Wisconsin pregnant woman is locked up to save her fetus

[Lillybee]

A Wisconsin woman is forced into live in drug rehab against her will.

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/ ... treatment/

[flubber]

What the fuck! I'm speeceless .... gobsmacked ... dumbfounded ...what the fuck

[lovemygsp]

Holy cow! If this law was cited correctly, they can basically do this to any woman who is suspected of being pregnant! :pink-shock: fantastic way to stop abortions... UGH!

"1997 Wisconsin law, which gives the state the power to forcibly detain any pregnant woman who “habitually lacks self-control†and poses a “substantial risk†to the health of an egg, embryo, or fetus."

[2xx1xy1JD]

Scary, horrific and absolutely counter-productive.

"Lacks self-control"? WTF is that supposed to mean?

Women who are more likely to put fetuses at risk because of their addictions are also the ones who are most likely to exist at the margins of society. When I was doing child protection work, it was quite common for some of these women to simply disappear off the map for a while. The first priority, then, if you want to help protect the babies, is to make sure that the mother is engaged with health care and social services. If women know that disclosing information will get them locked up, they won't give complete medical histories, and those with active substance abuse will hide their pregnancies and avoid getting any help altogether.

There's also the fact that the actual danger posed to fetuses doesn't neatly correspond to substances that are demonized by society.

Alcohol use is clearly linked to Fetal Alcohol Syndrome - and it is perfectly legal. It is also most harmful in the first trimester, which means that the damage may be done before the woman started to receive prenatal care or starts to look pregnant.

Other perfectly legal - and quite mundane - things can also pose risks to the fetus. Cleaning cat litter. Being around a child with chicken pox. Eating sushi, or any foods with a higher-than-average risk of listeria. Taking medication for rheumatoid arthritis. Using hot tubs. Where do you draw the line with intervention?

Finally, there's no evidence that these places are designed to be safe and appropriate for pregnant women. I know of 2 cases in my province where babies died after their mother's gave birth in prison.

[Lillybee]

The rehab that she is in does not provide medical or prenatal care.

[VolgarTheViking]

Holy cow! If this law was cited correctly, they can basically do this to any woman who is suspected of being pregnant! :pink-shock: fantastic way to stop abortions... UGH!

"1997 Wisconsin law, which gives the state the power to forcibly detain any pregnant woman who “habitually lacks self-control†and poses a “substantial risk†to the health of an egg, embryo, or fetus."

this is in every way horrifying

how is forcing someone to do such a thing like this even ethical?

of course they value a potential life much more than that poor woman who is alive and breathing already

[Effie]

The rehab that she is in does not provide medical or prenatal care.

Gaah. That's counterproductive if anything. So, what's the point to this? I don't get it.

[Black Aliss]

Meanwhile women who want to get clean when they discover they are pregnant typically can't get into a government-funded drug rehab facility for months, sometimes years. So if they don't have insurance or money, they're SOL. So if we really cared about the babies, wouldn't we want to first make sure that any pregnant woman, regardless of means, who wants to continue the pregnancy, could get admitted to an in-patient rehab facility the same day she finds out she's pregnant?

[twinmama]

They should probably wait and find out if that fetus is a lady fetus or a man fetus. Because if it's a lady, just get rid of both of them since no one gives a shit about her well-being either. Clearly.

[NurseNell]

Strange. I live in Wisconsin. Go into any bar in any small town here and you will see pregnant women drinking alcohol. I see pregnant women smoking outside the bars. And I've no doubt that there are pregnant women using other drugs. Who decides who gets rounded up and who doesn't? The women in this story doesn't even currently use pain killers, it makes no sense that she is being locked up. Pregnant women who do drink and use drugs need treatment, not being locked up.

[Miggy]

I use prescription medication which causes severe birth defects. Would I be locked up if I got pregnant? What would they do after locking me up; leave me on medication which causes birth defects or take me off it, allowing my medical condition to flare up which would kill the baby? Both options are worse than the likely outcomes for heroin babies.

[lilith]

This is the logical conclusion to endowing foetuses with rights that can supersede those of the women carrying them. It's horrifying, but it's the only direction laws can take once a woman's bodily autonomy is ruled to be qualified.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

Giving a fetus the status of Person with Rights guarantees this will happen. Now anybody who is interested can "speak" for the fetus and get the fetus a lawyer, thereby making the fetus more important than the woman. In the comments of the posted article the story of the woman in the hospital who was kept sedated and then given a caesarian section against her stated wishes even though it killed both her and the baby is more proof that fetuses are more important to pro-lifers than the pregnant woman. It takes a lot of resources to raise a person to adulthood and to throw all that away on a fetus is perverse and not in the best interests of society.

[2xx1xy1JD]

The Angela Carter case was absolutely horrifying. The hospital and the court killed her, pure and simple.

For anyone who doesn't know the case - Angela was 26 weeks pregnant, and dying of cancer. She wanted to continue the pregnancy until at least 28 weeks, when the baby would have a greater chance of survival. The hospital pushed for an earlier c-section. Neither she nor her next-of-kin consented, so the hospital went to court and got an order for her to have the surgery. Both the baby and Angela died during the surgery.

The Court of Appeal later overturned the lower court decision - but Angela and her baby were already dead and buried by then, killed by the so-called "pro-life" movement.

[Black Aliss]

They should probably wait and find out if that fetus is a lady fetus or a man fetus. Because if it's a lady, just get rid of both of them since no one gives a shit about her well-being either. Clearly.

Too bad they can't tell whether a fetus will grow up to be gay. I'm sure they'd be willing to make an exception.

[NurseNell]

The Angela Carter case was absolutely horrifying. The hospital and the court killed her, pure and simple.

For anyone who doesn't know the case - Angela was 26 weeks pregnant, and dying of cancer. She wanted to continue the pregnancy until at least 28 weeks, when the baby would have a greater chance of survival. The hospital pushed for an earlier c-section. Neither she nor her next-of-kin consented, so the hospital went to court and got an order for her to have the surgery. Both the baby and Angela died during the surgery.

The Court of Appeal later overturned the lower court decision - but Angela and her baby were already dead and buried by then, killed by the so-called "pro-life" movement.

I looked up the story on google. One medical report said she had melanoma but the court report said bone cancer. She'd first had it at age 13 and had a lot of surgeries and treatment over the years. At the time of her pregnancy she was 27 and had been cancer free for 3 years but then around the 2nd trimester developed mets to the lung. What a sad case. Had they followed her wishes perhaps her child would have survived and Angela could have met the baby. Very sad.

[Childless]

this is in every way horrifying

how is forcing someone to do such a thing like this even ethical?

of course they value a potential life much more than that poor woman who is alive and breathing already

Wait a minute. So, the state of Wisconsin can legally lock up a woman who poses a substantial risk to an egg? Wouldn't that be any woman who did anything? Are they going to start locking up all women now so as to prevent them from damaging unfertilized ova? Are we all going to be under house arrest and told what to eat and drink and what we can and cannot do? Remind me never to step foot in the state of Wisconsin.

[lilith]

Wait a minute. So, the state of Wisconsin can legally lock up a woman who poses a substantial risk to an egg? Wouldn't that be any woman who did anything? Are they going to start locking up all women now so as to prevent them from damaging unfertilized ova? Are we all going to be under house arrest and told what to eat and drink and what we can and cannot do? Remind me never to step foot in the state of Wisconsin.

Yep. Apparently women could theoretically be incarcerated to prevent them from damaging eggs that they have no intention of ever fertilising. Maybe while they're locked up their eggs can be harvested and given to women willing to fertilise them.

[sparkles]

So no woman in Wisconsin would ever be allowed to have her tubes tied then? THINK OF THE EGGS!

WTF?

[NurseNell]

Wait a minute. So, the state of Wisconsin can legally lock up a woman who poses a substantial risk to an egg? Wouldn't that be any woman who did anything? Are they going to start locking up all women now so as to prevent them from damaging unfertilized ova? Are we all going to be under house arrest and told what to eat and drink and what we can and cannot do? Remind me never to step foot in the state of Wisconsin.

Like I said earlier, I'm in WI. Go into any bar in the state, and we have LOTS, and you will find pregnant women drinking. So if they were really locking up such women the jails or wherever they imprison them, would be overflowing. Wisconsin does have a serious problem with alcohol. I live in a 4 block downtown area, there are a minimum of 2 bars on every block. Tonight is Friday night, the bars will be hopping. One is right across from me, I can expect a fight or two on the street. No one is stopping pregnant women who are drinking or drunk. There is probably more to the above story than is being told although it truly sounds like she was just reporting she used to use drugs but no longer does and some power hungry or misguided worker stepped over the line. I wish something could be done to convince pregnant women not to drink or do drugs. But locking them up isn't the answer.

[dairyfreelife]

All the :wtf: and creepiness has already been addressed, so I won't bother. Your reactions are the same as mine.

Alcohol is quite harmful to a developing fetus, that is well-known. FAS is awful and I obviously wish pregnant women wouldn't drink for fucks sake. Same with drugs and even with smoking-anything. But I am pro-choice, so if they didn't want it, they do not feel obligated to keep the pregnancy. However, I have witnessed many women who did want to be pregnant who still smoke, drink and do all sorts of shit that is bad for the fetus and some of them are well-educated women, which makes it even more :wtf: as why in the world would they do that when they know how bad it is.

Anyway, point is that people are going to do things they know they shouldn't do no matter what, so why even bother punishing pregnant women because something may harm the fetus. My meds MAY cause harm to the fetus, there's not much known about it in regards to fetal development, but it may cause more harm to me and the fetus if I don't take my medicine. Doctors are there to help women understand development and take the best approach to the health of both mother and the fetus so a healthy mother and a healthy baby will be the outcome if at all possible. The law needs to stay out of private health...that is all.

[Effie]

URGENT

This is about another pregnant woman (a teenager this time). I'm asking if you could possibly find if there's a petition for this one, because I would like to sign and pass it on: http://www.thedailybeast.com/witw/artic ... state.html

Maybe it's just U.S. citizens who can sign? I saw that there's a PDF document, which I guess you could sign and then send with snail mail (but that would take 3 weeks from here, and once again I don't know if my signature would qualify). I have a hard time concentrating on reading texts, especially English right now. I would be really glad if you have some more information about that petition, or if you could pass that petition on to U.S. citizens. I mean, this young girl belongs to a new generation where she has far less rights than her ancestors (mother, grandmother) had. That's an outrage. It's a new generation. And this is what they have to expect? Forced pregnancy?

By they way, could someone explain to me why countries where abortions used to be more acceptable and even legal, nowadays have changed direction completely? My mother could easily get an abortion in the 70s in Poland. I mean, easily! She even got one. It was legal & allowed on request. With the risk of coming across as paranoid, have the religious forces in U.S. something in common with other religious forces such as the ones in Poland? I know that the Catholic church has power in several parts of Europe, but not so much in U.S. You are free to ignore my incoherent rants here.

[Miggy]

This is already being discussed on another thread. There are a couple on online articles suggesting the girl has already gone out of state for her termination. Really hoping that is true.

[longskirtlotsakids]

No kidding. She can opt to have a termination until 22 weeks easily. Even though she is in rehab, she still is allowed to seek her own care.

[Peas n carrots]

So the fetus has its own attorney, but the woman doesn't? Fuck me, welcome to Gilead.

So why isn't the state of Wisconsin detaining all the menstruating women who are killing eggs and flushing them out of their bodies on a monthly basis? Serial killers!!!