Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Rumors - Part 2

[Guiltygawker]

Long time lurker...I just have to mention something. I'm

In PR and those statements were way too polished and calculated to have been just a reaction. They knew this was coming and they purposefully left out mention of the victims simply to detract from the real problem. Given that they even chose to address that Anna knew leads me to believe this was well thought out. It is like the way a video montage of older celebs are put together so that they will be ready to go when the person dies, this was ready for when the story broke. And do you really think it is a coincidence that the story broke the minute the season ended? Also I thought it was odd that josh and his family seemed to be in AK quite a bit lately...at Easter, again for that church appearance, agsin for the special, ect. My guess is someone threatened them with the story and they've been preparing for the fallout. The somehow convinced whoever to wait...and now TLC has the summer to see if this will go away. But my guess is it will grow into something bigger than they anticipated it would.

[JillsFlowerHeadband]

That's the other thing that really bugs me : why is the fact that J/M covered up the whole story (AND the spanking bit of the police report) not mentioned or at least emphasized in most articles?

In a way I kind of hope that the show won't be cancelled for another couple of years because the constant cameras sort of provide mild protection. And being in the public eye force the family to behave and act more liberal (like sending kids to college).

Exactly. Josh needs to be held responsible for his wrongdoing, obviously... but at the same time, Boob and J'Uterus were supposed to be the parents in that house and they failed all those kids, including teenage Josh (who obviously had something wrong that only professional help by licensed personnel could manage or correct)!! That should be highlighted for sure.

As much as I'd like to think that Jana's repeated Journey to the Heart trips were either her own choice or some screwed-up attempt by Boob and Mullet to get her some kind of help (so many people commented, including me, that there was a period where she started seeming really lifeless and depressed)... but knowing the mentality of those two clowns, they probably sent her because it's always the victim's fault, not only that it happened, but it's also their fault that they struggle with the pain and negative emotions in the aftermath.

I do feel bad that I always dubbed Jessa the Regina George of the TTH... the seemingly hard and catty vibes she put off may be her way of coping and protecting herself.

Jill trying hard to be the perfect fundie daughter and wife... maybe it's her way of dealing? If she tries hard and makes as few mistakes as possible she can redeem herself from her "shame" (even though she did NOTHING wrong). I also wonder about the clinging to Derick, maybe she felt safer with him?

Jinger losing a drastic amount of weight quickly and commenting that she feels unworthy... Joy going from fun-loving tomboy to sad, sullen "Joyless"... the more I think about it and try to wrap my head around it (hence my weird, disjointed posts) the angrier I get.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I can share my theory on this. When we are growing up, we look at safety in one way. But- when we have a baby or are pregnant with a baby, we women look at the environment and what's safe for the precious baby a lot differently.

It may be a very strong emotion for many men as well, IDK, because my ex-husband never shared his feelings about our child.

My bet is that one of the married Duggar girls requested and then leaked the reports. Oprah may still have a hand in some things as well, such as encouraging the young mothers to be pro-active for their babies. Oprah was raped as a child, she knows generational abuse.

The young adult victims' children could be at risk now or in the future because none of us know what is in Josh's mind or what his boundaries are now.

One of my first thoughts when the report leaked was that maybe Jessa is having a girl and she's afraid of what Josh might do. She might not think M babies are in danger, but she might worry for her own baby. Didn't she say recently that she wasn't even going to tell her family the baby's sex. Maybe this is why.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Since both Jill and Jessa were fairly heavily chaperoned before their weddings, I doubt that either one was able to tell their spouses about Josh's abuse before they married. However, after they married, I am sure that they most probably did.

They both were able to have phone calls in private after engagement. And they were chaperoned by siblings. It wouldn't have taken much for them to have had a chance to talk to their intended about it.

[albanuadh_1]

I find Anna's statement a bit confusing. Weren't we led to believe that it was a quick friendship and courtship? I thought they met at camp. She states that 2 years prior, they visited the Duggars and Josh told them. God, I hope he talked in general terms! Can you imagine being one of the sisters sitting around during that conversation?

About TLC keeping the show going, I believe the sponsors might be the deciding factor. No money, no show.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Im pretty sure the only princess book they were allowed to read was Sarah Mally's 'Before you meet prince charming: A guide to radiant purity'.

It's a Gothard approved story written by a woman raised in ATI. The book is for pre-teens, and tells a story about a prince looking for his princess to marry. The point of the book is to indoctrinate young women to remain pure in their thoughts and actions so as to remain pure for their future husband.

Didn't that come out some time after the show already started?

[Peas n carrots]

Forgive me if someone offered some info on my question already, I'm up to page 30 and I can't keep up.

Does anyone know what makes the people who commit this kind of abuse tick? My first thought was what Josh did was 100% a by-product of his upbringing, but the more I think about it I'm not so sure. The girls were all pre-pubescent with the exception of Jana who was likely going through puberty. There must be millions of boys who grow up in extremely sexually repressive households, but only a small fraction molest their pre-pubescent sisters. I mean, I've heard of teenage boys becoming creative when they are curious about girls - even a catalogue will suffice. The more I think about this, the more it's just not normal for Josh to have fixated on such young girls, even if that is all he had access to.

I suppose I'm just becoming more and more concerned for Mac and the upcoming daughter, especially with Anna and her parents being so fucking clueless.

I also think the timing of this is interesting as well. The election talk is getting hot, and with Josh being so visibly active with the conservatives I wouldn't be surprised if someone was trying to dig up dirt on Josh and hit money. I also wouldn't be totally surprised if he made enemies within FRC either - I can believe there would have been some resentment towards him, especially when so many of the staff members there are extremely educated and had to work for this job while Josh the bumpkin was handed the position due to his name. I just really doubt that any of the Duggars or Derrick/Ben would have tipped off the media, especially if the J'slaves want to stay quiet. I don't see Derrick/Ben disrespecting their wive's wishes.

[Jinderella]

They both were able to have phone calls in private after engagement. And they were chaperoned by siblings. It wouldn't have taken much for them to have had a chance to talk to their intended about it.

But they were learned to feel ashamed. They were told this was all their fault. We don't like to tell "bad stuff" about our self when we are just in the stage of getting to know each other. I think Jill and Jessa told their husbands, but I think it was after marriage.

[imokit]

One of my first thoughts when the report leaked was that maybe Jessa is having a girl and she's afraid of what Josh might do. She might not think M babies are in danger, but she might worry for her own baby. Didn't she say recently that she wasn't even going to tell her family the baby's sex. Maybe this is why.

Jessa can be catty and mean and selfish. I can completely see her channelling this as a fierce mama who would hunt down any perceived threat to her child. If one of the kids was involved in this leaking, she (or Ben) are the most likely. They are the ones who could have made a conscious choice to protect their new family and the deliberate cost of the others. She's also 16 weeks pregnant, and has just entered the window where she could know the gender. If she had a scan in the past week, and has found out she's having a girl, this may have changed things further and explain the timing.

[IrishCarrie]

I'm just getting caught up here and my head is buzzing with so many thoughts I don't know where to start....

There's one thing driving me nuts though, and I know it's a relatively trivial point in the scheme of things, but here it is: JimBob and Michelle knew that their daughters had been sexually abused by their son. And they still kept up the overt sexual behaviour in front of them, shoving their sex lives down their throats, dry humping on golf courses and making stupid sex-oriented remarks about Jill and Jessa's evolving love lives???

On what F#%KING PLANET is that the response of a parent to the abuse of their child???!!!!

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

[Eternalbluepearl]

Who is protecting Johanna, Jennifer, Jordyn and Josie? I can't imagine Jim Bob and Michelle allowing Josh around them. When Anna found out Kynzie was a girl, she must have been terrified. Michelle and Jimbob must have been too. And why, doesn't Josh say or Anna say anything like, now that we are parents, we see this totally differently? I couldn't imagine my son or daughter being violated.

[sockinshoe]

What did he say/do? I'm afraid I can't watch it right now.

This was in the most recent (?) 19KAC episode. They were talking about babies etc. with the married couples (Michelle and JB, Josh and Anna, Ben and Jessa, and Jill (Derick was recovering from surgery)). Josh made some unfunny remark that "Duggar tradition" holds that dads change diapers and moms do everything else, or whatever. Ben just went completely stony. If looks could kill, Josh would have been a puddle. Even Anna seemed to pick up on it and rambled about the aforementioned "tradition", before aimlessly trailing off. Ben only barely acknowledged them and didn't say anything in response. If I hadn't known about Josh, I would have chalked it up to Ben being a jerk who doesn't want to be told what to do... Now I'm not so sure. Ben made be a patriarchal manchild, but he adores Jessa and is very protective of her.

[Sweet Fellowship]

I just watched Ben's reaction to Josh in that interview and I don't know what to make of it. He didn't even seem to look at Josh. It was as if he was annoyed about something. It could just be he don't like being told what to do. I don't know. Something's up.

[Alye]

:pull-hair: I'm watching Digging in with the Duggars. The look on everyones face when Michelle says "Stirring up desires in someone who can't be righteously fulfilled." and it cuts to Jana, Jill, Ben Jessa, Josiah, Jed and Jer and the one whose name I can never remember is very telling. :pull-hair:

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Even one of the victims living inside the house said on the police report that she did not feel safe in the house and didn't entirely trust him. And considering there are 5 victims we're aware of, it's best not to trust.

That's not true, she said she didn't trust him BUT she felt safe in the house.

[Eternalbluepearl]

Ugh,just the thought of him changing Mckynzie's diapers. Oh this is all so upsetting.

[Finduilas]

Who is protecting Johanna, Jennifer, Jordyn and Josie? I can't imagine Jim Bob and Michelle allowing Josh around them. When Anna found out Kynzie was a girl, she must have been terrified. Michelle and Jimbob must have been too. And why, doesn't Josh say or Anna say anything like, now that we are parents, we see this totally differently? I couldn't imagine my son or daughter being violated.

Jana. And Jinger. And Joy. And probably JD and Joseph until he moved out. And the cameras in the house.Not Michelle and Jim Bob.

[Sweet Fellowship]

Ugh,just the thought of him changing Mckynzie's diapers. Oh this is all so upsetting.

I do hope those poor kids of his haven't fallen victim.

[Eternalbluepearl]

But that their own parents would allow them contact with this man. I have no words. And then Anna had kids with him. She's sick too.

[sockinshoe]

It's possible. The 5th victim lived in Lafayette, where she lived at the time. I did consider that myself.

I think this would go a long way to explaining some of her more Famy behaviours. I keep thinking of Josh's wedding, where Amy kept bringing up kissing and asking if he needed any advice etc. At the time it seemed attention grabbing, but possibly she could have been mentioning it because she knows Anna isn't his first kiss. And she keeps bringing up "kissing practise" because she and Josh's sisters were his kissing practise. I think that sort of behaviour might be her way of reclaiming herself and putting him on the spot/on notice that she still has this info. Also she smashed his cake in his face, which I thought was a really unkind thing to do, but maybe it was her way of releasing some anger or showing him what she thought of him and his "pure" wedding...

It also would explain how close she is to her female cousins, especially Jinger and Joy. They were the youngest when this happened and she may feel like she needs to protect them, particularly Joy. Jinger, in retrospect, seems the frailest of the sisters, but she had Jessa for strength (which might explain Jinger's behaviour during Jessa's courtship/engagement/wedding). Joy was not even school-aged, and she has nobody she can talk to about this (I'm not counting brothers, because it's the Duggars)... I wouldn't be surprised if Victim 5 were Amy and if she had been the one to tell (probably her parents or grandparents).

[Jencendiary]

I don't condone what Josh did and some level of culpability must be placed on him - bur is he really up there in registered sex offender territory

The state of Arkansas arrests children between the age of 14 and 16 every day.

Just not white, middle-class, State Senator/Pastor's sons.

[sockinshoe]

But they were learned to feel ashamed. They were told this was all their fault. We don't like to tell "bad stuff" about our self when we are just in the stage of getting to know each other. I think Jill and Jessa told their husbands, but I think it was after marriage.

I'm almost certain Jessa told Ben, based on his reactions to Josh and Anna in the most recent episode. I would not be surprised if Ben pulled a Nolan Manteufel and posted about it/told-all. I would argue that such a tell-all is misguided during an active case, but here, given that the statute of limitations is up, it might end up actually doing some good, provided the victims all consented. It might get the leghumpers to face reality, and draw attention to Gothard and his dangerous, abuse-riddled cult.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Could ave been Jill and Jessa together, or Jill and Derick. I already had a feeling something was up between Jill and her family. She isn't visiting them all that often, after her son was born, she stopped by their house on her way home, but didn't even leave the car, she was only there for a very short amount of time during Erica's interview and sitting very much apart rom the others, there was the preview of the "big step" that didn't seem to be good news for her parents and yesterday Derick posted a picture on instagram of JB holding Israel for the first time after more than a month. That's really strange. Didn't JB visit te hospital after the C-section? For me that points to Jill and Derick distancing from the Duggars.

But yesterday, when the Duggars must have known the shit was going to hit, Jill posted a picture of her and Jessa on Instagram. They didn't appear to be close in the past. If they where looking for comfort, wouldn't Jessa have gone to comfort Jinger? Maybe Jill and Jessa did this together?

A few people here mentioned Jana must be a victim because of her behavior. I think her behavior could very well be that of the only non-victim. I have a friend that is from a family of 4 boys and he was the only one not molested by their pastor. He told me it made him feel like an outsider between the siblings and the one even to ugly/unworthy to be molested (from a kids perspective, of course this changed with aging). Still his live is as much affected as that of his siblings, he is still single and very insecure.

Jana may have been safe because of JD, but she may feel quilt for not being able to protect her young sisters. She may feel she can't let something like that happen again and will keep her little sisters close until all boys are gone. Even if not touched, she can be a victim too.

How could the girls ever trust a brother again if the oldest off them (the role model) violated them by touching their breast before they even had breasts? How could this poor girls ever feel secure if they "defrauded" their own brother before they had someting to defraud with? Puberty must have been so hard. We are blaming Josh here and we should, but he now lost his job, his future... JB and M are to blame just as much, but will they pay? I doubt...

Honestly, I don't think there's a child in that family who isn't a victim in some way, except the abuser. They've either been touched or they've had to deal with the repercussions of what happened. I imagine that IF one of the girls was spared (I still think one of them -- either Jill or Jana -- lied when she said she wasn't touched), that girl would have a huge case of survivors guilt. Then, all the boys would not only have to deal with the reality of what their brother did to their siblings, but they're all treated as if they would do it themselves. And the younger girls, who may or may not be aware of what happened, are sure to have more restrictions than the older girls did at that age to minimize the likelihood of them being victims. Then, all the girls are made to shoulder the blame of even so much as a "wandering eye" from a man, which would develop a complex even without being made a victim. They're told they are worthless if they aren't pure, which obviously has destroyed the older girls, and probably put a lot of pressure on the younger girls for their compliance. I'm sure a lot of the boys feel helpless because they couldn't properly protect their sisters, which also likely causes a complex since a man is supposed to protect the women in his life.

Also, I was just thinking. Both Jessa and Jill talked about remaining pure during their courtship because they had to set an example for their younger sisters. At the time, it didn't make sense to me why they were so bent on doing something they didn't believe in. Now it makes sense: they weren't pure, but they had to keep up the illusion.

[TouchMeFall21]

Coming out of lurkdom to post a harrowing thought I had this morning (and forgive me if this has already been addressed)... But I could totally see JB blaming the Fall of the House of Duggar squarely on the girls in this situation. It's no secret that the rise of the Duggars in the past year from Z-list to C-list has been propelled in large part by the public's interest in Jessa and Jill's courtship/marriage/babies (all orchestrated behind-the-scenes by JB, of course). I could totally see JB saying to them that if they had just kept meek and mild, and didn't court such worldly attention, then the tabloids would have never had any interest in digging up the skeletons in the Duggar closet, and the public would still be blissfully unaware.

Just another one of 1,000,000 ways I could see JB+M totally blaming the victims...

[latraviata]

But that their own parents would allow them contact with this man. I have no words. And then Anna had kids with him. She's sick too.

Oh lighten up, he was a very young teen and he hasn't child molester written on his forehead.

A very young teen with raging hormons and no other options but his sisters, even masturbation is a big no no in that disturbed household. I don't condone it at all, let that be no misunderstanding. But to paint him with the sexual offender brush is a bit over the top.

I blame JB and M more than I blame Josh, he is a just product of his ridiculous fundie upbringing and so are his sisters.

I said it once and I say it again fundie households are a practice field for incest, clear and simple.