Doctor refuses to treat lesbians' baby.

[Mama Mia]

I'm not denying that, but if a doctor wrote a note to a parents saying that he could not treat the baby because the parents are interracial, you better believe it would be all over the news and the doctor would be shamed out of business.

Maybe. Key point being inter- racial. But if the Doctor wrote the exact same letter, without specifying the " why"? I don't think it's likely. I don't know, I've just seen the difference in treatment up close and personal -- and I think it is far more prevelant than you would believe possible.

[LittleOleMe]

Actually, no, doctors do not do this. Quite a few pediatricians have recently been opting out of treating patients who have not been vaccinated according to recommendations -- they just refuse to have them in their offices at all.

This is quite true. Doctors SHOULD treat everyone, but they don't. They constantly discriminate against parents of certain beliefs. All the time. Technically they can't just "fire" them, but they will anyway.

[whoviana]

When it comes to health, people's lives I wouldn't allow wacko to treat my kid. There are too many lunatics out there thinking that their baby or certain patients are in a better place in God's hands. I can imagine this doctor trying to save this child from the ebil lesbians by mistreating him or her so that the baby can go straight to heaven and won't have to grow up in sin. Refusing treatment from a baby is such vile shit that I can't wrap my mind around it and I would definitely not risking puttng my baby's life in a whackadoodle brainwashed bible thumper's hand.

[whoviana]

Also, she shouldn't be practicing. People with biased opinions that differentiate one patient from another patient shouldn't become doctors.

[Mama Mia]

I really don't know why everyone is assuming she is Christian? People keep saying " Christian, and bible and Jesus to explain her gay bashing. But Christianity is hardly the only religion that has some adherents who are still homophobic. I know Christianity is the default religion in the U.S. , but it's not monolithic. I saw her name and it sounds, to me,* like a Hare Krishna name. And Hare Krishna's are, at least officially, just as anti- gay as the Christian fundamentalists we discuss here. interestingly, they also, officially, only believe in married sex between a man and a woman, for the sole purpose of making Krishna conscious babies.

*we had a large group of 2nd and 3 rd generation semi- Krishna kids in our neighborhood when my kids were growing up. All with Krishna first names and Latin last names. That must have thrown the census takers heads into a blender :lol:

[LittleOleMe]

I really don't know why everyone is assuming she is Christian? People keep saying " Christian, and bible and Jesus to explain her gay bashing. But Christianity is hardly the only religion that has some adherents who are still homophobic. I know Christianity is the default religion in the U.S. , but it's not monolithic. I saw her name and it sounds, to me,* like a Hare Krishna name. And Hare Krishna's are, at least officially, just as anti- gay as the Christian fundamentalists we discuss here. interestingly, they also, officially, only believe in married sex between a man and a woman, for the sole purpose of making Krishna conscious babies.

*we had a large group of 2nd and 3 rd generation semi- Krishna kids in our neighborhood when my kids were growing up. All with Krishna first names and Latin last names. That must have thrown the census takers heads into a blender :lol:

You make a good point. She's also in Michigan, which is has the largest muslim population in the US. It's very possible she's not christian at all. I don't think the family made that assumption, though. It was just here, right? Of course, the idiots would say she's christian bc she said "god" and not "allah" or "yahweh", despite the fact that their all the same word.

[2xx1xy1JD]

There are HUGE differences in the overall quality of care received by racial and ethnic minorities. Just like there are huge differences in incarceration rates -- for the exact same crimes. All you have to do is look at any set of statistics regarding mortality / morbidity for various diseases/ health conditions.

I'm not excusing this Doctor, at all, but I think people, particularly the media, tend to be pretty oblivious to the seriously racist and classist treatment in health care that is rampant in the UnitedStates. Any attempts to address it are usually met with some sort of patronizing " explanation" that boils down to " well if only those backwards brown/ black people would do what nice middle class white people do they wouldn't have these problems."

Good point. I was wondering what would happen if the letter didn't make it clear what the issue was, but simply said something about requiring a personal interview prior to being accepted into the practice and then simply saying something vague about not being accepted and different visions. Would that open the door to all sorts of discrimination? I know that universities have a history of using those techniques to limit minority enrollment.

ETA: I just looked up the guidelines in Ontario. Here, doctors are advised to avoid screening and just do first-come, first-serve, and only to screen according to clearly set-up scope of practice or clinical competence. So, for example, a pediatrician can refuse to treat an adult or a child with extremely complicated medical needs that go beyond her skill level, but she shouldn't otherwise cherry-pick patients.

[lawlifelgbt]

What the Michigan "religious freedom" law allowing refusal to provide services to LGBT people really is, is a license to kill.

Think about it. There are no exceptions for cops, EMTs, or obviously, doctors. So EMTs could, in Michigan, leave me to die by the side of the road if I was in a car accident and my wife was there (so they would know I was gay). I know, extreme scenario, but it's possible. I think there was already something that happened where EMTs refused to treat an LGBT person in Michigan, and had to be persuaded by onlookers to DO THEIR JOB.

[2xx1xy1JD]

You make a good point. She's also in Michigan, which is has the largest muslim population in the US. It's very possible she's not christian at all. I don't think the family made that assumption, though. It was just here, right? Of course, the idiots would say she's christian bc she said "god" and not "allah" or "yahweh", despite the fact that their all the same word.

The doctor has stated that she is a born-again Christian:

http://www.wxyz.com/news/doctor-issues- ... ian-couple

She is claiming that the allegations against her have been misrepresented and that she can't comment due to privacy laws. She could have made a clear statement, though, about whether she would or would not turn down a patient of same-sex parents, and she hasn't done so.

[StellaMarie]

Good point. I was wondering what would happen if the letter didn't make it clear what the issue was, but simply said something about requiring a personal interview prior to being accepted into the practice and then simply saying something vague about not being accepted and different visions. Would that open the door to all sorts of discrimination? I know that universities have a history of using those techniques to limit minority enrollment.

ETA: I just looked up the guidelines in Ontario. Here, doctors are advised to avoid screening and just do first-come, first-serve, and only to screen according to clearly set-up scope of practice or clinical competence. So, for example, a pediatrician can refuse to treat an adult or a child with extremely complicated medical needs that go beyond her skill level, but she shouldn't otherwise cherry-pick patients.

They did have an interview with her! Presumably, though, it was they who were interviewing the doctor, because the Detroit Free Press article says that this doctor is "one of many they [the couple] interviewed."

I wholeheartedly disagree with this doctor's position, but she made it even worse by not making her "prayerful" position known until the poor women were in the waiting room with their brand new baby.

I think that if discrimination against LBGT individuals were illegal in MI (and it's really too bad it's not), people probably would get more discrete about their homophobia. The same thing happens with racial and sex discrimination all the time.

[StellaMarie]

The doctor has stated that she is a born-again Christian:

http://www.wxyz.com/news/doctor-issues- ... ian-couple

She is claiming that the allegations against her have been misrepresented and that she can't comment due to privacy laws. She could have made a clear statement, though, about whether she would or would not turn down a patient of same-sex parents, and she hasn't done so.

That's more than a little disingenuous given that they have a handwritten letter from her!

Which letter contains this lovely sentence:

Please know that I believe God gives us free choice and I would never judge anyone based on what they do with that free choice.

[Trynn]

Michigan resident here. Never got licensed but I went to EMT school. I know a lot of EMS from that and just in real life.

Eve the most conservative Among them (keeping in mind this isn't a job that attracts conservatives because occasional nudity) would never refuse to treat a patient based on those grounds.

I'm not saying it didn't happen once, but I have a hard time believing it's common. All ems workers I know take their job very seriously.

[LittleOleMe]

Michigan resident here. Never got licensed but I went to EMT school. I know a lot of EMS from that and just in real life.

Eve the most conservative Among them (keeping in mind this isn't a job that attracts conservatives because occasional nudity) would never refuse to treat a patient based on those grounds.

I'm not saying it didn't happen once, but I have a hard time believing it's common. All ems workers I know take their job very seriously.

I agree with you, as a non Michigan resident but former resident of the northern lands. People aren't going to go into that sort of training and put in that kind of effort, just to scoff as those they deem less worthy of their help. People with that sort of ego-complex go into law*, or become preachers at mega churches, or run business big enough to become people and exempt from taxes.

*Not all lawyers have an ego-complex, obviously, but people with ego-complexes do tend to go into law, and more specifically, corporate law.

[lawlifelgbt]

I agree that it may be very uncommon for EMS to refuse, but I did hear about an instance. And in any case, the law should not be so broad that I even have to think about this possibly happening.

Also, I'm taking the bar in July. I don't think I have an ego complex, but one can never tell with oneself.

[2xx1xy1JD]

There could also be a difference between refusing life-saving treatment altogether (which I assume would be really rare, because I cannot imagine what could possibly make anyone think that's ever appropriate), and providing treatment in a way that is respectful. For example, is a same-sex partner treated as a family member, or as a mere bystander?

[lawlifelgbt]

Good point, 2xx! When we're in non-recognizing states (since her family lives in one), my wife always says she'd make the biggest, most public fuss of it if she wasn't treated as my family if I got hurt, especially if she wasn't allowed to visit me. I'd engage in some public shaming, too, of anyone who got between us if the situation were reversed.

[Trynn]

For me and my associates personally, we would allow you to be treated like family except in cases where Hippa prohibited. We'd do out best, but in the end the law still isn't on your side. I'm hoping that changes soon.

[bionicmlle]

That's more than a little disingenuous given that they have a handwritten letter from her!

Which letter contains this lovely sentence:

The doctor didn't handle this situation well however she did not dump this patient nor deny them care. She did the appropriate thing whenever any doctor feels unable to provide the highest quality medical care and that is to refer them to a colleague. Her reason is ridiculous and I wholly disagree with it, however, if a physician has sexual feelings towards a patient (which is a normal and human thing to have happen),we'd expect that they do the same thing - transfer the patient to another physician who can provide non-biased and boundary-appropriate care - the patient may not be privy to the information about why as that may be harmful to the patient. These are sticky (ahem...) situations, but the most important thing is that the patient gets appropriate care - this patient did. The physician hung herself out to dry by divulging the "prayerful" and "judgement" bullshit.

[browncoatslytherin]

The doctor didn't handle this situation well however she did not dump this patient nor deny them care. She did the appropriate thing whenever any doctor feels unable to provide the highest quality medical care and that is to refer them to a colleague. Her reason is ridiculous and I wholly disagree with it, however, if a physician has sexual feelings towards a patient (which is a normal and human thing to have happen),we'd expect that they do the same thing - transfer the patient to another physician who can provide non-biased and boundary-appropriate care - the patient may not be privy to the information about why as that may be harmful to the patient. These are sticky (ahem...) situations, but the most important thing is that the patient gets appropriate care - this patient did. The physician hung herself out to dry by divulging the "prayerful" and "judgement" bullshit.

the thing is, though, she did not go about it in an appropriate way. if a doctor feels that things are not going to work out with a patient, they need to let them know BEFORE they come in for an appointment. i don't believe for one second that they did not have some way to contact the parents. i work with medical records all day, i know there is just no way that some sort of contact info was not saved in some capacity. if this doctor felt that way, she needed to write them/call them immediately, not wait until they were in office and send in another doc and not even meet with them at all and just send them a letter after the fact.

no matter what the circumstances, even if they were "fired" for a good reason, that is an incredibly shitty thing to do. seriously, when did it become okay to let basic manners and common courtesy go out the window?

of course, the shitty reason on top of the shitty procedure is just icing on the cake. but they are both equal parts of the same shit sandwich that just feeds into itself.

[LittleOleMe]

I agree that it may be very uncommon for EMS to refuse, but I did hear about an instance. And in any case, the law should not be so broad that I even have to think about this possibly happening.

Also, I'm taking the bar in July. I don't think I have an ego complex, but one can never tell with oneself.

I agree with you. 100%. It's really obnoxious and terrible that you even have to think about that.

You know what they say about those in denial :lol:

[CinderJana]

I use to live in a city with a large population of middle-eastern immigrants about thirty to forty percent they were of course of various religions.

A few years a go a doctor mistake,he give way to much medication if someone decided my life interfered with their 'beliefs' I'm dead that's hard for me to think about.