Proof the Duggars Spank with a Rod

[Eleemosynary]

I'm guessing the younger kids don't get it unless mom or dad happen to catch them. I doubt the sister-moms use the rod on them. They care about those kids a lot more than their parents do.

I am not so sure about that. I could definitely see Jessa using the rod. Recent events have made it obvious that there is a lot more that has happened in the TTH than previously suspected.

[apandaaries]

I am not so sure about that. I could definitely see Jessa using the rod. Recent events have made it obvious that there is a lot more that has happened in the TTH than previously suspected.

I think I recall a schooling scene where someone (Jessa?) threatens to get Jana if the J'Howler continues to refuse to listen. I remember my double-take, because Jana normally seems quite quiet and calm, but issuing that threat got the Howler in line.

The cameras helped spare a lot of the kids, I'm sure, but I also agree with JenniferJuniper. Parents change, and what was forbidden for the firstborn will become commonplace for the last baby. And the reverse is also true: those who were once strict disciplinarians often go much easier on the littlest ones.

I'm also glad we have a separate thread for this. The child abuse which is so prevalent in their cult should absolutely be exposed. In a weird way, I'm a little glad for the cameras because the younger kids were clearly not beaten as much as the older ones. I'm totally okay with them not getting abused as frequently.

On a related note about their behavior, there's a tumblr out there called wtf fundie families. The guy is excellent with screen grabs. Some of the things are reblogged from elsewhere and a bit offensive, but this page has a fair compilation of moments where these "well-behaved children" are anything but: http://wtffundiefamilies.tumblr.com/tag ... ass/page/5

[DuggarWatch]

Apologies if this has been discussed, but I believe this deserves a new thread - it's not about the sexual abuse, it's not about Josh, it's about that little paragraph in page 29 of the Springdale police report. To paraphrase, the police asked one of the girls if anybody touches her bottom and she mentioned spanking. The interviewer started questioning her, and this girl stated that all the kids were spanked, she responded yes. When asked what they were spanked with, she said a "rod." When asked if the rod left bruises she said "no."

I wish the police had followed up with this angle a little more. In any event, it's proof that they do engage on corporal punishment.

In Arkansas, it is not against the law to beat/spank children with an implement, so long as no bruises are left on the child. This is why the policeman asked about bruises.

I seriously doubt that this child knew if the beatings left bruises are not, because a child is not necessarily looking in a mirror at his/her backside, especially in a house with so little privacy and without a mirror at "butt -level."

The laws for physical discipline of children are different in each state. Here is a synopsis of those laws, starting with Arkansas:

http://kidjacked.com/legal/spanking_law.asp#arkansas

[chelleinchicago]

I think I recall a schooling scene where someone (Jessa?) threatens to get Jana if the J'Howler continues to refuse to listen. I remember my double-take, because Jana normally seems quite quiet and calm, but issuing that threat got the Howler in line.

The cameras helped spare a lot of the kids, I'm sure, but I also agree with JenniferJuniper. Parents change, and what was forbidden for the firstborn will become commonplace for the last baby. And the reverse is also true: those who were once strict disciplinarians often go much easier on the littlest ones.

I'm also glad we have a separate thread for this. The child abuse which is so prevalent in their cult should absolutely be exposed. In a weird way, I'm a little glad for the cameras because the younger kids were clearly not beaten as much as the older ones. I'm totally okay with them not getting abused as frequently.

On a related note about their behavior, there's a tumblr out there called wtf fundie families. The guy is excellent with screen grabs. Some of the things are reblogged from elsewhere and a bit offensive, but this page has a fair compilation of moments where these "well-behaved children" are anything but: http://wtffundiefamilies.tumblr.com/tag ... ass/page/5

You're right about the scene where they threatened to get Jana. It might have been when they were practicing for some performance. Maybe for the parents anniversary... Anyway, it struck me as really odd as well.

[ohplease]

It's not a biblical edict, so please do not associate all Christians with that practice. I'm a devout Christian and would never dream of hitting my child. There's a fantastic book out there called Jesus, the Gentle Parent if you are genuinely interested.

[RosyDaisy]

The episode in question is the one where Joy is trying to get the little ones to behave so they could practice singing. She threatened to get Jana if they they didn't behave. That was a WTF moment for me.

Anyway, now that we have confirmation that the Duggars hit their kids with a rod, and Josh molested his sisters, I can't help but wonder what other horrors are going on.

[chelleinchicago]

The episode in question is the one where Joy is trying to get the little ones to behave so they could practice singing. She threatened to get Jana if they they didn't behave. That was a WTF moment for me.

Anyway, now that we have confirmation that the Duggars hit their kids with a rod, and Josh molested his sisters, I can't help but wonder what other horrors are going on.

Looking through the episode list I'm thinking it was 'Duggar Dinner Theater'.

Wouldn't it be awful if Jana was given the responsibility of physically punishing the little ones? It's bad enough they get hit with a rod, but it feels even more abusive to me to require an older child (even an adult) to do your dirty work. Two abuses in one.

[apandaaries]

Looking through the episode list I'm thinking it was 'Duggar Dinner Theater'.

Wouldn't it be awful if Jana was given the responsibility of physically punishing the little ones? It's bad enough they get hit with a rod, but it feels even more abusive to me to require an older child (even an adult) to do your dirty work. Two abuses in one.

They will never cease to find more ways to work Jana. Michelle claims Jana used to be "spirited." Imagine how many beatings and JTTHs it took to remove that spirit from her.

[JenniferJuniper]

Looking through the episode list I'm thinking it was 'Duggar Dinner Theater'.

Wouldn't it be awful if Jana was given the responsibility of physically punishing the little ones? It's bad enough they get hit with a rod, but it feels even more abusive to me to require an older child (even an adult) to do your dirty work. Two abuses in one.

It would be awful, but in that instance Joy's threat may have had more to do with the fact that Jana is perceived more as an authority figure. Joy is a buddy leader now, but she has never been a sister mom to the little kids and they seemed not to be taking her seriously.

Not that I doubt the sister moms were encouraged not to spare the rod, especially with the unruly howlers.

[The Duggar's Mohel]

Lashing out at someones buttocks, seems a little immodest doesn't it Boob and J'Chelle?

Should they not have just side hugged the buttocks as punishment?

[justoneoftwo]

I don't think its at all surprising the sister moms hit their kids. From what I've read about the culture that is common. Also, if you were a mom and giving your kids to your other kids to raise, why would you keep the worst part for yourself?

[chelleinchicago]

They will never cease to find more ways to work Jana. Michelle claims Jana used to be "spirited." Imagine how many beatings and JTTHs it took to remove that spirit from her.

I can't imagine her ever having been "spirited". I hate to think of what they did to tame her.

[imokit]

Libby Anne (ex fundy) has commented on spanking her younger siblings before.

I'd be surprised if Jana (and at least all of the 6 oldest - including Josh) haven't had the authority to spank the little kids.

patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2011/07/giving-the-child-the-rod.html

Josh once commented when the rest of the older ones were in El Salvador and he and Anna were in charge of the littles about reminding them who was in charge as they weren't used to him being in the house any more :evil: .

They spank, the girls probably (hopefully) less than the parents which would explain the rowdier behaviour of the little ones compared with the older ones in the early specials when they were that age.

[DGayle]

Yeah, I felt its own thread appropriate because this conversation was getting lost in all the other talk, and it's a huge issue - perhaps even bigger than a few gropes of the breast while the victim was sleeping.

I strongly, STRONGLY, disagree that spanking can be a huger issue that fucking CHILD MOLESTATION. At LEAST a spanking is in response to something that's against the household rules, whereas having your breasts and vagina touched against your will is in response do you existing. Without a doubt, those girls were blamed for what Josh did.

Most adults in this world were spanked as kids. The overwhelming majority of us don't live with issues from it. But most molestation victims do live with issues from it, to some extent or another. I was spanked, always because I chose to misbehave. I was molested a single time by a family friend. Guess which has had a lasting negative impact on my life. I'm not alone in how I feel, and I can tell you, it's goddamned offensive that being spanked could be seen as worse than a monster putting his hands on my private parts.

To compound it for those girls, their parents KNEW, and did nothing, about Josh touching them. I don't know which, but 1 of the told on Josh, and JB did nothing. Their trust was violated, and it's made worse since their religious culture puts such an emphasis on "purity" that even touching their own bodies is evil. They were forced to live with being told it's their fault, and being told, in roundabout and maybe direct ways, that they were spoiled goods.

While spanking with some sort of rod is abhorrent, it just doesn't rise to the same level of evil as their parents condoning Josh molesting them by their inaction.

[chelleinchicago]

It would be awful, but in that instance Joy's threat may have had more to do with the fact that Jana is perceived more as an authority figure. Joy is a buddy leader now, but she has never been a sister mom to the little kids and they seemed not to be taking her seriously.

Not that I doubt the sister moms were encouraged not to spare the rod, especially with the unruly howlers.

I was wondering why they would have included it in that episode but I suppose they're proud to have created yet another authority figure who has the ability to put fear into the young ones.

[littlesparklingflame]

Only reading about this subject is painful for me.

I am not a mum but I am an aunt of two wonderful little kids.

I could never ever, ever even imagine hitting a child with a rod, with a spoon or with anything really.

About corporal punishment in the Duggar household, nobody can really say to what extent that was/is in use. Anyways I have the feeling hard discipline is still used.

I was struck by an episode but have never seen it mentioned on FJ.

There was an episode where the little kids where preparing to celebrate something, maybe their own parents' anniversary, can't really remember.

Jill had a few young kids around a table painting plates I think, then someone else came around with another activity and Josie said "I am gonna go help them", and while saying so she stepped down her chair and started walking away.

Jill immediately said a very harsh "NO", upon which Josie immediately - IMMEDIATELY - turned around and stepped up again on the chair.

And then Jill continued with a mild voice "it's nice of you but you can't do that, now you get to do this".

Now, I understand the need to teach a child to finish a task, but what struck me was the harsh tone Jill used and the immediate reaction of Josie. Not that I expected her to whine or complain or insist naughtily, but she did not even had a reaction at all...not even a "why?", or "may I later?" or whatever...she turned on herself and went back to the chair. Like a robot, really.

That struck me as not normal and made me think there must be something that was done to discipline her that made her react like it to that "No".

A little thing, maybe, but I noticed it.

I wish I could remember the episode to find it and share it with you.

Edited to add: thank you for bringing up a thread to discuss this.

I was hit by the reference to the rod spanking in the report.

I was shocked that many on this board would be so attentive to the girls being Josh's victims and forget that all of the kids were actually victims of their parents' abuse (physical and emotional).

Using corporal punishment on kids to train them to obey is horrendous.

It has more to do with power than with parenting.

It should not be considered normal and it does leave extremely deep issues.

I am not interested in establishing whether it is a bigger issue than sexual molestation.

I think both relate to the violation of the individual right to remain untouched, safe, protected and in full disposal of one's own body, mind, soul and will.

Beating a child is an abuse, it has to be acknowledged as such and condemned.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

The leg humpers praise the behavior of much older kids, teens and young adults and say that proves they're all so well-behaved. The actual children in the house run wild. They've even show the crew intervening to keep little ones safe while they are climbing everywhere. I'm not saying they should be beaten or anything like that, just that the leg humpers get the "Duggars are the best behaved children" thing wrong. Sometimes I wonder if we are all watching the same show? :lol:

I know many people who have personally witnessed this family in public and they are not any more well behaved than the typical child.

One friend who witnessed them back in 2005-2006 in a restaurant said that while they did respect the staff and didn't run wild they weren't very good at staying still in their seats and they ate like animals.

So I think they like to perpetrate the idea they are more behaved than heathen children but they really aren't.

And I think the way they run around with no schedule is evident on the show.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

I strongly, STRONGLY, disagree that spanking can be a huger issue that fucking CHILD MOLESTATION. At LEAST a spanking is in response to something that's against the household rules, whereas having your breasts and vagina touched against your will is in response do you existing. Without a doubt, those girls were blamed for what Josh did.

Most adults in this world were spanked as kids. The overwhelming majority of us don't live with issues from it. But most molestation victims do live with issues from it, to some extent or another. I was spanked, always because I chose to misbehave. I was molested a single time by a family friend. Guess which has had a lasting negative impact on my life. I'm not alone in how I feel, and I can tell you, it's goddamned offensive that being spanked could be seen as worse than a monster putting his hands on my private parts.

To compound it for those girls, their parents KNEW, and did nothing, about Josh touching them. I don't know which, but 1 of the told on Josh, and JB did nothing. Their trust was violated, and it's made worse since their religious culture puts such an emphasis on "purity" that even touching their own bodies is evil. They were forced to live with being told it's their fault, and being told, in roundabout and maybe direct ways, that they were spoiled goods.

While spanking with some sort of rod is abhorrent, it just doesn't rise to the same level of evil as their parents condoning Josh molesting them by their inaction.

There is something to be said for the level of trauma inflicted when a child is physically scared of their parents. It can create tremendous psychological problems when you can't trust the very people you are supposed to go to when you are in trouble.

Or when you can't trust your parents to protect you from harm because they are the very ones who often harm you.

This is evident with the molestation and the fact that at least one sibling age 8 plus did not feel comfortable even going to her parents when molested.

There are deep psychological trust issues in that family and it stems not only from Josh but from the physical and emotional abuse.those children suffered before the molestation.

So maybe in your case your molestation was worse but in others emotional or physical abuse outweighed their sexual abuse

People are different.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Libby Anne (ex fundy) has commented on spanking her younger siblings before.

I'd be surprised if Jana (and at least all of the 6 oldest - including Josh) haven't had the authority to spank the little kids.

patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2011/07/giving-the-child-the-rod.html

Josh once commented when the rest of the older ones were in El Salvador and he and Anna were in charge of the littles about reminding them who was in charge as they weren't used to him being in the house any more :evil: .

They spank, the girls probably (hopefully) less than the parents which would explain the rowdier behaviour of the little ones compared with the older ones in the early specials when they were that age.

Nice safeguards Michelle and Jimbob :roll:

And it is totally cruel to make your older child beat their small siblings.

[littlesparklingflame]

There is something to be said for the level of trauma inflicted when a child is physically scared of their parents. It can create tremendous psychological problems when you can't trust the very people you are supposed to go to when you are in trouble.

Or when you can't trust your parents to protect you from harm because they are the very ones who often harm you.

This is evident with the molestation and the fact that at least one sibling age 8 plus did not feel comfortable even going to her parents when molested.

There are deep psychological trust issues in that family and it stems not only from Josh but from the physical and emotional abuse.those children suffered before the molestation.

So maybe in your case your molestation was worse but in others emotional or physical abuse outweighed their sexual abuse

People are different.

You said exactly what I had in my mind but was not able to put into (English) words. Thank you.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

You said exactly what I had in my mind but was not able to put into (English) words. Thank you.

You are welcome.

[j-rin]

As for well behaved children I googled big sandy 2015 ATI and another family who camped near the duggars flat out called Josie a wild animal. They even had pictures of Josie hanging off of their gator they just bought for $6000 from an ATI affiliated sales company. I don't think their kids are anymore well behaved than any other kid on this planet I just think most of the older ones had it beat out of them. I mean hell the kids were scared of jessa when she was home schooling them. Wasn't it Jackson who hid from her so he didn't have to do math with her?

5kids6months.blogspot.com/2014/04/fun-and-fellowship-in-big-sandy-texas.html?m=1

[Talitha Cumi]

I strongly, STRONGLY, disagree that spanking can be a huger issue that fucking CHILD MOLESTATION. At LEAST a spanking is in response to something that's against the household rules, whereas having your breasts and vagina touched against your will is in response do you existing. Without a doubt, those girls were blamed for what Josh did.

Most adults in this world were spanked as kids. The overwhelming majority of us don't live with issues from it. But most molestation victims do live with issues from it, to some extent or another. I was spanked, always because I chose to misbehave. I was molested a single time by a family friend. Guess which has had a lasting negative impact on my life. I'm not alone in how I feel, and I can tell you, it's goddamned offensive that being spanked could be seen as worse than a monster putting his hands on my private parts.

To compound it for those girls, their parents KNEW, and did nothing, about Josh touching them. I don't know which, but 1 of the told on Josh, and JB did nothing. Their trust was violated, and it's made worse since their religious culture puts such an emphasis on "purity" that even touching their own bodies is evil. They were forced to live with being told it's their fault, and being told, in roundabout and maybe direct ways, that they were spoiled goods.

While spanking with some sort of rod is abhorrent, it just doesn't rise to the same level of evil as their parents condoning Josh molesting them by their inaction.

On the other hand, I was molested once (neighbor kid chased me, held me down and touched me with his genitals), and spanked more than once by my parents. The spankings definitely affected me more, to the point where I've been triggered just by having conversations that touch on the subject. So, yeah, I feel comfortable saying that for me, being spanked was worse than being molested. It's going to be different for everyone, depending on the different circumstances.

[LilahBelle]

I too think that the spanking has waned a bit with the younger kids, because when you have 19 kids, you get tired. Most get tired after 2 kids. For the same reason the youngest ones run around dirty and without a schedule are the same reasons they are likely not spanked. I knew a family with a ton of kids. By the time they got around to the fifth or sixth they were not even taken to the doctor for illnesses, just allowed to ride out all sorts of things at home, some of them requiring antibiotics like strep. Can you imagine the cost of a Duggar pediatric visit when 19 kids kids all get strep, and the cost of the antibiotics? That alone might run a thousand bucks total, depending on the insurance.

I've no doubt Josie ran wild at that camp. I only watched one or two episodes and I saw several WTF moments with those kids in danger with nobody noticing except the camera crew. I recall Johanna doing gymnastic flips on some overheard bars on some bus they had.

[Hisey]

I strongly, STRONGLY, disagree that spanking can be a huger issue that fucking CHILD MOLESTATION. At LEAST a spanking is in response to something that's against the household rules, whereas having your breasts and vagina touched against your will is in response do you existing. Without a doubt, those girls were blamed for what Josh did.

.

Not trying to start an argument here, and you are entitled to your opinion, but. . . if you were 10 years old, what would be worse for you? Having your mother lashed at you repeatedly with a piece of plumbing line whenever you disobey, or having your brother "inappropriately touch" your privates?

Because that's what it comes down to. What would be worse for the kids? What would you feel is worse, if it was happening to you?