Lets announce your virginity to the whole school.

[longtimelurker6]

I actually attended a school in Thailand where everything from top to toe was uniform, including hair: a crewcut for boys, a bob for girls. Jewelry was allowed only if made of string or cardboard. (They have quite a nice way of making colored cardboard charms in Thailand.) The intent was indeed to make the poor kids indistinguishable from the rich, and it absolutely worked. Some of the kids' uniforms were supplied by charity. But everyone was dressed the same.

In public schools in the US where uniforms have been required, I have heard of teachers buying the uniforms for indigent students with their own money. Hardly an ideal solution in a country as rich as ours. But in many US public schools, uniforms have actually been instituted to keep kids from getting involved in the drug trade. This was true in DC during the worst of the crack era, for example. Drug dealers would come to school flashing gold chains and $150 sneakers. So the DC schools were some of the first public schools in the country to require uniforms. It was a hard sell-- seemed unAmerican and all.

[SamE]

My kids wear uniforms. WalMart and Old Navy are cheap. $5 polos, skorts are $8, shorts are $5, and pants are around $10. I have a boy and a girl.

Each get 3 full uniforms at the start of the school year - they pick the pieces.

Our school has a free uniform closet where you can swap out clothes as the kids grow.

Shoes and cell phones are the thing that separates the richer kids from the regular kids. Nikes are for the richer kids ($50-$80 a pair) and WalMart shoes for the poorer ones. Android cell phones vs. flip phones....

We live in a poorer part of town, so there isn't a huge difference between the haves and the have-nots.

[louisa05]

My kids wear uniforms. WalMart and Old Navy are cheap. $5 polos, skorts are $8, shorts are $5, and pants are around $10. I have a boy and a girl.

Each get 3 full uniforms at the start of the school year - they pick the pieces.

Our school has a free uniform closet where you can swap out clothes as the kids grow.

Shoes and cell phones are the thing that separates the richer kids from the regular kids. Nikes are for the richer kids ($50-$80 a pair) and WalMart shoes for the poorer ones. Android cell phones vs. flip phones....

We live in a poorer part of town, so there isn't a huge difference between the haves and the have-nots.

A lot of Catholic school call it a "dress system". The last one I taught in did and it consisted of specified clothing that was allowed.

Their list was: khaki or navy pants, polos in four colors, two colors of crew neck sweatshirts, one hooded sweatshirt, two different sweaters, navy or khaki shorts, and two styles of skirts for girls--a solid and a plaid.

Only the shorts, sweaters and skirts were required to be bought specifically at a uniform store and the hooded sweatshirts had to be purchased from the school. Most families bought pants and polos at discount stores. And there was a uniform closet to trade clothing as many have mentioned. Most parents said they spent LESS on school clothes as a result (and at the time, it was a 6-12 school with no private school option for k-5 in town, so they had sent kids to public school with no uniform system prior). I had a lot of students who said they never had new shorts or skirts as those were found in the uniform closet. I saw one student who had one of the sweaters in the entire ten years I worked there. And they all only had a few items that were worn more frequently as compared to the amount of clothes they had for public school (especially girls).

Of course, there were "break the dress code" days that allowed us the joy of all sorts of clothing controversies. For my first three years, there were also "dress up" days that there was an out of uniform dress code for so that we could have even more dress code controversies. They got rid of that. During my last two years, they decided that for break the dress code day there could only be shirts with messages if they were related to school sports or activities. That got rid of some controversy, but if you sponsored an activity, suddenly the kids wanted to design and order t-shirts.

[Cheetah]

Of course, there were "break the dress code" days that allowed us the joy of all sorts of clothing controversies. For my first three years, there were also "dress up" days that there was an out of uniform dress code for so that we could have even more dress code controversies.

It cracks me up sometimes at my son's school to see just how tight and stretchy you can get khaki pants these days. Clearly someone somewhere has invented the stretch-khaki specifically for girls who have to wear them to school...

[louisa05]

It cracks me up sometimes at my son's school to see just how tight and stretchy you can get khaki pants these days. Clearly someone somewhere has invented the stretch-khaki specifically for girls who have to wear them to school...

Oh, yes. We had that, too. They banned any sort of legging style pants the year I left--just in time based on current fashion. And there was some handwringing over female teachers being allowed to wear capris and students not being allowed to. But that was put to rest when we said we would stop wearing them if we could wear shorts--which the kids could and we could not. The building only had window air conditioners, one per classroom, and could get very hot. A few girls also discovered, I have no idea where, khaki denim pants one year. After much handwringing and pointless discussion, those got banned, too.

Then there was the year that the students en masse got the notion that they must be allowed to add yellow to the list of acceptable polo shirt colors. There was no rhyme or reason or motivation for it that we could discern, but the admins finally gave up and added yellow to the list. Then they all decided yellow was not cool and only a handful of kids ever turned up in a yellow shirt. :roll:

[crazyforkate]

I went to a private school for a couple of years which had very simple requirements for uniforms - only a few colours could be worn (black, white, grey, tan, navy), but it could be any style you wanted as long as it wasn't too revealing. No outside logos, and you had to have the school crest on all your shirts, which was easy enough, since they sold them as iron-on patches for a couple of dollars each (and I think even gave you some as part of enrollment). So in theory you could just get a bunch of cheap t-shirts and pants, pick up a few patches, and you were golden. A lot of stuff already in your closet would probably qualify. It's still an expense, but nowhere near as pricey up front as a full uniform.

Of course, this was very open to abuse...like the time I wore leather pants to school. They were black, after all!

[HoneyBunny]

I wore uniforms through 12 years of Catholic school. In high school, I went to a girls' school right in the heart of the wealthiest part of town. Since they couldn't distinguish themselves with clothes, the students who could afford them had Bermuda bags with changeable covers (oh, how I wanted one!!!), REAL Sperry Topsiders (mine came from Bargain City), and, eventually, cars.

People will always find a way to build themselves up and put others down. The virginity t-shirt is just another example of that. Not exactly WJWD, if you ask me.

[DGayle]

In junior high I had to wear two sets of uniforms. One for a performance group and one for school. In both cases each organization held a uniform exchange where families could trade uniform items or get them at very low prices because families whose kids had outgrown their uniforms would donate the uniform back to the exchange. My family wasn't rolling in money so I had two complete school uniforms, one to wear and one to wash. Same thing for my siblings. The performance uniform, I had one set for each season but since I didn't have to wear the performance uniform five days a week, that was manageable.

Uniforms do eliminate the drama of messages and logos on clothing but the whole "everyone looks like everyone else and thus are equal" ideal simply doesn't translate into practice. There were ALWAYS methods of increasing your status by tweaking your uniform. I am not talking rolling up the hemline. The cool kids whose folks had money to spare got Izod knit polos. The rest of us had to wear the 1950's style, must iron Peter-Pan collar shirts. Girls hair ornaments created a whole different pecking order as well. Free dress days while infrequent were a riot of one-upmanship even with the no text on clothing rule. Then it was brand name pants or gasp... jeans, tops, shoes etc... It was so bad a younger sister would throw insane tantrums and con the parental units into going to the mall to buy her a new outfit because her classmates had already seen her in her previous secular/street wear outfits. By then there were a few more resources to work with and to my utter and enduring astonishment our parents fell for it EVERY TIME. Ok, so our folks were idiots on that point. Bottom line, uniforms don't solve as many problems as people think they do or they amplify other problems.

The one-upping based on pricier brands and pecking orders based on hair ornaments, and even advertising which sexual services girls were willing to do based on rubber bracelets, happened at a school some of my cousins went to when the school tried a lax uniform without brands. I'm talking the choice of sweat pants or slacks in a couple colors, and sweat shirts or short-sleeve polos in a couple colors, and one of my cousins was upset at no skirts. So the school went to a certain brand from a uniform store, and that stuff wasn't going to hold up for years, and banned different colors of shoe laces and non-religious jewelry, and hair clips were limited to plain rubber bands, plain headbands, and I think makeup was also limited, if not banned. My aunts with kids at that school struggled horribly the couple years their kids had to wear very designated uniforms, but didn't struggle when it was free-dress.

My high school very briefly considered a uniform, and I was on the side of uniforms, until there were a couple meetings and it was brought up what problems could be caused. And one of them was cost. You either have a bunch of uniforms and always look like you're wearing new stuff, or your stuff gets worn out, and then it might get donated, and the poor students always look poor, which creates a social order, and that's of stuff gets donated. A lot of the rich people on my town wouldn't donate a can of food to the food drive, and the school district didn't have the money.

If you have a wealthy area, it might work better, but otherwise, problems. And you either ban everything not on a set list, or you will have problems.

And how in god's name can anyone make a couple skirts last through daily wearing for 4 years? Honestly, I'm calling BS on that. I'm not hard on my clothes, but I can only get a pair of good jeans to last a year if I don't wear them more than a couple times a week, wash on a gentle, cold cycle, and hang to dry. A couple skirts, 4 years, that's 300-400 wearings each, and the laundering is either close to half that number, or I'm going to worry about sanitation.

Uniforms can make it nice not to think about what to wear, but in a lot of areas, it's just not going to be the solution any more than a reasonable dress code. When I was in high school, graphic t-shirts and words that didn't have to do with the school or sports teams weren't allowed. Nothing showing midriffs, nothing cut lower than 3 of your own fingers below collar bone, all shorts and skirts had to be at least as long as your own fingertips at your side, and nothing see-through. That was the entire dress code, applied to everyone, and problems were extremely rare.

[louisa05]

In my experience teaching in a school with a uniform system for ten years, the teens did not give a flying you-know-what how good their khakis and polos looked. They saved that energy for the clothes they wore outside of school. So if things were not outgrown, they lasted a school year or longer. And the location of the "uniform closet" (which was not really a closet) meant that teachers walked by it regularly. I recall seeing mamas in their trading outgrown shorts or skirts for their kids who had husbands who were surgeons at the hospital. So, no, the level to which a pair of khaki shorts were worn did not indicate the family's status.

It was a small town and kids knew whose dad was a surgeon and whose mom commuted to the city to manage a prestigious business and whose parents were unemployed. But they didn't know because of the newness of each other's khaki pants. Frankly, all their pants looked like crap most of the time. And none of them cared.

[Miggy]

You don't have to believe it but it's true - two skirts, four years. They are washed every two to three wears on the gentle cycle in the washing machine. I dry them outside in the shade. (I never dry black in the sun to avoid fading.) I'll admit the white isn't as white as it use to be but it doesn't stand out compared to the other girls. (The photo makes this look worse than it really is. As a comparison, the doors behind the skirt are actually white.) I'm sure I could bleach it back to pure white but I prefer not to stress the material with harsh chemicals.

[Mama Mia]

My middle schooler goes to a Title 1 (that means over a certain percentage low-income) public school and they have uniforms. They don't involve blazers and ties... it's just khaki pants or skirts with a black, white, or orange polo. Any brand is fine. You can get this stuff at Target, Old Navy, etc. Not a burden, and we keep a hand-me-down closet as well... not sure if that stuff is given out free if needed but usually they resell it pretty cheap. (Oh, in the winter they wear long-sleeved polos or a school-logo sweatshirt). I love it... it's so easy for me.

Many of our local schools also have uniforms. And, like yours, they aren't made up of $90 blazers or $40 pAnts. Just certain colors and types that can be bought at Target or K-Mart. Interestingly, all of the public schools where I have seen uniforms are lower-income and minority majority schools.

[Mama Mia]

Being gay or straight isn't a free speech issue. It's a matter of who you are, something you can't choose.

Free speech also means you can't be punished my the government for what you say. Want to call the president a dumbass? It's fine, while in North Korea, you might get killed. But free speech doesn't mean you can saw or wear whatever you want wherever you want, or that there can't be other repercussions.

The only way this could be argued as a free speech issue is if kids were allowed to promote teen sex, but this girl can't wear a shirt about virginity. Since the application is equal, you've got not case.

And again, it's extremely fucked up that you can't see how being openly gay is not the same as advertising your sex life.

Middle Schools often have posters promoting Safer Sex, how is that any different?

The problem I have with them not allowing the t-shirt is that the reason they give is that it might provoke discussion -- God Forbid young people have actual discussions !

[DGayle]

Middle Schools often have posters promoting Safer Sex, how is that any different?

The problem I have with them not allowing the t-shirt is that the reason they give is that it might provoke discussion -- God Forbid young people have actual discussions !

In a country where abstinence-only education reigns supreme, what middle schools are you around that allow safer sex posters? My high school wasn't even allowed to tell us condoms existed, and things have gotten tougher since then. I wish we could have had comprehensive sex ed. It would have probably cut down on how many teens were parents at my school.

[Phoenix]

And how in god's name can anyone make a couple skirts last through daily wearing for 4 years? Honestly, I'm calling BS on that. I'm not hard on my clothes, but I can only get a pair of good jeans to last a year if I don't wear them more than a couple times a week, wash on a gentle, cold cycle, and hang to dry. A couple skirts, 4 years, that's 300-400 wearings each, and the laundering is either close to half that number, or I'm going to worry about sanitation.

Uniforms can make it nice not to think about what to wear, but in a lot of areas, it's just not going to be the solution any more than a reasonable dress code. When I was in high school, graphic t-shirts and words that didn't have to do with the school or sports teams weren't allowed. Nothing showing midriffs, nothing cut lower than 3 of your own fingers below collar bone, all shorts and skirts had to be at least as long as your own fingertips at your side, and nothing see-through. That was the entire dress code, applied to everyone, and problems were extremely rare.

[Mama Mia]

In a country where abstinence-only education reigns supreme, what middle schools are you around that allow safer sex posters? My high school wasn't even allowed to tell us condoms existed, and things have gotten tougher since then. I wish we could have had comprehensive sex ed. It would have probably cut down on how many teens were parents at my school.

At my kids middle school they had comprehensive sex education as part of some class called "Choices and Changes" - or something along those lines. It covered sex ed- including birth control- substance abuse, abuse in general, basic mental health, dangers of smoking, healthy eating, peer pressure --- all that sort of thing. That was about ten years ago. They had Safer Sex posters the same way they had Say no to Drugs type posters, and Don't Bully posters and Suicide Hotline posters and those triangle Safe Space Posters.

At the high school some of my kids went to they had a health clinic, where they could get free birth control.

[Miggy]

Can I ask, those who were (or whose children are) educated in abstinence only sex ed, are you actually taught anything or is it just "there's this thing called sex but don't do it"? I am wondering if, for example, you are taught about how fertility works. I can see that learning about it might encourage natural planning which wouldn't fit with abstinence only but it's also useful knowledge when you want to conceive.

I was educated in super liberal Australia with regular sex ed lessons from year 3 onwards. (8 years old) I just can't get my head around kids making sensible decisions without education. (I am sure many parents do a great job educating their kids but there would be many others who do not.)

[SamE]

Our Catholic school uniforms get scraggly by the end of the school year. No one cares. Skorts get too short, hemlines on pants and shorts ravel. Not a big deal to anyone.

[Toothfairy]

Can I ask, those who were (or whose children are) educated in abstinence only sex ed, are you actually taught anything or is it just "there's this thing called sex but don't do it"? I am wondering if, for example, you are taught about how fertility works. I can see that learning about it might encourage natural planning which wouldn't fit with abstinence only but it's also useful knowledge when you want to conceive.

I was educated in super liberal Australia with regular sex ed lessons from year 3 onwards. (8 years old) I just can't get my head around kids making sensible decisions without education. (I am sure many parents do a great job educating their kids but there would be many others who do not.)

I was taught people who gave sex before marriage are used and nobody wants them anymore. It's like giving a person a used toothbrush.

[Mama Mia]

I was taught people who gave sex before marriage are used and nobody wants them anymore. It's like giving a person a used toothbrush.

Please tell me you went to a private school. Cause if that was a public school it would seem to be not only awful, but a huge waste of tax money.

[Boogalou]

I had two kilts that lasted me four years of high school. They were washed once a week or every other week and then hung to dry. They still looked good at the end of four years. But these were high quality and fairly expensive. I don't know anyone who had to buy kilts every year unless theirs didn't fit anymore.

[polecat]

Many of our local schools also have uniforms. And, like yours, they aren't made up of $90 blazers or $40 pAnts. Just certain colors and types that can be bought at Target or K-Mart. Interestingly, all of the public schools where I have seen uniforms are lower-income and minority majority schools.

Both of our city's high schools require uniforms -- khaki pants with white, maroon or navy polos. The kids always look nice and neat, and the uniforms themselves can be bought inexpensively (or expensively, if you prefer). The elementary schools don't require uniforms to my knowledge, but I'd be ok with it if they were similar to the high schools' uniforms.

[tralala]

She's "loving her husband" which means she's been told that none of this is about her, its about a man. She's in middle school, I have hope for her. I was just as obnoxious about my virginity pledge at 13 too. I never wore it on a shirt, but I thought it made me a better person blah blah blah. By the time I was 20, that had fallen by the wayside. Purity pledges don't empower you, they keep you in your place. I hope she can recognize that in time.

[Loveday]

You don't have to believe it but it's true - two skirts, four years. They are washed every two to three wears on the gentle cycle in the washing machine. I dry them outside in the shade. (I never dry black in the sun to avoid fading.) I'll admit the white isn't as white as it use to be but it doesn't stand out compared to the other girls. (The photo makes this look worse than it really is. As a comparison, the doors behind the skirt are actually white.) I'm sure I could bleach it back to pure white but I prefer not to stress the material with harsh chemicals.

My daughter wore similar plaid skirts from sixth through eighth grade at her Catholic school. I bought all of them at the school's used uniform sale/exchange, so none were new but I made sure to get ones that looked as new as possible. By the end of eighth grade, they still looked really good (she's always been very small and slow to grow, so what she wore in sixth she could still wear in eighth as I bought them slightly large to start with). So yeah, three years' wear out of a couple of skirts is entirely possible, depending on brand and quality, of course. These were fairly expensive new, around $40, but I only paid a couple bucks apiece.

[August]

You don't have to believe it but it's true - two skirts, four years. They are washed every two to three wears on the gentle cycle in the washing machine. I dry them outside in the shade. (I never dry black in the sun to avoid fading.) I'll admit the white isn't as white as it use to be but it doesn't stand out compared to the other girls. (The photo makes this look worse than it really is. As a comparison, the doors behind the skirt are actually white.) I'm sure I could bleach it back to pure white but I prefer not to stress the material with harsh chemicals.

I had three summer uniform dresses through high school, as did everyone else (some had two), and there was a uniform shop at the school, with a huge stock of used uniforms. Teenaged girls just don't grow the same way younger kids do.

[salex]

I have a question. Are Virginity Rocks similar to Ben Wa balls? :think: