Ken Alexander: Homosexuality is the worst of sins

[FloraKitty35]

If starvation is so great why haven't Ken & Lori done it yet?

[Snarkangel Gabriel]

Sad that anyone thinks something that means and does no harm to others is the worst of sins.

[BrownieMomma]

So you think since same sex marriage has only been legal in the West recently that being gay is a sin? Or am I missing a leap in logic there?

What *I* think, not church doctrine, is that being gay is not a sin. Having a homosexual sexual relationship is a sin.

[dairyfreelife]

I genuinely mean no disrespect, but could please explain this?

Same. I am confused as to what Sol means. No disrespect either. Just can't make sense of what s/he is trying to say.

[GolightlyGrrl]

If starvation is so great why haven't Ken & Lori done it yet?

Sir Bob Geldof, Bono, the late Audrey Hepburn, various programs and people who aid the hungry throughout the world (including the USA) should get together and beat the living tar out of Lori and Ken.

[FoxyMoxie]

Same. I am confused as to what Sol means. No disrespect either. Just can't make sense of what s/he is trying to say.

I thought that maybe Sol and their wife are both genderqueer? In my experience that comes under the trans umbrella though. Sol, could you please explain?

[FoxyMoxie]

This is absolutely the first I've heard of same-sex marriage in ancient times. I would have to read a lot more before I'm convinced that's true.

I thought it was common knowledge about homosexuality amongst Greeks and Romans, but marriage was never part of that.

It is only in modern Western civilization that marriage is about romance. Usually marriage has been far more like a business with the overriding goal of producing children. It had other reasons, such as political alliances and such.

Whether you needed a son to inherit the kingdom, or a bunch of kids to work the fields, generally children were desired for very practical reasons. Since children would not result from a same-sex marriage, why would it have ever been a usual practice? It doesn't make sense.

I'll be keeping my eyes open for more info. Maybe I'll pop over to the history dept where some of my professors still teach and chat 'em up.

Greek and Roman same-gender practices were not really about homosexuality as an orientation - the men (and it was only acceptable amongst men) involved would probably not consider themselves gay nowadays. It was purely a power exchange. Romantic relationships between same-gender couples was not visible in the same way, but marriages of sorts did happen. However, by antiquity I'm not just talking about Greece and Rome - they're not the only ancient civilisations. Egyptians, Persians, Indians and Mesoamericans all had some recognition of same-gender relationships/marriage. Oh, and the centurion and his servant (pais) that Jesus healed? They were lovers. If they'd been sinning Jesus would have, you know, mentioned that.

Once Christianity took off, celibate religious life was more common and this is where most same-gender relationships happened. These people were not going to have children anyway, and had neither money/goods to be inherited nor needed children to work in the fields. We know that some nuns had wives, and there are stories of marriages between early saints of the same gender. Also, you're wrong about romantic love only being a recent reason for marriage - marriage amongst the nobility was primarily for dynastic reasons, but most poor people married for love since they had nothing for anyone to inherit.

[DGayle]

Not just homosexuality, but fornication. I don't think the Bible ever says masturbation but that's kind of assumed, at least the way I've always heard it.

Onan was ordered to impregnate his dead brother's wife, and he withdrew, spilling his seed on the ground, which pissed off God. Instead of saying God was pissed his order was disobeyed, someone at some time decided this meant that masturbation is bad since it spills seed too. Women don't have seed, so I don't know why it's also a sin for us. I guess no fun for us if a man isn't getting some too?

[DGayle]

Oh and this...

This verse puts sexual sins on the same level with greed and drunkenness and slanderers and swindlers.

I disagree with Ken, mere woman that I am. I think adultery is far more destructive, esp to children, as they are often affected with their lives in turmoil from parental adultery. Homosexual sin does not even produce children, therefore the impact is lesser, really it only impacts the two people involved who are presumably adults capable of making of their own decisions and choices.

So you don't know that gay couples can adopt in some states, and use surrogates if they're men, and use artificial insemination if they're women? Gay-sex won't result in natural conception, but gay couples can still have kids.

[BrownieMomma]

Onan was ordered to impregnate his dead brother's wife, and he withdrew, spilling his seed on the ground, which pissed off God. Instead of saying God was pissed his order was disobeyed, someone at some time decided this meant that masturbation is bad since it spills seed too. Women don't have seed, so I don't know why it's also a sin for us. I guess no fun for us if a man isn't getting some too?

That's a given.

[browncoatslytherin]

Sir Bob Geldof, Bono, the late Audrey Hepburn, various programs and people who aid the hungry throughout the world (including the USA) should get together and beat the living tar out of Lori and Ken.

don't forget sally struthers!

[lawlifelgbt]

If it is a sin, worst or not..

Well, I really, really love my wife. The mere fact that I'd have to spend eternity without her, no matter where I was, would be hell.

So I'd rather be in hell, as long as I could be with her. Heaven, forever, alone, would be hell.

[ILoveJellybeans]

So, Lori and Ken.....if you think that starvation is an easy death, why not fast for a few days with nothing but water to keep you going. You would feel like absolute shit by the end of it, and imagine how much worse it would be to keep on doing it and doing it and letting it get worse until you die.

[Reverend Ladypants]

I wrote a whole thesis on this shit and you'd think I'd never get tired of talking about it except I am

Ken, swallow your tongue and get over yourself. I'm not an abomination and the kids are bloody alright.

I still go between rolling my eyes (We're still talking about this?) to being angry (stop being a dick!) to just plain sad (This guy must have a really shitty God to think God is such an ass, thereby being an ass himself).

[Burris]

So, Lori and Ken.....if you think that starvation is an easy death, why not fast for a few days with nothing but water to keep you going. You would feel like absolute shit by the end of it, and imagine how much worse it would be to keep on doing it and doing it and letting it get worse until you die.

Voluntarily? Hmmm...

Ken and Lori like to feed their own persecution fantasies, so I'll go one further:

How would they feel if they were imprisoned, given 600 calories a day - or less at times when the single daily meal of soup consisted mostly of boiling hot water which prisoners would be given 90 seconds (according to a guard's stop-watch) to finish.

Or of course there's the humiliation of having to walk around, heads bowed, hands behind back, and responding to guards with, ‘Yes, Ms./ Mr. [Name of ethnic group running the camp].

You see, the starving Christian in North Korea's prisons may *shudder* actually have it as bad as the prisoners who where being systematically killed as part of an "ethic cleansing" (God how I detest that term, in any language) operation.

Then let Ken and Lori be separated; any sons over 16 were considered possible partisans and summarily executed.

Ah yes, Ken is much man. I wonder how long that would last if someone put a pistol muzzle in his mouth and then beat the living shit out of him - while leaving the muzzle in place. (That was a Tadic favourite, if I remember right. Ziga and Krkan were even more...imaginative.)

Ken, Lori - Want to know what the guards would say while they tortured or raped? No?

Too bad:"We know who you are. And we‘re going to get your kids, too."

Why am I writing this? Because I started thinking - all the gays who've been physically bashed. All the dead of there ridiculous distinctions.

Here you go, fundies. Here's the perspective you SHOULD have.

MERRY FUCKING CHRISTMAS!

Ken and Robert and PP, for all their talk of persecution really might kill gay people, or brown people.

That's why PP denies the Nazi holocaust. It's why Ken soothes himself with that crap about starvation being a decent way to die:

Because the...the...the cognitive dissonance between claiming Christians are being persecuted in the US when someone wishes them happy holidays, when held up against their own avowed desire to truly persecute gays and other minorities:, and mixed in with news of Christians who are actually persecuted - well, trying to fit those thoughts together would break their tiny brains.

[salex]

Riddle me this, people:

Let's assume that many people who rail against homosexuality are 100% straight. (STOP LAUGHING! I'm trying to make a point here!) Then why is it that they are so dead-set against something they, personally, have absolutely no tendency towards and absolutely no desire to do?

My thought on this is that for the churches who are most anti-gay, who preach on it the most and who would never welcome an openly practicing gay person in their midst.... preach on this (and therefore magnify the importance of being anti gay to their congregations) because it is one sermon that will not impact the collection plate.

1/3 of women (more or less) have had abortions (and that means a lot of men have been involved in abortion as well) Adultery, divorce and remarriage? Yeah, that is as high or higher in some churches than in the general population. Lying? lusting? Sure those are standards, but again, annoying to hear too often or if you sometimes lie or lust. :D

But, population wise, especially in these types of churches, the demographics would mean that fewer people would be offended enough to stop donating.

I view a lot of the anti gay rhetoric as selected as a way to still be "Hell and Brimstone" to a mass audience, that gives the audience the H&B show, gives them the nice warm feeling of not being at risk of being damned for being Gay and keeps the money rolling in.

Does that seem cynical? :?

[Idolatry]

My thought on this is that for the churches who are most anti-gay, who preach on it the most and who would never welcome an openly practicing gay person in their midst.... preach on this (and therefore magnify the importance of being anti gay to their congregations) because it is one sermon that will not impact the collection plate.

1/3 of women (more or less) have had abortions (and that means a lot of men have been involved in abortion as well) Adultery, divorce and remarriage? Yeah, that is as high or higher in some churches than in the general population. Lying? lusting? Sure those are standards, but again, annoying to hear too often or if you sometimes lie or lust. :D

But, population wise, especially in these types of churches, the demographics would mean that fewer people would be offended enough to stop donating.

I view a lot of the anti gay rhetoric as selected as a way to still be "Hell and Brimstone" to a mass audience, that gives the audience the H&B show, gives them the nice warm feeling of not being at risk of being damned for being Gay and keeps the money rolling in.

Does that seem cynical? :?

I think I agree to an extent. When pp is screaming about Jews or Obama, there's no one there or in the YouTube fan gallery to offend. Harder when he's telling you the biblical chore chart practically no one follows. Again.

But the Maxwells aren't running a church right? So this unbiblical ranking of sins (very catholic concept btw) doesn't seem to have a purpose to me except to reflect the Maxwell's own issues with the gays.

[nelliebelle1197]

Oh and this...

This verse puts sexual sins on the same level with greed and drunkenness and slanderers and swindlers.

I disagree with Ken, mere woman that I am. I think adultery is far more destructive, esp to children, as they are often affected with their lives in turmoil from parental adultery. Homosexual sin does not even produce children, therefore the impact is lesser, really it only impacts the two people involved who are presumably adults capable of making of their own decisions and choices.

Homosexuality is not a sin, it is not destructive to anyone, it is not a choice, it does produce children and you once again are proving you are a bigot.

[jerkit]

Someone on Lori's FB page just posted this:

Lori, I know you really like the Duggars. I do also. However this article kind of made me think a little. Can you tell me your thoughts about it? Obviously I know you support the Pearls' teachings so you won't have issue with that, but what about the rest of it? Interested to hear your thoughts. patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/2012/02/carefully-scripted-lives-the-real-reality-of-the-duggar-family-blessings/

I'm going to be obsessively refreshing until she deletes it or answers.

[formergothardite]

Homosexuality is not a sin, it is not destructive to anyone, it is not a choice, it does produce children and you once again are proving you are a bigot.

If it is a sin that only impacts the two consenting adults and the impact it makes is to make their lives better, is it really a sin? What sort of God would make good things sinful?

[BrownieMomma]

Homosexuality is not a sin, it is not destructive to anyone, it is not a choice, it does produce children and you once again are proving you are a bigot.

idk how old you are or how educated you are, but once you reduce yourself to namecalling, you've lost all credibility.

You could have easily made your points without resorting to calling me an ugly name. This is a heated, controversial topic and I don't see anyone else in the entire thread namecalling the other posters.

Life Lessons 101. Be taken seriously by being respectful to others with whom you disagree, especially if they are respectful to you.

ETA: Quote from Eleanor Roosevelt

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

[salex]

I think I agree to an extent. When pp is screaming about Jews or Obama, there's no one there or in the YouTube fan gallery to offend. Harder when he's telling you the biblical chore chart practically no one follows. Again.

But the Maxwells aren't running a church right? So this unbiblical ranking of sins (very catholic concept btw) doesn't seem to have a purpose to me except to reflect the Maxwell's own issues with the gays.

It could be their own issue or what they learned from the last churcg they liked but it is fb or all you mentio ed pary of their Jesus selli message. Pp no doubt wants his utube viewers to help pay his way. Ted Haggard erote books about selling Jesus like toothpaste and anti gay rhetoric is the current hot flavr. Toss in that in the usa christian s have to work to find ways to be oppressed so when the government changes laws that make them feel less in complete control that is wort a few sermons book sales and specil donations. And some are preaching against what they desire. (See also Ted Haggard) of course I people like ken may be j

[BrownieMomma]

My thought on this is that for the churches who are most anti-gay, who preach on it the most and who would never welcome an openly practicing gay person in their midst.... preach on this (and therefore magnify the importance of being anti gay to their congregations) because it is one sermon that will not impact the collection plate.

1/3 of women (more or less) have had abortions (and that means a lot of men have been involved in abortion as well) Adultery, divorce and remarriage? Yeah, that is as high or higher in some churches than in the general population. Lying? lusting? Sure those are standards, but again, annoying to hear too often or if you sometimes lie or lust. :D

But, population wise, especially in these types of churches, the demographics would mean that fewer people would be offended enough to stop donating.

I view a lot of the anti gay rhetoric as selected as a way to still be "Hell and Brimstone" to a mass audience, that gives the audience the H&B show, gives them the nice warm feeling of not being at risk of being damned for being Gay and keeps the money rolling in.

Does that seem cynical? :?

I think there's probably a lot of truth to that. In that same vein, I never hear gluttony preached about. Too many fat Americans I think, including a lot of preachers. My last SBC preacher had a huge gut. He would sweat profusely, I used to worry he was gonna have a heart attack.

[formergothardite]

idk how old you are or how educated you are, but once you reduce yourself to namecalling, you've lost all credibility.

You could have easily made your points without resorting to calling me an ugly name. This is a heated, controversial topic and I don't see anyone else in the entire thread namecalling the other posters.

Life Lessons 101. Be taken seriously by being respectful to others with whom you disagree, especially if they are respectful to you.

ETA: Quote from Eleanor Roosevelt

You are telling the gay people here who are in relationships they are sinners. That isn't respectful anymore than telling a person in an interracial relationship that they are wrong and sinning.

[nelliebelle1197]

idk how old you are or how educated you are, but once you reduce yourself to namecalling, you've lost all credibility.

You could have easily made your points without resorting to calling me an ugly name. This is a heated, controversial topic and I don't see anyone else in the entire thread namecalling the other posters.

Life Lessons 101. Be taken seriously by being respectful to others with whom you disagree, especially if they are respectful to you.

ETA: Quote from Eleanor Roosevelt

I am older and incredibly well educated, dear. I have lived and traveled all over the world, and I have all sorts of friends with various backgrounds or who were not born straight, white Chrisitians with a narrow world view. I have seen several posts from you tinged with or blatant about your racism and homophobia. Have you forgotten what you posted in the homeschool thread? I have not. You even knew it was racist because you said you did not care if you sounded racist. I do not find racism or homophobia respectful. I do not find deeming people sinful because of who they are or less than you because of their culture or circumstances of birth respectful.

Respect is earned and Free Jinger is not a place where you are entitled to opinion without others challenging it or finding it abhorrent. Hating the sin but not the sinner is the one of the biggest loads of bigoted hypocrisy the modern Christianist movement has foisted upon us, and I, for one, won't dance around my disgust.