"Getting to know you" only after marriage

[DGayle]

Should we seriously assume she literally does nothing but sit at home 23 1/2 hours a day just because we don't have photographic proof that she's got a hobby, or goes out to see a friend, or visits her family?

Yes. Jill taking up a hobby or doing anything else would make far more interesting TV than Jill going to her husband's work every single day for lunch. If the camera crew that pretty much lives with them got footage of her doing anything else, whether it's painting the nursery with non-toxic paint, or decorating, or anything, that would be something different that would break up the same thing going on all the time. Jill going to meet up with Jessa for a married-girls lunch would be different. Getting ready to go have lunch with a friend, even if the lunch isn't shown, is different. Remember, TLC was so desperate for different after a while that they sent the Duggars on major trips just for something new to show. People will only watch the same routine for so long, and then they get tired of it. TLC isn't showing the same thing again and again for the fun of it.

[Coco]

Yes. Jill taking up a hobby or doing anything else would make far more interesting TV than Jill going to her husband's work every single day for lunch. If the camera crew that pretty much lives with them got footage of her doing anything else, whether it's painting the nursery with non-toxic paint, or decorating, or anything, that would be something different that would break up the same thing going on all the time. Jill going to meet up with Jessa for a married-girls lunch would be different. Getting ready to go have lunch with a friend, even if the lunch isn't shown, is different. Remember, TLC was so desperate for different after a while that they sent the Duggars on major trips just for something new to show. People will only watch the same routine for so long, and then they get tired of it. TLC isn't showing the same thing again and again for the fun of it.

Agree. And honestly i think Jill would blab it on Instagram herself anyway. She has had Jessa over for lunch. Made a massive amount of yogurt. Done laundry (she's not spending time organizing hanging clothes or doing precise folding based on the photo, so we know that she's probably not anal about hours of housework). Dressed up like cows to hang out at Chick-fil-a. Cut Derick's hair. Drank some Fanta. Registered for baby stuff, so obviously organizing a nursery, though they can't show it i guess because of the reveal on the show. Studied the Bible. Put bananas in the freezer. Got matching sandals with Derick (yay birthdays). Worked out, probably at the place Derick works. Bible study every morning with Dilly Daddy. And had a sleepover with a Veggietales movie with her kidlings. IIRC: this is just from memory :lol: But such banal posts make it seem like anything remotely interesting is worthy of posting.

Yep i definitely think she would be posting about any legit hobbies, or continued studies. She'd instagram a photo of her study book laying open or something.

[Coco]

oh i forgot - Razorback games. 8-) And a broadway showing of Cinderella. And they did post photos of having coffee with some fan/friends. So i really think if she was hanging out with people for fun, it would be showing up.

Another poster talked about the difference before and after marriage, how Jill seemed less clingy before. I really hope she changes back to that person, the one Derick fell in love with, for his sake. Honestly it's got to be a huge amount of pressure on her to be doing national gossip shows and things, like the interviews they did in New York. I bet she's scared right now while everything is new, to branch out much past the center of her universe: Derick.

I can't imagine how terrifying it would be to be famous for just living. There's no private space for her to go back to for safety, like other stars have. Her life is her fame. They've invited the entire world, weirdos and everything - anyone who watches - into their private home through photos and TV. It's not because of something great she's done or that she's earned or even really chosen. She can't escape it. Before they were married, she had the safe bubble of her family and a kind of herd protection in her sister group. Now she's front and center and i bet it's been a shock. The show is kind of riding on them now. Life continuing as they know it, people's interest, is in her court and i don't know if she was prepared for it. Making a mistake could cost her family some of their income and what she might see as income security for her younger siblings.

Yeah it would be better for the Duggars if the show was cancelled and they had to face the real world judging them for their screwed up beliefs, but that's on Jim Bob and Michelle. Jill has to choose now and has all of that on her mind. I think she is too clingy, and i don't think it's healthy for her or for their relationship, but all things considered, sort of understandable. I think she kind of bumbled into it like aw shucks and didn't realize what it would actually mean.

[Rescinded and Mended]

Speaking of Jill's baby registry, has anyone checked to see if anymore stuff was bought off of it? I'm wondering if Baby Dilly is going to get everything on the wish list.

I'll think it's weird if Jill and Derick are over a year into their marriage and she's still taking him to work and meeting him for lunch every day. But for now, the relationship is still pretty new, and they're both probably fine with it. I feel like that will change anyway once the baby gets here. She won't be driving Derick around so much after a sleepless night or if the little one is sick.

[RabbitKM]

I am solidly in the "Jill is clingy" camp and nobody can convince me otherwise. :nenner:

In all seriousness, we do pretty much know that she does not have any hobbies. She would post about it on instagram. Instead, she posts pictures of herself buying bananas at a discount and working out in business casual attire. I really would go nuts if that is what my life amounted to every day, but hey, that is what she trained for, right?

Derrick did choose this, so I don't feel sorry for him. He must have wanted someone to deliver him to work every day, do his laundry, bring him lunch, do his dishes, clean his house, and buy his bananas, every. single. day. I hope she is at least watching the news on her "work breaks" so she can soak in some current events and possibly popular culture.

[browncoatslytherin]

Every day?

I think it's weird. And clingy. And how a 14 yr old w no sense of self would behave.

i think jill is clingy, but i don't think the lunch every day thing is necessarily clingy. if i could, i would do the same with my fiance, and he wouldn't care. when he worked saturdays and sundays, we would facetime at his lunch break, and we still message or txt at each of his breaks (since his are rigid and mine are very flexible). we just like to spend as much time together as we can.

jill is still clingy, though. i just don't think this one instance is necessarily evidence alone of clingy-ness.

[HarleyQuinn]

I just don't think "the are in a new relationship" is a good excuse. I certainly didn't cling to my husband 24/7 before I married him. Jill never seems to let his hand go.

Hopefully she gets better, and yes, we don't know them, we only judge from pictures. But she looks clingy and he looks bored.

[paintergurl]

i think jill is clingy, but i don't think the lunch every day thing is necessarily clingy. if i could, i would do the same with my fiance, and he wouldn't care. when he worked saturdays and sundays, we would facetime at his lunch break, and we still message or txt at each of his breaks (since his are rigid and mine are very flexible). we just like to spend as much time together as we can.

jill is still clingy, though. i just don't think this one instance is necessarily evidence alone of clingy-ness.

It's not just the daily lunches, although I do think the lunches show that jill would spend every single second of every single day with Derrick if she could. I think jill behaves like a 14 yr old with no sense of self pretty much all the time. She's immature and childish and I don't think this is her fault.

That family discourages individuality, creativity and independent thought of any kind. The picture that jill presents of perfect contentment with her proscribed role as a woman (child) with a 'servant's heart', just suggests to me that she doesn't have any idea that it could be any other way, than to be clinging to the arm of your headship, gazing adoringly at him and never breaking that smile, while you wait for your litter of blessings to arrive. I am curious and hopeful that some of the other girls, as they grow up and begin to feel some freedom, will emerge as independent women who are happy to have time and purpose that is all their own.

Also, sometimes I imagine that Derrick looks scared, even while he's smiling. I would be.

[SassyPants]

If she has such a servant's heart, why isn't she shown out serving?

[DGayle]

If she has such a servant's heart, why isn't she shown out serving?

That's a million-dollar-question.

[BarbaraMary]

Having a servants heart is completely different from serving the people :p

[Yoshimi]

How do you know Derick wouldn’t want to spend every single second with Jill if HE could? Actually he did say that in an episode last season. In the same conversation where Jill said (jokingly) that it was “unacceptable†for him to work. People jumped all over her for that comment but leave out that Derick himself admitted that he doesn’t like being away from Jill unless he had to.

I don’t understand why Jill gets so much criticisms. The way I look at it, there’s two different scenarios that could be in play. One, Derick is a pansy who can’t stand up to his wife and tell her when to back off. Two, he actually truly enjoys being around her that much and doesn’t see her “clinginess†as a huge problem. Either way it doesn’t seem fair that Jill should get all the blame. Isn’t it possible like all newlyweds her and Derick are still figuring out how to balance married life with everything else going on? Most couples however don’t come under such heavy public scrutiny because the wife decided to post an innocuous photo of her eating lunch with her husband.

Also since when is cooking organic foods and working out not considered hobbies? One thing’s for sure, it seems that ever since she’s gotten married, she’s made a conscious effort to live a more healthy and active lifestyle. Someone here pointed out that she was becoming “crunchy†and I agree. We know that she definitely didn’t pick up on things like essential oils and gluten-free eating from her parents, which means that these are things she’s researching on her own time. Just because she’s not blatantly disregarding her parents by suddenly wearing shorts and declaring herself a Democrat doesn’t mean that she isn’t trying to create a unique lifestyle for her and Derick that THEY want.

[eh02]

:clap: Yoshimi!

ITA with everything. For a board that seems to generally try to criticize the double standards people like the Duggars have based on sex and gender, it's almost laughable that everyone is so quick to call Jill clingy while Derick is the miserable husband we are supposed to pity because his nagging clingy wife won't get off his back. There has not even been the tiniest hint that Derick doesn't want the same things she does. Nobody MADE Derick marry Jill. She gave him a pretty clear idea of what kind of woman she was when she did things like, you know, go through an entire list of criteria of what she wanted in a man and a marriage. And obviously that is a kind of woman he wanted to be with. The last thing anyone should do is feel sorry for that man, as if he's somehow been blindsided. He knew exactly what kind of relationship he was getting when he married Jill.

If they're both happy, it doesn't really matter if his employers think it is weird, or if anyone else thinks it's weird, honestly. It's their relationship. Are some of their mannerisms immature and unusual for people their age? Of course. But that's where they're both at. They'll get past it someday, I'm sure, and there will probably be times in the future where they will cherish moments ALONE. But if the worst problem they have right now is wanting to spend too much time together, they're not doing so bad, IMO.

[HereticHick]

If she has such a servant's heart, why isn't she shown out serving?

:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

[CorruptionInc.]

She does gym work (walking on the treadmill none the less - go for a walk outside!) but I think it's at home, which is prefectly fine. At least that's a start.

Jill really does see being a mother as her sole purpose in life. If she didn't, she wouldn't of got pregnant on her wedding night; or at least try to avoid that as she would've wanted to have some freedom that she has never had before.

[browncoatslytherin]

Jill really does see being a mother as her sole purpose in life. If she didn't, she wouldn't of got pregnant on her wedding night; or at least try to avoid that as she would've wanted to have some freedom that she has never had before.

well, considering her upbringing, even just doing something different like buying organic food only is a bigger step than it would be for most people. i think there's unrealistic expectations regarding the duggar children, the girls especially, on them breaking the mold they were forced into. there may be one or two that actually run away immediately, but if any of them change and transition, it will be on the little things first. just the fact that she is changing on little things like nutrition is good. it doesn't mean she will totally fall away or at least become fundie-lite, but if she does, that is how jill will do it. one small step at a time. indoctrination like that takes a long time to overcome, and isn't always overcome, and when it is it usually isn't done all at once.

i have no doubt that right now, she wants to be a mother. if she hadn't been raised the way she did, she might still feel that way anyway. some women just do. either way, she followed how she was raised, but she is still making small steps to differentiate herself. any changes that will happen won't happen all at once, overnight, no matter how much i wish it would.

[DGayle]

Cooking organic food isn't a hobby any more than cooking conventional food.

No one's giving Derrick a free pass. I think there's valid concern that the fundy way of chaperones all the time prevents these people from getting to know each other. Since the guys are allowed to work and get time away from watchful eyes, they know better how they'll be after marriage. Women who only get time for the first time when they marry are more likely to have traits come out that they don't know are there. I think there's not really any Jill-bashing, but rather lifestyle-bashing since it's doubtful she or Derrick expected her to have a hard time functioning without smothering him. And yes, a spouse going to work for lunch EVERY SINGLE DAY is very strange in the non-fundy world, and he...works in the non-fundy world. That sort of thing can lower someone in the eyes of their co-workers, including their managers.

If a business event ever comes up that requires someone to travel, who do you think a company would send, someone who can't be away from his wife for a whole shift, or someone who can separate home-life from work long enough to get through 9 hours? If I was the person in charge of that, I'd be worried that the employee who couldn't go a whole shift without spousey-poo wouldn't be able to focus on the business somewhere else and would instead worry about the spouse who isn't being seen for lunch. Losing out on opportunities like that can damage Derrick's chances for promotions and raises that he's going to need if they have tons of kids. If Derrick is truly wanting her there every single day, then, believe me, his boss really isn't going to look favorably on him.

My husband and I would love to spend all our time together, but we know it isn't healthy to be codependent on each other and not develop as individual people. We have lunch together every 2 or 3 weeks if I'm already downtown. We'll text sometimes, but there's no need to stop in every single day because co-dependence isn't a good thing. He also needs to be able to use lunch time to chat with his co-workers, strengthen those connections, and all that other business stuff that usually goes along with lunch.

No one's saying oh poor, blindsided Derrick. There's a lot of concern for how this sort of thing will affect Jill too.

How much can fundies really and truly know what they want before marriage when they're not allowed to experience a single damned real-relationship thing? They can't even have text conversations that aren't filtered through a parent or a sibling. They are stunted in every way, kids 1 day, and the next they're given 100% of the freedoms of an adult, and only within marriage are they allowed to start figuring things out, and only with some freedom can they find out who they are in a relationship, for themselves, and what they might want. There've been fundies who found out only after marriage that the husband has violent tendencies that he might not have known were there, and I'm sure Jill isn't the only fundy woman to find out she can't function by herself all day and so has to go be co-dependent on a husband at work.

Jill was used as an example, but the whole point is just how well do fundy singles really know each other, or even themselves, before binding themselves to each other and dragging babies into all of it?

[Handmaiden of Dog]

It is possible that Derick is allowing her free reign-- not because he is a wimp-- but because she is carrying his first child. Lots of men go completely awestruck by the pregnancy of their wife and bend over backwards to follow up on any whim their baby mama might have.

I was thinking about what I did to fill my time when I was pregnant with my first child after I quit my job. I:

Painted and stenciled the nursery

Bought furniture and supplies

Sewed a layette and embroidered some of the clothes

Sewed a baby quilt

Knitted booties and a jacket and a shawl

Read every book I could find on baby rearing

Continued to rehearse and sing in the church choir until past my due date

It seemed like there weren't enough hours in the day to get everything done that I wanted to get done, but I know Jill was not raised to be crafty or to read or to engage in outside activities. It is strange that she hasn't continued with her midwife studies, though. I would think being pregnant would make the midwife activities more interesting and poignant.

[browncoatslytherin]

Cooking organic food isn't a hobby any more than cooking conventional food.

i would disagree with this. cooking in general can be a hobby, if the person doing it considers it to be. i'm not sure about anyone else's definition, but to me, a hobby is just something that someone does that they enjoy doing. some people like working out and consider it a hobby, others may just do it because they know they need to. some may enjoy cooking and baking and reading recipes and techniques and experimenting, others may just want to just fix a meal and don't think much more of it. i don't know any other definition.

eta: tbh, i wish i had the time and funds to make cooking a hobby. i enjoy it when i get to do it. i would totally be the kind of person to be looking up and bookmarking recipes and trying out new things just for the sake of trying out new things. maybe someday...

[bluebird]

Jill came from a household of 21 people..she has gone from no privacy and extreme socialization to a lot of privacy and limited socialization. Those kids are not allowed to develop themselves or have much of a life outside of the family unit. The transition may be difficult for her. Caring for a new baby will structure up her day...she will have something to do day in and out to occupy her time.

[Feberin]

Is there a timeline for that? A limit for how long it has to be between your actual logged hours training and your exam? If she was approaching a time limit, I think it'd be safe to assume she is not planning on pursuing midwifery anymore. Which is fine, really, if that is what she decided to do, if her family would just shut up and stop calling her a midwife.

I think for me the constantly calling her a midwife grates when she hasn't finished training and I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon. Honestly right now would be the perfect time to work towards completing it. She doesn't have a baby yet and especially book/testing work should be pretty easy for her to complete but she seems to have lost interest. I have no issue if she wants to be a SAHM but I think she should just come out and admit it and they need to stop all the BS that she's just taking a break from her studies. It's not going to be easier to work towards her certification once she has a baby and if she is similar to her mother then she will soon be expecting again while also have a little one and that could go on for many, many years. This is the time to do it in my opinion if she's going to officially become a midwife otherwise just admit that she isn't interested in working outside the home.

[16strong]

Jill came from a household of 21 people..she has gone from no privacy and extreme socialization to a lot of privacy and limited socialization. Those kids are not allowed to develop themselves or have much of a life outside of the family unit. The transition may be difficult for her. Caring for a new baby will structure up her day...she will have something to do day in and out to occupy her time.

This is why Jill should be in school pursuing a rigorous degree instead of having babies. She would love the socialization that school offers, and the amount of work it requires would keep her busy and on task. She strikes me as the teacher's pet "Hermione" type. She'd probably be going to Princeton or Duke if her stupid parents hadn't stunted her intellectual curiosity. :angry-banghead:

[DGayle]

i would disagree with this. cooking in general can be a hobby, if the person doing it considers it to be.

Right, but the organic part isn't a hobby. If you like to cook, organic doesn't add additional challenges or make things easier. It it otherwise the same.

[browncoatslytherin]

Right, but the organic part isn't a hobby. If you like to cook, organic doesn't add additional challenges or make things easier. It it otherwise the same.

ah, okay. i misread you, then. apologies. :)

[Four is Enough]

This is why Jill should be in school pursuing a rigorous degree instead of having babies. She would love the socialization that school offers, and the amount of work it requires would keep her busy and on task. She strikes me as the teacher's pet "Hermione" type. She'd probably be going to Princeton or Duke if her stupid parents hadn't stunted her intellectual curiosity. :angry-banghead:

Do I think Jill could learn enough to be a lay midwife? Yes. Do I think a "rigorous" training, such as a master's in nursing, or an MD degree, is within her grasp? No. Here's why. I haven't seen Jill perform critical thinking and conclusion drawing in any way, shape, or form. She mouths platitudes and reassurances.

Do I think she's a kind and energetic birth-helper? Yes, if what she did for Anna is any demonstration.

Do I think she could teach a couple what signs to look for to send them straight to the hospital in a bad labor situation? Not sure. Don't think so.

ETA: This is why I'm glad she seems to have relinquished her studies. I don't really think she can do it.