Lori and Ken: The Big Ball of Crazy -Multiple Merges

[FundieWatcher]

Yeah I went to a vocational high school. I became a certified nurse's aide. My senior year I worked in a bunch of differ areas of the hospital for high school credits. They also had an EMT program, auto body, agriculture, horticulture, and some type of construction program. Now a days there are more choices, they have LPN, barber and, believe or not, aviation mechanic.

[KittenMitten]

Well, I think Lori wants Biblical trade schools. Perhaps Noah's School of Shipbuilding and Ship Repair or Moses School of GPS programming. Maybe Disciple Luke Medical Coding Program and last but not least Matthew's CPA Training for IRS Service.

[salex]

In olden days when I was in HS, our area had vo-tech that included diesal mechanics so some of the guys who were going to farm took those classes, other friends took secretarial or got the first couple of years of Plumbing, etc.

When Obama brought up free Community College, I know I was sort of amazed that I heard no one pointing out that many community colleges (at least around here) offer everything from cooking and restaurant/hotel management to beautician to automotive repair and plumbing or other construction type work, among many others (some nursing, dental hygiene, welding, etc)

Given how much the republicans in our state have been pushing for more of this kind of education and downplaying 4 year degrees, it was proof that partisanship was more important than supporting what they said they wanted.

Our county has a good community college that offers both 4 year college transfer classes and a lot of career training and certification options.

[chosenone]

I went to a trade school at the age of 29 to be a electrician, the only difference between those real trade schools and those biblical ones was simply this, I had meters that told me that the power to a 25,000 volt cable was off where in the biblical one ,you simply have to take a leap of faith and pray its shutoff,, does she ever think , I mean,, she has to pat answers, one,, that's an exception, and 2,,, I have been mentoring for 10 years,, both are wrong Lori

[chosenone]

One other thought,, I know Kenny is a staunch conservative,, but in my part of the country, the Unions offer apprentice programs in most of the trades,, you start out at 65% of the hourly rate and increase each year till you become a journeyman >

[feministxtian]

One other thought,, I know Kenny is a staunch conservative,, but in my part of the country, the Unions offer apprentice programs in most of the trades,, you start out at 65% of the hourly rate and increase each year till you become a journeyman >

My son is a 3rd year Electrician's apprentice. Yeah...the kid makes BANK! He went off to Job Corps for a year for pre-apprenticeship training then came back and joined the union apprentice school.

An RN degree is an AAS degree (2 year) that usually takes three years because of clinicals.

My first degree was an AS that paid over 40K/yr

The CCs here in Sin City offer a 2 year Culinary Arts with job placement to apprentice under the big shit chefs in the casinos.

ASE certification is a 2 year program...the one I'm thinking of is sponsored by Ford.

Folks just don't get how useful a free AA degree can be in terms of financial health!

Just call me a staunch defender of the CC system.

[chosenone]

I did the 4yr apprentice program through local 5 out of Pittsburgh,, you were taught the right way of doing things,, worked out of that local for 30 years ,, good times

[lilwriter85]

I find it interesting that no one commented on Lori's posting about trade schools or public schools teaching trade classes. But then again, someone could have left a comment about it and of course, Lori wouldn't let go through.

[chosenone]

To get from point A to point B in Loris world means a straight line with no turns, so,,Trade schools in her mind are associated with Public schools ,, so therefore there evil,,

[Loveday]

Considering what's going on in California and other states right now in regards to the measles, Lori felt the need to add a link to the end of yesterday's post. Backpedaling on her anti-vax stance? Urging parents to get the MMR into their kids pronto? :think:

Surely you jest. This is Lori, who is Never Learning. :roll: The link leads to yet another (very long and very 'scholarly'-looking) anti-vax article. :angry-banghead:

[2xx1xy1JD]

I hate to admit this....but I actually agreed with a lot of her Little Boys post (although I can't figure out if she honestly doesn't know that trade programs exist or if she just writes really badly).

Kindergarten was NOT a good time for my son. I do think it's unnatural to expect young children, particularly little boys, to sit still for longer periods of time. (I'm not being sexist, and know that some girls have the same issue. Objectively, though, I've noticed that little boys are more prone spending time getting into trouble at school, the language skills develop slightly later, and they get a testesterone surge around age 4.) My area has moved to full-day kindergarten and expects that children will be reading by the time they enter grade 1. The age cut-off for the grade is Dec. 31, so that means that in some cases, a 5.5 year old boy is required to be reading and will fall behind if he can't.

[calimojo]

I hate to admit this....but I actually agreed with a lot of her Little Boys post (although I can't figure out if she honestly doesn't know that trade programs exist or if she just writes really badly).

Kindergarten was NOT a good time for my son. I do think it's unnatural to expect young children, particularly little boys, to sit still for longer periods of time. (I'm not being sexist, and know that some girls have the same issue. Objectively, though, I've noticed that little boys are more prone spending time getting into trouble at school, the language skills develop slightly later, and they get a testesterone surge around age 4.) My area has moved to full-day kindergarten and expects that children will be reading by the time they enter grade 1. The age cut-off for the grade is Dec. 31, so that means that in some cases, a 5.5 year old boy is required to be reading and will fall behind if he can't.

Years ago, I think Kindergarten was optional and kids weren't required to be in school until 1st grade.

Full day kindergarten is a lot for some kids.

[feministxtian]

If I had it to do over again...I think I would have kept my boys home, "homeschooling" until they were closer to 2nd-3rd grade age. Neither one was anywhere near ready for the sort of structure/discipline that school required.

Personally, I think there's a better way to educate our kids. Not all kids learn the same way. Schools are biased towards auditory learners (teacher lectures, students listen). I am not an auditory learner, neither are my kids. Lectures are torture, eventually it becomes nothing more than an annoying buzz. My boys are the type of learners that need to see it, touch it, taste it, roll in it. My daughter and I are more visual learners. Its torture in school.

I don't know what the answer is...but the current system seems to be missing a lot of kids.

[lilwriter85]

I hate to admit this....but I actually agreed with a lot of her Little Boys post (although I can't figure out if she honestly doesn't know that trade programs exist or if she just writes really badly).

Kindergarten was NOT a good time for my son. I do think it's unnatural to expect young children, particularly little boys, to sit still for longer periods of time. (I'm not being sexist, and know that some girls have the same issue. Objectively, though, I've noticed that little boys are more prone spending time getting into trouble at school, the language skills develop slightly later, and they get a testesterone surge around age 4.) My area has moved to full-day kindergarten and expects that children will be reading by the time they enter grade 1. The age cut-off for the grade is Dec. 31, so that means that in some cases, a 5.5 year old boy is required to be reading and will fall behind if he can't.

I'm still wondering about that. But I wouldn't be surprised if she is somehow unaware of trade programs/schools. One of my relatives was a beautician and she encountered a few people during her career who actually thought that beauticians, barbers, and others in that field were people who just went and applied for jobs at salons, barbershops, and nail places and were trained on the job. She said a few people didn't realize or even know that about training/apprenticeship and certification/licensing to work in salons and barbershops.

[Hane]

Years ago, I think Kindergarten was optional and kids weren't required to be in school until 1st grade.

Yes. When I was a kid in the '50s-'60s, kindergarten was optional here in Connecticut, although most kids went. The Catholic parochial schools didn't offer kindergarten, so a few of the parents sent their kids to public kindergarten and switched them to Catholic school for first grade. Come to think of it, my cousin from New York came to visit and attended kindergarten with me while he was up here. We were the same age, but he was in first grade (depending on who told you, he was either a genius or his father bribed the priest to get him in early). He thought kindergarten was bizarre.

Here's where I prevent myself from going into a full-out rant against pushing kindergarten (and preschool!) kids into learning to read. True, some very young kids do learn to read, and with little prompting--but most don't. (PIAGET, people!!!) My two classmates who entered first grade knowing how to read turned out to be good students, but wound up no better off academically than the rest of us.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Kindergarten is still technically optional here in CA. Compulsory attendance starts at age 6/first grade.

I really like that our school is still half day kindergarten. 3.5 hours.

Lori supports vaccines?? I have to go read that one.

[Loveday]

Kindergarten is still technically optional here in CA. Compulsory attendance starts at age 6/first grade.

I really like that our school is still half day kindergarten. 3.5 hours.

Lori supports vaccines?? I have to go read that one.

No, no, quite the opposite. She's just as militantly opposed as ever. :?

[dairyfreelife]

I must admit that I am quite surprised at the number of places that still do not have all day Kindergarten available. Attendance is not compulsory until age 6, so first grade, but basically everyone sends their children to kindergarten. It's been all-day in my home state since I started school (started all-day the year I started school back in the early 90s). Before that it was half-day. I think it varies really. With the increasing number of single-parent homes and two-income families, it is quite beneficial for them. It is also much more budget-friendly for the school system. It is also free to everyone. I have seen places that charge parents for Kindergarten in the U.S and also charge for buses too in some areas. That still :o

I do not think I benefited from all-day Kindergarten. I did not have a good teacher. She got stuck teaching the grade, but did not like that age group. She preferred upper level grades and it showed in her unhappiness. I was also a very shy child and it was a lot for me. Education-wise I was fine. There was never a question of me going on to first grade, but I know that there are a number of children who stay behind an extra year in Prekindergarten or Kindergarten. Mostly related to maturity. Sometimes it is academics, but it often seems maturity is the real issue. And this is especially true for children born in the summer months. The majority of children I know who were held back those early years were born in June, July, or August. Not all obviously, but a large number. And this is because they were the youngest ones. My sister's birthday is in September, so she missed the cut-off date by just days and my parents waited until the next year to start her in school. She was one of the oldest. She had a friend who's birthday was in August. Almost one month apart in age, but because of the cut-off she was a grade ahead and did have issues with maturity and separation when she started school. She was one of the youngest in her grade. She has just turned five two weeks before school started and then there were a few in her grade who were going to be six in about two weeks. So, that can be an issue. At that age, one year can make a huge difference in maturity and growth.

I know some people whine about why schools are segregated by age and how it's not like the real world and all that, but there's a reason for the age separation for children and not for adults. Children, especially young children, mature very fast. One year, as I said, can make a huge difference. I have seen it make a huge difference. There's a marked difference between your average five-year-old and your average seven-year-old. The same with the average seven-year-old and your average nine-year-old and again a difference between nine and eleven and eleven and thirteen and thirteen and fifteen and fifteen and seventeen and seventeen and nineteen. Even when a five-year-old has the academics of an eight-year-old, the emotional and mental maturity is not of an eight-year-old. The social maturity is not the same as an eight-year-old, so you really cannot throw a five-year-old into a group of eight-year-olds just because they can read at their level and do the math at the same rate. But you don't want to hold back their intelligence either. This does put schools in a tough spot, which is why many places have gifted programs for such children.

Yes, I do think schools can expect a lot from children that they may not be ready to handle, but I also think that children can learn and should be learning from a young age. Not all parents can help or are willing to help teach their children things, so schools with preschool programs and free education for children can make a major difference in their lives. Can we do better with the school system? Absolutely. We can be doing much, much better.

However, I do not expect Lori to understand any of the complications of life or education or anything about poverty in the U.S or how in my home state roughly 50% of children will not graduate high school on time if at all. Almost 50% will drop out of school at some point during high school. That's terrible. A lot of it has to do with economics along with academic struggles and most live in rural areas. But I do not expect her to understand that. I do not expect her to understand that the parents cannot teach their children because they are barely literate themselves. They can't homeschool. They do not have the means or ability to do so. But Lori will not understand that. Lori only understands Lori and Lori's world. She cannot comprehend anything outside of that world. Sad, but they do say ignorance is bliss. If you believe everyone has as much as you do or could if they just wanted to have what you have, then the concepts of millions of starving people and people living without clean water or any medical care living in depleted shacks and no electricity or educational options or children without loving families to care for them or wars or terrorism or all the other terrible things in the world are lost on you and you do not have to think about them or feel for them. You can just pretend they do not exist. It's easier that way.

[happy atheist]

Onward to part 2: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=24907