Pennington Point daughter escapes/ Has no ID's MERGED

[Delilah]

So they haven't filed taxes since shortly after Faith was born? WOW. The Pennington parents are really up shit creek now. If IRS was interested before, they're REALLY going to be interested now. They may have finally decided to give Faith what she needs (I'll believe it when I see it), but they are sorely mistaken if they think that doing so will end their "woes." I think this is only the beginning.

Yes, I hope so. Unfortunately, from what I've learned, they seem too slippery to be caught.

[Lillybee]

Before I retired, I was an elibibility worker for a county. I once had a client who because of her hippy-dippy parents was in the same position as Faith. The best I could do for her is grant some temporary MediCal on proof of an application for a Soc.Securty card. She had 60 days to provide the number and then the benefits were cancelled.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Im so glad that Faith is being helped by her parents now, hopefully she will be able to get her rights to an identity back. She is being so mature through all this.

[formergothardite]

I know people have said that this can be seen as a negative thing towards homeschooling because extremists are portrayed.

But really, kids attend public school all the time without birth certificates or social security cards. It's the combination of non- registered birth, no Christening/Baptism records, no medical records, no immunizations AND no help from her parents that is causing her issues. It isn't just because she is home schooled. The difference is that if she had attended public school she could at least document her presence in the U.S. From age 5.

Oh ! Just thought of something ( sorry if I missed someone saying this ) wouldn't her parents have filed some sort of paperwork with the state saying they were homeschooling their kids? Which would be filed somewhere and list her name, address and birthdate? Or are they soooooo off- grid that they pretended they didn't exist at all?

Maybe this is true in your state, but in mine to register for school you need a birth certificate, parent/guardian valid ID, two proofs of residency, current shot records and a health assessment.

[Grimalkin]

Im so glad that Faith is being helped by her parents now, hopefully she will be able to get her rights to an identity back. She is being so mature through all this.

Yeah, but it seems ok to badmouth her on thier FB page.

[chaotic life]

I'm actually going to weigh in, mainly because I know off the grid homeschoolers who have done precisely this. Most of the people I know figured out how much harder it was going to be to prove their children's identities if they waited for adulthood, but it was still a long, grueling process for minor children. I also know some international adoptees who have run into problems because paperwork was either not completed or done wrong.

With the parents working with you, it can be done, but will take time and effort. Undoubtably that is what was done with the two kids who have paperwork now. Without the parents cooperation, it can be near impossible to accomplish.

HA summaried it very clearly, and everything the Pennington parents have said confirms their analysis. It is a form of control and abuse that keeps the children in line, because if you choose to leave, you will receive no help and no documents that do exist will be turned over to you.

I suspect that any supposed help offered by her parents before the public shaming was conditional to returning control of her life to them as well. While I know she doesn't wish to speak ill of her parents any more than necessary to get her identity returned, this is Stockholm Syndrome. The longer you are away from the abuse, Alecia, the more you will understand how deep and controlling that abuse was.

[nokidsmom]

I suspect that any supposed help offered by her parents before the public shaming was conditional to returning control of her life to them as well. While I know she doesn't wish to speak ill of her parents any more than necessary to get her identity returned, this is Stockholm Syndrome. The longer you are away from the abuse, Alecia, the more you will understand how deep and controlling that abuse was.

To the bolded: spot on. While it may be admirable as well as advantageous to Alecia to not have her parents denigrated in public at this time, it's far too soon to figure out how steeped in her parents' koolaid she still is. She needs years to fully comprehend what her parents did to her, right now she still wants to think on some level that they are still good people and had her best interests at heart.

[Tesseract]

mmlauser,

Welcome! Is Alecia working with the lawyer from HSLDA? If so, please tell her to be very careful or find a neutral lawyer. That group is known for supporting parents rights not those of children (no matter how old they are). I'd hate to see her used/taken advantage of on top of everything else.

It's good to know that her parents are now cooperating. Hopefully, it is coming without strings attached. I agree with everyone who says that her parents have done a good job showing exactly who they are all by themselves. It obviously took public attention to get them to the point of doing the right thing. She must be overwhelmed with a mix of emotions. Like FG said, the longer she is away, the more clarity she will have.

Good luck, Alecia. You are one brave woman!

[browncoatslytherin]

I know this is going to sound illogical, because it is. And I am not bashing Alecia's motives, I think she is just overwhelmed and confused, as anyone would be.

BUT, Yes, there are MANY government agency programs and services that require proof of a negative, if you don't have proof of a positive.

That can mean, for example, doing things like getting statements from a social security office verifying you do not receive social security benefits. Or going to the welfare office, filling out an application in order to be denied so you have the denial letter, even if you knew you weren't eligible in the first place. Or filling out a drivers license application, even if you don't have the required documents, so that the clerk at the court can run the information on the application and verify there isn't already a drivers license for that person. The same with the social security application. It isn't picking up a blank application that helps with proof, it's having an official review it to ensure you don't already have whatever it is.

Because from the governments viewpoint it isn't just about Alecia obtaining the documents she needs to function, it's also about making sure she doesn't already have documents proving a valid identity. So that she can't commit fraud.

Does that make more sense? Trust me, I understand if it doesn't, but, honest, that's how it works :)

Also, I think another issue is that she is confused about terminology. I read a bit on her Facebook and watched the video. What stood out to me was that, again, my impression, was that she is using the term " court" to mean going before a Judge. So she is pushing to go before a Judge with her issues. When what she really just needs to do is submit her documents to the " court" which is likely actually a specific office.

I do think this has been harder than it absolutely needed to be, but these sorts of things are confusing at best.

Also, as far as the other adult children being able to get documents, I think it was probably relatively easy because the parents likely filled out and signed the affidavit.

From my reading of the lists of documents it appears that the primary document to obtain the birth certificate is the affidavit. And then to supplement that they will accept things like school records, social security application etc.

Just saw that the TIN is only for immigrants. Oops, sorry, I thought it might apply to some other folks too. It's not that bad to file for, you only need one of the documents listed and most folks I know use a Consular card. .... Hmmm.... Wonder what those chidults are going to do about taxes? :think: Searching around I found quite a few off - grid sites that give various ideas, most of which seem very iffy. Getting a TIN through a religous objection on a case by case basis seems to have worked for at least some people.

i'm just catching up, so sorry if someone else already mentioned this specifically, mamma mia, but per the handbook, all documents but the signed affidavit have to be at least 5 years old or older. the website does not state this, unfortunately, but the handbook does.

http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/field/do ... ndbook.pdf

next to last page, under the requirements there's a "note" that states this. i wish that they would state this on the website to make sure a consistent message is sent. i have little doubt that this has tripped up people in the past, who only read the website and think they're good only to be later told of the age requirement for the documents.

mmlauser has also stated that she did indeed submit the documents she had and it was determined that it was not sufficient, which i think she stated on her fb somewhere (in the comments, maybe, because i thought i recalled her stating that what she had wasn't enough before mmlauser came on here. hi, mm!). obviously if what she had was not older than five years and/or did not meet the requirement of having all the proper information on it (her baptismal certificate did not have her birthday on it, for instance), then it would not be acceptable.

i'm very glad that her parents are finally caving and giving her anything she needs. it was very shitty of them to undoubtedly offer her what she needs with all kinds of strings attached. one possibly good thing that has come out of this, though, is that now she will be able to get what she needs and won't have any strings hanging from them. she can be as free and clear as she wants to be.

[chaotic life]

Honestly, I've had to deal with the hassle of proving a child's identity and citizenship. I'm going today to hopefully end a decade battle over my oldest because the state in which we re-adopted him never filed his adoption with VS and won't issue a state certificate of birth (functions legally as a birth certificate of foreign adoptees). My father had to involve his state senator with this same state on my sister because he lacked other proofs of identity that we hold. In our case, we have sufficient documentation to file for a passport, which is a primary proof document and will eliminate his need for all of the other documents. But, the only birth certificate we have was filed when he was 7 in a foreign country and there is only one copy. We've been using the certified copy of his US adoption and a printed copy of the Child Citizen Act of2000 for years while we fought the state.

A child has a lot of trouble proving their OWN identity. You have to have corroboration from people who have actual memories. That's why the parent, even when you are a legal adult) can do it easier. Unless they were present to witness the actual birth, an affidavit from her grandparents might he considered insufficient. Even when I registered my homebirths the week after they were born, I had to provide proof of pregnancy and corroborating witnesses who saw me give birth, in my case my spouse and birth attendant.

As I said, HA has summarized the problem very well. It's a serious abuse and control point, and it's one that has long been advocated by Michael Pearl as a way to protect your children from the government.

[whoviana]

It is a form of control and abuse that keeps the children in line, because if you choose to leave, you will receive no help and no documents that do exist will be turned over to you.

I suspect that any supposed help offered by her parents before the public shaming was conditional to returning control of her life to them as well.

YES and YES!

My thoughts were when lisa and that tool husband of hers said that the other kids got their paper with their help, they must be the kids who live their adult lives according to lisa's sick and controlling expectations. They got those advantages on certain conditions.

Both parents are sick and controlling beyond my imagination. It is one thing to put up a show before the world and display the "perfect family" image everywhere while brainwashing their kids. Depriving them of their most basic civil rights such as the right to drive, the right to vote and the right to get a SSN...? And the right to have a birth certificate that proves that they exist, at all? is downright a pathologically sick act.

At first I thought that Lisa was the aggressor and Mr Lisa was the enabler. After seeing his carefully orchestrated video where he speaks scarily sweetly in that weasely manner creeped me out. That guy is no victim. He is sneaky as ****. He put on a mask before the world and people won't see what's beneath.

As to the helpfulness: it's too late for charity! A law abiding citizen gets a birth certificate first thing once the child is born! You don't sweetly offer to help with that 20 years later! This goes without saying and you don't earn a boy scout badge for getting your kid a BC!

These two parents are like two peas in a pod. They orchestrated this whole circus more carefully than one can imagine.

Thank heavens it went viral! Thank heavens it became worldwide news. Alicia was the first kid to have the guts and ask for help and to get out. If the social services won't open a file after this, I'll start doubting many things I believe in.

[Four is Enough]

All I can say about the parents' "cooperation" is: I HOPE it is cooperation in a true Christian sense, and not a final attempt to nab Alecia Faith and get her back into their clutches. I don't trust them.

[whoviana]

All I can say about the parents' "cooperation" is: I HOPE it is cooperation in a true Christian sense, and not a final attempt to nab Alecia Faith and get her back into their clutches. I don't trust them.

I think that it never was and never will be true christian sense. No. It's just mere fright since their ass is on the line now, and this still is just the beginning, the uproar will be earth-shattering to them, this, comparing to what will happen once authorities intervene, is just a bit of bickering.

And no, they'll never get Faith/Alicia back. First, the determination and the strength underneath that calmness that Alicia displayed suggests that she's had made her choice about them a long time ago. Now she's reaching out to the entire world to help her escape. And they will never get her under their paws again, not after what's going down with her right now.

[browncoatslytherin]

All I can say about the parents' "cooperation" is: I HOPE it is cooperation in a true Christian sense, and not a final attempt to nab Alecia Faith and get her back into their clutches. I don't trust them.

congrats on post# 666 :D

i am concerned as well, but i'm less concerned about it now that it has gone viral than if it hadn't. with more exposure, i think the parents probably feel pretty exposed so anything they might try to do underhanded would be seen and called out. i think the more people watching, the better. more chances they'll be on their best behaviour. :wink-kitty:

[whoviana]

People need to learn about these cults, since, I'm quoting the Pope here: they are breeding like rabbits! Seriously these fundies are like popcorns, you pour in a small handful, you blink and they fill up a bucket! That means more people with no birth certificates, no vaccinations, daughters with arranged marriages, families of 15 by the hundreds picketing against women's right to abortion, sharia-law kind of dress codes for women, stricter and stricter rules for marriage for each generation like we're moving backwardly in time, birthing slaves with no education or a proper profession - it will be time for society to open up their eyes to reality and learn the actual truth about these people, then learn about the exponentially growing number of these people, since they seem to double in number by the minute. **Plus the number of people that they lure in and convert from normal christians into whackjobs.

[Feministe9000]

Lisa's blog is down again.

Maybe she should just pack up her oils, leave the blog and spend 6 months reflecting on this experience.

No, really.

I am so happy for Faith and a future that is looking so much brighter for her!

[lucylauser]

mmlauser,

Welcome! Is Alecia working with the lawyer from HSLDA? If so, please tell her to be very careful or find a neutral lawyer. That group is known for supporting parents rights not those of children (no matter how old they are). I'd hate to see her used/taken advantage of on top of everything else.

It's good to know that her parents are now cooperating. Hopefully, it is coming without strings attached. I agree with everyone who says that her parents have done a good job showing exactly who they are all by themselves. It obviously took public attention to get them to the point of doing the right thing. She must be overwhelmed with a mix of emotions. Like FG said, the longer she is away, the more clarity she will have.

Good luck, Alecia. You are one brave woman!

I know all about the HSLDA. I looked him up and I found no evidence of being associated with them.

[Tesseract]

I know all about the HSLDA. I looked him up and I found no evidence of being associated with them.

That's great news. You seem like such a good friend to her!

[browncoatslytherin]

I know all about the HSLDA. I looked him up and I found no evidence of being associated with them.

good! thanks so much for helping alecia, mm. :)

[FundieWatcher]

"Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:36 am

People need to learn about these cults, since, I'm quoting the Pope here: they are breeding like rabbits! Seriously these fundies are like popcorns, you pour in a small handful, you blink and they fill up a bucket! That means more people with no birth certificates, no vaccinations, daughters with arranged marriages, families of 15 by the hundreds picketing against women's right to abortion, sharia-law kind of dress codes for women, stricter and stricter rules for marriage for each generation like we're moving backwardly in time, birthing slaves with no education or a proper profession - it will be time for society to open up their eyes to reality and learn the actual truth about these people, then learn about the exponentially growing number of these people, since they seem to double in number by the minute. **Plus the number of people that they lure in and convert from normal christians into whackjobs."

That is my nightmare too. But I wouldn't worry just yet.

2nd and 3rd generation fundie homeschooling aren't following in their parents footsteps in mass numbers. And even if they were, by the time you get to the 3rd generation that has no higher education, employment and opportunities start to dwindle.

Look at the Maxwell family. They wouldn't even let their son be a paramedic. It all, the entire extended family, depends on the ministry.

The future generations of this movement will not be as educated and employable. They have very narrow roles they must follow. (Must pay cash for house, wives should not work, no college that is't an expensive shady fundie approved online thing, no living on your own, etc)

[lucylauser]

:embarrassed:

Feel free to call me Matt, BTW.

[whoviana]

:embarrassed:

Feel free to call me Matt, BTW.

People like you restore my faith in humanity.

[Grimalkin]

Does anybody keep in touch with Cynthia Jeub? Perhaps she can lend some emotional support to Alecia. It might be best to mention her to Alecia because God only know what kind of people are contacting her.

[Palimpsest]

Does anybody keep in touch with Cynthia Jeub? Perhaps she can lend some emotional support to Alecia. It might be best to mention her to Alecia because God only know what kind of people are contacting her.

I'm sure they are already aware of each other and Cynthia has tweeted about Alecia's story. The similarities in their situations are huge.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Too bad we didn't follow Lisa back when she had babies and young children. I bet she was scheduled to the max with all day training. Listen to what someone posted on fb:

They are horrible people I have known them for years. We could talk about the blog post Lisa wrote years ago in which she admitted to hitting a 15 month old for over an hour because he wouldn't say mama therefore wasn't obedient. She is a mean, mentally ill person.