Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Rumors - Part 2

[drivingmishcrazy]

Quick Q, was 19KAC taken off netflix before this? I watched it on netflix last year and I can't find it now, but I haven't looked for it since then so I don't know whether it's been taken off as a reaction to what's happened or whether it was already gone. Anyone know?

Yeah since like February I think.

[meowmeow19]

I wonder if they made Josh be friends with David Waller to be accountability partners. I mean, they don't seem too friendly with each other but they did hang out and they both seem... odd.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Surely the best thing for the little kids in that house would be for J & M to go elsewhere for a while leaving Jana in charge with Jinger & Joy. Those 3 are currently doing all the parenting anyway (so it wouldn't be more work for them) and that way the kids stay together in the family home. It would be worse for the littles to go stay with Jill/Jessa where they don't have their stuff and knowledge of the house works.

In this situation Anna could see sense and move in with her kids sans Josh.

I never thought of that-usually when you think of a case when a child has been abused in the home, you think of children going to live elsewhere...but with them having perfectly safe adults at home who are already doing the bulk of the child raising, yeah, that makes sense.

[Eternalbluepearl]

I'm so angry at Jimbob and Michelle, it hurts.

[hahe77]

So, I googled Harold Walker, from the police report. The man who Michelle said Josh went to stay with for 'mentoring'. There's a Harold Walker in A Love That Multiplies, in a story from 2010. At that point, he's the mayor of a town called Camden, Michigan.

http://i.gyazo.com/56e1e716fa7c840dd60180637106c1cc.png

I live in the same county as Camden, MI. The Dugger family was here for that revival maybe 7 years ago. My daughter and I ran into one of the older girls (maybe Jinger) at the 4th of July fair our county has.

Camden is a very small town. It's in the southern most part of the county. It has a large Amish population. Camden is considered a township because of how small it is. So that means there is no major but is a township supervisor.

http://www.hillsdalecounty.info/government0010.asp

[lilpapaya]

Anna's statement is so strange, she is so proud of herself for accepting Josh's marraige proposal..... She boasts about how he's a gentleman who can treat a girl right..... I'm gonna throw up. And it is INFURIATING at the end when she thanks those who work with children in crisis because in context she's referring to those who "helped" Josh. Gee Anna, and what about the victims?? You know, most of whom are your sisters in law?!?! Jesus Christ.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I think their religious upbringing is part of the problem. Best thing for them would be to see an certified secular counselor (or one who doesn't let his/her Christian faith play a part) who can help them work through it.

I disagree. I think that a Christian counselor will make them feel safer and help them battle the damage their parents did by blaming them. Obviously they shouldn't go to a Gothard approved counselor, but there are plenty of Christian counselors who can help them reconcile their beliefs while helping them cope with the reality of what happened to them in that house.

[formergothardite]

Is there a list of 19kids and counting sponsors anywhere? I want to start emailing them about this. I think this is one of the best ways to get TLC to take this family off the air.

[Eternalbluepearl]

Anna's statement is so strange, she is so proud of herself for accepting Josh's marraige proposal..... She boasts about how he's a gentleman who can treat a girl right..... I'm gonna throw up. And it is INFURIATING at the end when she thanks those who work with children in crisis because in context she's referring to those who "helped" Josh. Gee Anna, and what about the victims?? You know, most of whom are your sisters in law?!?! Jesus Christ.

I agree completely. Anna does sound proud of herself. And they are spinning this like Josh was going down a bad road, but then he was saved. Praise God. The end. Nothing about those he hurt. It's sick.

[drivingmishcrazy]

I've been talking to my boyfriend about this, and I hate that I have to explain some aspects to him because he cannot wrap his head around parents covering up their daughters' abuse to protect their son who is the abuser. Granted my upbringing was not the exact same, but certain things hold true, including the mindset, I almost feel angry that I'm not nearly as baffled as he is by this whole mess.

I honestly hope that this wakes people up. And I hope that somehow the girls are able to find out/see that they have support and maybe they could possibly find a way to help themselves, so to speak. It's all just sad.

[Jencendiary]

I live in the same county as Camden, MI. The Dugger family was here for that revival maybe 7 years ago. My daughter and I ran into one of the older girls (maybe Jinger) at the 4th of July fair our county has.

Camden is a very small town. It's in the southern most part of the county. It has a large Amish population. Camden is considered a township because of how small it is. So that means there is no major but is a township supervisor.

http://www.hillsdalecounty.info/government0010.asp

Oh, look. Michelle exaggerating. Who would have guessed. Thanks for the helpful info. And guess what, y'all. Harold Walker of Camden, MI owns a contracting business with the fundie-riffic name of Eternal Contractor.

http://www.manta.com/c/mw2vhyq/eternal-contractor

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I try not to post on FJ too much because I get sucked in, but wow. It's 2pm here now and I found out around 10am from a gossip email I somehow am subscribed to. Part of me is in shock, but I'm also not surprised. I've been lurking all day at work and was going to wait to post until getting home but I have a lot of posts.

I have always been a little skeezed by josh, which is easy to say now, but it's the same feeling I used to get when my cousin wanted to play doctor (disclosure, nothing happened but it always seemed wrong)... I had no reason to feel uncomfortable but I did anyway.

I feel so bad for those poor girls. Like others, I don't want to play psychologist and presume certain things are because of what has or hasn't happened, but it's hard not to. I wouldn't be surprised if it was all the girls and one of them couldn't bring themself to tell the full story as well; what we know is only part of it.

I really want to believe it was curiosity, hormones and the secluded upbringing, but I don't think that's it. I lambasted Lena Dunham last year and I don't want to cut josh slack because of his upbringing, though it is certainly a factor in what happened. No excuse for what he did, but I can't help but wonder if it would have happened otherwise. I think this has been weighing on his conscious for a long time. Again, doesn't make it better but I can imagine it would have been hard for him. I wish he got the help he needed back then. Of course, no one got any help because God would help. Of course, why would God have let it happen in the first place? Did 4yo joy sin? Gah it makes me so angry.

I hope the girls get some help too. They really deserve it. The poor things have been made to feel this is their fault and that must be hard to handle. I guess it really brings home why they all are so protective and loving with their buddies; they want to make sure they aren't letting something happen to any one else.

I have never thought the duggars were saints, but I wasn't expecting this. Sure, those kids have been neglected, uneducated and there has been psychological abuse, but they all seemed to be happy and they may have been far from good, but I never thought they were this bad. If they truly believed in discipline and consequences, josh would have been forced to face them. Praying for forgiveness is not a consequence

To be fair, they believe God will help you so long as you choose him. They believe that sins are caused by you choosing the devil. If you sin, God can't stop you. But, God can forgive you and guide you if you come back to him.

[Finduilas]

This is just getting more and more sad. Anna's reply just sounds ... robotic, if that makes sense? What kind of parent would leave their daughter(S) so close to a potential abuser. I really can't believe she wrote that statement herself. Time will tell but I still have some hope that she will take her children and get out of there, back to Pa and Ma Keller, or even better with her non-ATI sibling who must be horrified right now. Her sibling will offer her help, and she will either take it or turn against them.

I wouldn't be surprised if suddenly the older girls (probably too late for Jana, maybe even Jinger, but not Joy) were conveniently allowed to go into higher education to save appearances. Good for publicity ('See, we do not treat our daughters differently') and if it was sth far like Crown College it would be really good for them.

I just read the Guardian article and once again I'm a bit annoyed by the fact that everybody keeps quoting Josh's statement and no one seem to say 'No dear, abusing people is not a 'teenage mistake'. Abusing a child is not a 'teenage mistake'.' I really want to read someone clearly saying that his statement is bullshit and it's disrespectful toward the victims. This is a good opportunity to get some sexual abuse education done ...

[VodouDoll]

This has now made news in Australia (which to my knowledge doesn't even air 19KAC). It's a small piece in the world news section, hardly headline stuff, but still in the news. I cannot possibly see how the show can continue in its current form. How convenient the supposed season finale was a few days ago :shifty-kitty:

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio ... ion-claims

ETA: just watched Ben's reaction in the video linked above. Wow. That was cold.

What did he say/do? I'm afraid I can't watch it right now.

[lizzielouwho]

I haven't read all 37 pages so I'm not sure if anyone has posted this already, but I have feeling that jb&m didnt tell the other kids this happend but John David somehow found out, and he does work for the police so maybe he found a way to look into the investigation and later informed the media and somehow the media got a copy of the report. I don't think Ben or Derrick have anything to do with this coming out, but if there is anyone who might have something to do with this it's John David.

also, it happened between the early specials of 14 kids and pregnant again and raising 16 children, because Josh was bald in the raising 16 children special, so he probably did go to alert, so michelle also lied about that.

I also don't think that anna and josh are going to move back to arkansas because anna is due in a month, they'll probably wait until m4 is born, like they did with marcus birth.

I'm sorry for my crappy spelling, grammar etc.

I also think it may have been John David. This is all speculation. I think JD has been pulling away for years. I also think that JB has been feeding him bull **** about financial stuff for years in order to "control" JD and keep him in line. I speculate that the kids have been taught that there are many things you never speak to anyone outside the family about including financial matters. Well JD has recently acquired some new family members in the form of Derek and Ben. Maybe he said something to Derek about the financial control JB is exerting on him and Derek informed him that JB is full of shit. Or he just saw Derek request and be given control of Jill's share of the money and figured it out on his own. He may feel very betrayed buy the lies he has been told. JD then confronts JB about a bunch of stuff and uses his LE position to acquire the police reports.

I think JD has not really lived in the compound for years and has been "playing" along because JB has not allowed him to have full control of his money unless JB can be involved. JB is listed on all of JD's business and apparently houses. I've wondered about JD for years since he had to have lots of outside contact with other people from the time he started driving the tow truck. He would have been unchaperoned with all kinds of people including young women his own age which is why I have wondered if he hasn't dated or at least become friendly with someone.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Is there any way that the 5th person could be Amy??

It's possible. The 5th victim lived in Lafayette, where she lived at the time. I did consider that myself.

[Pixie_Ham]

So I'm still trying to wrap my head around the magnitude of this situation. Besides the fact that this pretty much proves how awful JB & M are as parents (let's cover up molestation)...some Mother of the Year! I think it also proves how warped it is to bring your kids up with unhealthy thoughts about sex.

Not excusing Josh at all but I do think JB & Ms unhealthy relationship with sex education is a potential contributing factor. I've read time and again on this site how it's unhealthy to bury all your sexual feelings and how the courtship model is all kinds of wrong. Seriously, this proves it in my eyes. A regular 16 year old boy would have been out there dating, learning about himself (ahem) in a more personal way. Those routes and explorations are barred to the Duggar children.

Again this doesn't excuse Josh at all. But there are other boys in the Duggar family with normal, human urges who are being forced to deny them. It's so wrong and infuriating that they are force-fed a line of 'it's all bad' unless you're married. This should be a wakeup call. What's worse really, masturbating or MOLESTING YOUR SISTERS?!?!?!?

[Finduilas]

So I'm still trying to wrap my head around the magnitude of this situation. Besides the fact that this pretty much proves how awful JB & M are as parents (let's cover up molestation)...some Mother of the Year! I think it also proves how warped it is to bring your kids up with unhealthy thoughts about sex.

That's the other thing that really bugs me : why is the fact that J/M covered up the whole story (AND the spanking bit of the police report) not mentioned or at least emphasized in most articles?

In a way I kind of hope that the show won't be cancelled for another couple of years because the constant cameras sort of provide mild protection. And being in the public eye force the family to behave and act more liberal (like sending kids to college).

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

On one hand I am glad this was exposed to maybe knock some social/peer-pressure into Michelle and JimBob on how to correctly deal with situations rather than sweeping them under the rug.

The other hand, I wish this had not been exposed. Josh is going to move back, near the girls in which he molested. During the time he was in D.C. the girls could at least breathe without seeing their perpetrator. In addition, this brings up publicly their pain and suffering. It must not be easy. They will, under the ultimate headship, have to forgive once again and except Josh into their lives. :(

Not to mention that I imagine a lot of their fundie friends knew Josh to be "impure," but how many of them knew that his victims were his sisters? With his his parents, his wife, and Josh himself responded by not mentioning anything about who his victims were or what the reality of their home life was as a result, it wouldn't surprise me that people didn't know all the details.

How are the girls going to be treated now? Will they lose their friendships and find themselves even more limited to the Duggar compound?

[Kn22]

I wonder if these police reports were somehow leaked by Jessa and Ben. What if they recently found out they are having a girl and wanted to protect their daughter.

My heart is so heavy. I hope that the girls have found some sort of peace and that they get all the help they need. I feel so disturbed thinking back to all the episodes I've seen and the perverted comments made and not realizing that this had happened. Those poor girls. How can Jim Bob make all these sexual comments around them KNOWING damn well what happened to them. I'm still just so shocked.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

A pedophile is an adult who is sexually attracted to children, not much younger adults. The report is a little nonspecific on number of incidents that occurred to each child, but given that they all seem to have been substantially coached (really, you like broom ball? Me too, imagine that!) and were sleeping when the incidents occurred, it's really hard to know exactly what happened.

Not all of them were sleeping; in fact, I think only one was sleeping.

[latraviata]

So I'm still trying to wrap my head around the magnitude of this situation. Besides the fact that this pretty much proves how awful JB & M are as parents (let's cover up molestation)...some Mother of the Year! I think it also proves how warped it is to bring your kids up with unhealthy thoughts about sex.

Not excusing Josh at all but I do think JB & Ms unhealthy relationship with sex education is a potential contributing factor. I've read time and again on this site how it's unhealthy to bury all your sexual feelings and how the courtship model is all kinds of wrong. Seriously, this proves it in my eyes. A regular 16 year old boy would have been out there dating, learning about himself (ahem) in a more personal way. Those routes and explorations are barred to the Duggar children.

Again this doesn't excuse Josh at all. But there are other boys in the Duggar family with normal, human urges who are being forced to deny them. It's so wrong and infuriating that they are force-fed a line of 'it's all bad' unless you're married. This should be a wakeup call. What's worse really, masturbating or MOLESTING YOUR SISTERS?!?!?!?

I whole-heartedly agree with you. The fundie christian households are a practice field for incest!!

[LilahBelle]

I really hope that this is what brings it all tumbling down - if this brings at least one of these kids,Josh, Anna, Jana, whoever, into REAL therapy, this might be all they need for them all to go, like dominoes. It might be, a way to turning the lemons into lemonade.

The more I think about it, the more I am really concerned over the level of criticism leveled at Josh. He's being called a pedophile, a sociopath, etc, talk about him being kept away from his own daughters, Anna being lumped in as "just as bad." How much can people take? Might he also be seen within this whole family as the one who put an end to their gravy train, on top of what he did 12 years ago?

I don't condone what Josh did and some level of culpability must be placed on him - bur is he really up there in registered sex offender territory??? He was what, 14, when he started this, and yes, the thought of him touching a child of 4 or 8 is disturbing, but is it the same as a 30 year old doing so? All kids experiment to some degree, and what do you expect from a teenage boy who is caged the way he is, and where sex is this all pervasive idea, but is taboo? He sees his mother's constant pregnancies, perhaps the fertility chart, and then the constant sex is taboo for you, Josh? While he was 14 or 15, I suspect that mentally he was much younger than that. You have a kid who is likely told that as eldest, he bears responsibility, he's a man, biblically, but he has none of the rights of a man, none of the experiences of a man, and he's likely had less ability to mature emotionally than a kid about half his age. And all the raging hormones of a teenage boy. With all that crap, what did anybody think would happen? And now Josh is the ultimate bad guy? Um, no, I think it's time people started taking a cold, hard look at Jim Bob and Michelle. The minute they found out all this was going on, it was a fucking wake up call. They should have STOPPED procreating immediately, and started focusing on the kids they had and they very real problem they created. If God sends them messages about everything else, then why not this? They should have put Josh in a real program, and then the girls in a real program. But I suppose a family that could barely afford to feed all of them back then were not going to spring for the therapy to undo all the damage they caused. And then there was TLC now knocking on the door. So instead of therapy, the kids now were forced to parade before the camera like they were a perfect family, when in fact it had been blown apart by all this pseudo-religious crap. I say pseudo-religious because they really have no connection to any god - I'd like to think that people who have such connections would have gone down a different path here.

[latraviata]

I really hope that this is what brings it all tumbling down - if this brings at least one of these kids,Josh, Anna, Jana, whoever, into REAL therapy, this might be all they need for them all to go, like dominoes. It might be, a way to turning the lemons into lemonade.

The more I think about it, the more I am really concerned over the level of criticism leveled at Josh. He's being called a pedophile, a sociopath, etc, talk about him being kept away from his own daughters, Anna being lumped in as "just as bad." How much can people take? Might he also be seen within this whole family as the one who put an end to their gravy train, on top of what he did 12 years ago?

I don't condone what Josh did and some level of culpability must be placed on him - bur is he really up there in registered sex offender territory??? He was what, 14, when he started this, and yes, the thought of him touching a child of 4 or 8 is disturbing, but is it the same as a 30 year old doing so? All kids experiment to some degree, and what do you expect from a teenage boy who is caged the way he is, and where sex is this all pervasive idea, but is taboo? He sees his mother's constant pregnancies, perhaps the fertility chart, and then the constant sex is taboo for you, Josh? While he was 14 or 15, I suspect that mentally he was much younger than that. You have a kid who is likely told that as eldest, he bears responsibility, he's a man, biblically, but he has none of the rights of a man, none of the experiences of a man, and he's likely had less ability to mature emotionally than a kid about half his age. And all the raging hormones of a teenage boy. With all that crap, what did anybody think would happen? And now Josh is the ultimate bad guy? Um, no, I think it's time people started taking a cold, hard look at Jim Bob and Michelle. The minute they found out all this was going on, it was a fucking wake up call. They should have STOPPED procreating immediately, and started focusing on the kids they had and they very real problem they created. If God sends them messages about everything else, then why not this? They should have put Josh in a real program, and then the girls in a real program. But I suppose a family that could barely afford to feed all of them back then were not going to spring for the therapy to undo all the damage they caused. And then there was TLC now knocking on the door. So instead of therapy, the kids now were forced to parade before the camera like they were a perfect family, when in fact it had been blown apart by all this pseudo-religious crap. I say pseudo-religious because they really have no connection to any god - I'd like to think that people who have such connections would have gone down a different path here.

This! A hundred time this!!

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

How soon will all those Republicans wash their hands of the Duggars? All those selfies Josh took.

I would love a statement from the Bates and FRC.

I think they are so used to having things blow over they think this will as well.

My DH asked me tonight who brought it up again and why. Are there any answers yet? Who is profiting from this? One would think the family wants to keep Josh in DC.

I hate that Anna and kids could be hurt, well the kids. Anna knew what she was getting into. Maybe JB gave Mr. Keller a dowry.

So many adults knew and did nothing and went along with the fakery of it all.

FRC posted his "letter of resignation," which looks rather like someone wrote it and made Josh sign it.