Behind Enemy lines

[artdecades]

Is there anything that fundies won't compare to the Holocaust? :roll:

actual genocides

[longtimelurker6]

Hi! Many-year lurker de-lurking here. I think this dude may be trying to force a court case.

See, this reminds me vaguely of something from an Education Law class I took 20+ years ago. (A class for teachers, not lawyers.) We studied a federal case in which a teacher had written a letter to the editor about his school, and the letter contained things that weren't true. Slander, basically. The paper printed the letter and the teacher was fired. Those are the details as I remember them, ie vaguely.

I do remember, though, that the court ruled that the 1st Amendment protected the teacher's right to write the letter even if it contained lies. The case set a precedent: Public school teachers have the right to say or write negative things about their employer and that right is not dependent on the truth or falsehood of what they say.

With that precedent, it's likely that if the Wake County Schools did try to fire this teacher, they'd run into trouble. The teacher may know that and be doing this intentionally.

In my experience working in public schools, their best bet may to re-assign him to some non-teaching duty, like hallway monitor or something. At full salary. What a treat for the tax-payers.

[thoughtful]

He has written a book, praised by Kevin Swanson:

“Convincing a Christian family to get out of the public schools is an uphill battle all the way, but Ray Fournier is willing to take the challenge. In this book, Ray lays out the case complete with Biblical texts. If this will convince and convict one family to give their children a Christian nurture and discipleship, it will be worth every printed word.â€

and Samuel Blumenfeld:

"An important message for Christian parents with children in the public schools. The aim of these atheistic schools is to deChristianize your children and lead them into a life of sin and enslavement to Satan. Parents who permit this to happen to their own children will suffer the consequences. Read this book and save the souls of your children."

If you don't know who Blumenfeld is, check out this article from 1985:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 95,6420146

Yes, the entire point to modern public education is to carefully keep children undereducated so they can be controlled by the Socialist government, and Satan is behind it. Not too paranoid, eh? :roll:

And, of course, the original page that Debrand posted is from the Pearls' site.

Great bedfellows, Fournier. :roll:

I'm sure that wanting Mike Pearl to help you flog the book had nothing to do with your post on his site. :roll:

Here is the site for his book:

educationreformation.org/

There's a blog, if anyone wants to wade in. I bet that, somewhere in there, he justifies why he still drags his hypocritical carcass into a public school every day. I'm sure it's all about being a light in the darkness, not money, and that he bravely defies his superiors every day. :roll:

And I am so grateful for the eyeroll smiley, because I'd be aching if I rolled mine as many times as needed for this cesspool of crap.

[freehannie]

This guy got his education degree from my alma mater, EMU. I am horrified. When I was there, it was the number one teacher producer in the nation and a great place to learn how to teach. I wonder if he was this insufferable there because my experience was that fools really weren't tolerated by the vast majority of students who were mostly working class kids, the first of their families to go to college. And he briefly taught at a great school in Ann Arbor where I can't imagine his views were popular either.

[August]

I didnt' even learn to be a lesbian and went to public school for my entire schooling career!

Not only high school but university as well and not even a twinge of gayness. It's almost as if your sexual orientation were, like, inborn or something.

[Four is Enough]

There's a Ray Fournier who teaches Science at Fuquay Varina High School in NC.

Yup, it's him. Here's his resume-

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... GU&cad=rja

Good God, I have a friend whose children attend that high school. MUST WARN...

[RosyDaisy]

I'm still waiting for the Pearls fall from grace. Sooner or later Mikey will slip up and get himself in trouble, and it won't be because of his books either.

[formergothardite]

If parents complained or it got into newspapers that a local teacher compares public schools to concentration camps and says that the teachers are guards and the school system thinks he would make trouble if fired, they will just move him around to various schools and positions to make his life a living hell until he quits. But I doubt this guy will quit.

[debrand]

For anyone who is curious, Fuquay is pronounced Foo Qway. If I was a resident, I would petition to change the name to something that couldn't accidentally be read as fuck.

The town is close to the Research Triangle which means that Fournier probably has some students whose parents are well educated and probably have no idea that their children aren't being taught scientific facts.

[NCMoon]

Hey, long time lurker, first time poster, and local to this. I've forwarded everything it along to the principal and others in charge and they're looking into it, parents who do know about this are indeed furious (as are staff), and no this is not the norm for this particular area of NC. Also it's few-kway-vah-REE-nah, or just FV, took me a bit of getting used to but all the syllables kind of run together. WCPSS is a super sized school system with roughly 170 schools so going straight to the school then to the next level up if that doesn't work is likely your best bet. I wouldn't be surprised if this started making local news soon but I'm hoping the school has time to figure out what to do with him first.

FTR, NC is pretty divided. The urban areas, like here, tend to lean toward progressive, open, accepting. The rural areas tend to be the opposite. This school is right on the edge, still technically in the large urban area because of the school system but not really. Not saying the school is a lost cause (I hope not!) but WCPSS schools often have LGBT clubs, open staff, celebrate diversity, crack down hard on bullying, etc. I'm honestly surprised that he hasn't left to teach at any of the numerous Christian private schools or conservative homeschool co-ops. Happy to update with any public local info if people are interested.

[formergothardite]

Hey, long time lurker, first time poster, and local to this. I've forwarded everything it along to the principal and others in charge and they're looking into it, parents who do know about this are indeed furious (as are staff), and no this is not the norm for this particular area of NC. Also it's few-kway-vah-REE-nah, or just FV, took me a bit of getting used to but all the syllables kind of run together. WCPSS is a super sized school system with roughly 170 schools so going straight to the school then to the next level up if that doesn't work is likely your best bet. I wouldn't be surprised if this started making local news soon but I'm hoping the school has time to figure out what to do with him first.

FTR, NC is pretty divided. The urban areas, like here, tend to lean toward progressive, open, accepting. The rural areas tend to be the opposite. This school is right on the edge, still technically in the large urban area because of the school system but not really. Not saying the school is a lost cause (I hope not!) but WCPSS schools often have LGBT clubs, open staff, celebrate diversity, crack down hard on bullying, etc. I'm honestly surprised that he hasn't left to teach at any of the numerous Christian private schools or conservative homeschool co-ops. Happy to update with any public local info if people are interested.

Thanks! I suspect that he won't leave unless he is fired and then he will cry persecution. I would be horrified to find out that one of my children's teachers came in every day thinking he was in a mission field trying to "save" the poor public school students.

[NCMoon]

Thanks! I suspect that he won't leave unless he is fired and then he will cry persecution. I would be horrified to find out that one of my children's teachers came in every day thinking he was in a mission field trying to "save" the poor public school students.

I'm half convinced that he is HOPING to get fired, in order to sell his book, his homeschool classes (taught in another small Wake Co town), and himself. I have heard rumors that he's gotten numerous complaints in the past but I can't find anything on him publicly. It's possible he thought he could get away with anything at this point too. Or he's just straight nuts. I'm hoping for the last one, but the publicity one is more likely IMO :roll:

[Walking Cat Bed]

Hey, long time lurker, first time poster, and local to this. I've forwarded everything it along to the principal and others in charge and they're looking into it, parents who do know about this are indeed furious (as are staff), and no this is not the norm for this particular area of NC. Also it's few-kway-vah-REE-nah, or just FV, took me a bit of getting used to but all the syllables kind of run together. WCPSS is a super sized school system with roughly 170 schools so going straight to the school then to the next level up if that doesn't work is likely your best bet. I wouldn't be surprised if this started making local news soon but I'm hoping the school has time to figure out what to do with him first.

FTR, NC is pretty divided. The urban areas, like here, tend to lean toward progressive, open, accepting. The rural areas tend to be the opposite. This school is right on the edge, still technically in the large urban area because of the school system but not really. Not saying the school is a lost cause (I hope not!) but WCPSS schools often have LGBT clubs, open staff, celebrate diversity, crack down hard on bullying, etc. I'm honestly surprised that he hasn't left to teach at any of the numerous Christian private schools or conservative homeschool co-ops. Happy to update with any public local info if people are interested.

I'm also local, and didn't imagine he was teaching in the city of Raleigh with that attitude; it's a very, very diverse city (there's a HUGE Indian/South Asian population, a significant Muslim population, and sizable African American population, with a good percentage from each in the "highly educated" bracket). I would have been very surprised if he'd gotten away with this for any length of time in, say, Cary or North Raleigh.

I *have* noticed that a lot of the Good Ol' Boy military veterans tend to live in Fuquay (which I've also heard pronounced Few-Kway), because it's less "threatening" or "liberal"; however, that doesn't mean that everyone's going along with this guy.

[docmom]

I did start to lose my christian faith in high school, but it wasn't because of the dedicated atheistic teachers plotting with Satan. It was because almost everyone in my immediate friendship circle became fundie or fundie lite. The day they abducted me to convince me to become born again was the day I started questioning the faith.

[browncoatslytherin]

So he compares public schools to a concentration camp, which is bad enough, but that same "concentration camp" signs his paychecks? Fine ethics he has there.

qft, that's exactly what i was thinking. how noble of him.

[artdecades]

Hey, long time lurker, first time poster, and local to this. I've forwarded everything it along to the principal and others in charge and they're looking into it, parents who do know about this are indeed furious (as are staff), and no this is not the norm for this particular area of NC. Also it's few-kway-vah-REE-nah, or just FV, took me a bit of getting used to but all the syllables kind of run together. WCPSS is a super sized school system with roughly 170 schools so going straight to the school then to the next level up if that doesn't work is likely your best bet. I wouldn't be surprised if this started making local news soon but I'm hoping the school has time to figure out what to do with him first.

FTR, NC is pretty divided. The urban areas, like here, tend to lean toward progressive, open, accepting. The rural areas tend to be the opposite. This school is right on the edge, still technically in the large urban area because of the school system but not really. Not saying the school is a lost cause (I hope not!) but WCPSS schools often have LGBT clubs, open staff, celebrate diversity, crack down hard on bullying, etc. I'm honestly surprised that he hasn't left to teach at any of the numerous Christian private schools or conservative homeschool co-ops. Happy to update with any public local info if people are interested.

I appreciate the local perspective as well as any follow ups. He crossed the line when he compared the schools to concentration camps. As a Jewish woman, I am very offended by these comparisons and feel they minimize and dismiss the Shoah. He can argue freedom of religion all he wants, but that is not ok.

[thoughtful]

Thanks for the local input, NCMoon and Walking Cat Bet (WCB, have I ever told you how much I love your user name?).

And (forgot to say this earlier), as always, thanks for keeping an eye on the Pearls' website and bringing their dangerous ideas to our attention, Debrand.

Oh, and I did figure out how the name of the school was actually pronounced -- I just still couldn't resist the obvious crack.

Clearly, this guy has a whole weird game plan of some sort -- his kind of thinking is just beyond me.

edited to fix typo

[HoneyBunny]

I appreciate the local perspective as well as any follow ups. He crossed the line when he compared the schools to concentration camps. As a Jewish woman, I am very offended by these comparisons and feel they minimize and dismiss the Shoah. He can argue freedom of religion all he wants, but that is not ok.

I so agree, and feel the same way about the term "war on" such as war on Christmas or war on Christians. It belittles the experiences of anyone who has been involved in a REAL war, been a victim of REAL persecution, etc.

With deepest apologies to those who live in the area, I lasted 8 months in the RTP, NC area after graduate school. I finally had one too many people telling me they were a "Christian' while digging a knife into my back to stay a minute longer.

[thoughtful]

Walking Cat Bet (WCB, have I ever told you how much I love your user name?

Gee, since I like your name so much, you'd think I'd notice my typo! I meant bed, of course.

[Walking Cat Bed]

Gee, since I like your name so much, you'd think I'd notice my typo! I meant bed, of course.

No problem :) I figured it's accurate. My roommate's cat tends to see any lack of movement (sitting, sleeping, standing) as an invitation to flop on the closest limb.

[Arete]

I'll take "trying to get his ass fired so he can bring a lawsuit while building street cred in the wingnut homeschool community" for 500, Alex.

He then rides the gravy train in speaking fees and love offerings. Man with a plan.

[thoughtful]

No problem :) I figured it's accurate. My roommate's cat tends to see any lack of movement (sitting, sleeping, standing) as an invitation to flop on the closest limb.

That's what I was picturing!

I suspect I am just a pair of hands (for petting or feeding), and the rest of me is mostly incidental, to my dog and bird.

[lemonhead]

He also finds time to teach homeschool classes on such topics as Biblical Worldview, Apologetics, and Evangelism Training and Spanish [various levels] with a Biblical Worldview: educationreformation.org/classes.htm

How on earth does he find time to do that, in addition to teaching at the EPS? My kids' teachers are at the school for hours after the kids are dismissed.

[Soulhuntress]

He also finds time to teach homeschool classes on such topics as Biblical Worldview, Apologetics, and Evangelism Training and Spanish [various levels] with a Biblical Worldview: educationreformation.org/classes.htm

How on earth does he find time to do that, in addition to teaching at the EPS? My kids' teachers are at the school for hours after the kids are dismissed.

Tenure is a very very bad thing at times. He is That Teacher. He has too many years in the district and they cannot force him out without him doing something awful (sleeping with a student type awful) and his classes have to be horrid is my guess. :pink-shock:

[freejingerbeth]

I might have just tweeted his Concentration Camp quote to his high school AND school board...

Awesome! :clap: :dance: