New Maxwell book: Debt-free homes!

[Myfanwy]

With the bare minimum of payments - rent + student loans + insurance + gas + groceries, it will take me 83 years to save up to buy a house in my neighborhood in cash. That's not counting the fact that if I need a new car (I will) and without my gym/spa membership which I am hesitant to give up, and no new clothes, electronics, netflix, and downgrading my phone. If I moved back in with my parents, 4,000 miles away, I wouldn't make as much money, but if I managed to downgrade to a Planet Fitness membership, only drive their car, eat their food, never go out or buy new clothes or spend money on race fees or sporting equipment, I might be able to buy a house in their area in a couple of years, provided that Detroit doesn't change for the better. However, what is the point of living if you don't enjoy it?

Enjoying life!! :lol: Oh you are a funny one. That is not Maxwelly/godly. What is this enjoyment of which you speak? Enjoying life is no way to heaven.

Of course Steven's way isn't going to work for most people. That is because everyone else is doin' it all wrong, and not; most assuredly not because it is impractical in the real world.

[anjulibai]

The finally posted the story of the young man. All I can say is, what the fuck, do they really expect us to believe this crap?

[freejugar]

who hires 10 year olds to play at their weddings?

[anjulibai]

Right? And why would someone let some random kid keep a couple of cows on her property?

[anjulibai]

You know, even assuming this is all true, do they really think doing this stuff is realistic for a large number of people in this day and age? I mean, honestly, bee-keeping and selling milk? And is real estate really "godly"? Most of that kids clients will be putting themselves in debt - why is it okay to abet putting people in debt? Plus, real estate is notoriously fickle, and the deals they mention are rare in a lot of areas, even in depressed markets.

All of this assumes a rural area. Denver my ass.

I still want to know how one could become a doctor or engineer or lawyer and be debt free.

[YPestis]

What I want to know is how to buy your SECOND house debt free! You know, now that you have a wife and 10 kids to support, and since you lack an education, your ability to move up in income is probably limited.

Because so far, all I've seen on that is "make illegal additions to the house" or "get someone to give it to us".

Never thought about that, but that's actually an important issue for quiverful families. Not everyone can do a Duggar and stick 14 kids into a three bedroom, 2 baths. Even most fundie families desire more space than that. The Maxwells' success story, as illustrated in their new book, offers no answers on increasing income potential. Sure, school is expensive and working for others can be a difficult, but the secular path also offers income growth. Fundie homeschoolers are restricted by lack of education and push for large families. Many successful individuals today delay family to acquire education and/or to grow in their jobs. Fundie men are at a disadvantage as they struggle to provide for a growing family and a growing business, all the while handicapped by a lack of education.

A college grad working for a firm may start out modestly, not much more than a "well prepared" homeschooled high school graduate with a business. However, give it a 10 years and the person in the secular firm may double his salary, with benefits and potential for more growth. It's hard to say with the young man who has self-taught computer skills. He may strike it gold with his business or it may go bust. However, if he fails in his business and bankrupts himself, what does he have to fall back on? That's the real issue.

I have great respect for self-starting entrepreneurs. But I would argue that's only one type of job. Many people don't have a head for business. And those that do may still strike out in business. If you only train your son to run a small business, they may never find financial solvency.

What's more, not everyone will live in the ideal circumstances that allows them to save for a debt-free home. Some live in expensive parts of the country. Others may lose their money in a business venture and have to start over again. And again. And again. Business is fickle like that.

Then, if the young man is successful and gets a debt-free house and a fertile bride....well, he now has to work even harder to start saving up for a larger house or an expansion. All that costs money. And now it's money that's spread thinly around a growing family.

Plus, it's easy to see why Steve doesn't need to worry about upgrading to a larger home. He only has two new married children. One has a limited family due to fertility issues, the other is just starting out. Steve's grand plan of debt-free living may be strained if Christopher's wife starts popping out babies every other year.

No, I think most fundies who read his book will realize Steve's solutions can only apply in specific circumstances, with expectations that the young man turn a profitable venture within a few years. I think even fundie families realize that can be quite a stretch. Furthermore, all of Steve's children work for the family business. I'm not sure he can tout his own children as success stories. No, I think this book will only remind people that the Maxwells live in their own little world.

[Lillybee]

I am calling bullshit on that story. There is way too much regulation on selling milk from both cows and goats to make selling that much milk feasible. Is Steve suggesting that young men ignore government regulations to make their money? Plus there is the question that one needs a bull and a billy to get the cows and goats pregnant so that they will keep on producing the milk. I am surprised that this tale didn't include having the young man making cheese from the excess milk.

[Justme]

My Father was a dairy farmer for many, many years. The regulations to sell Grade A (drinkable) milk were intense! Basically, everything from the milking process on had to be sterilized at all times. Plus, the equipment required costs hundred's of thousands of dollars.

That boy would not have been legally able to use his hands to squeeze the milk from the teets and sell it as drinkable. Milking that was is very inefficient. The milk has to be pasteurized. Drinking unpasteurized milk tastes nothing like what you buy in the store, plus it's not safe.

There are more holes in that story than swiss cheese!! I think someone was f**king with their minds!! :whistle: :nenner: (And that's not hard to do!)

One more thought, milk cows often kick when their teets are full. (They want to be milked. It's like when you or I want to take a pee. ;) ) They also often take a dump or pee during the process. When proper equipment is used, it's hooked to the cow and the milk goes directly into long tubing into another location. Their poo/pee won't be able to come in contact with the milk. Not so much with a bucket and your hands.

[Arete]

100 hand milked gallons a week on a small flock and you are doing this in between school? Bullshit! Same with being able to produce the amount of honey claimed on a suburban backyard of an acre.

It would take my grandmother hours a day to keep up with 3 milk goats giving the family a few liters a day for the human kids and the cooking. She needed to keep boy goats in the flock in addition to the milkers just to keep production going. If she had had no children or grandchildren that needed the milk, she might have been able to sell 4 liters a day on this small flock. This would not have brought in the equivalent of 10,000 USD a year at today's prices. It would have earned her about 800 under the table and very illegal dollars if she could have found enough people to buy unpasturized milk. Pasteurization would be even MORE time a student does not have. She did make cheese and use it to barter with the neighbors, but gramps still had to work for another human being to earn money.

Steve, you are an IDIOT. You clearly have been LIED to. This little story makes no sense to at least three of us on this thread who have some cursory familiarity with keeping bees, goats, and cows. You can't get housing down payments with the numbers of livestock mentioned, you can't get the output with the inputs of land and time in this little fairy tale.

Face palm.

[anjulibai]

I'm sure they are going to get called to give specifics on how this kid supposedly did all this. I doubt they will answer. Either that, or they will say, read the book....which also won't have any answers.

[ThatSnark]

More BS: if little Eric started the cello at age 6, he would have had to start on a miniaturized instrument. I understand they make 1/8, 1/4, and 1/2 scale sizes for children to learn on as they grow into the full-size cello. Even rented, they're not inexpensive. His parents had to be shelling out some money for these instruments and lessons.

They shut a dairy operation near my house down recently for illegally peddling unpasteurized milk. People were turning up with a "stomach virus" that certainly was not a stomach virus, and they all had in common buying milk at the back door of this dairy. Someone's toddler had to go on dialysis while he got rid of the organism that was shutting down his system--- so Eric, it's very irresponsible to sell this milk to people. Blood money for this house, Eric.

And there's certainly nothing wrong with buying a house as a short sale/foreclosure, but it's not very nice to dance on the misfortunes of others. The Maxwells have God getting the glory in that paragraph; no need to pray for the family who was put out of their house so that Eric could waltz in with his cellos and ill-gotten milk cash to buy it out from under them.

No comments published yet regarding Eric's remarkable rise to fortune. Hmm. :think:

[Dru]

That story seems familiar to me for some reason. At least the beekeeping and cow portion. :think: I'm going to have to do some digging when I have more time.

[sparkles]

I'm sure they are going to get called to give specifics on how this kid supposedly did all this. I doubt they will answer. Either that, or they will say, read the book....which also won't have any answers.

They never, EVER give specifics, in their books, their blog or their Corners. Just a lot of vague "real-life" examples that are so far from the norm that there's no way they can work for a general audience. If you can't duplicate these examples exactly, you'll never get the same results.

[bean]

Maybe this story was from the late 1800's (before pasteurization) and they just updated the dollar amounts for inflation and changed "farmhouse" to "townhome"? Something to think about.

[anjulibai]

Maybe this story was from the late 1800's (before pasteurization) and they just updated the dollar amounts for inflation and changed "farmhouse" to "townhome"? Something to think about.

Then they must have added the part about the real estate license, because I doubt that was a thing back then.

[anjulibai]

They never, EVER give specifics, in their books, their blog or their Corners. Just a lot of vague "real-life" examples that are so far from the norm that there's no way they can work for a general audience. If you can't duplicate these examples exactly, you'll never get the same results.

No, they don't every give specifics, not even when they are talking about themselves. The irony is, though, if they gave specifics, they'd probably have more buyers. It's the specifics people want and need.

I have a feeling this book will be a bigger bust than their conversationalists book.

[bean]

Then they must have added the part about the real estate license, because I doubt that was a thing back then.

Ha! True, true, and the part about living outside of the suburbs. There are as many holes in my theory as there are in the story. :)

[deborahlynn1979]

A 19 year old real estate agent? Please.

[SamuraiKatz]

Well, I'm disappointed.

Sarah said to watch for Monday's post about a young man that wasn't a Maxwell who had bought a house debt-free. Then there'd be a book coming.

Instead, we get them shilling for the Duggars.

Lying is a sin, Maxwells.

Maybe they are getting a lot of blowback?

[Coconut Flan]

If that fictitious over-worked child is their sterling example of how to buy a house debt free then it should scare off 99.9% of the potential buyers of the book.

[Georgiana]

Never thought about that, but that's actually an important issue for quiverful families. Not everyone can do a Duggar and stick 14 kids into a three bedroom, 2 baths. Even most fundie families desire more space than that. The Maxwells' success story, as illustrated in their new book, offers no answers on increasing income potential. Sure, school is expensive and working for others can be a difficult, but the secular path also offers income growth. Fundie homeschoolers are restricted by lack of education and push for large families. Many successful individuals today delay family to acquire education and/or to grow in their jobs. Fundie men are at a disadvantage as they struggle to provide for a growing family and a growing business, all the while handicapped by a lack of education.

A college grad working for a firm may start out modestly, not much more than a "well prepared" homeschooled high school graduate with a business. However, give it a 10 years and the person in the secular firm may double his salary, with benefits and potential for more growth. It's hard to say with the young man who has self-taught computer skills. He may strike it gold with his business or it may go bust. However, if he fails in his business and bankrupts himself, what does he have to fall back on? That's the real issue.

I have great respect for self-starting entrepreneurs. But I would argue that's only one type of job. Many people don't have a head for business. And those that do may still strike out in business. If you only train your son to run a small business, they may never find financial solvency.

What's more, not everyone will live in the ideal circumstances that allows them to save for a debt-free home. Some live in expensive parts of the country. Others may lose their money in a business venture and have to start over again. And again. And again. Business is fickle like that.

Then, if the young man is successful and gets a debt-free house and a fertile bride....well, he now has to work even harder to start saving up for a larger house or an expansion. All that costs money. And now it's money that's spread thinly around a growing family.

Plus, it's easy to see why Steve doesn't need to worry about upgrading to a larger home. He only has two new married children. One has a limited family due to fertility issues, the other is just starting out. Steve's grand plan of debt-free living may be strained if Christopher's wife starts popping out babies every other year.

No, I think most fundies who read his book will realize Steve's solutions can only apply in specific circumstances, with expectations that the young man turn a profitable venture within a few years. I think even fundie families realize that can be quite a stretch. Furthermore, all of Steve's children work for the family business. I'm not sure he can tout his own children as success stories. No, I think this book will only remind people that the Maxwells live in their own little world.

I think it's a huge hole in their plan.

Debt free is cool, but it means no credit.

No college education and working for a family business is great, but it means (generally) less upward mobility unless you are really willing to put in some serious hours.

Having as many kids as your wife can birth is your call, but it does mean that you have the expenses of those children and a greater chance of medical expenses from pregnancy/birth complications.

Put those together, it may be HYPOTHETICALLY possible to buy a second home debt free, but it is not practically possible. The thought that you could save up enough money to buy a larger house with basically the same income and exponentially increasing expenses is inane. This doesn't even account for inflation.

Plus, while you and your lovely bride can move into a serious fixer-upper, doing it with small children is a whole different story. And since you will NEED the money from your first sale to finance the second, you won't have the option of living for an extended period in your first house while fixing the second. So you'll have to buy something that is at least mostly move-in ready. That means $$$.

So where does this leave us?

You can't buy a second home debt-free while living the "Maxwell Life". Heck, I'd say it's nearly impossible to do whilst being Quiverfull even if dad has a college degree.

Ergo, you will need a mortgage to buy a house to fit your (growing) family.

Unless you're accruing credit somewhere else, you will have a hard time (read: can't) getting a mortgage if you buy your first house debt free.

Unless someone dies and leaves you a house, you get on TV, or someone gives you a house as a gift...you're stuck.

Basically, this is a terrible plan. It looks good at first, but will end with a family being stuck in a 1200 sq ft house with 10+ children. Really, a much, MUCH better plan would be to save money, make a large down payment on a BIGGER house that you can fix up pre-children, and then have a smaller mortgage you can payoff in a few years (when the family is small) while your house is one you can live in comfortably for years (if not forever).

[Coconut Flan]

If I looked up the right houses, Nathan bought a 4 bedroom house (Stevie's old house?), and Christopher bought a five bedroom house. They should both be decently set up the size families that they'll have. Melanie may be pregnant with their last child unless she's very fertile.

[anjulibai]

I've very curious how large Nathan, Christopher and Joseph's houses are. Looking at Zillow, most of the houses around them are 3-4 bed, 2-3 bath, but most are between 1,000 and 2,000 sqft. That's not that much, really.

If Nathan had a 3 bedroom, that would be fine since his family is small. I doubt Melanie will have many more kids - she's 38 right? Say she has one more after this one before her fertile gives out. Then 3 bedrooms for a family of 7 isn't too bad; parents can have a room, then, depending on the gender of this next baby, could have 2 or 3 kids to a bedroom.

Christopher, however, might end up having issues with room in the future. I think Anna was only 24 when they got married, so that would make her about 27-28 now. If she has a baby every other year, they could wind up with 8-10 kids. That would be very difficult even in a 4 bedroom, ~1500 sqft house, assuming they don't add on.

I'm guessing Joseph will try to find a very young bride the next time around (less likely to bolt), so if he should marry a 19 year old, then he could wind up with kids into the teens. Even in a 4 bedroom, that would be hard.

That said, the Maxwells enjoy the luxury of free labor, so I'm guessing adding on won't be too hard of a problem for them. But very few of us have that luxury.

[anjulibai]

If I looked up the right houses, Nathan bought a 4 bedroom house (Stevie's old house?), and Christopher bought a five bedroom house. They should both be decently set up the size families that they'll have. Melanie may be pregnant with their last child unless she's very fertile.

Okay, I might have to change my analysis if this is correct. How did you know which houses they bought? I'm looking at Zillow and guessing the houses (there's only one 5 bedroom I can see, but a couple of 4 bedrooms).

You are right that they might do just fine with what they've got. If Christopher has 5 bedroom, and ends up with 10 kids, that could 2-3 kids to a bedroom, which isn't too bad.

Still, this is a rarity. I'm thinking about my mom's neighborhood. She lives in a house that had an extra bedroom and a family room added, making it 4 bedrooms, 2 baths. But, the original bedrooms in the house are small, as are the bathrooms. A family of 10 kids in houses like that would have a hard time.

[Georgiana]

Okay, I might have to change my analysis if this is correct. How did you know which houses they bought? I'm looking at Zillow and guessing the houses (there's only one 5 bedroom I can see, but a couple of 4 bedrooms).

You are right that they might do just fine with what they've got. If Christopher has 5 bedroom, and ends up with 10 kids, that could 2-3 kids to a bedroom, which isn't too bad.

Still, this is a rarity. I'm thinking about my mom's neighborhood. She lives in a house that had an extra bedroom and a family room added, making it 4 bedrooms, 2 baths. But, the original bedrooms in the house are small, as are the bathrooms. A family of 10 kids in houses like that would have a hard time.

Good point. Sq ft doesn't tell you about the layout of the house and how the space is divided up. A 1200 sq foot house could have smaller living areas but 3 good size bedrooms. Or it could have larger living areas and 2 small bedrooms. Similarly, bedroom count can be misleading. 5 "bedrooms" where only 1-3 are of a good size (often, office/den spaces get counted as bedrooms) or where the location of the bedroom makes them hard to use until kids are older may make the house seem more practical than it is. Meanwhile, a well proportioned 3 bedroom may be just fine.