First Woman arrested for drug use during pregnancy

[Chowder Head]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/woman-charged- ... d=24542754

First Woman Charged on Controversial Law that Criminalizes Drug Use During Pregnancy in Tennessee .

[polecat]

""Hopefully it will send a signal to other women who are pregnant and have a drug problem to seek help. That's what we want them to do," he said."

No, actually it will deter women from seeking ANY medical help at all during their pregnancies.

But hey, it's not like the woman's life matters anyway other than as an incubator.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I've written a lot of this before, but here are some reasons that this is a bad, bad idea that will hurt moms and babies:

1. The idea of deterrence is complete bullshit. There's a reason this is called an addiction - if people could just decide not to do it one day, it wouldn't be an addiction. Doing meth during pregnancy is not a rational decision or something that people do for shits and giggles.

2. Addicts are going to need treatment if there is any realistic chance of overcoming the addiction, esp. since they may deal with withdrawal symptoms. Addicts will avoid treatment if they know that it can lead to being arrested.

3. Many addicts are part of a subculture that knows how to fly under the radar and exist at the margins of society. If someone is pregnant, you want to do everything possible to encourage them to engage with services - getting proper nutrition, health care, housing, etc. You also want them to give birth in hospitals, not back alleys. That lowers the odds of finding dead babies.

4. Jail does not protect fetuses. It's often a pretty bad environment for any woman with a higher risk pregnancy. I was involved in one case where a pregnant woman was incarcerate on drug charges while preg with twins. She went into premature labor and the twins died at birth. While a child protection agency attempted to blame the drugs, there was no proof that she was using in jail or that drugs played any role at all. Premature labor is a common risk with twin pregnancy, but when she complained of symptoms in early labor, they thought she was just complaining or faking and she wasn't allowed to rest and wasn't given medical attention.

[Georgiana]

Ugh. This is a close personal issue for me. My sister and cousin come from the domestic foster care system, and BOTH had pre-natal cocaine/heroin exposure. It's really sad and terrible what it can do to the babies.

However, the bottom line is that this helps NO ONE, except for self-righteous, holier than thou types who want to punish people for not being the way they want.

People who use drugs/alcohol during a pregnancy are ADDICTS. No one gets pregnant and then is like "I think it will be a fun and cool idea to use cocaine now!". I mean, people are pretty dumb. But by and large, those that continue to abuse substances during pregnancy do so because they cannot stop.

More than anything, they need help. And it just goes to show that these people only care about the fetus. Not the mother, who needs treatment. Not the future baby, who needs a drug-free mother to care for it after birth. Not both of them together, who probably need strong support and care while the child is an infant.

There's a church up by me that put it's money where it's Pro-Life mouth was and created a center for pregnant women in need. The center allows women to have safe housing, addiction counseling, parenting classes, access to medical care, job training, etc. The waitlist is over 2 years. THIS is what is needed to help women who use drugs while pregnant. Not criminal charges and incarceration.

[eh02]

Oh, this is sad. :( It is amazing how these things can pass when the public health research community is so 100% opposed. These idiot legislators can just make up whatever nonsense they want, whether or not it has ANY practical benefit to their community.

Women need to be encouraged to seek prenatal care. No matter what. The last thing a woman with a past or current drug problem needs is to carry out a pregnancy in secret for 9 months with no medical care out of fears of being thrown in jail.

Even if you didn't care about the mothers at all (and you should, of course), it is such an unnecessary risk for the fetus. 9 months of potentially undiagnosed and untreated issues, just because of a stupid, harmful policy that made their mother terrified to see a doctor.

[sparkles]

I'm really hoping that at some point all women in the world take a cue from Lysistrata and go on strike until we're given autonomy over own bodies and reproductive systems.

[CelticGoddess]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/woman-charged-controversial-law-criminalizes-drug-pregnancy/story?id=24542754

First Woman Charged on Controversial Law that Criminalizes Drug Use During Pregnancy in Tennessee .

Back in the 90's they arrested several women in Charleston, SC for testing positive for drugs after delivery. (They also tested the babies). It had the opposite, MUSC saw a HUGE surge of women without pre-natal care. They stopped arresting the women.

I've seen a heroin baby: It's sad, no doubt about it. Poor thing couldn't stand to be held for long periods and only certain nurses could actually hold him. He was tucked away in the well-baby nursery, away from the general hustle and bustle of the nursery, and was held only when time to give him his methadone or to feed him.

However, arresting the mothers is NOT the answer. The US has an abysmal record when it comes to drug treatment.

[PracticeMakesProgress]

Ugh. This is a close personal issue for me. My sister and cousin come from the domestic foster care system, and BOTH had pre-natal cocaine/heroin exposure. It's really sad and terrible what it can do to the babies.

However, the bottom line is that this helps NO ONE, except for self-righteous, holier than thou types who want to punish people for not being the way they want.

People who use drugs/alcohol during a pregnancy are ADDICTS. No one gets pregnant and then is like "I think it will be a fun and cool idea to use cocaine now!". I mean, people are pretty dumb. But by and large, those that continue to abuse substances during pregnancy do so because they cannot stop.

More than anything, they need help. And it just goes to show that these people only care about the fetus. Not the mother, who needs treatment. Not the future baby, who needs a drug-free mother to care for it after birth. Not both of them together, who probably need strong support and care while the child is an infant.

There's a church up by me that put it's money where it's Pro-Life mouth was and created a center for pregnant women in need. The center allows women to have safe housing, addiction counseling, parenting classes, access to medical care, job training, etc. The waitlist is over 2 years. THIS is what is needed to help women who use drugs while pregnant. Not criminal charges and incarceration.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN. I treat/see a lot of meth babies. No doubt about it, one of the saddest things you will see when you work with kids. The good news is, if given a loving environment and appropriate medical care, most can go on to be relatively healthy.

This is one of the biggest problems with fundamentalism, of any kind. People believe that all politics and religious beliefs can and should be boiled down to black-and-white stances. Few are willing to admit that when you make one decision that seems to have the "answer," perhaps another problem or concern is created. Do I feel ire welling up within me when I see how sick, fussy, and miserable these babies and toddlers are because their moms chose drugs over health? As someone who is struggling to get pregnant, YES. It burns me up. And I want to exact judgment and punishment on them....BUT, as it's been said, they are addicts. They did not likely stumble upon drugs during pregnancy as a way to pass the time. They need help. Sometimes people do need tough love. When the mother is carrying an innocent party, that is NOT the time. It is the time for treatment and support. We all need to be able to work somewhat harmoniously in the grey areas that compose real life. If you're so stuck in a myopic moral point of view, you will miss opportunities to fulfill the most important and most OBVIOUS command in the bible: LOVE. Now my sermon is over...

[CinderJana]

I was a drug baby,they sent me home with her. Trying to put all the the blame on guys she was with She abused and neglected me she almost kill me on more than one occasion! it may not be ideal but it's better than the alternative

[whoviana]

I was a drug baby,they sent me home with her. Trying to put all the the blame on guys she was with She abused and neglected me she almost kill me on more than one occasion! it may not be ideal but it's better than the alternative

I'm so sorry.

[CinderJana]

[Grimalkin]

I'm so sorry.

[Alexa]

Arresting women for this is a terrible idea. Get ready to start finding more babies in trash cans and dropped off at baby drop off zones.

[whoviana]

Arresting them while in crisis is just as much of a bright idea as crisis lines calling the police on suicidal people, taking them to the hospital by force, have them locked up in mental facilities.

The only message it sends is never! to trust authorities with your problem, never to ask or seek help, keep your misery to yourself and if you don't want to be cuffed, persecuted, getting locked up, the stfu, keep doing what you do, yes it sucks, yes you can end up dead but at least no one will treat you like a piece of shit, like a criminal, and strip you from your last thin layer of dignity.

[Grimalkin]

Arresting them while in crisis is just as much of a bright idea as crisis lines calling the police on suicidal people, taking them to the hospital by force, have them locked up in mental facilities.

The only message it sends is never! to trust authorities with your problem, never to ask or seek help, keep your misery to yourself and if you don't want to be cuffed, persecuted, getting locked up, the stfu, keep doing what you do, yes it sucks, yes you can end up dead but at least no one will treat you like a piece of shit, like a criminal, and strip you from your last thin layer of dignity.

Not sure I completely agree with the comparison. Not every pregnant heroine addict wants help, or to get sober even if they go to a doctor, or treatment. Addicts very often go because they want to stay in their home, keep a job, get what they want etc. that said, I think pregnant addicts should be able to get help for thier addiction without consequences. I don't see them as victims so much. It's more like negotiotiating with a person who has a child at knifepoint, do what you can to keep the baby as safe as possible. I know I sound hard, I have an enormouse amount of expierience with this and am a former addict myself.(not meth or heroine) I can also say without exaggeration I have met a dozen or so women who would give anything to have been arrested while pregnant if it meant not harming thier baby and living with the guilt of what they have done. I will be d over backwards to help a person who wants help, I have thoigh been burned, and manipulated, used and taken advantage of more times than I care to admit. "Comfort the afflicted, and afflict the comforted."

[whoviana]

I was thinking people in crisis in general.

I want to have a family but I live on benzodiazepines to fight my many anxieties. Without them, I'm lost, I'm trapped, I'm crippled. I cannot leave the apartment, I cannot talk to people, the first half hour after waking up and waiting for the meds to kick in is a horror.

I don't know if I'm addicted to them, I never abused them, but I'm dependent on them.

I want to start a family soon but I'm having a fright at being off my medications, which I'm planning to do in order to not poison the fetus.

I don't know how I'm going to handle it. We came to the US a month ago, I ran out of meds. We went from hospital to hospital, doctor to doctor until we understood that benzodiazepines are UNOBTAINABLE in the US, even if you show your ten-year history of taking them. I had to reduce my daily dosis by one fifth and the withdrawal symptoms almost killed me. They tried to give me some stupid shit instead that didn't work and I had to order my meds from the black market which is a huge and very protected crime in the US. They withhold life saving medications so that you'll be forced to order them from back alley pharmacies. That should pretty much make me an abuser, right? Even though in other countries, they'll prescribe your dose legally instead of steering you to obtaining your medications from dodgy and shady places.

If I'll be pregnant, I'll need constant medical care. I know I will have suicidal attacks. The proper response isn't cuffing women and locking them up. Whatever. This just scares the hell out of me. And will scare the hell out of many people in all kinds of different, drug and pregnancy related crises.

And yes, this will lead to more dead babies found in fast food restaurants' bathrooms and in trash cans.

[whoviana]

My gosh. I clicked the link, this isn't just an article, she was on TV, her full name, her face, everything. Arresting her wasn't enough, she had to be publicly humiliated.

[Grimalkin]

There is a distinction between dependancy and addiction. I would not criticize a person who takes meds for mental health anymore than my mom who takes blood thinners to prevent a heart attack. She is dependant on them to not have a stroke. I take Vyvanse and cannot wait for them to kick in, I get withdrawals when not on them, and take them as prescribed.

I hope you do not think I was criticizing you. I don't think there are any similarities between your situation and a heroine addict. And I cannot say enough that I would bend over backward to help an addict to get sober if they wanted it. Wanting to get sober and going through the motions to get the pressure off and avoid the consequences are two different things though.

I genuinely hope you find a solution to your problem and find peace.

[whoviana]

No, no, I absolutely didn't take it personally and I really appreciate your insight. I'm just upset for this woman and the possible outcome for other similar cases and for the lack of dignity she was treated with. I understand your take on the issue, too.

[LaLele]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN. I treat/see a lot of meth babies. No doubt about it, one of the saddest things you will see when you work with kids. The good news is, if given a loving environment and appropriate medical care, most can go on to be relatively healthy.

Yes, most of them are somewhat physically healthy, but the neurological after effects are pretty evident even in pre-school. I am an SLP currently working in a low socio-economic preschool and I would say about 1/4 of my caseload have had some sort of confirmed drug or alcohol exposure. A lot of these kids ability to learn, process, and retain language has been so altered by the chemicals their mom ingested that even at 4 there is a wide gap between them and their typically developing peers. It makes me incredibly angry when I think about how these poor kids could have turned out if they had not been exposed.

The feminist part of me rebels against the supposition that women are incubators, and further balks at the idea of giving a fetus personhood. However, I also want to cheer when I think of saving one of my potential student's developing brain...

[SoGladIWasCofE]

Ugh, no, this is not going to encourage people to get help. When has something requiring you to admit to a crime you could be arrested for ever encouraged people to get help?

Just as an aside, the more recent scientific evidence points towards crack not actually being harmful to fetuses at all. Of course, it does seem like it, because almost every single mother taking crack will be either drinking, taking other things, or using stuff that's cut with something nasty. But since most of the supposed "crack babies" seemed basically identical to babies with fetal alcohol syndrome, or other identified drug issues. And the monkey studies where they gave cocaine to pregnant monkeys turned up slightly larger than usual monkey babies. So, this is potentially prosecuting women for harming the fetus with a drug evidence shows isn't actually harmful to fetuses.

Just, how is this supposed to go? The woman turns up at whatever place is supposed to provide help, admits to a crime... and gets arrested? IDK how the hell this is supposed to work.

[RosyDaisy]

This has been going on for years in Alabama. It definitely hasn't been a deterrent.

[Trynn]

I have no faith in humanity anymore. I just don't.

[LeatherCouch]

I was a foster mom for more than a decade and most of my kids were newborns who were going through withdrawals and were very sick from complications. I adopted three of those babies and they now range in age from early teens to preschool aged. Two of them will never be able to live alone or support themselves. One might be able to. Everyone seems to focus on how the drugs affect the babies, but the struggle doesn't end in childhood. Adults made decisions to do things that directly disabled these children for life. It is a form of child abuse and has caused these kids to become adults who will rely on society to care for them throughout their lives.

On the other hand, arresting these women further drains society's resources without any benefit to anyone. They need treatment and support, two things they will not find in jail.

There is this general idea that we must vilify these women, but it is possible to ackowledge that what they did to these kids is horrible and abusive* while still respecting and valuing them as humans who need our love and support more than anything else.

To many people "drug babies" are a sort of abstract concept, but I tell you that if we don't help these women stop creating these kids who can not function as adults WE are the ones further hurting society. WE are a huge part of the problem and we really need to pull our heads out of our arses and find the compassion that is necessary to fix this mess.

*The kids need us to ackowledge that what happened to them before they were born causes their struggles, but society's tendency to vilify the women that gave them life does NOT help their healing process.

[Jana814]

Arresting women for this is a terrible idea. Get ready to start finding more babies in trash cans and dropped off at baby drop off zones.

Agree!