Jill Duggar and Derick Dillard Engaged! - Part 2

[sophrosyne]

I would imagine that even if Derick is a virgin, he knows to please the woman. Unlike guys raised in really conservative, controlled environments, Derick has been in the real world. He went through a public high school and onto a public college. He was the mascot at college, so he wasn't likely to be the kind that didn't hang around others much. As such, he has likely heard MANY success tales from his peers as well as many failures.

I agree that having been free (i.e. without constant accountability partners and parental censorship) on a large public university campus for four years, Derick is likely more 'worldly' than the world-travelin' Duggars or any of our fave fundie families' offspring, but in conservative Oklahoma, OK State is considered the state's most conservative public university and College Prowler lists it as 4th most conservative in Oklahoma, behind Oral Roberts, Oklahoma Baptist, and Oklahoma Christian. Wealthy white Baptists are the majority at OK State. (Perhaps this indicates that Derick is still a virgin and was Pistol Pete in name and costume only!)

[Toothfairy]

I agree that having been free (i.e. without constant accountability partners and parental censorship) on a large public university campus for four years, Derick is likely more 'worldly' than the world-travelin' Duggars or any of our fave fundie families' offspring, but in conservative Oklahoma, OK State is considered the state's most conservative public university and College Prowler lists it as 4th most conservative in Oklahoma, behind Oral Roberts, Oklahoma Baptist, and Oklahoma Christian. Wealthy white Baptists are the majority at OK State. (Perhaps this indicates that Derick is still a virgin and was Pistol Pete in name and costume only!)

And he probably read and learned about biology and human sexuality while in college. I feel bad for Jessa. At least Jill has a guy with a real education and knows about the real world. Ben is just a baby.

[lascuba]

Hmm, while I've never dealt with a fundie, I've met/experienced/heard tales of young, white, Christian conservative men, and that lot can be downright freaky. I wouldn't assume anything because he went to a conservative school...there's no end to the things a horny man will justify.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Hmm, while I've never dealt with a fundie, I've met/experienced/heard tales of young, white, Christian conservative men, and that lot can be downright freaky. I wouldn't assume anything because he went to a conservative school...there's no end to the things a horny man will justify.

My two most sex crazed exes were really conservative Christians, so I have to second that. And, I'm not even going to mention what happened at the week long overnight bible camps I went to in high school.

[sophrosyne]

Hmm, while I've never dealt with a fundie, I've met/experienced/heard tales of young, white, Christian conservative men, and that lot can be downright freaky. I wouldn't assume anything because he went to a conservative school...there's no end to the things a horny man will justify.

Yes, indeed. As Bill Gothard, Dougie Phillips, Ted Haggard, et al, et al, et al exemplify and affirm!

[sophrosyne]

My two most sex crazed exes were really conservative Christians, so I have to second that. And, I'm not even going to mention what happened at the week long overnight bible camps I went to in high school.

Bible thumping and Bible humping, right?

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Bible thumping and Bible humping, right?

Haha I'm pretty sure that some of the stuff that was done at bible camp wasn't a bible approved method of humping =p

[neuroticcat]

I think they will publicly toe the line, especially if they stay in the states. As long as the show is on, I think the older kids will follow the family code at least for the cameras. Maybe if they went overseas J&D would evolve, but I don't think so. I know that Derick went to a normal university, but there are plenty of very conservative Christians on college campuses, and they can stay connected in college clubs. I doubt anyone who wasn't fundie-approved would have passed Jim Bob's test.

I also don't see why they will necessarily wait on Jessa's wedding, except for the show's schedule. Josh and Anna married young, and they were fine with him in the rental house and on the car lot. I see how they could be more selective with their girls, but I also think their character-principles make them see that young marriage to a godly spouse equals what they've raised their kids to do. A reign them in while you can sort of thing.

[sunshine]

I did see a picture of Derrick in Nepal and in it, it looked like he may have been sharing an adult beverage with a native.

If I were a praying person, I would be praying that Derrick will not turn out to be another John Schrader.

In some villages, drinking with someone is usually out of respect and to gain trust with the people. I am sure Derick is not drinking to drink.

[HereticHick]

"OK State is considered the state's most conservative public university and College Prowler lists it as 4th most conservative in Oklahoma, behind Oral Roberts, Oklahoma Baptist, and Oklahoma Christian. Wealthy white Baptists are the majority at OK State. "

I will alert all my parents/cousins/uncles/aunts who went to Oklahoma State and turned out to be Democrats, lesbians, liberal Methodists, tattooed, agnostics or plain old atheists that apparently they missed a crucial memo.

But we aren't wealthy, white (hello, there are some Native Americans in Oklahoma) or Baptists so I guess we don't fit the stereotype. Oklahoma State does have an undergrad population of about 18,000 I believe.

[formergothardite]

I'm sure she is having private conversations now that she is engaged. When Josh got engaged to Anna, he bought her a cellphone for private conversations.

Yeah, but she got engaged to someone who she has never had a private conversation with. Breaking an engagement is a huge deal, even in the non-fundie world. Do you really think it is a wise idea to get engaged to someone you have never had a private conversation with? This is one of the numerous problems with fundie courtship that fundies never want to address.

[sunshine]

Yeah, but she got engaged to someone who she has never had a private conversation with. Breaking an engagement is a huge deal, even in the non-fundie world. Do you really think it is a wise idea to get engaged to someone you have never had a private conversation with? This is one of the numerous problems with fundie courtship that fundies never want to address.

I really don't think that is a big deal about people not having a private conversation when they are beginning a relationship. I do believe that people get lost in their love bubble where they tune everyone else out. However, I don't know what actually occurred with J&D. They do seem to get lost in their love bubble from time to time. :)

[Rescinded and Mended]

Eh, I don't think the Duggar parents really care as much about what the boys are up to. I've always had this bizarre image in my head of the girls being microchipped. Anytime a Duggar daughter strays too far afield without an accountability partner or with a boy, an alarm goes off at the Tinker Toy House similar Dot's Virgin Alarm in Spaceballs.

[formergothardite]

I really don't think that is a big deal about people not having a private conversation when they are beginning a relationship. I do believe that people get lost in their love bubble where they tune everyone else out. However, I don't know what actually occurred with J&D. They do seem to get lost in their love bubble from time to time. :)

But there is a huge difference between a beginning of a relationship and engaged, isn't there? Why would it be a good idea to get engaged before you have had a private conversation with someone? You can't actually know a person if all your conversations have been heavily chaperoned. And then if you wait till after you are engaged to marry them there is a hell of a lot of pressure(even in the secular world) to not cancel the marriage. In the fundie world there is even more pressure to stay the course and get married.

I've just seen way too many courtships end with marriages where the people find out they never knew each other and they don't actually like each other. But by that point it is even harder to get divorced. And this is something that the courtship fans don't want to discuss. And if they do they usually end up blaming the couple, not the courtship system.

Honestly, getting lost in a love bubble is a good reason to encourage dating without the pressure of marriage. That way a person learns to get past the "love bubble" and to discover what THEY want in a spouse, not what their parents, religion or in the Duggar case, ATI says they want in a spouse. They learn what they like and don't like, they learn that things they thought they liked it ended up they didn't really like, but with courtship they never get this. They get to marry a person they barely know all while barely knowing what they really want in a spouse.

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

I definitely think Jill and Derick will remain conservative Christian, however I could see Jill having a different approach to religion/spirituality than her parents. Jichelle and Boob are all about fame and telling others how great they are at managing their godly families (I thought pride was a sin?), whereas I could see Jill and Derrick being more genuine, charitable and altruistic. I really hope these two get to travel and do some missionary work together before Jill is saddled with a million kids.

[Aggie2145]

"OK State is considered the state's most conservative public university and College Prowler lists it as 4th most conservative in Oklahoma, behind Oral Roberts, Oklahoma Baptist, and Oklahoma Christian. Wealthy white Baptists are the majority at OK State. "

I will alert all my parents/cousins/uncles/aunts who went to Oklahoma State and turned out to be Democrats, lesbians, liberal Methodists, tattooed, agnostics or plain old atheists that apparently they missed a crucial memo.

But we aren't wealthy, white (hello, there are some Native Americans in Oklahoma) or Baptists so I guess we don't fit the stereotype. Oklahoma State does have an undergrad population of about 18,000 I believe.

This. I attended two Big 12 universities and tailgated with OK State fans in Stillwater, trust me when I say they there is a large percentage of students who are not strict Baptists. (There was plenty of drinking and dancing on campus to prove it.) While I would agree that they are conservative, it is more of a NRA, states' rights conservatism than a strict, modest conservatism.

[Lillybee]

Mullet said that Derick was in Nepal doing humanitarian work and didn't say anything about mission work, I wonder what that was about.

[Georgiana]

Mullet said that Derick was in Nepal doing humanitarian work and didn't say anything about mission work, I wonder what that was about.

Some Churches lump all aid work to foreign countries as "mission", while some use "mission" to describe specifically evangelizing/church building work and "humanitarian" to describe work that is actually useful....I mean aid that is non-spiritual such as building houses/wells/schools etc.

Also, Derrick could be working through a non-Church affiliated group, making his work not technically a mission.

[neuroticcat]

Mullet said that Derick was in Nepal doing humanitarian work and didn't say anything about mission work, I wonder what that was about.

I think it's better PR for mainstream viewers to say "humanitarian" work rather than missionary. Also, depending on what kind of visa he used to get into the country, he may not be allowed to call himself a missionary if he wants to go back. Many countries will allow in humanitarian workers but not missionaries who are prosyletizing

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I think it's better PR for mainstream viewers to say "humanitarian" work rather than missionary. Also, depending on what kind of visa he used to get into the country, he may not be allowed to call himself a missionary if he wants to go back. Many countries will allow in humanitarian workers but not missionaries who are prosyletizing

Trust me, if he was doing true missionary work, she would have said so. The Duggars have NEVER been ones to pass up the opportunity to talk about missionary work. Heck, they've said in interviews that their show is a ministry.

A quick google search will show that people have no problem calling their organizations in Nepal "missions" and their workers "missionaries." So, I truly doubt that it's a legality issue.

Rather, I think that he truly was doing humanitarian work rather than acting as a true missionary. I have MANY friends who go perform humanitarian work through Christian organizations overseas without ever preaching the bible to those they work with. I dont see why one wouldn't believe he could do the same.

[lascuba]

Some Churches lump all aid work to foreign countries as "mission", while some use "mission" to describe specifically evangelizing/church building work and "humanitarian" to describe work that is actually useful....I mean aid that is non-spiritual such as building houses/wells/schools etc.

Also, Derrick could be working through a non-Church affiliated group, making his work not technically a mission.

:lol: I love you! I'm strongly anti-missionary which is why I can't jump on the "Jill is so great!" team. There's a lot of humanitarian work that is suspect, of course, but with missionaries their primary goal is evangelizing. Fuck them.

[acat7]

:lol: I love you! I'm strongly anti-missionary which is why I can't jump on the "Jill is so great!" team. There's a lot of humanitarian work that is suspect, of course, but with missionaries their primary goal is evangelizing. Fuck them.

oh yes I know this all too well. Once in high school, I excitedly told a very evangelical/mega church going, fundie lite friend how awesome my mission trip to DC was.

I was super confused when she promptly asked me how many souls were saved for Jesus. I explained to her that our mission trip was spent working in homeless shelters and that we just talked to the people about whatever they wanted to share with us, and she told me that 1. That isn't a mission trip and 2. I'm a horrible person because i don't care about other people and their eternal well-being

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

oh yes I know this all too well. Once in high school, I excitedly told a very evangelical/mega church going, fundie lite friend how awesome my mission trip to DC was.

I was super confused when she promptly asked me how many souls were saved for Jesus. I explained to her that our mission trip was spent working in homeless shelters and that we just talked to the people about whatever they wanted to share with us, and she told me that 1. That isn't a mission trip and 2. I'm a horrible person because i don't care about other people and their eternal well-being

Oh god that reminds me. There this guy that was raising money in (I think) Monterey, CA, and until he reached his goal, he was going to "live like a homeless man" (he planned to spend every night in a shelter, taking room away from those who actually NEED the service, and such like that; though his super rich parents were going to be there just in case). His plan with the money he raised was NOT to provide any real service to the homeless, but to buy them bibles. And a donation of $20 would supply ONE bible.

When I attacked his goals via my Facebook status for being anything but helpful, my cousin decided to argue that a persons spiritual needs are more important than his physical needs. My friend (a baptist preachers son) and I spent the next few hours trying to prove (using psychology and the bible) that that doesn't even make sense.

I'll never understand people who think "Christ like" means throwing the bible in people's faces. Jesus inspired people to follow him by actions rather than words, saving the words for his followers, not those he was helping. These types of Evangelical Christians are pretty much modern day Pharisees.

Edited to try to avoid hate posts from people who consider themselves evangelical but aren't rude/don't force their religion on others.

[Toothfairy]

Off topic, but got my wondering. What if Jill and Derrick or other fundies have "problems" like being allergic to sperm or vaginismus? Would they know what to do? Would they go to a doctor to get checked? Use condoms?

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Off topic, but got my wondering. What if Jill and Derrick or other fundies have "problems" like being allergic to sperm or vaginismus? Would they know what to do? Would they go to a doctor to get checked? Use condoms?

Allergic to sperm? Is that really a thing? Like is there really a protein in sperm that could be an allergen?