Vision Forum Now Closing, Doug Phillips Still a Tool-Part 2

[Marian the Librarian]

Marian, I hope neither you nor anyone else thinks I'm denying it was abusive. The whole point of my post was to highlight the extreme power imbalance. But those in power often manipulate and use their "lessers" by convincing them that they see them as "family" or "dear friends." Does that mean they really do, though? Or are they simply lying to continue the exploitation?

No worries, DWT, I interpreted your post to mean you and I see the situation the same way.

Doug Phillips is a preening, lying, manipulative, strutting little banty rooster, and a textbook example of narcissistic personality disorder. And a tool.

[Clementine]

Marian, I hope neither you nor anyone else thinks I'm denying it was abusive. The whole point of my post was to highlight the extreme power imbalance. But those in power often manipulate and use their "lessers" by convincing them that they see them as "family" or "dear friends." Does that mean they really do, though? Or are they simply lying to continue the exploitation?

I think they think it's "safe" to abuse people who they have "below" them. I don't think that Doug would try anything with the daughter or wife of any of the VF royalties, like Kelly Bradrick because he know that if he gets caught, the family will raise hell.

A young daughter of a janitor from an ethic minority is another thing. Who would listen to her or believe her when it's her word against his? Even if he would get caught, Doug is probably so arrogant so he believes that the girl/young woman and her family are so unimportant that everybody will continue to support Doug and the victim and her family will be asked to leave the church and fade into oblivion.

[smittykins]

A young daughter of a janitor from an ethic minority is another thing. Who would listen to her or believe her when it's her word against his?

We still don't know(for sure)that it's her, though, right?

[Clementine]

We still don't know(for sure)that it's her, though, right?

She hasn't confirmed it and Doug hasn't confirmed it, so no, we don't know for sure.

[thoughtful]

Found this while playing around with searches:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/184 ... sor=213623

Apologies if it has been posted before.

A reminder of how Doug just blatantly acted like he was doing an important public service for which people should donate money.

How much real good could have been done with $69,000?

[WonderingInWA]

Found this while playing around with searches:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/184 ... sor=213623

Apologies if it has been posted before.

A reminder of how Doug just blatantly acted like he was doing an important public service for which people should donate money.

How much real good could have been done with $69,000?

Excellent find! You'll notice many award level prizes are some kind of gift signed by Doug Phillips! Such collector's items! I wonder if it's too late for me to get my hands on something like that? Bwah ha ha.

[mausi]

Excellent find! You'll notice many award level prizes are some kind of gift signed by Doug Phillips! Such collector's items! I wonder if it's too late for me to get my hands on something like that? Bwah ha ha.

One award even includes Doug calling you to thank you for your contribution. A phone call! My heavens, what a prize!

:doh:

[DomWackTroll]

Found this while playing around with searches:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/184 ... sor=213623

Apologies if it has been posted before.

A reminder of how Doug just blatantly acted like he was doing an important public service for which people should donate money.

How much real good could have been done with $69,000?

It's not like the poor need to be fed or something! Just remind them that "God will provide" for the umpteenth time. (Or, if you're too busy revising history, have Kim C. do it for you.)

[hoipolloi]

Speaking of Scotty, we need to repost the link to the account of his getting turfed out of his former church:

ephesians511.wordpress.com/legalism-exampleshistory-of-tbc/

An excerpt:

A (very) Brief History of Other Important Facts regarding Trinity Baptist Church

2001 - Scott Brown, Jason Dohm, Kenny G. and Pete S. ask for and receive the blessing of the pastor and elders at North Wake Baptist Church, Wake Forest to begin a new church.

2002 – Kenny G. and Pete S. resign as elders and state that the vision of Trinity Baptist Church is fatally flawed. New elders (Jerry and Don B.) are elected.

2004, the elders ask the congregation of TBC to approve compensation ($28,000 annualized salary) for Scott Brown as he does the majority of the teaching.

2005, Scott does not disclose to the congregation, or all the Deacons, that he is also being paid $53,089 by Vision Forum ($57,333 total in “Director’s Fees) for 30 hours of work per week ($10,519 more than President Doug Phillips, who only lists 25 hours/week).

2006, Scott again does not disclose to the congregation, or all the Deacons, that he is being paid $37,095 by Vision Forum ($41,596 total in Director’s Feesâ€) for 30 hours of work per week (again, 5 hours more per week than President Doug Phillips). At every point during the inquiries regarding the League of Grateful Sons statement and also during discussions over the concern that Vision Forum might be exerting undue influence on TBC, Scott denies any such influence or conflict of interest.

[Emphases added]

Hey Scotty - who's the apostate now?

[thekate]

Two quotes from Doug's blog regarding the young woman in question:

Photo caption:

And, Esq. on "Sending Daughters Away:"

I guess proximity didn't guarantee protection for this "daughter," did it, Dougie?? :evil:

Those who can't or won't acknowledge the incestuous, sexually abusive nature of the relationship between Doug and this young woman are being deliberately dense.

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

I don't think he ever really thought of her as family. It's all manipulation of 1) his image and 2) free labor.

[Dandruff]

The Tool brought some sin to his life

Which proceeded to give the Board strife

Once ministry holder

He became a foot soldier

And was briskly marched home to his wife

[lemonhead]

"MANY women revere(d) him. Many young and even married women revered him. To them he was an idyllic father/husband figure. For some women, it’s even easy to cross the line into sin of the heart."

God, this made me cringe. Maybe I'm projecting onto this young woman, but I know from growing up in a patriarchal environment how easy it is to fall in "love" with a strong and confident leader, especially if you don't have that kind of paternal figure at home and you're craving that kind of attention. If that were the case, it's a combination of her being extremely sheltered plus infatuation and idealization, and the leader knows exactly what is happening and how to take advantage of it. Of course, we don't know how the dynamics unfolded in this situation over time, but I can totally see something like that happening, and if so I believe he should still be held accountable for permitting and encouraging such hero worship to evolve into an "inappropriate physical component".

TL;DR: Doug Phillips is a

[bbfreethinker]

And yet she thinks she can be a ranch hand! I also found it very interesting that she said, "I don't want to be that guy who..." She is clearly rebelling against the ludicrous "gender norms" teachings of VF, and good for her.

Free the Coghlan girls!

[gardenvarietycitizen]

The fact that Doug calls her "sister" and "family member" and she looks like his daughters, dimples and all, makes this so incredibly creepy and semi-incestuous on top of everything else. If I was married to Doug, I would wonder if he has abused or tried to abuse his own kids. He clearly has no normal boundaries.

But also, if you look at it from the other side, from the woman's POV, if it's true that as Anonymous said she felt those people were like her own family, that's definitely a layer of creepiness too and as the younger, subordinate member (younger and "in service" whether paid OR not) then it would lead me to think that she wouldn't be the instigator of it.

Because usually "daughters" (note the quotes) don't go seducing their "fathers," it's the other way around.

I'd be more inclined to think it was a consensual fling if it were someone who did NOT initially know the Tool well. Saying "they were close like family" or "he was like the perfect father" to me makes it far LESS likely that she would be initiating any sexual type of relationship with him, because, eww.

Either way though, bottom line is in every way he had the power, and so feelings completely 100% aside, it's his responsibility (yes, responsibility) to not let any funny business happen. That's part of being in charge, being the boss, being the one with the power. Some things are off limits. Even in a secular office, you don't go having flings with your subordinates even IF they try to start it, because guess what, it will be YOU in violation.

[Aunt Bee]

I wouldn't worry too much about Perry C., there are many warehouses to manage. He could get a job, as long as his hands are clean. Of course probably wouldn't be able to take his kids to work.

Oh and while I'm here, I'll just say Doug phillips is a tool.

[Sobeknofret]

Perry Coughlin has skills which translate into the secular world- I'm way less concerned about him than some of the others who have *nothing* that will get them a decent job outside of ministry work. I'm also concerned about Joshua and Justice. They've got no marketable skills, and they've been discouraged from the usual paths to success most young people take- no college, no military, nor entrepreneurship that doesn't ride on the coat tails of their father's now disgraced ministry. They, and likely their other brothers, have been deliberately crippled by their parents, and now will have to pay the price. Their sisters definitely have been badly equipped for the real world, and all the Phillips' children have been sacrificed on the altar of their father's ambition.

[Dysfundamental]

One award even includes Doug calling you to thank you for your contribution. A phone call! My heavens, what a prize!

:doh:

Second prize, two phone calls from Doug Phillips (is a tool).

[theologygeek]

Hope they can get unemployment, but knowing Doug, VF probably considered itself a ministry and didn't pay into Unemployment Compensation. Oh well, there's always ebil Food Stamps.

He had no choice in the matter. It's the law. There's no reason why Perry wouldn't be able to collect.

[church_of_dog]

He had no choice in the matter. It's the law. There's no reason why Perry wouldn't be able to collect.

I applied for unemployment once in my life and my recent employer at that time (during the time period they asked about, I think it was three quarters previous) had been a non-profit organization who apparently didn't put in to unemployment compensation, because when I applied I was told "there's nothing in your account" so I couldn't collect.

[VVV]

I applied for unemployment once in my life and my recent employer at that time (during the time period they asked about, I think it was three quarters previous) had been a non-profit organization who apparently didn't put in to unemployment compensation, because when I applied I was told "there's nothing in your account" so I couldn't collect.

Texas law requires employers to pay unemployment taxes unless their employees are independent contractors, or the employees are paid through something called a Professional Employment Organization. Perry should be eligible for unemployment, though he will probably have to talk to a (gasp) woman in the process of getting it lined up. He will also be required to show proof that he is actively seeking employment.

[polabear]

I can say that a warehouse manager position at some places can earn you over 80k a year. That could go a long way for a family.

[Clementine]

But also, if you look at it from the other side, from the woman's POV, if it's true that as Anonymous said she felt those people were like her own family, that's definitely a layer of creepiness too and as the younger, subordinate member (younger and "in service" whether paid OR not) then it would lead me to think that she wouldn't be the instigator of it.

Because usually "daughters" (note the quotes) don't go seducing their "fathers," it's the other way around.

I'd be more inclined to think it was a consensual fling if it were someone who did NOT initially know the Tool well. Saying "they were close like family" or "he was like the perfect father" to me makes it far LESS likely that she would be initiating any sexual type of relationship with him, because, eww.

Either way though, bottom line is in every way he had the power, and so feelings completely 100% aside, it's his responsibility (yes, responsibility) to not let any funny business happen. That's part of being in charge, being the boss, being the one with the power. Some things are off limits. Even in a secular office, you don't go having flings with your subordinates even IF they try to start it, because guess what, it will be YOU in violation.

She was brought up in an environment where girls are taught to save themselves and kiss (!) their husbands for the first time at the altar. I don't believe for a minute that she took the first step.

The fact that she has been told to wait with kissing, be a virgin, men protecting the women's honor and the rest that Doug preaches and then the married, 20 year older leader starts to groom her... it must be confusing and scary and wrong on so many levels for her. I wonder what he told her to justify it.

[Clementine]

I looked at Ebay to see if Doug's followers of former followers are starting to dump their VF material. It looks like at least one seller is:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/integrityorgani ... pg=&_from=

(Link not broken since it's Ebay).

[LucySnowe]

I looked at Ebay to see if Doug's followers of former followers are starting to dump their VF material. It looks like at least one seller is:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/integrityorgani ... pg=&_from=

(Link not broken since it's Ebay).

Hahaha.

"Vision Forum's Family Strategies 20 Audio Messages Collection"

My suggestion for message one: don't shtup anyone you aren't married to.

[WonderingInWA]

Hahaha.

"Vision Forum's Family Strategies 20 Audio Messages Collection"

My suggestion for message one: don't shtup anyone you aren't married to.

I love how a couple of the items say "Get it while you can!". LOL. Collector's items, for sure! I wonder who the seller is?