What Ken Alexander's female associates should read:

[Koala]

This post (comments): lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/10/do-men-marry-just-for-sex.html

I am glad we can agree in principle on the premise of my post, and I am happy to respond to your “quibbles†and questions.

I am glad we can agree in principle on the premise of my post, and I am happy to respond to your “quibbles†and questions.

If the word “right†is defined as “morally good, justified, or acceptable†I am certainly correct to use the word, and if it is defined “a moral or legal entitlement to have or obtain something or to act in a certain way,†it goes to the heart of my post that most enter into marriage not only believing that sex in the marriage is their right, but also it is at the heart of most marriage vows. To “love, honor, cherish and obey†has very little meaning for a husband if his wife is not committed to meeting his sexual needs.

I believe that history overwhelmingly supports the male’s significantly stronger desire for legacy and success, conquering things and building things, than has been seen in females. Certainly one may argue lack of opportunity in history for females, or a new world of feminism that is growing up young ladies to want to play football, go to war and participate in conquering big things, but my experience is that the 80-20% rule applies as usual to this subject.

Women often do not have the strength of stamina, desire, will power to achieve what a man achieves in his lifetime when it comes to outside the family success. This in part has to do with the nurturing desires of many women, and their family orientation, preferring to be home with the kids and finding as much or more satisfaction in playing that role, than her husband finds in all his successes. Success is fleeting, but having four godly kids who all walk with Jesus is a far bigger accomplishment which Lori gets much credit for achieving, then my small business success. The same is true for many relationships where the man is highly successful, yet behind him is his necessary support system championed by his wife and kids.

Can a woman be highly successful? Nothing but a difference in testosterone levels can keep a woman from achieving the top of the top heights of worldly success… but it usually comes at a huge cost and sacrifice to her family. A sacrifice that many godly and ungodly women are unwilling to make because their role is just as important as or more important than the husband’s.

There is no separate instruction for male or female in “laying down one’s life†in the Bible, but how male and female are to accomplish a life of sacrifice is explicitly stated or implicitly implied in the scriptures. Lori’s writings have made it abundantly clear that most Christian women can and do live terrific lives of Christian sacrifice and service by taking care of their husbands and family. Their focus is inward to free up their spouse to go conquer the world and thus together they leave a family legacy. Both get credit for raising godly kids and both get credit for the accomplishments in the workplace and society.

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[lilwriter85]

I did some googling and Ken has another website for his business and there is a picture of front desk with two women. If those are Ken's employees, I feel sorry for them.

scheduling-orthodontics.com/index.html

Ken's other site

kenalexander.com/

Ken's female associates, female business clients, and even his male clients need to read Lori's entire blog. I can see many of the male clients being pissed at what Lori writes about working women. Orthodontics and dentistry are fields that depend quite a bit on predominately female support staffs.

I think Ken at the least has probably lost potential business due to Lori's blog. I do wonder if they had encountered problems with his current clients due to Lori's blog. Ken has posted quite a bit on the blog so he can't really push all the blame on Lori.

[tropaka]

Yeah, I wonder how many people he "consults" for know that he's a nut (or at least his wife is).

So, Ken and his son have degrees (accredited?) from Biola University....does anyone know about this college (whackadoo?). From their wiki page I scanned this

"On October 8, 2007, Biola opened the Charles L. Feinberg Center for Messianic Jewish Studies in Manhattan. The Center offers a Masters in Divinity in Messianic Jewish Studies. The program, which is in cooperation with Chosen People Ministries, focuses on the education and training of leaders in the Messianic Jewish community."

[lilwriter85]

Yeah, I wonder how many people he "consults" for know that he's a nut (or at least his wife is).

So, Ken and his son have degrees (accredited?) from Biola University....does anyone know about this college (whackadoo?). From their wiki page I scanned this

"On October 8, 2007, Biola opened the Charles L. Feinberg Center for Messianic Jewish Studies in Manhattan. The Center offers a Masters in Divinity in Messianic Jewish Studies. The program, which is in cooperation with Chosen People Ministries, focuses on the education and training of leaders in the Messianic Jewish community."

Ken has several clients that are close by to him and somewhere on the blog Lori said something about Cassi working at an orthdontic office. I'm assuming she was worked for one of Ken's clients. Ken's nearby clients likely know or have met Lori at least once. I also suspect Lori and Ken act differently in front of people at times. I think if Lori ranted about working women in a public setting there would be a huge mess.

The daughter Cassi also went to Biola for awhile, but left due to their costs. From what I can tell Biola seemes fundie lite. The school doesn't seem strict like Bob Jones or similar schools.

[shrillharpy]

"Biola is Sodom and Gomorrah compared to Bob Jones." --a quote from my fundie-lite youth.

[RachelB]

And at whose expense does a man's success come, Ken?

My grandfather was fiercely devoted to his work, and brilliant at it. But it's clear that his kids would have liked to see more of him when they were young. They weren't neglected, and they loved their mom-- they just also wanted to spend time with their dad.

It might not fit into your 1940s and '50s narrative, but it happened nonetheless.

[polecat]

"Biola is Sodom and Gomorrah compared to Bob Jones." --a quote from my fundie-lite youth.

This made me laugh because my parents firmly believed that BJU was little more than an orgy and liberal-compromiser school that allowed its students to use other versions of the Bible. Oh noez!

[linnea27]

Success is fleeting, but having four godly kids who all walk with Jesus is a far bigger accomplishment which Lori gets much credit for achieving, then my small business success. The same is true for many relationships where the man is highly successful, yet behind him is his necessary support system championed by his wife and kids.

Can a woman be highly successful? Nothing but a difference in testosterone levels can keep a woman from achieving the top of the top heights of worldly success… but it usually comes at a huge cost and sacrifice to her family. A sacrifice that many godly and ungodly women are unwilling to make because their role is just as important as or more important than the husband’s.

and this is what I do not get about the fundie helpmeet model. If it is god's wonderful design that men and women marry and have a gaggle of kids and raising the next generation to "walk with Jesus" is the most important thing EVAR and Ken's business success pales in comparison, then why the hell is LORI the "helpmeet" who must dedicate her time and efforts to helping Ken reach his "fleeting" success? It has always seemed to me that the man should be the helpmeet in this model, supporting the woman and children while she dedicates herself to the important task of breeding and raising children. (not that I necessarily agree with that either, but at least I could get my mind around that and it seems more consistent with the values of women staying home and having lots of kids, men working and providing for the family).

If Ken acknowledges that his successes pale in comparison to raising kids, then why would he want Lori to detract any of her time and effort from the kids to meet his selfish and comparably unimportant needs and goals?

[2xx1xy1JD]

His comments are seriously demeaning toward women - even Christian housewives.

No, Ken. It's not lack of testosterone that holds women back, nor is it lack of strength or willpower. It's not that women are less capable. Today, one of the biggest factors is that women are BUSY - they are more likely to have additional responsibilities at home.

Surely Ken could recognize that many women voluntarily give up or limit their careers outside the home, in order to fulfill responsibilities within it? Maybe he could acknowledge that no man with a family could do that much travel without a heavy-duty dose of support at home? That many working women with child care or older school-age children nevertheless need to do carpool and take kids to appointments, and deal with kids when they get sick and be available after school for homework help and run errands and do household stuff? Get off your high horse, be grateful for the extra work that so many women do, and don't pretend that you and your magic testosterone are so superior that women simply wouldn't be able to achieve the same things.

[fatcat]

and this is what I do not get about the fundie helpmeet model. If it is god's wonderful design that men and women marry and have a gaggle of kids and raising the next generation to "walk with Jesus" is the most important thing EVAR and Ken's business success pales in comparison, then why the hell is LORI the "helpmeet" who must dedicate her time and efforts to helping Ken reach his "fleeting" success? It has always seemed to me that the man should be the helpmeet in this model, supporting the woman and children while she dedicates herself to the important task of breeding and raising children. (not that I necessarily agree with that either, but at least I could get my mind around that and it seems more consistent with the values of women staying home and having lots of kids, men working and providing for the family).

If Ken acknowledges that his successes pale in comparison to raising kids, then why would he want Lori to detract any of her time and effort from the kids to meet his selfish and comparably unimportant needs and goals?

Because the egos of fundie men must be kept satisfied at all times :roll: I asked a similar question of my fundie friend once, actually. She told me that her mother spends all of her waking hours serving her father (and the rest of her family, but mostly her father). She said that to serve is the greatest calling anyone can have, because it is to be like Jesus. I asked that since her father spent far less time serving his family, wouldn't that make him less 'great', She said no, he's a man, that's not his role. I said that wasn't fair, she said 'it was never meant to be fair'.

I don't get it. Glad I'm not a fundie :shifty-kitty:

I should add that I am not trying to belittle my friend's mother (which is what she thought I was doing). She really works very hard. I just think it's tremendously unfair to be forced into this role because of one's gender, when the other partner is allowed to be a bit more selfish and can STILL be considered superior.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Will Lori's fans catch on to the fact that she and Ken are constantly stating something, then backtracking and denying it while continuing to say the exact same thing?

Ken's stated very clearly that he believes that men and their testosterone are naturally made to strive for success and building things in a way that women aren't, because they don't have the strength or stamina or willpower to succeed outside of the home. He and Lori also keep pointing out that men have apparently invented everything - which shows that they are reading more of Sunshine Mary than the Bible.

So when challenged on this, Lori denies that Ken suggested any of this - even though it's there in black and white. At the same time, she doubles down and repeats the inventions line.

Ken agrees that yes, women do sacrifice their time for the kids and husband - and then goes on to repeat the testosterone line. :angry-banghead:

Neither, of course, will consider that maybe, just maybe, we don't read more about women inventors historically between women weren't allowed to own property, and patents were considered to be intellectual property. Nor would they think that it's possible that women would have likely come up with tons of simple inventions and innovations in ancient times, but these simply wouldn't have been recorded to their credit. Nor do they acknowledge that there have been important discoveries and inventions by women in the past 100 years - despite the fact that many of these women faced overt discrimination and attempts to withhold recognition. Rosalind Franklin, for example, tends not to get the same credit and Watson and Crick for the discovery of the double-helix structure of DNA even though she did much of the pioneering work.

Then, we have Ken going on about how his legacy of his children is so much more important than his success at work. That's a great thing to say - but in the next paragraph he's bragging about doing all of this travel around the world and working so much overtime. Excuse me, but how exactly was he raising the kids when he was barely home? Lori was left to do it on her own. She's said herself on previous threads that she was exhausted with 4 kids in 6 years, her health wasn't great, and she wasn't a particularly happy person. These two will go on and on about how working women neglect their kids - even if that working supports the family - but somehow all of Ken's overtime and travel is supposed to make him father of the year? I also have to wonder WHY he was traveling abroad so much. Is there so much in the field of orthodontic practice management that can't be learned locally? Why would foreign languages be involved? I'm not buying it. If you ask my husband, he'll also tell you that the kids are #1 and more important than his practice. The difference is that he won't go on and on about how he's so success because he's a male. Instead, he'll acknowledge that while he works long hours sometimes, he also coaches the soccer team, takes our son to every hockey game and practice, spends Friday evening and Saturday with us with no phones or interruptions, attends every school event and teacher interview, spends a dedicated day with each child during the summer, and makes time for family vacations. Yes, he travels for work (and is at a conference now), but he discusses conferences as a family first, picking ones that are the least disruptive, and he tries to take us along to the ones that are family-friendly.

I basically think I'm annoyed because this post really isn't about "family values" at all. Ken gives a tiny bit of lip service, but shows that he really didn't value spending time with his family, nor does he truly recognize and value what women like Lori do for the family and how they contribute to their husband's careers.

[kpmom]

I basically think I'm annoyed because this post really isn't about "family values" at all. Ken gives a tiny bit of lip service, but shows that he really didn't value spending time with his family, nor does he truly recognize and value what women like Lori do for the family and how they contribute to their husband's careers.

Yeah, I got a very condescending, pat the little woman on the head, vibe from his post.