10 Shraders in Zambia and counting...

[Howl]

I agree, sometimes yes. The world is getting smaller and people in developing countries will see American/foreign movies and name children after movie stars.

When looking up Zambian expressions and slang, it turns out that to MacGyver something has the exact same meaning in Zambia that it does in the US. Actually, Zambians probably have more opportunity to MacGyver something than Americans ever will.

[Palimpsest]

The only area of Africa never colonized by Europeans was Ethiopia, and they were occupied for awhile by the Italians but never fully colonized. It is not uncommon to see names of European origin in the areas where colonization occurred. One of my W. African sons has a tribal name, the other has an Anglican Christian name, both names were given by their tribal birth parents.

Agreed. The Italian Occupation of Ethiopia lasted 5 years and was hardly effective colonization! The Italians did build some rather good roads while they were there though.

One gentle suggestion as you have sons who were originally from W. Africa -- and you may already know this -- you might want to err on the side of caution re. using the word "tribal." Unless referring to a specific tribe by name I usually say "indigenous" as a safer all-purpose and inclusive term.

I know it sounds hairsplitting but the word tribal used incorrectly can be thought a pejorative. See this rather good article:

http://allafrica.com/stories/200101080391.html

And a good description of the difference in meaning between "tribal" and "indigenous" can be found here: http://www.survivalinternational.org/info/terminology

[utter solitude]

Sometimes it seems there's something of a similar trend in my area... Americans trying to give their child a "cultured" name, or at least using a "foreign" spelling. André, Sabine, etc.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

In Malawi, the literacy level of the person naming the child (not necessarily the parents) came into play and made for some fascinating names. Candle and Basket were among the folks I met. I know a few "Europeans"(not sure of nationality) who gave their kids local names as middle names. I found this a bit show-off....but at least the put it in the middle name.

[It'sFunToRun]

In Malawi, the literacy level of the person naming the child (not necessarily the parents) came into play and made for some fascinating names. Candle and Basket were among the folks I met. I know a few "Europeans"(not sure of nationality) who gave their kids local names as middle names. I found this a bit show-off....but at least the put it in the middle name.

Candle is kinda cute. I can see it having a meaning like "bright" or "illuminating".

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Slightly OT: I had to come out of lurkdom to share that I finally read The Poisonwood Bible after the many references to it in Shrader threads. Just finished it today.

Um, you guys? Approximately when will I stop crying? What a beautiful, heartbreaking book. Holy hell. :shock:

[Mitz_]

Slightly OT: I had to come out of lurkdom to share that I finally read The Poisonwood Bible after the many references to it in Shrader threads. Just finished it today.

Um, you guys? Approximately when will I stop crying? What a beautiful, heartbreaking book. Holy hell. :shock:

It's a great book isn't it? It would make an epic screen play. John Schrader could play Nathan Price.

[Palimpsest]

Welcome back OnceModestTwiceShy. Nice to see you again. I wondered what had happened to you.

I think discussion of the Poisonwood Bible is right on topic. :)

It's been a while since I read it, but I'd say it's a good book not a great one. I'd give it a 3 on a 5 point scale. I know I much preferred the first half and thought that the second half lost stream.

Kinsolver did an excellent job with Nathan Price of portraying an arrogant, uninformed, unsupervised, totally off-the rails independent missionary type. A perfect portrait of John Shrader, which is why we've referred to it so much here.

It's a type that used to be quite rare, but now these IFB missionaries are flocking to developing countries, a more common sight. In the old days, that type did not last long. They usually killed themselves, and sadly some family members, too in short order just like in the PB. Or they were rescued from their stupidity with generosity (and a lot of complaining) by other expats and missionaries.

I gave the book to my late mother to read when it was first published. (She and my late father were missionaries in the former Belgian Congo for 10 and 15 +/- years respectively, both before and after they married, and leaving about the time the fictional Nathan Price arrived.) Her very indignant response to it was roughly -- not all missionaries were like that. For us it was the medicine first and the Gospel was a distant second. We spoke Kikongo, knew what we were doing, were responsible to our mission, and we certainly weren't that stupid!

Point very well taken, mother. However, I certainly remember having to interpret cultural issues and translate for my parents as a child later on when we moved to another developing country. We children picked up the language much faster than adults and were sometimes asked by nationals to explain the finer points of things to our parents. Kinsolver got those parts very right too.

Interestingly enough at the end of her life my mother volunteered that she sort of regretted the spreading of the Gospel she had indulged in as a missionary. It was along the lines of -- we didn't really think things though, we just wanted to help people medically but we were very culturally insensitive. She was a lovely person.

I would also say that there are some pesky little historical errors and some clumsy over-simplistic cultural assumptions in the Poisonwood Bible. I wouldn't regard it as a good book to rely on for the history of DR Congo and Zaire or as a good take on the culture of the indigenous peoples there.

That said, politically I absolutely agree with the book, think Kinsolver did a very good job, and that John is certainly a dead ringer for Nathan Price. It should be required reading for all missionaries.

[chaotic life]

Unless referring to a specific tribe by name I usually say "indigenous" as a safer all-purpose and inclusive term.

Actually, I was referring directly to my sons, both of whom I know exactly what their tribes are, but am not going to identify their tribes publically here. I consider that part of protecting their privacy. The son with a tribal name also has scarring that his tribe uses as markers to identify tribal members, but again, the only word I can fully use without identifying either of their tribes is tribal, thus the use of the word in this case.

[It'sFunToRun]

Actually, I was referring directly to my sons, both of whom I know exactly what their tribes are, but am not going to identify their tribes publically here. I consider that part of protecting their privacy. The son with a tribal name also has scarring that his tribe uses as markers to identify tribal members, but again, the only word I can fully use without identifying either of their tribes is tribal, thus the use of the word in this case.

We all have tribal scarring, most just take more time to be apparent.

[already hungover]

Slightly OT: I had to come out of lurkdom to share that I finally read The Poisonwood Bible after the many references to it in Shrader threads. Just finished it today.

Um, you guys? Approximately when will I stop crying? What a beautiful, heartbreaking book. Holy hell. :shock:

You won't. Such a beautiful book.

[Pretzel]

Are there Ebola infections in Zambia? :? I wonder if they even realize the dangers of infection diseases in Africa. I doubt it, they're the Shraders. :whistle:

[Justme]

The Hot Zone: The Terrifying True Story of the Origins of the Ebola Virus by Richard Preston

from Amazon:

The bestselling landmark account of the first emergence of the Ebola virus. A highly infectious, deadly virus from the central African rain forest suddenly appears in the suburbs of Washington, D.C. There is no cure. In a few days 90 percent of its victims are dead. A secret military SWAT team of soldiers and scientists is mobilized to stop the outbreak of this exotic "hot" virus. The Hot Zone tells this dramatic story, giving a hair-raising account of the appearance of rare and lethal viruses and their "crashes" into the human race. Shocking, frightening, and impossible to ignore, The Hot Zone proves that truth really is scarier than fiction.

I'm in the middle of reading this book. It tells the history of the discovery of Ebola and it's sister viruses. Warning, it does get a bit graphic when describing what happens to the human body.

Check it out.

[formergothardite]

You won't. Such a beautiful book.

It is. And I really wish ShraderFriend would read it. It might give him a better perspective on what John is doing to his children. I think people like him avoid books like that because they don't want to think too hard about the ramifications of unskilled, unprepared, missionaries who think they know everything dragging their children into dangerous situations.

[Mitz_]

(Ravenous ants had swarmed over the village devouring everything in their path and forcing everyone into the river.) From chapter 11:

"But Anatole said suddenly, "Don't expect God's protection in places beyond God's dominion. It will only make you feel punished. I'm warning you.When things go badly, you will blame yourself"

"What are you telling me?"

"I am telling you what I'm telling you. Don't try to make life a mathematics problem with yourself in the center and everything coming out equal. When you are good, bad things can still happen. And if you are bad, you can still be lucky."

I could see what he thought: that my faith injustice was childish, no more useful here than tires on a horse. I felt the breath of God grow cold on my skin. "We never should have come here," I said. "We're just fools that have gotten by so far on dumb luck. That's what you think, isn't it?"

"I will not answer that."

"Then you mean no. We shouldn't have come."

"No, you shouldn't. But you are here, so yes, you should be here. There are more words in the world than no and yes."

"You're the only one here who'll even talk to us, Anatole! Nobody else cares about us, Anatole!"

"Tata Boanda is carrying your mother and sister in his boat. Tata Lekulu is rowing his boat with leaves stuffed in his ears while your father lectures him on loving the Lord. Nevertheless, Tata Lekulu is carrying him to safety. Did you know, Mama Mwanza sometimes puts eggs from her own chickens under your hens when you aren't looking? How can you say no one cares about you?"

"Mama Mwanza does that? How do you know?"

He didn't say. I was stupid not to have figured it out. Nelson sometimes found oranges and manioc and even meat in our kitchen house when nothing was there the night before. I suppose we believed so hard in God's providence that we just accepted miracles in our favor.

"You shouldn't have come here, Beene, but you are here and nobody in Kilanga wants you to starve. They understand that white people make very troublesome ghosts."

[chaotic life]

It's been 20 years since I read The Poisonwood Bible. While the finite details are less clear now, it's one of those books that stays with you permanently, imo.

[lilith]

It's been 20 years since I read The Poisonwood Bible. While the finite details are less clear now, it's one of those books that stays with you permanently, imo.

I re read it after about a year ago, inspired by Schrader's preparations. It's a beautiful, insightful story.

[slickcat79]

John is getting the runaround from the shipping company about the container. He finally determined that it's currently in Namibia, but he expects it will arrive at the HotH in about a week. I won't be holding my breath.

He also reposted this anti-contemporary Christian music article, which is mostly about the author's enormous hate-on for the Beatles :? I have no idea what this has to do with John's life or mission in any way.

We believe it is absolutely unconscionable for Christian musicians to encourage an appetite for Beatles’ music in young people. No rock group has had a more spiritually-destructive influence than the Beatles. They were certainly controlled by demons as they captured the affection of an entire generation with their “magical mystery†music and carried millions of young people along on their journey to free sex, unisex, eastern religion, atheism, drug abuse, and rebellion against established order.

wayoflife.org/database/beatles_and_ccm.html

John has started signing many of his posts "Kapolo John" because he is "a slave of the African people" :roll:

[lilith]

John is getting the runaround from the shipping company about the container. He finally determined that it's currently in Namibia, but he expects it will arrive at the HotH in about a week. I won't be holding my breath.

He also reposted this anti-contemporary Christian music article, which is mostly about the author's enormous hate-on for the Beatles :? I have no idea what this has to do with John's life or mission in any way.

wayoflife.org/database/beatles_and_ccm.html

John has started signing many of his posts "Kapolo John" because he is "a slave of the African people" :roll:

Oh god. That made me wince.

[It'sFunToRun]

Oh god. That made me wince.

That's called "Fremdscham", btw.

{L_OFFTOPIC} :

Fremdscham: Embarrassment felt on behalf of someone else (often someone so ignorant to what they have done that they don’t know that they should be embarrassed for themselves); vicarious embarrassment.

[Mitz_]

Well, I can see why they are so upset since religion is all about magic and mystery not having a place in life. Everything has to have a reason and an answer. A plan. If there isn't a reason or answer then it's a miracle. Everything is because Jesus...unless it's bad, like cancer or kissing before you are married... Or Beatles music. Then it's the devil. :twisted:

Is there anything in the bible about what kind of music Jesus likes? Fundys say something about the beat, no?

[formergothardite]

John is getting the runaround from the shipping company about the container. He finally determined that it's currently in Namibia, but he expects it will arrive at the HotH in about a week. I won't be holding my breath.

He also reposted this anti-contemporary Christian music article, which is mostly about the author's enormous hate-on for the Beatles :? I have no idea what this has to do with John's life or mission in any way.

wayoflife.org/database/beatles_and_ccm.html

John has started signing many of his posts "Kapolo John" because he is "a slave of the African people" :roll:

Because rock music is a demonic force that came to America from African slaves. So he probably thinks that he is living among the evil rock music demons.

[It'sFunToRun]

Well, I can see why they are so upset since religion is all about magic and mystery not having a place in life. Everything has to have a reason and an answer. A plan. If there isn't a reason or answer then it's a miracle. Everything is because Jesus...unless it's bad, like cancer or kissing before you are married... Or Beatles music. Then it's the devil. :twisted:

Is there anything in the bible about what kind of music Jesus likes? Fundys say something about the beat, no?

There's an old joke: An ultra-Orthodox Jewish couple goes to their rabbi, "Rabbi, we've been married for a few years now, and we're having trouble keeping interest in the bedroom. We were wondering if it's okay to have sex with the woman on top." "Sure", the Rabbi said. "Can we have sex on the bedroom floor?" "Yes." "Can we have sex sitting in a chair?" "Yes." "Can we have sex on the kitchen table?" "Yes." "Can we have sex standing up?" "No!" the rabbi exclaims harshly. "That might lead to mixed (gender) dancing!"

[SPHASH]

Because rock music is a demonic force that came to America from African slaves. So he probably thinks that he is living among the evil rock music demons.

That's rich for John considering the King of Rock and Roll came from Tupelo MS, was a white guy and also sang gospel.

[Trynn]

Just started reading the Poisonwood Bible. I must say, the Price Family doesn't seem much like the Shrader family in that they are waaaayyy more prepared. After all, THEIR kids get anti malarial tablets.

The cultural insensitivity though? Ouch.

I wanted to slap the father, and I'm not Leah's biggest fan, even though I was most like her at one point. Adah and Rachel are the most interesting to me. Rachel strikes me as the most honest, and Adah's just cool. Even before she explained palindromes I was reading backwards a little and going oh, she likes palindromes.

5 sentences later...

I haven't got that far into it yet, but I was up late with a stomach ache, so I read half the first chapter.