Why Jill First?

[daniee]

I think Jill was jealous of Jessa and couldn't let her "little sister" marry first. Jill is definitely jealous of Jessa's looks, she mentioned it in one of the book interviews. And by the way Jill never lets anyone else (especially Jana) speak...I would say she likes the attention for herself and couldn't stand a different Duggar girl getting married first.

But I do think she genuinely love Derrick and Derrick loves her, I just don't think the engagement/wedding would have happened so fast if Jessa wasn't in a courtship first and getting all the attention from that.

[Cassia]

Ehhh, I wouldn't say it's a normal time frame compared to the Bates family's relationships. The Bates family knew the Paine, Webster, and Klein(?) families IN PERSON before any of their children became romantically involved with each other, in most of those cases for at least a year. The only one who comes close to having such a speedy dating -> engagement -> marriage phase is Zach and I'll just flat out say my view on that now: Whitney is TOTALLY Zach's rebound from Sarah. Except in their world you can't rebound with a one night stand, you're pretty much forced to marry them. Don't get me wrong, Zach and Whitney look happy and in love but they are still just...so NEW to each other.

The same can be said of Jill and Derick. They went from hardly knowing the other even exists to marriage in 10 months. Why the rush? (No need to answer, we ALL know WHY the rush. Sigh)

Plain and simple - they are not considered adults in their world until they are married. Not allowed to move out, not allowed to hold hands with a boy, not allowed to go shopping on their own, not allowed to go to school... What a stifling, over-bearing way to have to live as a LEGAL adult. Unless these girls are ready to stand up to their father and tell him to ever so politely BITE ME, marriage is the only feasible way to escape the compound.

So sad.

[singsingsing]

I think Jill was jealous of Jessa and couldn't let her "little sister" marry first. Jill is definitely jealous of Jessa's looks, she mentioned it in one of the book interviews. And by the way Jill never lets anyone else (especially Jana) speak...I would say she likes the attention for herself and couldn't stand a different Duggar girl getting married first.

This is not the impression I get of Jill at all. I can't imagine her being that vindictive and petty. She's just never remotely come across that way.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

OR she's just getting married first because she was ASKED first. I highly doubt that Jill said to Derick "We have to get married first, quick propose to me! That way I can be first!"

Derick and Jill are just more ready for the commitment of marriage at this moment than Jessa and Ben (assuming Jessa and Ben haven't already gotten engaged but they're keeping it quiet for ratings nonsense). That DOESNT mean there is anything wrong with Ben and Jessa. Just because they're not fundie typical doesnt mean they're destined for failure. Nor does it mean that Jill is trying to one up her sister.

When you have two couples courting in short succession, you're going to have one get engaged first, regardless of how well the other one is doing.

[Brittany15]

I think Derick and Jill want to get married quickly as it is necessary for their plans. I suspect the two of them would like to go back overseas somewhere. They would not be allowed to do this without being married. I also think the fact that one sister can have a quick engagement and one not as quick actually makes them a little more normal. Just because they are sisters does not mean they have to operate on the same time line!

[ADoyle90815]

OR she's just getting married first because she was ASKED first. I highly doubt that Jill said to Derick "We have to get married first, quick propose to me! That way I can be first!"

Derick and Jill are just more ready for the commitment of marriage at this moment than Jessa and Ben (assuming Jessa and Ben haven't already gotten engaged but they're keeping it quiet for ratings nonsense). That DOESNT mean there is anything wrong with Ben and Jessa. Just because they're not fundie typical doesnt mean they're destined for failure. Nor does it mean that Jill is trying to one up her sister.

When you have two couples courting in short succession, you're going to have one get engaged first, regardless of how well the other one is doing.

That's also what I think, that Derick asked first, and since he's older, he'll be able to support Jill. Ben is also still pretty young, and I think is still in college, so he's probably hoping to get a little more of his education finished before he gets married, so he could be a better provider.

[flojo]

I think everyone is forgetting that Ben is probably getting paid by TLC. Bet it's WAY more money than he's earning with his wind shield repair business. Each time he steps in front of the camera it's, $$$$. That's money he is probably stashing for his "future" with Jessa. Didn't someone say he is transferring to Arkansas State, which is just 15 miles from the Duggars? I can't remember where I read that. Plus there have been recent instagram pics of them looking "fond" of each other at the moment. I just got a feeling he may love her more than she loves him.

This is what I was thinking. Careful management of Dog and Pony show money, plus the "love offerings" they are likely to get at fundie/evangelical speaking events means that Jessa effectively comes with a built in income. By the time that money completely dries up (episodes, speaking etc etc.) he should be done with Uni.

Not that I think it's a good idea, but I don't think financial worries are the largest concern. I also hope Jessa may coincidentally have a lot of headaches during her most fertile days (not that that is foolproof - I may be halfway through a pregnancy from that myself at the moment :whistle:. Still FAR better than not )

[Mama Mia]

This is what I was thinking. Careful management of Dog and Pony show money, plus the "love offerings" they are likely to get at fundie/evangelical speaking events means that Jessa effectively comes with a built in income. By the time that money completely dries up (episodes, speaking etc etc.) he should be done with Uni.

Not that I think it's a good idea, but I don't think financial worries are the largest concern. I also hope Jessa may coincidentally have a lot of headaches during her most fertile days (not that that is foolproof - I may be halfway through a pregnancy from that myself at the moment :whistle:. Still FAR better than not )

I agree. They make money from the show. I'm sure they'll get a nice little nest egg from any wedding episode, and on top of the TLC job, her parents own several rental properties. They are in a much better position financially than most young couples.

[LilyRose]

Wow, I did not know that. Her interest and skill in that area really came across in the video, and I could totally picture her working in a salon. How depressing that so many doors are just slammed in these young women's faces...

What I found especially depressing about it is the "beautician" is (so far as I'm aware) a Gothard approved occupation for a woman, so she probably thought that it was a realistic goal. It would also have been a useful skill to have for an ATI/fundie wife because after she got married and had kids she could have used her skills to earn a bit of extra money doing peoples hair at home, or make up for weddings etc.

Because Jessa is one of the more "sparky" girls I can see Jim Bob refusing to allow it on the grounds of it exposing her to too many worldly things and possibly gaining a desire to have a more normal life. I've always wondered if one of the reasons Jill is allowed so much freedom with her midwifery is because she seems to be the most genuinely devout, so JB and M don't worry about her being tempted by worldly things she encounters while doing her job.

But on the whole why Jill first issue- I think it's as simple as Derrick asked first because he's in a position to marry and Ben is not

[Toothfairy]

Ben is a child. Jessa and Ben is more like a crush. Derrick is 25 went to college and has experience. Ben is still in college, has no real source of income and is still experiencing new things. For a kid his age marriage should be far from his mind. Derrick is much older. I do thinks it ridiculous to rush things. If Jill really wants to get hitched ASAP then just get a marriage license and do the wedding later.

[16strong]

Ben is a child. Jessa and Ben is more like a crush. Derrick is 25 went to college and has experience. Ben is still in college, has no real source of income and is still experiencing new things. For a kid his age marriage should be far from his mind. Derrick is much older. I do thinks it ridiculous to rush things. If Jill really wants to get hitched ASAP then just get a marriage license and do the wedding later.

Oh no no no no no. That would never fly in Fundiestan. And even if they did get a marriage license, Boob and J'chelle would never allow the couple to live together until the actual ceremony took place.

[jerkit]

Getting a marriage license is NOT a license to live together. Oh no way, no how. They have to get married, in a church, in a white dress, and have their first kiss filmed before it's legit. An elopement is a nice word for "still living in sin."

[itsnotmeitsu]

Ben can't be making that much money at the insurance agency, let alone part-time. That particular position runs, here, in a much more affluent area, about $26K, and you can't support a family on that. He could potentially make more money if he gets his insurance agent license, but that's not easy, and State Farm has lots of rules before you can buy an agency--I am sure other companies are the same way. Plus, with his age and his comments about abortion, he is going to have a limited pool of people who would let him be their agent. I'd yank my policies from him if he bought my agent's book of business. I applaud Jessa for taking it slow--I'm sure some part of her realizes his family is a bunch of famewhores, trying to use the Duggars to get their agenda across. Otherwise, why would they come with them to the wedding of the Duggar friends, and get on camera? Completely inappropriate.

[singsingsing]

Ben can't be making that much money at the insurance agency, let alone part-time. That particular position runs, here, in a much more affluent area, about $26K, and you can't support a family on that. He could potentially make more money if he gets his insurance agent license, but that's not easy, and State Farm has lots of rules before you can buy an agency--I am sure other companies are the same way. Plus, with his age and his comments about abortion, he is going to have a limited pool of people who would let him be their agent. I'd yank my policies from him if he bought my agent's book of business. I applaud Jessa for taking it slow--I'm sure some part of her realizes his family is a bunch of famewhores, trying to use the Duggars to get their agenda across. Otherwise, why would they come with them to the wedding of the Duggar friends, and get on camera? Completely inappropriate.

To be fair, it was only Ben and his mother who went to the wedding, and I don't find that unusual or inappropriate at all given that Ben was basically Jessa's plus one, and Erin invited literally everyone. There were over a thousand people there. They were on camera because they were travelling with the Duggars and Jessa is courting Ben. TLC put them there.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I'm really tired of all these "it's just a crush" statements. First, we've only seen scenes from the beginning if the courtship. Second, we've only seen scenes where JB and/or Michelle were being rude and/or embarrassing. Third, just because both of them are reserved on camera doesn't mean that there is anything wrong. I honestly don't think it's fair to label their courtship as doomed just because they're forced to portray every aspect of their lives in an over the top staged manner. There's no way you can act normal in that situation. Even Jill's actions have been staged so far. She's just better at handling it because she has always been the "go to sister" when it comes to bein on camera.

[snuggles911]

The answer is simple. Jill and Derrick are in a position where if they get married in June and pregnant in July they won't have to worry about supporting a baby on one salary. In fact, Jill probably won't work even before getting pregnant as a lot of women in this cult go straight from being SAHD to stay-at-home wives. That would be OK as he has a college degree and job.

It would probably be much more difficult for Ben support Jessa never mind a child although we have no way of knowing what he earns and the cost of living is pretty cheap in Ark. Plus, I've heard of fundie families who will let a newlywed couple live with them for a few years while they get on their feed financially.

Of course, Jenna probably has a good amount of money stashed away from all of the years of reality TV plus the book, but she may consider that a nest egg that's only to be touched for emergencies or saved for a debt-free home. I can't imagine Jim Boob approving of her using it to support her teenage husband.

I'm surprised that Jim Boob has allowed Ben to court her in the first place given his age, but maybe he was impressed by his super conservative world views.

[Burpies]

On the Duggar family website, under each family members profile it says that Jessa wanted to be a beautician (or at least it did, not sure if it still does haven't been on there in quite a while).

I think she would have been good at it too, but I suspect that this aspiration was quashed because it would have necessitated her attending some sort of mainstream cosmetology class and from there, if she got a job, she could have wound up spending lots of time around normal ungodly folk.

I'm surprised there isn't a Gothard or fundie-approved school of beauty, they sure love their big hair! That could open a path to beauty salons in the home with only other fundies as customers. Home based business with the ability to bring in extra money and decide your clients. Sounds like a win-win to me! That makes more sense than a degree in housework. Maybe it's too worldly or not modest to go to a salon to get your hair or nails done or some such thing.

[J'ean Skirt]

Ehhh, I wouldn't say it's a normal time frame compared to the Bates family's relationships. The Bates family knew the Paine, Webster, and Klein(?) families IN PERSON before any of their children became romantically involved with each other, in most of those cases for at least a year. The only one who comes close to having such a speedy dating -> engagement -> marriage phase is Zach and I'll just flat out say my view on that now: Whitney is TOTALLY Zach's rebound from Sarah. Except in their world you can't rebound with a one night stand, you're pretty much forced to marry them. Don't get me wrong, Zach and Whitney look happy and in love but they are still just...so NEW to each other.

The same can be said of Jill and Derick. They went from hardly knowing the other even exists to marriage in 10 months. Why the rush? (No need to answer, we ALL know WHY the rush. Sigh)

Eh, it happens. My SO and I met online, talked for a couple months. We met on the spur of the moment (literally, we decided one night we should meet and he hopped on a plane and we met 7 or 8 hours later). We did the long distance thing for a few months, saw each other 3 or 4 times. We were engaged 2 months after meeting. I moved to his city a few months later and we were married just about a year after our first in-person meeting.

That was 15 years ago. So I really can't agree that fast relationships are doomed to failure. They're not always. And, well, I have no moral high ground to stand on in this case. I can make all sorts of excuses why they're different than my relationship, but are they really?

[jakesykora]

I think it might be as simple as Derick asked first

I think it's interesting - since the timing is very apparent in some of the talking heads which were filmed during taping and which have definitely been later on (in taping) or even post them viewing the episode but before full production sorts - that we even SAW the Michelle TH saying that Jessa and Ben would be their first engaged AND married couple.

It was clearly actually after the Bates wedding and there was another TH with the same colour background when she mentions Jill starting to talk to Derick, but still we see her saying Jessa and Ben would be the first to do both.

I'm curious if maybe she underestimated how strongly Jill was feeling and how quickly things would progress once Derick was home?

Or did something cause things to slow down with Ben and Jessa also?

Or is it really just timing and Derick asking first, etc?

Don't get me wrong, I think it's far, far better that Jill and Derick are marrying first (for a host of reasons) but I was surprised we saw that blatant Michelle TH.

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

I'm surprised there isn't a Gothard or fundie-approved school of beauty, they sure love their big hair! That could open a path to beauty salons in the home with only other fundies as customers. Home based business with the ability to bring in extra money and decide your clients. Sounds like a win-win to me! That makes more sense than a degree in housework. Maybe it's too worldly or not modest to go to a salon to get your hair or nails done or some such thing.

The Duggar Females got their nails done at a salon in a birthday episode. Plus Jichelle loooves to wax poetic about how girls like 'those sorts of things.'

Hmmm, I'd love to see Jessa take hair courses and open a fundie beauty home business. The haircuts she'd be doing would be mostly simple trims, possibly the odd perm. Maybe she could curl and style hair for Fundie weddings?

[lilah]

I think it is all about the show. TLC rubs that family's life. You can only do so many Duugars vist this country or around the houae howler monkey antics before the sheeple get bored. They need babies and weddings.

Ben and Jessa's courtship was desperately needed to inject some excitement. Had Derrick been around more I think he and Jill would also be in for a dragged out awkward courtship with erotic elbow rubbing. But since Derrick live far away the show has to condense their schedule

[singsingsing]

Do you really think Jim Bob would let himself be ruled so completely by TLC? Sure he enjoys the money and publicity the show brings in, but ultimately he is the patriarch and he's not going to let some secular TV network dictate his life or his children's lives. The idea that Jim Bob is some kind of puppet master controlled by TLC executives and that nothing in their lives is real is bit much. You might as well say Michelle purposefully gave herself preeclampsia because it made the show more exciting.

[Rebelwife]

Do you really think Jim Bob would let himself be ruled so completely by TLC? Sure he enjoys the money and publicity the show brings in, but ultimately he is the patriarch and he's not going to let some secular TV network dictate his life or his children's lives. The idea that Jim Bob is some kind of puppet master controlled by TLC executives and that nothing in their lives is real is bit much. You might as well say Michelle purposefully gave herself preeclampsia because it made the show more exciting.

I can't speak to the courting/wedding stuff in particular, but I do think that Boob and TLC have the same goal - ratings. I think if TLC came to him and said "we think this story line would work well and bring in viewers" he would at least consider it. If it didn't conflict too much with his beliefs, I don't think he'd have any problem following their lead.

[singsingsing]

I can't speak to the courting/wedding stuff in particular, but I do think that Boob and TLC have the same goal - ratings. I think if TLC came to him and said "we think this story line would work well and bring in viewers" he would at least consider it. If it didn't conflict too much with his beliefs, I don't think he'd have any problem following their lead.

I think up to a certain point that is absolutely true. All of their international trips were, I believe, engineered by TLC. Various other excursions and activities also seem like TLC ideas. But there's a big difference between taking the family abroad for two weeks because TLC thinks it would help ratings, and literally manufacturing a courtship and marriage for your child because TLC thinks it would help ratings. Jim Bob doesn't need TLC that much and he knows it.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I'm sure that a courtship wasn't manufactured for the show, but that it was discussed that people were losing interest and that people think it's weird to have SAHDs who are that way out of obligations to faith/family rather than things like financial constraints.

The conversation also could have happened a few years ago and it wasn't until the Bates started marrying off that the girls realized that they were at that age.

I doubt that JB would force any of his children into a marriage. Like I said before on another thread, it's not good for the brand to have a failed marriage. But, he's probably happy to finally see the girls are interested in allowing courtships to happen.

And TLC is likely just as happy, or more so, because it allows them to promote the Duggars more.