Ladies - Why do you hook-up?

[fundiefan]

I don't regret any 'hook ups', however they're defined by anyone.

The biggest regret I do have is getting married. So, how does that work? How can my emotions and confusion explain any of that? I was much happier before I married and had different sex partners when I wanted them. I am much happier now and I haven't had sex in three years, because that is what I've chosen.

The way I view sex in general is not at all how many others, and far too much of society in general, see it. I don't attach anything moral to it. Before Christianity, sex was not shameful. 'The Church' attached shame to it and tried to regulate it and it has had consequences that I view as appalling. Sex is a basic, instinctive function of being humans - of all animals. The drive, the desire, the need; the feelings involved, physical and emotional.

Multiple partners, one partner, whatever choice you make is the 'right' sex life for you. Your choices, and what emotions and morals you attach to it are yours alone. The life I lived that included one specific sex partner was a miserable life that I regret and it had nothing to do with sex. Maybe one day I won't regret it; maybe I'll make peace with it. But, right now, I would go back and re-do all I did before I got married before I'd even consider going back to being married.

[Turtle]

Ugh. Don Miller. I think he wants to be seen as more "progressive" but under the rhetoric, its the same old nonsense.

I do think that "why do people have sex?" is an interesting question. Sexuality is such an intregal aspect of humanity, and our views about sex are shaped by the society we live in. But I don't think I'd care to discuss it with Don Miller, considering the condescending way he poses the question. He isn't asking, he wants answers that fit with the stereotype he already has in his mind.

[Joykins]

I don't regret whatever sexual experience I had in the past. I don't think it has negatively affected my marriage at all. The things which have been problems in my marriage have been completely unrelated to that--I would say any problems we ever have are more in the area of social life, finances, communication styles, and health issues (which sounds like a lot but we're actually doing fine).

Of course one big difference between me and someone seeing Doc. Sharon for counseling is that I'm not seeing anyone for counseling. I also wasn't heavily brainwashed into thinking I MUST feel guilty about sexual things--yes, I did have a religious background but my parents allowed me the freedom to explore any ideas I wanted, so I was reading about the zipless fuck at 19.

[kb2]

If more women regret multiple partners than one partner, which is totally possible, I would guess it's a logical reason: you can always add experiences, but you can never subtract them.

This.

Human identity and relationships are much more complex than PIV: yes/no. If you're hooking up because you have low self-esteem and you think some loser is all you can get, then you're probably more likely to regret it. If you're marrying as a virgin because you have low self-esteem and you think some loser is all you can get, then you're probably more likely to regret it. Going into either situation feeling good about yourself and in control of the situation is going to make it much more likely you'll look back and think, "Ahh, good times."

[Witsec1]

I don't know, given that women are half the human race, and more than half of professing Christians, I would say being totally progressive on everything else BUT gender is like being completely clean except for your skin.

:clap: :lol:

[antifundie]

I read the blog posts in question a while back, and I didn't like them. Which is too bad, since I liked "Blue Like Jazz"--but "why do women hook up?" Really? It could be a bazillion reasons. For fun? Maybe you like the guy? Maybe you just want to get laid? Sure, sometimes your self-esteem can take a hit, but sometimes it's empowering. Hopefully a woman is smart enough to make those kinds of decisions for herself.

Interesting, though--I can't find any evidence that he is married (he was born 1971, so he's old enough) or that he has children. However, he's on Obama's Task Force on Fatherhood and Healthy Families, although I see 0 evidence that he has children. All that is according to Wikipedia, so it could be wrong, but I find no mention of a wife or kids on his website or Facebook page. Hmmmm.

[titus2_4u]

He's engaged. No kids.

[Olive Plant]

So I feel like I have a perspective that is probably more common on here than in many circles. I waited until I got married to have sex, and it was bad. And I knew it was bad, and resented the fact that my ex had previously had multiple partners and I was stuck with him. After the divorce, I had fairly casual sex partners for quite awhile. Only one one-time "hook-up," but that was pretty dang good; some of the best sex I'd ever had. All in all, at least so far, I've had the best sex from casual encounters, and one longer-term buddy in particular. There's a lot to be said for casual sex, especially if you're coming out of a relationship where you felt controlled, degraded, manipulated, etc. I would never have sex with someone I disliked, and you can have meaningful buddy-type relationships as long as both of you are honest and open and careful. That's probably not ideal, but it sure beats sleeping with a jerk-off husband or overbearing boyfriend. And it also beats celibacy. And you usually can stay friends afterwards, much more easily than if you were actually dating.

It's hilarious to me that I think this now, because I was very adamant (as a virgin) that women (and men) should restrict sex to one life partner if at all possible, due to emotional entanglements, disease, pregnancy, etc. Those are all serious concerns, and I don't think hooking up with someone should ever be undertaken lightly. But hot dang, am I glad to know sex can be as good as it was with some of those guys I slept with. I always suspected, but I never knew for sure. And now I do.

[browngrl]

One more observation...Back on the other board (or maybe TWOP?), Doc Sharon once said that in her practice she has had women who were fundie, had sex for the first time on the wedding night, and had only one partner in their lives. None of them regretted that choice. Doc Sharon also said that she has had other patients who had sex with lots of guys and many of them did regret it. As I recall, Doc Sharon said that in her experience, these women were the ones who were messed up emotionally, not the one partner women.

I'm not Doc Sharon and but in my experience I have run into a fair number of women who do regret not having more partners. IMO : the number of partners a woman has is her own damn business. Whether you choose to have one or 1000 partners is moot. The important thing is that women have a right to choose.

The question this man asks is not an honest attempt to understand why a woman would make certain choices. This question is a prelude to a sermon on the evil of a woman whose choices do not concur with edicts of some religion. It is all about control. Controlling a woman's sexuality goes a long way in controlling the woman.

[bananacat]

Multiple partners, one partner, whatever choice you make is the 'right' sex life for you. Your choices, and what emotions and morals you attach to it are yours alone. The life I lived that included one specific sex partner was a miserable life that I regret and it had nothing to do with sex. Maybe one day I won't regret it; maybe I'll make peace with it. But, right now, I would go back and re-do all I did before I got married before I'd even consider going back to being married.

There are so many great points all over this thread, but I especially like this one. There's a different "right" way for every person. I don't know why some people just don't understand this concept.

[Letgo]

Austin, no I can't post a link to Doc Sharon's comment because I don't know how to post a link and I can't find the comment. My computer abilities are very limited. I looked around on the previous board and could not find any thread that I thought might be the one. As I recall, it was possibly in a thread about fundies going from zero to sex on the wedding night, with people they hardly knew. Memories can be faulty, though, so I am not positive. It may also have been on the TWOP board. I just remember that she said she had not had patients regret waiting, but had had some who regretted not waiting. If you could tell me how to search the old board, I would try. Every time I entered a word nothing came up. I think I must have been doing something wrong. If I am completely wrong about Doc Sharon's post, I am sorry. But my memory is that she said something about this or something similar.

As for what I said being shaming, I don't see where you get that. I said that I couldn't do the hooking up thing and how I felt about it for me. I did not criticize anyone who does it even though they are obviously going straight to hell. Sorry! Could not resist saying that. :D Joking aside, I do think asking about hook ups IS an interesting question. I am curious about why we do what we do. Sexist or not, it is less socially acceptable for a woman to have casual sex than it is for a man. When people choose to go against the norm or against what they have been taught, I wonder what allows them to do that. I don't just mean about sex, I mean other choices, too. Why do some fundies leave and others stay? How do people leave their religion and get caught up in a cult? What gave women the courage, drive, and tenacity to enter traditionally all male fields such as medicine and engineering not that many years ago? Why do some of us break out of what is expected of us? I think the hook up question falls into that area.

I thought this board was for expressing opinions even if they are different from the majority. Part of what I object to about the fundamentalist lifestyle is the lack of choices. I think we should all be allowed to make our own choices insofar as they are legal, moral, not intentionally hurtful to others, healthy, and respectful. While I do have health and safety concerns about hooking up, I did not judge others for doing so. (Safety is a huge issue for me, especially if the two don't really know each other. I have known a woman who was raped and murdered and three more who were raped by getting together with strangers.) I guess safety is another part of why I think asking the hook up question is valid. Another poster brought up alcohol as a factor in some hook ups, which can increase the danger for a woman. I thank God that some of the choices I made when in college did not end very badly. I didn't hook up, but did drink with guys I just met. I would guess that hooking up might be more common now than it was when I was young, but I know it happened then, too. Why do we do things that are potentially so dangerous? I know that many here may not consider it to be that dangerous and no one seems to have had a terrible experience, and I am very glad for that. But the whole issue of hooking up does raise questions for me. I would really like to see a scientific(?) study of the subject. I have not checked out the responses that the guy who asked the question has received, but I kind of got the idea from what I read here, that he has a preconceived idea of why women do it. And he needs to ask why men do it, too-do both sexes have the same reasons? If it is good or bad for one sex, it is for the other, too. Women aren't hooking up alone!

[Austin]

I thought this board was for expressing opinions even if they are different from the majority.

And what would make it not so? Because I said my opinion was that you post came off a bit judgmental and shaming?

If you've been here for more than five minutes, you know that you can express any opinion you'd like. If people disagree, or feel that your opinion is BS, they will call you out on it. That's FJ. I was not mean or rude to you. I simply expressed how your post came off to me. And in re-reading it, I haven't changed my mind. So what?

[bananacat]

And what would make it not so? Because I said my opinion was that you post came off a bit judgmental and shaming?

If you've been here for more than five minutes, you know that you can express any opinion you'd like. If people disagree, or feel that your opinion is BS, they will call you out on it. That's FJ. I was not mean or rude to you. I simply expressed how your post came off to me. And in re-reading it, I haven't changed my mind. So what?

Dontchyaknow that freedom of speech means that other people don't have the freedom to criticize your speech? It's from the Sarah Palin Dictionary of Arbitrary Meanings.

[Rosa]

Part of the reaction to that is that "Why do women hook up?" with a subtext of "What is wrong with women that they are so willing to give it up without getting marriage in return? Don't they respect themselves anymore?" totally IS a part of mainstream culture. It's a standard handwringing article from a million mainstream sources ever since *I* was in college in the early '90s (prior to that, they called it something else, but basically this discussion has been going on since about the year I was born.)

[Austin]

Part of the reaction to that is that "Why do women hook up?" with a subtext of "What is wrong with women that they are so willing to give it up without getting marriage in return? Don't they respect themselves anymore?" totally IS a part of mainstream culture. It's a standard handwringing article from a million mainstream sources ever since *I* was in college in the early '90s (prior to that, they called it something else, but basically this discussion has been going on since about the year I was born.)

So true.

Why doesn't anyone ever ask this question of men? Women "give it up" (I hate that expression but you're right, that's the attitude) to men (for purposes of this discussion), but yet no one ever asks, "Why don't men just respect themselves more?". :roll:

[duplessis3]

As Ricky Gervais says "You don't have the right to not be offended."

[defrauding]

I eagerly await Don Miller's next set of questions for women. "Hey ladies, why is it that men can go do you wrong? Why is it that you just decide to keep holdin' on? Why is it that you never seem to just have the strength to leave?"

Oops. Those were Destiny's Child lyrics.

[Guest Anonymous]

(Safety is a huge issue for me, especially if the two don't really know each other. I have known a woman who was raped and murdered and three more who were raped by getting together with strangers.) I guess safety is another part of why I think asking the hook up question is valid...

Why do we do things that are potentially so dangerous? I know that many here may not consider it to be that dangerous and no one seems to have had a terrible experience, and I am very glad for that.

We have several women on this board who have been raped by their husbands. There are women on the news every week that have been killed by their boyfriends or husbands. The number one cause of death for pregnant women in the U.S. is murder - by their partner. A guy that I date in the traditional "dinner and a movie" fashion is just as likely to rape me as a guy that I decide to hook up with. Gee, I wonder why women do something as dangerous as being in a relationship with a man or getting married to one!

That was hyperbole, but hell's bells.

This post is coming off like: "I'm a good girl, so I won't get raped. That only happens to bad girls who do things I don't approve of."

That's bullshit.

[Daenerys]

So true.

Why doesn't anyone ever ask this question of men? Women "give it up" (I hate that expression but you're right, that's the attitude) to men (for purposes of this discussion), but yet no one ever asks, "Why don't men just respect themselves more?". :roll:

I guess historically it's because the woman bears the burden (pregnancy) of an ill-thought out sexual encounter whilst the man gets off scott free. But nowadays, with paternity tests and obligatory maintenance payments if the woman keeps the child (so consequences for both parties) or abortion if she doesn't want to have a baby (so no visible consequences for either) it's a bit different to Biblical times. Plenty of shit can hit the fan for the man, too.

[Joykins]

That whole article really had a "why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free" undertone.

[Boltingmadonna]

Austin said:

Why doesn't anyone ever ask this question of men?

THIS! Thanks for asking the question that was going through my mind as I read the entire thread. The pastor's question is misogynist from the get-go because it critiques women's behavior as if we were the only ones having sex. It makes the men invisible and tacitly accepts their sexual behavior as normal. Only the LADIES have a problem! It's up to women to make men behave morally by refusing to hook up. If he thinks hooking up is so bad, why doesn't he just focus on convincing MEN not to have sex? Oh, that's right--because men's behavior is normal and not to be questioned. (Also maybe because he realizes it's a hopeless task to convince men that sex is Teh Ebil and is so not fun and will only hurt them? But he thinks there's still a chance he can control women, since it's women's place to be intimidated and accept control of our behavior?)

Whether casual sex is good or bad is a whole other question. But it's a question that can never be adequately answered as long as women are considered the "sex class" and all matters of sexual behavior come around to blaming us. When the question is "Why do people transgress the sexual prohibitions of the church?" the answer is "Because women are sluts!" But when the sermon topic is "Why do married Christian men cheat on their wives and look at porn?" the answer is "Because women are frigid bitches who won't put out!" It is and always will be a no-win situation for us.

[fundiefan]

We have several women on this board who have been raped by their husbands. There are women on the news every week that have been killed by their boyfriends or husbands. The number one cause of death for pregnant women in the U.S. is murder - by their partner. A guy that I date in the traditional "dinner and a movie" fashion is just as likely to rape me as a guy that I decide to hook up with. Gee, I wonder why women do something as dangerous as being in a relationship with a man or getting married to one!

That was hyperbole, but hell's bells.

This post is coming off like: "I'm a good girl, so I won't get raped. That only happens to bad girls who do things I don't approve of."

That's bullshit.

Why do we drive cars? Travel in airplanes. Take medicine we haven't taken before or may have developed an allergy to? Have surgery? Eat food we haven't eaten before? Smoke cigarettes? Drink alcohol? Leave your door unlocked?

Life is a dangerous venture. There is no guarantee in any situation, ever. You can either live in a bubble to protect yourself or live the best you can with what you've got and who you are.

It is appalling that even women hold the view that only 'bad' girls or reckless women are in danger of assault.

[desertvixen]

mythoughtis, apologies if you didn't intend to be judgmental, but it had that tone. Other than your #5 (it feels good), they seemed pretty judgmental to me. Especially, since as another poster said, we don't agonize over why men have one-night stands. It's just accepted.

[mythoughtis]

deservixen

Forum title 'Quiver full of Snark'

enough said.

[makepeace]

I've thought about hooking up with men just for fun - no expectations of a relationship. It hasn't happened yet but there is a man I would seriously consider it for - he is out of my league, amazingly handsome, well off, and a gentleman. Unfortunately, he hasn't shown any desire for me, although I think he knows his power over me, cause I just melt when he looks at me -my instincts would override my principles if I were alone in a room with him. But maybe it would be worth it, cause sometimes you just want to be human and have fun sex.