-with-duggars.html?m=1

[Cleopatra7]

Only reading about this subject is painful for me.

I am not a mum but I am an aunt of two wonderful little kids.

I could never ever, ever even imagine hitting a child with a rod, with a spoon or with anything really.

About corporal punishment in the Duggar household, nobody can really say to what extent that was/is in use. Anyways I have the feeling hard discipline is still used.

I was struck by an episode but have never seen it mentioned on FJ.

There was an episode where the little kids where preparing to celebrate something, maybe their own parents' anniversary, can't really remember.

Jill had a few young kids around a table painting plates I think, then someone else came around with another activity and Josie said "I am gonna go help them", and while saying so she stepped down her chair and started walking away.

Jill immediately said a very harsh "NO", upon which Josie immediately - IMMEDIATELY - turned around and stepped up again on the chair.

And then Jill continued with a mild voice "it's nice of you but you can't do that, now you get to do this".

Now, I understand the need to teach a child to finish a task, but what struck me was the harsh tone Jill used and the immediate reaction of Josie. Not that I expected her to whine or complain or insist naughtily, but she did not even had a reaction at all...not even a "why?", or "may I later?" or whatever...she turned on herself and went back to the chair. Like a robot, really.

That struck me as not normal and made me think there must be something that was done to discipline her that made her react like it to that "No".

A little thing, maybe, but I noticed it.

I wish I could remember the episode to find it and share it with you.

Unlike a lot of FJers, I don't believe that Josie is really treated that much differently than the other kids. She may have been trotted out as the "miracle baby" for pro-life functions, but I seriously doubt that JB and Michelle know anything about her as a person, like what her favorite color is or her favorite food (that's what sister moms are for). I think that the Duggars still punish the kids with a rod, although that too has probably been outsourced to Joy and Jinger at this point. If that story on Gawker about the public humiliation of the J'boy caught masturbating is true, then that confirms my belief that the crew did not act as a moderating force in the TTH. That is, the Duggars just did what they usually did and assuming that the unflattering bits would end up on the cutting room floor.

I think that the out of control behavior that we see in the little girls and formerly in the older howlers can be explained by the fact that JB and Michelle seem to focus on getting kids to obey them without question without explaining why it's important to behave or do the right thing. Therefore, when the kids can get away with misbehaving, they do it, because they have no concept of being good without the threat of punishment to motivate them. In public places like restaurants or Big Sandy, JB and Michelle probably think that it's everyone else's responsibility to look after their kids, and just ignore what's going on around them.

[Buzzard]

I can't remember which kid it was, but for some reason I think it was Mac. She was terrified about throwing flowers at a wedding. All I could think was how poor that child was, afraid to make a mess... Probably because they'd beat her

[chelleinchicago]

I can't remember which kid it was, but for some reason I think it was Mac. She was terrified about throwing flowers at a wedding. All I could think was how poor that child was, afraid to make a mess... Probably because they'd beat her

I'm surprised they didn't throw that "Instantly Obey!" shit at her. They should have implemented that when Josh was making mistakes.

[GiggleOfGirls]

The biggest effect frequent (and "Godly") spanking had on my life is that I didn't trust my parents not to hurt me so I did not come to them when I was older and hurting for reasons unrelated to them. I figured that they would blame me and I would get in trouble and they'd just end up hurting me worse.

Once that trust is broken, it can affect things a great deal. Perhaps enough that girls wouldn't feel comfortable enough to come to their parents about "inappropriate touching" -- particularly in a cult where the girls are generally blamed for the boys' "inappropriate" actions.

[Vivi_music]

I too am glad to see a sub-topic of DuggarGate get its own thread.

I assumed that "rod" was a general term. Like "car" can mean anything from a teeny Smart Car to a turbo-charged Ferrari.

These people stick by their terminology. Like "train up", "countenance", "heart", etc.

I was always bothered by the fact the Duggars used the word ''train'' to talk about their children. I've even heard the Duggarlings themselves say things like ''Our parents trained us well''. I used to scream at the TV. You don't train children, you raise them. Children are meant to grow up into independent adults, that can contribute to society. They are not things you can train to obey you. You train your dog or your pet.

Gosh. Now it all makes sense. :?

[LilahBelle]

The biggest effect frequent (and "Godly") spanking had on my life is that I didn't trust my parents not to hurt me so I did not come to them when I was older and hurting for reasons unrelated to them. I figured that they would blame me and I would get in trouble and they'd just end up hurting me worse.

Once that trust is broken, it can affect things a great deal. Perhaps enough that girls wouldn't feel comfortable enough to come to their parents about "inappropriate touching" -- particularly in a cult where the girls are generally blamed for the boys' "inappropriate" actions.

Yes, children learn pretty quickly what they can and cannot tell their parents, and will lean toward not going to them when in doubt.

This might be the reason these girls were all "asleep" when Josh came in.

As for the younger kids and their obedience, I wonder if some of their big buddy's discipline was done out of suppressed anger (speculating here of course), but I think you get a lot of that in large families; the older ones take out their anger and frustrations on the younger ones. The anger has to come out somehow.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

2013 post it did the wrong year let me grab it.

5kids6months.blogspot.com/2013/04/a-week-in-big-sandy-tx-with-duggars.html?m=1

Notice is Josie and Jen Duggar standing on the seats of another families vehicle and the only children treating it like a jungle gym.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

I can't remember which kid it was, but for some reason I think it was Mac. She was terrified about throwing flowers at a wedding. All I could think was how poor that child was, afraid to make a mess... Probably because they'd beat her

It Mac and Anna explained in the talking head that Mac was worried because she knew wasn't supposed to throw trash on the floor and make a mess.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

I was always bothered by the fact the Duggars used the word ''train'' to talk about their children. I've even heard the Duggarlings themselves say things like ''Our parents trained us well''. I used to scream at the TV. You don't train children, you raise them. Children are meant to grow up into independent adults, that can contribute to society. They are not things you can train to obey you. You train your dog or your pet.

Gosh. Now it all makes sense. :?

I hate the entire TRAIN thing with them. Jim Bob even said in this recent interview with Megyn Kelly. "We though that maybe we didn't TRAIN him enough or right"

How about you made a mistake in your parenting and need to learn new skills? Ugh.

[Arrowoftruth]

Notice is Josie and Jen Duggar standing on the seats of another families vehicle and the only children treating it like a jungle gym.

The picture that said blanket time just has me queasy.

[j-rin]

The picture that said blanket time just has me queasy.

Yes it does and other pictures I saw on other blogs and so forth had tons of kids 3 and under laying on blankets at the convention and other group meetings. I don't know if each parent is as rough with the obey me or get beat rule. I know my kids were on blankets til they could crawl.. then they dragged the blanket with them.. no I didn't blanket train my kids but these pictures are worrisome..

[Glitch]

I have gone down the rabbit hole on the 5kids6months.blogspot.com website. It is fascinating to watch this couple go from seemingly normal to fully indoctrinated within ATI. Even the way the mom writes is interesting; increasingly incorporating Duggar-speak like "fellowshipping," "encouraging," and the ever-popular "laid it on our hearts." Plus, the whole post on modesty shopping at thrift stores. And the debt-free talk... it all sounds so familiar... and scary...

This couple is doing a Christian service in adopting children, but their enthusiasm for ATI is concerning. I agree that the blanket time comment was a red flag.

Anyone know this family or anyone like them, who are becoming more involved in ATI during this time? So interesting. Seeing her photos of her kiddos with the Duggars makes me think she looks at them like they are rock stars.

[j-rin]

I have gone down the rabbit hole on the 5kids6months.blogspot.com website. It is fascinating to watch this couple go from seemingly normal to fully indoctrinated within ATI. Even the way the mom writes is interesting; increasingly incorporating Duggar-speak like "fellowshipping," "encouraging," and the ever-popular "laid it on our hearts." Plus, the whole post on modesty shopping at thrift stores. And the debt-free talk... it all sounds so familiar... and scary...

This couple is doing a Christian service in adopting children, but their enthusiasm for ATI is concerning. I agree that the blanket time comment was a red flag.

Anyone know this family or anyone like them, who are becoming more involved in ATI during this time? So interesting. Seeing her photos of her kiddos with the Duggars makes me think she looks at them like they are rock stars.

I just found them on the Google rabbit hole.. it's pretty much how I find people who live this lifestyle. I've been doing it for years. I haven't found anyone else that is so new.

[Full enough quiver]

Growing up, we had a ping pong paddle with holes drilled in it hanging on the kitchen wall. If we did something bad, we would get paddled. This went for all ages, from around 1 year, all the way to 18 (14 for me. That's when I got kicked out). Older children were expected to paddle younger ones if an infraction happened while they were in charge, and I can say for sure that older siblings would take out frustrations on younger ones, at least in my family. This seemed true in other families we knew as well. I was very impatient, and spanked my youngest brother frequently, a fact that I'm extremely ashamed of. I have apologized to my brother, and he has forgiven me, but I believe that encouraging older siblings to physically abuse younger ones is one of the most f'ed up things about these types of families.

[MatthewDuggar]

I'm sorry if this was posted upthread, if so I missed it. This site has a section dedicated to how exceptionally wild and misbehaving the Duggar kids can be:

wtffundiefamilies.tumblr.com/tagged/'well%20behaved%20children'%20my%20ass

note: I think much of this is typical kids stuff, but overall it shows how out of control and rude they can be. Warning, there is some pretty heavy kid-criticizing here.

[smittykins]

A few weeks ago, I Googled "blanket training" and found several families who claim to have done it without hitting(not saying it's right, or that I believe them). One mother even made up a song: "Blanket time, blanket time, it's our favorite time of day; blanket time, blanket time, on the blanket we must stay." :(

[Sscape]

On the WTF fundie families site I didn't think it was all so bad. Even families with fewer kids have messes. I don't see how it's possible to have a really clean house with all those children. The main idea is that they are pretending to be a much more organized and quiet family than they are. My ADHD kids ran riot, too. You just need to know their limits and not push them beyond that. The Duggars push the envelope on their kids ability to sit still and behave. Also- as they keep having children the kids are more likely to have ADHD and other problems processing sensory input. This is yet another reason not to breed yourself to death. I keep thinking that Michelle is going to die from these late pregnancies. It's not unthinkable. It would be a horrible horrible object lesson for the rest of the Quiverfuls.

[Rajah061014]

On the WTF fundie families site I didn't think it was all so bad. Even families with fewer kids have messes. I don't see how it's possible to have a really clean house with all those children. The main idea is that they are pretending to be a much more organized and quiet family than they are. My ADHD kids ran riot, too. You just need to know their limits and not push them beyond that. The Duggars push the envelope on their kids ability to sit still and behave. Also- as they keep having children the kids are more likely to have ADHD and other problems processing sensory input. This is yet another reason not to breed yourself to death. I keep thinking that Michelle is going to die from these late pregnancies. It's not unthinkable. It would be a horrible horrible object lesson for the rest of the Quiverfuls.

Re: the bolded.

Honestly, I don't think that anyone in the Quiverful movement would interpret Michelle (or any Quiverful mother) dying in pregnancy/labor/childbirth as a lesson not to have as many kids. I would not be surprised if they saw it as some sort of ultimate sacrifice, and make the mother a martyr for their cause. After all, a woman's only duty and purpose in life is to have kids- what better way to show their dedication to their role than to die for it?

Ugg. I feel really morbid and depressed now.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

Re: the bolded.

Honestly, I don't think that anyone in the Quiverful movement would interpret Michelle (or any Quiverful mother) dying in pregnancy/labor/childbirth as a lesson not to have as many kids. I would not be surprised if they saw it as some sort of ultimate sacrifice, and make the mother a martyr for their cause. After all, a woman's only duty and purpose in life is to have kids- what better way to show their dedication to their role than to die for it?

Ugg. I feel really morbid and depressed now.

I just keep holding on to Michelle outliving Jim Bob because she will probably not get pregnant again but if she were to die Jim Bob would quickly remarry a younger woman and start breeding all over again.

[Rachel333]

Re: the bolded.

Honestly, I don't think that anyone in the Quiverful movement would interpret Michelle (or any Quiverful mother) dying in pregnancy/labor/childbirth as a lesson not to have as many kids. I would not be surprised if they saw it as some sort of ultimate sacrifice, and make the mother a martyr for their cause. After all, a woman's only duty and purpose in life is to have kids- what better way to show their dedication to their role than to die for it?

Ugg. I feel really morbid and depressed now.

I remember one Bible study I went to in high school where we talked about abortion. It was almost like the girls in the group were competing to show each other how much they hate abortion and several girls talked about how if there was a situation where they had to choose between abortion and the life of the mother, they would choose to die for their baby. They talked about it like it was an extra-special way to die, almost like martyrdom. These weren't even really fundie girls, more fundie-lite at most. I was still anti-abortion back then but that meeting really disturbed me.

Anyway, I agree with you that no quiverfuller would see a mother's death as a warning against having a lot of kids. I think a mother who died would be treated like a martyr, not an object lesson.

(It can also happen to anyone, not just women with many pregnancies. I know a lot of women who have had many, many kids, but the only woman I've known who died in childbirth was a healthy 23-year-old after a healthy and uneventful pregnancy with her first baby. )

[GiggleOfGirls]

I just keep holding on to Michelle outliving Jim Bob because she will probably not get pregnant again but if she were to die Jim Bob would quickly remarry a younger woman and start breeding all over again.

OMG, that's a depressing thought. JB continuing to breed with another woman.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

OMG, that's a depressing thought. JB continuing to breed with another woman.

Gothardites goal is to actually outbreed the heathens and unsaved masses so he would have to remarry and start again.

It is positively nightmare inducing to think of.

So no matter what we must hope Michelle dies last.