The Royal Baby Is Here! It's a BOY!

[OkToBeTakei]

I think Charles will abdicate, for the "good of the monarchy."

Let's assume Elizabeth lives/rules another 15 years. She's old and pretty boring. There are no shots of her riding horses on beaches, driving sexy cars, or even having the stamina to visit hospitals, schools, towns etc.

The monarchy is an outdated institution that relies on tourism and the fantasies of the world to survive. If she has 15 years and he has as short as 15 years the country is looking at an entire generation of royal snooze. In 30 years the public perception can easily turn, converting those palaces into condos.

William and Kate have the attention of the world. They're young, beautiful, and HAPPY. They look good touring the country shaking hands and smiling. They'll still be young and loved in 15 years. Not so much in 30.

Could not be more wrong. The very reason the monarchy has lasted so long IS because it is predictable and boring to some. It is a constant that most Brits are dually embarrassed and comforted by. Their longevity is precisely because they are NOT doing the things you mention. If they start then their demise will quickly follow.

The Diana thing seems to be more an issue for people who generally don't live here. If Diana had not died when she did and how she did I truly believe she would, have moved abroad. She was not as loved and popular latterly until her tragic death.

Every time the old chestnut comes up that the Queen is outdated or the monarchy is outdated, we have some sort of disaster and out pops Lizzie in her block heels and yellow coat, says the right thing. Then everybody loves her again. The monarchy after the Jubilee, which came as a huge surprise to just about everybody is more popular then ever, amongst those that like this thing.

I like the old bird. I hope she stays about a while. Much more preferable than young and beautiful and looking good.

ETA Listed buildings tend not to be turned in to condos :lol:

[fakepigtails73]

Exactly. Charles is not going to abdicate to please the notions of people who worship his dead ex-wife. The abdication crisis could have destroyed the monarch as Elizabeth II well knows and I'm sure has drilled into her children.

As to Diana, there is no way they would have remained married whether Camilla was in the picture or not. They were not compatible. And she had an airport carousel's worth of emotional baggage walking into that marriage. Not saying he was perfect, but the notion that she was is denial.

Exactly. She was young and naive and for sure was treated badly at times.

She also became a total master of manipulation which 'Diana' worshippers conveniently forget.

[OkToBeTakei]

Exactly. She was young and naive and for sure was treated badly at times.

She also became a total master of manipulation which 'Diana' worshippers conveniently forget.

Re: the quote I bolded in red...

Totally! She was a master manipulator and knew how to play the medias to a "T". Sadly these medias ended killing her. I have a feeling she was much, much more popular in the USA than in the UK, at least since their separation (in 1992, me thinks?)

I remember disliking the fact that she seemed to be BFF with Mother Theresa, of all people.

The one thing that endeared me to her in a little way was that she seemed to be a good mother; it could've also been just for show, but somehow I think she really loved her two sons and wanted the best for them. I say this as someone coming from a part of the world that has no love for the British monarchy.

[Scribber]

Could not be more wrong. The very reason the monarchy has lasted so long IS because it is predictable and boring to some. It is a constant that most Brits are dually embarrassed and comforted by. Their longevity is precisely because they are NOT doing the things you mention. If they start then their demise will quickly follow.

The Diana thing seems to be more an issue for people who generally don't live here. If Diana had not died when she did and how she did I truly believe she would, have moved abroad. She was not as loved and popular latterly until her tragic death.

Every time the old chestnut comes up that the Queen is outdated or the monarchy is outdated, we have some sort of disaster and out pops Lizzie in her block heels and yellow coat, says the right thing. Then everybody loves her again. The monarchy after the Jubilee, which came as a huge surprise to just about everybody is more popular then ever, amongst those that like this thing.

I like the old bird. I hope she stays about a while. Much more preferable than young and beautiful and looking good.

ETA Listed buildings tend not to be turned in to condos :lol:

Unfortunately, it's so many Americans who have no ties to the Monarchy who are the most passionate about Diana, about hating Charles, etc.

Clearly, the boys have forgiven Charles. (If there was any reason to forgive them - I think the realize how poor a fit their parents were.) They have accepted Camilla as their step-mother, at least publicly. (And who can blame them - their father, and sole remaining parent, is finally happy.)

As for the Monarchy being boring and outdated? Just peak at the Flickr Page!! I love watching what the Queen is up too - and it's far more on a daily basis than most of the general public, let alone her peers in age!

[laura oz]

I remember reading a book by her private secretary Patrick Jephson (sp?), and it seems even Mother Theresa was a bit hesitant toward Diana. Diana asked him to call MT about a charity thing or some kind of event where she could "help" MT out. She was politely rebuffed. I've always felt that Mother Theresa got kind of screwed cause she died the same weekend or shortly after Diana. Her well earned thunder was stolen, but I don't think she'd have wanted a big fuss anyway, cause she was Mother Theresa.

[formergothardite]

I remember reading a book by her private secretary Patrick Jephson (sp?), and it seems even Mother Theresa was a bit hesitant toward Diana. Diana asked him to call MT about a charity thing or some kind of event where she could "help" MT out. She was politely rebuffed. I've always felt that Mother Theresa got kind of screwed cause she died the same weekend or shortly after Diana. Her well earned thunder was stolen, but I don't think she'd have wanted a big fuss anyway, cause she was Mother Theresa.

I disagree that she earned any "thunder" she was a fairly horrible human. I don't like MT at all.

[lizziesmom]

I think Charles will abdicate, for the "good of the monarchy."

Let's assume Elizabeth lives/rules another 15 years. She's old and pretty boring. There are no shots of her riding horses on beaches, driving sexy cars, or even having the stamina to visit hospitals, schools, towns etc.

The monarchy is an outdated institution that relies on tourism and the fantasies of the world to survive. If she has 15 years and he has as short as 15 years the country is looking at an entire generation of royal snooze. In 30 years the public perception can easily turn, converting those palaces into condos.

William and Kate have the attention of the world. They're young, beautiful, and HAPPY. They look good touring the country shaking hands and smiling. They'll still be young and loved in 15 years. Not so much in 30.

I respectfully disagree with all of you who think Charles will abdicate. He wants to be king. He has been raised his entire life to be a monarch in waiting and he isn't going to give up his opportunity when it comes along. Now destiny may keep that from happening (Elizabeth outliving him) but he isn't going to voluntarily turn the job over to William.

[WonderingInWA]

I disagree that she earned any "thunder" she was a fairly horrible human. I don't like MT at all.

What specifically about MT did you not like?

[formergothardite]

What specifically about MT did you not like?

~She accepted money from and praised the Duvalier family, pretty horrible dictators in Haiti.

~She accepted money that was stolen from poor people, when the guy who stole the money was on trial she sent a letter to the judge saying what a nice person Charles Keating was, and when asked to return at least some of the money to the poor people it was stolen from she refused.

~She chained poor people to trees and beds so that they couldn't leave.

~She kept the people she was supposed to be helping in horrible conditions even though she had the money to improve conditions.

~She denied suffering people pain medication even though she could have easily gotten it.

~Most of the millions of dollars she received was not spent on helping the poor but on spreading the gospel.

~When she needed medical care she used the money to get herself the best doctors and the best hospitals.

[latraviata]

~She accepted money from and praised the Duvalier family, pretty horrible dictators in Haiti.

~She accepted money that was stolen from poor people, when the guy who stole the money was on trial she sent a letter to the judge saying what a nice person Charles Keating was, and when asked to return at least some of the money to the poor people it was stolen from she refused.

~She chained poor people to trees and beds so that they couldn't leave.

~She kept the people she was supposed to be helping in horrible conditions even though she had the money to improve conditions.

~She denied suffering people pain medication even though she could have easily gotten it.

~Most of the millions of dollars she received was not spent on helping the poor but on spreading the gospel.

~When she needed medical care she used the money to get herself the best doctors and the best hospitals.

Exactly!!

[WonderingInWA]

Exactly!!

I did not know.

[ADoyle90815]

I respectfully disagree with all of you who think Charles will abdicate. He wants to be king. He has been raised his entire life to be a monarch in waiting and he isn't going to give up his opportunity when it comes along. Now destiny may keep that from happening (Elizabeth outliving him) but he isn't going to voluntarily turn the job over to William.

I also don't think Charles will abdicate as he wants to be king, as that's what he's been waiting for. Now, it's possible that Elizabeth could live to be 100 which means that the reign for Charles will be relatively short in comparison, as that's what happened with Edward VII, Victoria's oldest son. He only lived another 10 years after his mom died.

As for Mother Theresa, she really was a horrible person.

[E Street Fan]

~She accepted money from and praised the Duvalier family, pretty horrible dictators in Haiti.

~She accepted money that was stolen from poor people, when the guy who stole the money was on trial she sent a letter to the judge saying what a nice person Charles Keating was, and when asked to return at least some of the money to the poor people it was stolen from she refused.

~She chained poor people to trees and beds so that they couldn't leave.

~She kept the people she was supposed to be helping in horrible conditions even though she had the money to improve conditions.

~She denied suffering people pain medication even though she could have easily gotten it.

~Most of the millions of dollars she received was not spent on helping the poor but on spreading the gospel.

~When she needed medical care she used the money to get herself the best doctors and the best hospitals.

Don't forget that she preached against birth control and other forms of family planning even though they could have greatly improved the lives of the people she professed to care so deeply about.

[RachelB]

~She accepted money from and praised the Duvalier family, pretty horrible dictators in Haiti.

~She accepted money that was stolen from poor people, when the guy who stole the money was on trial she sent a letter to the judge saying what a nice person Charles Keating was, and when asked to return at least some of the money to the poor people it was stolen from she refused.

~She chained poor people to trees and beds so that they couldn't leave.

~She kept the people she was supposed to be helping in horrible conditions even though she had the money to improve conditions.

~She denied suffering people pain medication even though she could have easily gotten it.

~Most of the millions of dollars she received was not spent on helping the poor but on spreading the gospel.

~When she needed medical care she used the money to get herself the best doctors and the best hospitals.

I can understand, as a coping strategy, believing that your own suffering must be redemptive or meaningful somehow, that experiencing will make you a more patient or compassionate person. But it wasn't right for her to make that decision on other people's behalf.

MT makes me deeply sad.

[FreeJosie]

Unfortunately, it's so many Americans who have no ties to the Monarchy who are the most passionate about Diana, about hating Charles, etc.

Clearly, the boys have forgiven Charles. (If there was any reason to forgive them - I think the realize how poor a fit their parents were.) They have accepted Camilla as their step-mother, at least publicly. (And who can blame them - their father, and sole remaining parent, is finally happy.)

As for the Monarchy being boring and outdated? Just peak at the Flickr Page!! I love watching what the Queen is up too - and it's far more on a daily basis than most of the general public, let alone her peers in age!

I agree...Diana was hugely popular over here and was on the cover of PEOPLE magazine all the time when I was a child/teen. I never hated Charles though. I always thought he got a raw deal in the press considering that Diana had affairs too. They were just a mismatch all around.

[kpmom]

All of that money donated to MT when she became famous could have really made a difference in her patient's lives. What a shame.

[singsingsing]

Just given his parents' lifespans already, and medical advances, I feel like Charles could easily live to be a hundred. I don't mind him at all and would have no problem with him being king (and I live in a Commonwealth country so technically he would be 'my' king). Or he could die before his mother. Anything's possible. I overheard some royal commentator saying that it could be forty years until William becomes King, or ten. All I could think was, well, I'm not sure Charles is going to get to 104, but I should hope he lives past 74 at least. :P Even Elizabeth could still be Queen in ten years. Her mother lived past 100. If you look at it that way, though, it's entirely possible that Elizabeth II could live to be 100, which would give her 13 more years. By that time Charles would be 77 and would likely have to rely on William to shoulder a lot of the royal duties anyway.

[Vex]

I just wanted to say, my cat's name is George.

It will be interesting to see what happens after Elizabeth passes (or is forced to abdicate because of illness). I do think Charles will rule, though. I'm in a commonwealth country, like singsingsing, and I don't mind him being king... although it'd be weird to see his face on our coins.

[Scribber]

I agree...Diana was hugely popular over here and was on the cover of PEOPLE magazine all the time when I was a child/teen. I never hated Charles though. I always thought he got a raw deal in the press considering that Diana had affairs too. They were just a mismatch all around.

You also have to keep in consideration that he originally wanted to marry Camilla - but the Queen refused, saying she wasn't good for the family. Then Diana was arranged for him - can you blame EITHER of them for not really working too hard at their marriage?

And Diana came into the marriage with loads of baggage and no help in how to deal with the life that she now had. No one EVER talks about how she was manipulative toward the media, and elsewhere. No one ever talks about HER affairs. (At least not in the USA...) It's all about "Celebrity" and not about how the monarchy actually works.

(Which again is why any offspring of William and Kate are VERY unlikely to have the "Spencer/Diana" tribute that so many Americans seem to be hoping for and angry that it wasn't done :cray-cray:

[tabitha2]

this is why I am so glad baby George was not a girl and why I actually hope they never have a girl...the press, really the American one, and many,many people would treat the little girl as a Diana reincarnation...every. damn. description, piece of news, factoid trait or choice would be compared to a long dead grandmother. it would just make the Diana mania all the more creepy.

[singsingsing]

I could see William wanting to honour his mother by using her name as a middle name for his daughter. I mean, she was his mother, and she did die tragically. But he may very well never have a daughter, and even if he does, just based on the names he gave his son he doesn't seem overly concerned about picking middle names to honour parents/grandparents. I can't see them using Spencer at all.

[lizziesmom]

I think it's more likely they'll name a future child after Kate's family rather than the Spencers. I don't think William and his Uncle Charles get on at all.

[already hungover]

What specifically about MT did you not like?

What I dislike about MT is that she thought that poverty was an ennobling experience and therefore didn't do anything to help poor people not be poor anymore.

Plus the Duvalier thing really sticks in my craw.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one. If I brought up my dislike of MT to anyone I know in real life (even my really liberal friends), I imagine they'd look at me like I'd just stomped on a kitten.

[CallmeChaCha]

What I dislike about MT is that she thought that poverty was an ennobling experience and therefore didn't do anything to help poor people not be poor anymore.

Plus the Duvalier thing really sticks in my craw.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one. If I brought up my dislike of MT to anyone I know in real life (even my really liberal friends), I imagine they'd look at me like I'd just stomped on a kitten.

That's because most people don't know what was really going on and they just see her as a super holy person who should be canonized (sp?). Ditto with Diana (on-topic). People just look at how the royals treated her poorly and how the paparazzi killed her, and then come all the "what-ifs" about how great she could've been at such-and-such.

So I really thought people here were kidding with the names they were guessing. I was really surprised that all three names had been guessed at one time or the other. I obviously don't know much about the tradition of the monarchy :lol:

[gezykah]

What I dislike about MT is that she thought that poverty was an ennobling experience and therefore didn't do anything to help poor people not be poor anymore.

Plus the Duvalier thing really sticks in my craw.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one. If I brought up my dislike of MT to anyone I know in real life (even my really liberal friends), I imagine they'd look at me like I'd just stomped on a kitten.

She also thought pain was an ennobling experience which explains the "quality" of care in the missions she started. While towards the end of her life she got good health care she had volunteers with little or no training doing things like washing and reusing needles and declining equipment that could help the people they claimed to be caring for.