"Getting to know you" only after marriage

[DGayle]

I was thinking a lot today about Jill and Derrick, and how Jill, before marriage, seemed a lot more outgoing and happy and free-spirited (to the extent she could be) and independent (again to the extent she could). But then she got married, moved out, and now is so clingy on Derrick that it makes ME feel suffocated.

 

Do you think that Jill, and other fundy women since they never get privacy and always have chaperones, know how they're likely to be? Like do you think Jill knew she would up clingy?

 

What do you think must go through the head of the husband who finds that the woman he thought he married is really very different once she's out of her parents' house?

 

I think it has to be scary to find out a side of yourself exists that you didn't know was there, and that it's got to be scary and frustrating for the husband to realize he couldn't possibly have known his wife as well as he thought he did.

[nst]

I am the first one to call Jill clingy - but maybe just maybe they discussed it all before they got married.. We are talking about the same woman who made Derick fill out a 4 page form on courtship - whose to say they didn't have the clingy discussion then.... :D

[Rescinded and Mended]

My guess is that Derick was a bit shocked due to so many changes happening so quickly, including a honeymoon baby, but it will get better over time. Jill will relax a bit more as they get more used to one another and the honeymoon period wears off, and of, course, she'll have babies to help keep her busy.

Apart from the way Jill was raised, she may not know how to cope outside of being a part of a collective family unit. I think it's good that she spends time with her sibling-children, and that she probably won't have any problem incorporating a new baby into her family structure. I have always gotten the impression that Jill thrives when she's busier and distracted.

[eh02]

I don't think it is fair that Jill gets called clingy just because she's the female in the relationship. There's no sign that Derick is acting any different than Jill, or that he doesn't enjoy her coming to lunch with him at work.

They just seem like two young people who are inexperienced in relationships and are maybe overly enthusiastic because it is new and exciting. I don't really think it's weird. I mean, I don't necessarily enjoy seeing all the cheesy photos, either, but I don't think any less of them for being very happy and wanting to share that.

I don't really know why people think Jill has changed much since being married, either. We've seen NOTHING of her married/pregnant life beyond a handful of IG pictures. And she didn't have an IG pre-engagement, so there's not really much of a reference point...

[Feberin]

I think it's mostly boredom right now not her personality. Jill has been changing diapers since she was six years old and cooking meals for a large family since she was at least thirteen (Duggar website talks about her making lunch for everyone at 13 but I doubt that was a new development). Not to mention cleaning and laundry work. When there was finally a break in the constant stream of babies coming into the house she started doing midwifery while still probably doing a lot of cooking, cleaning and childcare. Then she's planning a wedding and probably devoted a lot of time to it since she had the time with her break from her midwife training. But after the honeymoon she's married and has nothing much to do besides clean and cook for two people. Even having her siblings visit is probably a limited amount of activity since she's only having a few come over and none are very young. I think once she has a baby or two it'll keep her occupied and she'll become less clingy.

[Emme]

They're still in the phase of their relationship where you are slightly obsessed with each other and hang out all the time, I think. Most married couples are more settled because they've been together longer.

[DefrauderDaughter]

I definitely agree about Jill just being bored, not necessarily clingy. I would be bored too! With any character trait, it takes time to learn the intricacies of another person. She and Derick didn't know each other long enough to know how the other would act day after day, 24/7. Their likely still learning a lot about each other and will continue to for the next year or so.

[Cassia]

I don't think it is fair that Jill gets called clingy just because she's the female in the relationship. There's no sign that Derick is acting any different than Jill, or that he doesn't enjoy her coming to lunch with him at work.

They just seem like two young people who are inexperienced in relationships and are maybe overly enthusiastic because it is new and exciting. I don't really think it's weird. I mean, I don't necessarily enjoy seeing all the cheesy photos, either, but I don't think any less of them for being very happy and wanting to share that.

I don't really know why people think Jill has changed much since being married, either. We've seen NOTHING of her married/pregnant life beyond a handful of IG pictures. And she didn't have an IG pre-engagement, so there's not really much of a reference point...

I'm asking you this honestly and not in a snarky way - you really don't think its weird that Jill shows up at Derick's workplace and has lunch with him every day?

I honestly think that's bordering on crazy obsessive. To drive him to and from work daily, ok cool, no biggie. But to eat lunch with him AT WORK every day? I find that mortifying on Derick's behalf... If one of my co-workers had a wife who did this, I would be thinking, what the Hell is wrong with that woman?

[SassyPants]

Bored?

Why didn't she finish her requirements for the lay MW certification?

There's always an excuse for these people.

They lack basic self direction, motivation, work ethic.

[eh02]

Bored?

Why didn't she finish her requirements for the lay MW certification?

There's always an excuse for these people.

They lack basic self direction, motivation, work ethic.

Isn't 100% of her midwife training with Vanessa (Venessa? Vinessa?)? She can probably finish it, if she decides to finish it, whenever she wants. I don't really get people acting like she's just full of excuses - she hasn't given any excuse. Just because people here have speculated reasons why she's stopped, or if she's stopped for good at all, doesn't mean they're right. Jill's never SAID she's bored. She's never said she's totally given up on her lay midwife license, either. That's just people's guesses based purely off the almost nonexistent insight we've had into her life lately, which consists of, what, some instagram pictures? Maybe she's still deciding if she wants to continue with midwifery at all.

I'm asking you this honestly and not in a snarky way - you really don't think its weird that Jill shows up at Derick's workplace and has lunch with him every day?

I honestly think that's bordering on crazy obsessive. To drive him to and from work daily, ok cool, no biggie. But to eat lunch with him AT WORK every day? I find that mortifying on Derick's behalf... If one of my co-workers had a wife who did this, I would be thinking, what the Hell is wrong with that woman?

Honestly, I think it's pretty messed up that people act like Derick must be embarrassed of her. Derick has never given the slightest hint that he is embarrassed of Jill. And it's kind of obnoxious that people assume that she's driving him crazy, that he must be miserable with her, that he can't possibly love her how she is. HE chose Jill. And he seems perfectly happy with her. What's the big deal about eating lunch together when she lives right down the road? If I worked right next door to my SO I'd probably try to eat lunch with him, too. Not because I'd feel like I have to, but because I love him and enjoy being with him and would just be eating alone anyway. Is that really so weird?

[paintergurl]

Every day?

I think it's weird. And clingy. And how a 14 yr old w no sense of self would behave.

[HereticHick]

I have a coworker whose wife, who works in another building nearby, joins him for lunch EVERY day. And yes, lots of people find it weird & talk about it, since they commute together (and presumably eat breakfast & dinner together) and have no children. Doesn't Derick ever want to eat with a coworker? Or just read?

[HereticHick]

I was thinking a lot today about Jill and Derrick, and how Jill, before marriage, seemed a lot more outgoing and happy and free-spirited (to the extent she could be) and independent (again to the extent she could). But then she got married, moved out, and now is so clingy on Derrick that it makes ME feel suffocated.

Do you think that Jill, and other fundy women since they never get privacy and always have chaperones, know how they're likely to be? Like do you think Jill knew she would up clingy?

What do you think must go through the head of the husband who finds that the woman he thought he married is really very different once she's out of her parents' house?

I think it has to be scary to find out a side of yourself exists that you didn't know was there, and that it's got to be scary and frustrating for the husband to realize he couldn't possibly have known his wife as well as he thought he did.

This isn't an issue just for fundy Protestants--there are lots of conservative Hindu, Muslim & Jewish newlyweds who are discovering this every day!

[eh02]

I have a coworker whose wife, who works in another building nearby, joins him for lunch EVERY day. And yes, lots of people find it weird & talk about it, since they commute together (and presumably eat breakfast & dinner together) and have no children. Doesn't Derick ever want to eat with a coworker? Or just read?

Derick is a grown man. If Jill is bothering him, he can say something. I just do not understand everyone assuming Derick thinks Jill is some miserable woman who's so needy. He might be just as "clingy" as Jill is. He might love eating with her every day. Why does it matter if it is making them happy? I mean, no, I would not eat lunch with my SO every day. But they're not me. If it makes them happy, that is all that matters. Not whether their coworkers think it's weird. Their life won't be like this much longer, so they better enjoy it now.

[mostlylurk]

I'm asking you this honestly and not in a snarky way - you really don't think its weird that Jill shows up at Derick's workplace and has lunch with him every day?

I honestly think that's bordering on crazy obsessive. To drive him to and from work daily, ok cool, no biggie. But to eat lunch with him AT WORK every day? I find that mortifying on Derick's behalf... If one of my co-workers had a wife who did this, I would be thinking, what the Hell is wrong with that woman?

It WOULD be really weird in any other relationship, but Jill & Derrick didn't get unchaperoned dates, and they're going to have a baby before their 1st anniversary. It makes sense to me that they're making the most of the "short season" they get as a couple.

[16strong]

I'm sorry to all of you who don't think so, but Jill IS clingy. If she's showing up every day at Derick's work for lunch, that shows that she has absolutely nothing else to occupy her time, or she isn't interested in anything else occupying her time. She doesn't eat lunch with friends, and she could always eat lunch at her family's house or Jessa's house. It just doesn't seem like she does. Normal people get jobs and go for lunch dates with friends or coworkers. My own mother goes shopping sometimes during lunch with friends in addition to the aforementioned. Jill could go to the library, get a volunteer position, work on her lay midwifery, join a craft group, but she doesn't. All she does is spend time with Derick. He may be her husband, but that is still not healthy.

[eh02]

I'm sorry to all of you who don't think so, but Jill IS clingy. If she's showing up every day at Derick's work for lunch, that shows that she has absolutely nothing else to occupy her time, or she isn't interested in anything else occupying her time. She doesn't eat lunch with friends, and she could always eat lunch at her family's house or Jessa's house. It just doesn't seem like she does. Normal people get jobs and go for lunch dates with friends or coworkers. My own mother goes shopping sometimes during lunch with friends in addition to the aforementioned. Jill could go to the library, get a volunteer position, work on her lay midwifery, join a craft group, but she doesn't. All she does is spend time with Derick. He may be her husband, but that is still not healthy.

But this is where it loses me. How does anyone here know what she does every day?! She could eat lunch at Jessa's house? Why isn't anyone talking about Jessa being so useless and boring at home, then? What's Jessa out doing all day that Jill's not? Is there any difference between the two of them? I mean, I love to speculate about the Duggars, but people act like they know every. single. thing. about Jill's life. Should we seriously assume she literally does nothing but sit at home 23 1/2 hours a day just because we don't have photographic proof that she's got a hobby, or goes out to see a friend, or visits her family? Are we supposed to get 24/7 footage of her life so she can prove to us she's not sitting at home counting down the minutes until Derick comes home? People really think we should assume she is doing LITERALLY NOTHING at home just because we don't see it? It's absurd, IMO. She has no responsibility to update the public every time she feels like leaving the house.

I think people have really lost it with the Jill they've made up in their heads. She grates my nerves, but I really don't understand why people seem to single her out in particular, as if she shouldn't dare try to be happy in the best way she knows how.

[txmommyof4]

Shortly after my husband and I married we moved to Alaska. I was pregnant, knew no one, and neither did he. We lived on base and the hospital where he worked was about a mile and a half away. Every single day he came home for lunch. We weren't young or inexperienced, in fact we were both divorced. This lasted maybe a year. It tapered off from both ends. It would drive me crazy now, after 14 years of marriage, but then it was good for both of us. Anyway, if it continues forever it's a problem but maybe, just maybe, right now it isn't.

[Cassia]

But this is where it loses me. How does anyone here know what she does every day?! She could eat lunch at Jessa's house? Why isn't anyone talking about Jessa being so useless and boring at home, then? What's Jessa out doing all day that Jill's not? Is there any difference between the two of them? I mean, I love to speculate about the Duggars, but people act like they know every. single. thing. about Jill's life. Should we seriously assume she literally does nothing but sit at home 23 1/2 hours a day just because we don't have photographic proof that she's got a hobby, or goes out to see a friend, or visits her family? Are we supposed to get 24/7 footage of her life so she can prove to us she's not sitting at home counting down the minutes until Derick comes home? People really think we should assume she is doing LITERALLY NOTHING at home just because we don't see it? It's absurd, IMO. She has no responsibility to update the public every time she feels like leaving the house.

I think people have really lost it with the Jill they've made up in their heads. She grates my nerves, but I really don't understand why people seem to single her out in particular, as if she shouldn't dare try to be happy in the best way she knows how.

Jill said so herself in the interview that she and Jessa gave to that news station - that she drives Derick to and from work every day and that she has lunch with him every day.

Edited for clarity.

[Mrs Ms]

I don't get why people are all over Jill about driving him back and forth and having lunch with him. She is a submissive wife, which means Derrick makes the decisions. To me that would mean that HE is the one deciding that she should drive him around and join him for lunch.... Not clingy, but following orders!

[eh02]

Jill said so herself in the interview that she and Jessa gave to that news station - that she drives Derick to and from work every day and that she has lunch with him every day.

Edited for clarity.

...but what about the other 23 hours in the day? That's a very, very small piece of her time.

And you know, honestly, if all she DID want to do was sit at home and sleep every single day, I'd say she's probably earned it. I wouldn't be disappointed if she was on the couch eating bonbons every day. Maybe that'll give her some time to reflect on her fucked up family and how pissed she should be that her parents took advantage of her for free labor for so long.

[SassyPants]

Isn't 100% of her midwife training with Vanessa (Venessa? Vinessa?)? She can probably finish it, if she decides to finish it, whenever she wants. I don't really get people acting like she's just full of excuses - she hasn't given any excuse. Just because people here have speculated reasons why she's stopped, or if she's stopped for good at all, doesn't mean they're right. Jill's never SAID she's bored. She's never said she's totally given up on her lay midwife license, either. That's just people's guesses based purely off the almost nonexistent insight we've had into her life lately, which consists of, what, some instagram pictures? Maybe she's still deciding if she wants to continue with midwifery at all.

Honestly, I think it's pretty messed up that people act like Derick must be embarrassed of her. Derick has never given the slightest hint that he is embarrassed of Jill. And it's kind of obnoxious that people assume that she's driving him crazy, that he must be miserable with her, that he can't possibly love her how she is. HE chose Jill. And he seems perfectly happy with her. What's the big deal about eating lunch together when she lives right down the road? If I worked right next door to my SO I'd probably try to eat lunch with him, too. Not because I'd feel like I have to, but because I love him and enjoy being with him and would just be eating alone anyway. Is that really so weird?

According to the state of AR (as of 9/1/14), Jill has not completed the book/testing part of the certification process either- which is not field work, but totally on Jill.

[eh02]

According to the state of AR (as of 9/1/14), Jill has not completed the book/testing part of the certification process either- which is not field work, but totally on Jill.

Is there a timeline for that? A limit for how long it has to be between your actual logged hours training and your exam? If she was approaching a time limit, I think it'd be safe to assume she is not planning on pursuing midwifery anymore. Which is fine, really, if that is what she decided to do, if her family would just shut up and stop calling her a midwife.

For now, my guess is she's just taking her time because she has nothing at all forcing her to rush. It's not like she needs the money. Plus, I still stand by thinking they could do something weird and over the top like turn some of that house into a birthing center and do a "business" with Vanessa, or, God forbid, even turn something like that into another show. I'm still suspicious of Jim Bob putting them in that enormous house. I know Jill's a favorite and all, but Jim Bob's also a cheapass, and he could probably be making a big chunk of money renting that place out to someone else. And Jim Bob would just loooove the tax break on that house if they made some of it into any sort of work space. Anyway, the whole situation is just weird, and goes to show how little we know of what's probably really going on. That house could probably bring in $20k+ a year in rent, even in Arkansas. That's a lot to drop on Jill, even if she's the favorite. It still is a bit off and not Duggarlike at all to me, especially because we clearly know Jim Bob has no plans to sell that house anytime soon like he tried to make us believe.

[SassyPants]

Is there a timeline for that? A limit for how long it has to be between your actual logged hours training and your exam? If she was approaching a time limit, I think it'd be safe to assume she is not planning on pursuing midwifery anymore. Which is fine, really, if that is what she decided to do, if her family would just shut up and stop calling her a midwife.

For now, my guess is she's just taking her time because she has nothing at all forcing her to rush. It's not like she needs the money. Plus, I still stand by thinking they could do something weird and over the top like turn some of that house into a birthing center and do a "business" with Vanessa, or, God forbid, even turn something like that into another show. I'm still suspicious of Jim Bob putting them in that enormous house. I know Jill's a favorite and all, but Jim Bob's also a cheapass, and he could probably be making a big chunk of money renting that place out to someone else. And Jim Bob would just loooove the tax break on that house if they made some of it into any sort of work space. Anyway, the whole situation is just weird, and goes to show how little we know of what's probably really going on. That house could probably bring in $20k+ a year in rent, even in Arkansas. That's a lot to drop on Jill, even if she's the favorite. It still is a bit off and not Duggarlike at all to me, especially because we clearly know Jim Bob has no plans to sell that house anytime soon like he tried to make us believe.

INDEED!

[Bethella]

Is there a timeline for that? A limit for how long it has to be between your actual logged hours training and your exam? If she was approaching a time limit, I think it'd be safe to assume she is not planning on pursuing midwifery anymore. Which is fine, really, if that is what she decided to do, if her family would just shut up and stop calling her a midwife.

For now, my guess is she's just taking her time because she has nothing at all forcing her to rush. It's not like she needs the money. Plus, I still stand by thinking they could do something weird and over the top like turn some of that house into a birthing center and do a "business" with Vanessa, or, God forbid, even turn something like that into another show. I'm still suspicious of Jim Bob putting them in that enormous house. I know Jill's a favorite and all, but Jim Bob's also a cheapass, and he could probably be making a big chunk of money renting that place out to someone else. And Jim Bob would just loooove the tax break on that house if they made some of it into any sort of work space. Anyway, the whole situation is just weird, and goes to show how little we know of what's probably really going on. That house could probably bring in $20k+ a year in rent, even in Arkansas. That's a lot to drop on Jill, even if she's the favorite. It still is a bit off and not Duggarlike at all to me, especially because we clearly know Jim Bob has no plans to sell that house anytime soon like he tried to make us believe.

Yes, there is a two year time limit on the apprentice permit but it can be renewed. Both Jill and Jana have renewed their permits once already and their current permits will expire at the end of August 2015. Based on the criteria below and the evidence we have it does not appear that Jill is making progress towards licensure.

The Apprentice Permit must be renewed every two years. To renew the permit,the Apprentice shall submit evidence of:

1. Progress made toward licensure that year, i.e. number of AP visits conducted, labor managements and deliveries, newborn evaluations and post-partum exams conducted under supervision.

2. Verification of Apprentice-Supervisor relationship

3. Current adult and infant CPR

4. Negative TB skin test, negative chest x-ray, or valid health card