Ladies - Why do you hook-up?

[CynicMom]

Soooooo there's this fundamentalist author, Don Miller, who recently gave (then deleted) sexist advice on how to make relationships work. Now he's back asking women why they "hook-up". He writes:

"I’m curious about why some girls give up sex easily and whether or not they view their sexuality as a commodity. In other words, do you use sex for some kind of social power or to make yourself feel good?

This consideration may sound naive (and indeed may be naive) coming from a guy, but I’m interested in your response.

So, you meet a guy, you have sex after a couple interactions, and you walk away. What did you gain from the experience and what, if anything, did you you lose?

Did it make you feel powerful? Did it make you feel beautiful?"

He ignores completely the idea that women might have sex because it feels good. Many of the comments from Christians also seem to favor this idea.

Any FreeJingerites want to go set him straight? donmilleris.com/2011/08/23/why-do-you-hook-up/

[Wolfie]

Or that there are tons of women who don't "hook up."

[Rosa]

Wow, what a shitbag. I stopped talking to those dudes around the time one more fucking one night stand reverted to his fundamentalist upbringing and decided orgasms = love or, worse, I had caused him to sin and must marry him to make it right. So, sorry, I won't go answer him.

But, one word answer: orgasms.

I mean, seriously, way to overthink. "Ladies, why are you eating meals at restaurants without developing a mutually fulfilling serious right with God relationship with the cooks? Does it make you feel beautiful? Powerful?"

[debrand]

I don't really want to discuss it with him because on a board with mainly Christians, I will go unheard. If he wishes to ask here, I will be polite as long as he is.

When I was younger, I had a high sex drive. Even when I wasn't thinking about sex, I could get very horny. It used to annoy me so much that I asked someone if it was true that Salt Peter decreased sex drive. It doesn't.

THe few times that I hooked up, it was because I was horny. That was it. I enjoy sex a lot. Even now, as a middle aged woman, married 24 years, I have a high sex drive.

If my husband died(I love him so I don't see ever leaving him), I would probably not remarry. I've seen too many friends get divorced. What I would do is find a buddy with whom I could have meaningless sex.

Christians are invested in viewing women as less sexual and more emotional than men. So, I doubt that Don Miller will accept any answers but the ones that fit his belief system. To them, women who step outside the boxes they design for them are either underconfident, hurting or somehow broken. Because women can't possible have the same sexual needs as men.

[clibbyjo]

I am an old woman. 20 years ago, when I was in college,we would say "hook-up" and it didn't mean anything more than "getting together with"or MAYBE "making out" at the most. If people would have heard my roommates and I saying "I hooked up twice this weekend" today they would think differently than what it meant to us.

[debrand]

Wow, what a shitbag. I stopped talking to those dudes around the time one more fucking one night stand reverted to his fundamentalist upbringing and decided orgasms = love or, worse, I had caused him to sin and must marry him to make it right. So, sorry, I won't go answer him.

But, one word answer: orgasms.

I mean, seriously, way to overthink. "Ladies, why are you eating meals at restaurants without developing a mutually fulfilling serious right with God relationship with the cooks? Does it make you feel beautiful? Powerful?"

I have to say,

Orgasms are really, really great.

[desertvixen]

Orgasms are awesome! It's possible to get by with the solo routine (which I did for almost 3.5 YEARS) but once I was actually having sex with a partner again, I realized how much I had missed it. And there are some things you can't get out of a toy (at least, not without investing QUITE a bit of money).

But yes, the whole concept where a woman might just find a man attractive and want to exercise her sex drive seems to escape a lot of people on that side. Of course, they also don't seem to realize that women can get turned on visually, so what do you expect?

[MonkeyMomma]

Great response in the comments:

Why do women play volleyball? Why do they play monopoly? Why do women paint, or read books? The answer to all of these is, for most women, the same as the answer for why they have sex – because it feels good and it doesn’t harm anyone.

And just like volleyball and monopoly, it’s usually more fun when you get to share the experience with someone you love. But that doesn’t mean that you can’t get a perfectly good game going with strangers!

The thing is, though, that no matter how many people respond that women have sex because they enjoy it (duh, the orgasms again), since it doesn't fit the narrative, it will be disregarded as sad women in denial, desperately seeking love. Just wait long enough, and you'll regret the harmless, fun sex you had. :roll:

[Rosa]

Whoah, what a great answer! Thank you for quoting that comment over here.

I really admire the people who engage with these folks. They make me insane.

[Letgo]

I don't know, I kind of think he asks a valid question. His motives may not be purely scientific, but it is a good question. And he does mention the option of doing it because it feels good. I have had sex with one person in my life, my husband. I think sex is a very intimate act and cannot imagine "hooking up" with some guy just to feel good. (I would also really worry about getting a disease and just KNOW I would get one if I ever did anything! :shock: ) I also don't think random sex it a good idea for guys, either. For me, having sex with numerous people would sort of diminish the marital relationship, if that makes sense. It just isn't for me. I realize that some people do not attach a great deal of importance to having a sexual relationship, and for them it can be very casual and fun. But for others of us, it can't. So for us, I think the hook up question is valid. I am curious. Are women doing it because they love sex? Or is it because they are wanting to feel love or some kind of connection with someone? Maybe they want different experiences before they settle down with one guy. I don't know, but I am interested in the responses that women will have to this question, especially because it goes against what society dictates for women. Even in 2011 it is still less socially acceptable for women to sleep around than it is for men.

One more observation...Back on the other board (or maybe TWOP?), Doc Sharon once said that in her practice she has had women who were fundie, had sex for the first time on the wedding night, and had only one partner in their lives. None of them regretted that choice. Doc Sharon also said that she has had other patients who had sex with lots of guys and many of them did regret it. As I recall, Doc Sharon said that in her experience, these women were the ones who were messed up emotionally, not the one partner women.

[dormouse]

I was single during only 1 year of my adult life, and I hooked up a lot. I was 25, and hadn't been single since I was 17. I was slowly finding out that I was not as ugly and worthless as my violent ex made me believe all these years. So I hooked up with pretty much every guy who gave me attention, who made me feel attractive. I was living alone with my dog and it was a freedom I had never had before in my life. I was like a kid in a candy store. I'm a little bit embarrassed to say that, when I met my husband, he had been my 8th sex partner of that year. Had to kiss a lot of frogs to find my prince! Sex with a person who barely knows you is rarely enjoyable. It was mostly for the attention they were giving me rather than for the physical pleasure. Sex with my husband is a thousand time better than all those one-night-stands, because he knows me well.

I will mostly remember that "season" :roll: of my life as a time of freedom. The one-night stands were only a part of that time: I was living completely on my own for the first time, bringing home a new puppy, trying out new jobs, being a Big Sister, making new friends, finding a style that was totally my own and not dictated by my ex... I do not feel guilty for having been promiscuous, except for one thing: even if the men I've been with always used condoms, I somehow got diseases that may have left me infertile. I see it as a punishment for having slept around, even if I know it's fundy-ish way to think.

[bananacat]

I hook up for the same reason that some men do. I enjoy sex and don't want a serious relationship at this point in my life. It's as simple as that. Sex is not something that I "give up" because I get as much pleasure from it as I give. I don't use it to play games or control men. I simply enjoy doing it. I don't view sex as something where women lose and men gain, and I don't view at as something that women give to men or a favor that women do for men.

[bananacat]

I don't know, I kind of think he asks a valid question. His motives may not be purely scientific, but it is a good question. And he does mention the option of doing it because it feels good. I have had sex with one person in my life, my husband. I think sex is a very intimate act and cannot imagine "hooking up" with some guy just to feel good. (I would also really worry about getting a disease and just KNOW I would get one if I ever did anything! :shock: ) I also don't think random sex it a good idea for guys, either. For me, having sex with numerous people would sort of diminish the marital relationship, if that makes sense. It just isn't for me. I realize that some people do not attach a great deal of importance to having a sexual relationship, and for them it can be very casual and fun. But for others of us, it can't. So for us, I think the hook up question is valid. I am curious. Are women doing it because they love sex? Or is it because they are wanting to feel love or some kind of connection with someone? Maybe they want different experiences before they settle down with one guy. I don't know, but I am interested in the responses that women will have to this question, especially because it goes against what society dictates for women. Even in 2011 it is still less socially acceptable for women to sleep around than it is for men.

One more observation...Back on the other board (or maybe TWOP?), Doc Sharon once said that in her practice she has had women who were fundie, had sex for the first time on the wedding night, and had only one partner in their lives. None of them regretted that choice. Doc Sharon also said that she has had other patients who had sex with lots of guys and many of them did regret it. As I recall, Doc Sharon said that in her experience, these women were the ones who were messed up emotionally, not the one partner women.

Nobody is saying that hooking up is the only valid option or that everyone should do it. If you don't want to hook up, then don't. What about letting individuals decide what is best for their own lives?

[debrand]

I think that women have been taught to regret having casual sex. We've been told repeatedly that sex is supposed to be about love and if we have casual sex, it's because we are broken, stupid or feel worthless.

Everyone is different. Some people only enjoy sex when they are in an emotional relationship. Those people are not wrong nor are they prudes. They should follow their instincts and not have one night stands

Other people can seperate sex from emotions. Those people are not bad or immoral. They aren't somehow less right than people who choose to have sex with only one person.

I strongly believe that the sex act itself should have no morality attached to it. That doesn't mean that you should cheat on your spouse because lying is wrong. If you promise to be monogamous, you should be monogamous. But I don't think that a couple who is open about having a polyamarous relationship are wrong either. Its the dishonest that is a problem, not the sex itself.

Let go, the reason Don addresses women specifically is because we aren't supposed to be able to separate love from sex.

By the way, everyone should be honest with their own selves. If you want to be in a relationship before you have sex, don't let anyone pressure you into doing things that you don't want to do. And if you want to have one night stands, don't let anyone make you feel guilty. We all have the right to our individual feelings about sex.

[Guest Anonymous]

I don't know, I kind of think he asks a valid question. His motives may not be purely scientific, but it is a good question. And he does mention the option of doing it because it feels good.

Why do you think it's such a good question? You seem to have already formed your opinion on the subject, judging by the rest of your comment.

I have had sex with one person in my life, my husband. I think sex is a very intimate act and cannot imagine "hooking up" with some guy just to feel good. (I would also really worry about getting a disease and just KNOW I would get one if I ever did anything! :shock: )

That's fine, there's nothing wrong with you making the decisions that are right for you. I would never try to shame anyone for doing that.

I also don't think random sex it a good idea for guys, either.

Random unsubstantiated thing that you think but okay. Everyone has opinions.

For me, having sex with numerous people would sort of diminish the marital relationship, if that makes sense. It just isn't for me.

Sure, that makes sense. Good on you again for doing what is right for you.

I realize that some people do not attach a great deal of importance to having a sexual relationship, and for them it can be very casual and fun.

Yep, and there is nothing wrong with that, and there's nothing wrong with those people.

But for others of us, it can't. So for us, I think the hook up question is valid.

Uh, the hook up question is valid for people who don't hook up? This doesn't make sense.

I am curious. Are women doing it because they love sex? Or is it because they are wanting to feel love or some kind of connection with someone? Maybe they want different experiences before they settle down with one guy.

I imagine some women have sex for all of the reasons you listed above. All good reasons to have sex, as far as I'm concerned. Well, not the "feel love" thing, as the two don't necessarily have to go together, but loving sex, feeling connected, and having different experiences are all healthy reasons to have sex.

I don't know, but I am interested in the responses that women will have to this question, especially because it goes against what society dictates for women. Even in 2011 it is still less socially acceptable for women to sleep around than it is for men.

That's down to sexism. I blame the patriarchy.

One more observation...Back on the other board (or maybe TWOP?), Doc Sharon once said that in her practice she has had women who were fundie, had sex for the first time on the wedding night, and had only one partner in their lives. None of them regretted that choice.

Someone else's anecdotal evidence? Not sure what that's worth in the grand scheme of things, but here's an anecdote to contradict it. At 18 years old, married, to the only guy I ever slept with until I got divorced, you can be sure that I regretted the hell out of that choice. I would have been way better off to date more people and have sex with them too.

You made the right choice for you, it seems that you think it is the right choice for everyone but it doesn't work that way. Your post comes across as shaming to me.

Doc Sharon also said that she has had other patients who had sex with lots of guys and many of them did regret it. As I recall, Doc Sharon said that in her experience, these women were the ones who were messed up emotionally, not the one partner women.

This is offensive. I love Doc Sharon as a poster, and do not recall this going down at all, but I very much disagree that women with a lot of partners are messed up emotionally. I am emotionally healthier now as a person who has slept with multiple people and is currently living in sin, than I ever had a hope of being in my one partner marriage. Are some women with multiple partners messed up? Sure they are. But a percentage of any sample of people is. If you don't consider that we *all* are, to one extent or another. Frankly I'm gobsmacked if you look at all of these fundie marriages where the bride was most likely a virgin and interpret their lives as emotionally healthy. To me, they look like the farthest thing from it.

I know many happy, healthy people who have had multiple sex partners. Maybe if we didn't shame women and treat them like freaks for enjoying sex or like trash for having it with multiple people, less of us would be messed up over it.

***ETA: After reading posts by debrand and bananacat that were written while I was working on my post, they helped clarify my thinking. If women are "messed up" why do we assume that it's the fault of the sex they had, and not the fault of the way people treated them for doing it, and the bad thoughts they internalized about themselves because of outside influences?

Because everyone seems to accept that guys can have loads of sex and not be "messed up." The difference, in my opinion, is more likely to be societal and not biological.

[mythoughtis]

Well, some young women hook up because they are

1 'looking for love in all the wrong places'

2.drunk on their ass

3. desparate to escape their home life

4. drunk on their ass

5. It feels good

6. They want to feel liberated, like the guys

7. They think maybe this one will want to be with thim for more than one night

8. Low self esteem

and did I mention, drunk?

[desertvixen]

Well, that's not a whole bunch of shame and judgment piled on there, mythoughtis.

Society still teaches "he's a stud, she's a slut" for the same act. Thanks for adding to the chorus.

[FundiesInMyFamily]

Well, some young women hook up because they are

1 'looking for love in all the wrong places'

2.drunk on their ass

3. desparate to escape their home life

4. drunk on their ass

5. It feels good

6. They want to feel liberated, like the guys

7. They think maybe this one will want to be with thim for more than one night

8. Low self esteem

and did I mention, drunk?

And some young (and older) ladies hook up because they are humans and enjoy sex

[Daenerys]

Or that there are tons of women who don't "hook up."

Word.

I kissed around a bit, but I never actually dated a guy until I was out of high school, because I didn't want to date someone when there was no possibility of marriage. I had a couple of duds, but now I'm onto a lovely guy who I think might be the one, and I'm only 20! It's different for every girl but personally, I'm happy to settle down and start having kids at the same age as many of these QF people. And I'm a militant atheist.

My Catholic friends from school, however... :lol:

[Rosa]

If more women regret multiple partners than one partner, which is totally possible, I would guess it's a logical reason: you can always add experiences, but you can never subtract them.

Wake up one morning, think, I have wasted my life, I can't believe this dud is the only person who's ever touched my sweet spot. Go find another person. Become a multiple-sex-partner person.

vs.

Wake up one morning, think, I have wasted my life on meaningless sex, what a terrible thing, I am not going to do that anymore. Remain a multiple-sex-partner person.

Suddenly my sample of women who at some point think "I hate the way I live I am going to change" is 100% women who've had multiple partners, and 50% are unhappy with the choice, compared to the 0% of one-and-only-one women who are perfectly happy with their dude but go out and do someone else anyway.

p.s. I know more people who get wasted and do something they really want to do but feel they shouldn't want, than people who get wasted and do something completely out of character.

[anniebgood]

Geeez, I liked sex. I had several long term boyfriends and I had a few casual encounters. After I broke up with one guy, we still were friends with benefits.

I never felt guilty, I don't think I was drunk on my ass either, I liked the fun that came from having a good exhaustive romp on the sheets, on the boat, in the sand (didn't like picking it out though) and a few other places.

I married the guy I married because he made me laugh, was good in bed, and was a genuinely nice guy. Like Debrand said earlier, I'd like another friend with benefits if anything happened to him. I don't think I'd ever want to be married again.

YMMV

[Hane]

There was a time in my life when I thought my hooking-up was just a fun sexual release--but I learned that it was because I felt desperate and lonely and that the one I was trying to love didn't love me back.

Sadly, I think I'm one of those women who isn't wired for casual sex. I've tried it, and then find myself starting to fall for Mr. Right Now.

I genuinely envy women who are capable of sexual autonomy.

[Rosa]

Hane, I think that self-knowledge and then going for relationships that suit you the best *is* sexual autonomy.

[doggie]

I doubt the guy will except true answers or really cares. he is just getting ammo to prove what he thinks.

[fundiefan]

George Michael said it best. Sex is natural, sex is fun.